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Ceiling disaster/House squareness

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  • 13-03-2019 2:59pm
    #1
    arsebiscuits82
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭


    Hi all,

    We are almost at the end of a new build and things are going a bit pear shaped for us. We have a vaulted ceiling which ties into a 10ft ceiling in a kitchen/dining/living room open plan area. The room measures circa 12m x 4.5m.

    The plastering is complete and I went to look it at it last week and noticed that one side of the vaulted ceiling ties in with the 10ft ceiling perfectly where the other side is 40mm low, leaving a step in what should be a straight line along the full length of the room.

    The builder, a very reputable one in the area, had a look yesterday and told me the wall plates weren't level and this caused the issue. The plaster is on to the correct thickness on the insulated slab which is tight to the rafters as it should be.

    They have suggested a cornice around the kitchen to tie in with the step, but this will leave a step on the other side. Anyways there is no way I'm putting cornices in the room as it would kill the look we want to achieve.

    I don't buy the wall plate being off as there is a steel ring beam around the top of the walls which went in level. So I took out my disto and measured the walls last night. There is 150mm in width of a difference between both ends of the room. I believe this widening of the blockwork has caused the ceiling issue as the slope length of the vault will increase as the block veers off line.

    Will this 150mm effect the look of the flooring once laid? Granted you can't see the error with the naked eye, due to the size of the room but am now concerned about the rest of the build and the flooring throughout.

    So essentially the room is nowhere near square and we're left with a disaster of a ceiling in the main room of the house. I can't get the site rep on the phone today at all and I keep missing the other guy in the office.

    Bar taking the bloody house down is there much that can be done? To say we are raging is an understatement.

    I would appreciate peoples thoughts and experiences on this.

    Thanks,


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    #2
    JimmyMW
    Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭JimmyMW


    arsebiscuits82 wrote: »
    Hi all,
    The plastering is complete and I went to look it at it last week and noticed that one side of the vaulted ceiling ties in with the 10ft ceiling perfectly where the other side is 40mm low, leaving a step in what should be a straight line along the full length of the room.

    Maybe drop the 10ft ceiling to 9ft (suspended ceiling) creating a step both sides, you might notice the difference in the steps less than one step on one side
    arsebiscuits82 wrote: »

    The builder, a very reputable one in the area, had a look yesterday and told me the wall plates weren't level and this caused the issue. The plaster is on to the correct thickness on the insulated slab which is tight to the rafters as it should be.

    Is this a contract job or direct labour? If contract then its the main contractors job to rectify the problem, if direct labour it would be the responsibility of the sub contractor to highlight any issues with the work which their works are based on, its not acceptable to carry on regardless.
    arsebiscuits82 wrote: »

    I don't buy the wall plate being off as there is a steel ring beam around the top of the walls which went in level. So I took out my disto and measured the walls last night. There is 150mm in width of a difference between both ends of the room. I believe this widening of the blockwork has caused the ceiling issue as the slope length of the vault will increase as the block veers off line.

    Would need to see some kinda drawing to determine the geometry of the room, however if it is the squareness of the wall causing the ceiling problem you could stud out the wall square and have it re-skimmed.
    arsebiscuits82 wrote: »

    Will this 150mm effect the look of the flooring once laid? Granted you can't see the error with the naked eye, due to the size of the room but am now concerned about the rest of the build and the flooring throughout.

    Absolutely, it will appear worse with different flooring, for example if square tiles are being laid against the wall it will obviously highlight the problem significantly when you will have 150mm more tile at one end, however if you were putting down timber flooring and ran it perpendicularly to the wall which is off square its not going to be as noticeable, assuming the other 3 walls are square. the least noticable will be a flooring without any pattern or a constant random pattern eg some linos, terrazzo etc

    Hope this helps


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    #3
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,217 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    As noted above its had to say where the error is.
    The room could be a trapezium or an oblong or even an off parallelogram.
    Dimensions without angles can be misleading.
    Is the wall vertical?

    The question I have is if the ring beam was fitted square and level, did the 150 not show at that stage?

    In terms of flooring, as above, however if tiling, who I have seen done is a diamond pattern with square tiles and a border.
    In any event, in a room of that size, the flooring needs to be set out from a line down the middle and not from any wall, its too big for that.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #4
    arsebiscuits82
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭arsebiscuits82


    JimmyMW wrote: »
    Maybe drop the 10ft ceiling to 9ft (suspended ceiling) creating a step both sides, you might notice the difference in the steps less than one step on one side



    Is this a contract job or direct labour? If contract then its the main contractors job to rectify the problem, if direct labour it would be the responsibility of the sub contractor to highlight any issues with the work which their works are based on, its not acceptable to carry on regardless.



    Would need to see some kinda drawing to determine the geometry of the room, however if it is the squareness of the wall causing the ceiling problem you could stud out the wall square and have it re-skimmed.



    Absolutely, it will appear worse with different flooring, for example if square tiles are being laid against the wall it will obviously highlight the problem significantly when you will have 150mm more tile at one end, however if you were putting down timber flooring and ran it perpendicularly to the wall which is off square its not going to be as noticeable, assuming the other 3 walls are square. the least noticable will be a flooring without any pattern or a constant random pattern eg some linos, terrazzo etc

    Hope this helps

    Thanks, it's a contract job. Though the work was sub contracted out from the main contractor. We had 3 different block crews on the job. The first for the deadwork, they got rid of the second one due to slow progress and the fact he was building it on his own with no helper/tenderer.

    I have a disto so will call out again this evening and do an as-built with diagonals which should help me see where it is out. Have CAD here at work so can strike some arcs etc to see what the hell is going on.
    Flooring is uniform throughout so hopefully it shouldn't be seen once laid


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    #5
    arsebiscuits82
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭arsebiscuits82


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    As noted above its had to say where the error is.
    The room could be a trapezium or an oblong or even an off parallelogram.
    Dimensions without angles can be misleading.
    Is the wall vertical?

    The question I have is if the ring beam was fitted square and level, did the 150 not show at that stage?

    In terms of flooring, as above, however if tiling, who I have seen done is a diamond pattern with square tiles and a border.
    In any event, in a room of that size, the flooring needs to be set out from a line down the middle and not from any wall, its too big for that.

    The beam doesn't go full length of the room, only the vault which is a portal frame. Wall seems vertical with the odd bit of daylight coming through on against a straight edge.


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    #6
    Doop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Doop


    Is there a design team? arch or PM? if so you shouldn't really have to chase around taking measurements to work out what happened. Point out the error and ask for solutions. Sounds like your Main Contractor is a bit blase about something you are not happy with.

    I certainly wouldn't be accepting a cornice as a solution!


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    #7
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Doop wrote: »
    Is there a design team? arch or PM? if so you shouldn't really have to chase around taking measurements to work out what happened. Point out the error and ask for solutions. Sounds like your Main Contractor is a bit blase about something you are not happy with.

    I certainly wouldn't be accepting a cornice as a solution!

    I agree. Get your architect to have a look. You have paid hard earned money for not a perfect job. There is something wrong. You should not gave to hide a mistake. Don't be robbed off.


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    #8
    arsebiscuits82
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭arsebiscuits82


    Update, as of today all is sorted. They slabbed out the room to make it square and it took the step out of the ceiling. The company owner met me last Saturday and we went through things, very impressed with how quick it was fixed once highlighted. As a bonus my room will be cosier with the additional insulation.


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