Gas Boiler replacement.

Sleepy · 21-01-2019 11:08am #1

Murphy's Law being what it is, our gas boiler has just died on us and, pending confirmation from an RGI, I'm assuming it's going to need replacing.

The current model is a non-condensing Gloworm Micron that I'm guessing was installed in the mid 90's (as I know the house was extended back then). We've a total of 11 radiators coming off this (some quite small as the house is a 1930's terrace of about 100sqm).

We're currently on a dual fual bundle with Energia so I've contacted them, Electric Ireland and SSE Airtricity to arrange quotes but I suspect there's probably a premium attached to going with the big players?

I can find dozens of home heating companies on Google, all pushing particular makes and models of boiler etc. Are there any makes / models of boiler I should be looking to avoid (I've heard Gloworm slagged off on message boards before)?

Am I correct in my assumption that any quote for a boiler replacement will (should) include a power-flush and control upgrades (Climote etc.)?

Obviously it's time sensitive since we're having to rely on electric heaters in this weather but I'd like to be sure I'm not rushing my decision and ending up paying way over the odds! Any recommendations welcome!

Calahonda52 · 21-01-2019 1:33pm

Given the move away from FF and grants no longer available for gas boilers.....
You need to check the flow temp on the new boiler as it will be a condensing boiler and the normal delta T design with them is 50C, or less, as opposed to 60C for older boilers.
Result is 22.4% less heat

Sleepy · 21-01-2019 1:41pm

That's interesting. Is that adjustable? Is it an energy saving thing where running the heating for longer at a lower flow temperature is more economical (akin to underfloor heating)? Or is all the spiel about condensing boilers being so much more efficienct based on them running at lower temperatures and therefore being less effective?

I was assuming that replacing the boiler would lead to a warmer, cheaper to heat home rather than the opposite!

Calahonda52 · 21-01-2019 2:07pm

The condensing bit means that the flow return temps are set such that the return is c 45C or less, thereby condensing the steam in the flue, extracting energy there from [latent heat of vaporisation from Inter Cert Science 101 ]

This link gives you an idea
http://grantengineering.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/GRANT-Wall-hung-Indoor-Technical-Manual.pdf

It says return can be 55C, you need to check each supplier

I don't buy this piece
The Grant Condensing boiler will however still operate at extremely high efficiencies even when it is not in condensing mode and therefore is suitable for fitting to an existing heating system without alteration to the radiator sizes. The boiler is capable of a maximum flow temperature of 75°C

Normal rad design is 85 flow/75 return/average 80/room temp 20/ hence delta T is 60 [80 minus 20]

see quinn rad spec sheet attached

Sleepy · 21-01-2019 3:30pm

If anyone's had a similar unit replaced recently, I'd be curious to hear prices as well, it's difficult to judge just how much a "like for like" is going to cost... I'm also reading that condensor boilers need to be run off to a drain which I don't think is possible in the current boiler's location - inside a hot-press against the front wall of the house but there are no drainpipes on the front of the house and we'd be forbidden from adding one because we're in an ACA.

Prefect_1998 · 21-01-2019 3:34pm

Sleepy wrote: »

If anyone's had a similar unit replaced recently, I'd be curious to hear prices as well, it's difficult to judge just how much a "like for like" is going to cost... I'm also reading that condensor boilers need to be run off to a drain which I don't think is possible in the current boiler's location - inside a hot-press against the front wall of the house but there are no drainpipes on the front of the house and we'd be forbidden from adding one because we're in an ACA.

We just got a new boiler installed with the same issue for the condense pipe. We got a pump and fed it to the back of the house.

One issue you might have as we fo are is the gas feed from meter to boiler is too small and needs to be upgraded.

Idioteque · 21-01-2019 4:02pm

Hi,

Yes any new boiler being fitted should have a flush included before it's hooked up, then most now use a magnet filter to catch debris going forward.

You don't neccessarily new new controls, it made sense to get them (along with Zoning) when the SEAI grant was available as that was the criteria.

Veissmann are a good brand from the research I did.

From memory you're looking around €1100 for a new boiler fitted and it was up around the €1900 mark for zoning (spliiting hot water and rads) and controls - I went with the latter as the grant was around €750 so it made sense (exlcuding the new BER cert).

I got a few quotes and all plumbers said it wasn't always cost-effective to go the controls/zoning route, it depended on your set-up.

We have seen our gas bills go down a good bit (forget the actual % off the top of my head), the more efficient boiler and not having to use the immersion due to zoning and better timing made a big difference.

Prefect_1998 · 21-01-2019 4:07pm

Idioteque wrote: »

Hi,

Yes any new boiler being fitted should have a flush included before it's hooked up, then most now use a magnet filter to catch debris going forward.

You don't neccessarily new new controls, it made sense to get them (along with Zoning) when the SEAI grant was available as that was the criteria.

Veissmann are a good brand from the research I did.

From memory you're looking around €1100 for a new boiler fitted and it was up around the €1900 mark for zoning (spliiting hot water and rads) and controls - I went with the latter as the grant was around €750 so it made sense (exlcuding the new BER cert).

I got a few quotes and all plumbers said it wasn't always cost-effective to go the controls/zoning route, it depended on your set-up.

We have seen our gas bills go down a good bit (forget the actual % off the top of my head), the more efficient boiler and not having to use the immersion due to zoning and better timing made a big difference.

No chance of getting a veissman fitted for 1100

Sleepy · 21-01-2019 4:52pm

In terms of zoning etc. I'm not sure it makes much sense for us as it's a small house we already have a lever in the hot-press that switches the boiler to only heat the hot water tank instead of doing hot tank and rads". I would like to make the controls more sophisticated though: at present it's an old Siemens unit with on / off / timer (with 2 saveable times for on and off) and a boost function. It'd be nice to get it set to a smart thermostat and have remote control options via a phone app or similar for when we're out and about.

Idioteque · 21-01-2019 9:01pm

danielle_door wrote: »

No chance of getting a veissman fitted for 1100

I've just gone and dug out the original invoice and yes my memory was fuzzy

OP, The fully zoned price was €2800, I think the Boiler alone was around the €1800 - €2000 mark...

Sleepy · 21-01-2019 9:39pm

If you're happy to recommend the company you used I'd appreciate it if you could PM me their details.

JudyN · 21-02-2019 4:08pm

Not sure if you've already sorted this, but I've recently had my boiler replaced for 2200- very happy with installation and plumber if you'd like me to share his details

Calahonda52 · 21-02-2019 10:16pm

JudyN wrote: »

Not sure if you've already sorted this, but I've recently had my boiler replaced for 2200- very happy with installation and plumber if you'd like me to share his details

The plumber is not the issue here: what did you get replaced with what and what Delta T design was used with the original set up

Sleepy · 25-02-2019 11:56am

JudyN wrote: »

Not sure if you've already sorted this, but I've recently had my boiler replaced for 2200- very happy with installation and plumber if you'd like me to share his details

I got sorted for similar enough money in the end, thanks though!

Gas Boiler replacement.

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