RTE announce multi million euro investment in Longwave transmissions

Bradford_Ire · 31-05-2021 2:13pm #1

RTE on longwaveradio will be off air for the entire summer as RTE are to replace all the Insulators on the masts staywires, this investment will insure that the mast will be fit for purpose for another 15 years. Well done to everyone who has worked hard to keep this important service going. Irish people in Britain 1 D4 libertarians Nil

TheBMG · 31-05-2021 4:31pm

Bradford_Ire wrote: »

RTE on longwaveradio will be off air for the entire summer as RTE are to replace all the Insulators on the masts staywires, this investment will insure that the mast will be fit for purpose for another 15 years. Well done to everyone who has worked hard to keep this important service going. Irish people in Britain 1 D4 libertarians Nil

Who in the name of jaysus will be listening to LW 15 years from now?!

Declan A Walsh · 31-05-2021 4:38pm

I suspect the OP's post is trolling. Apologies etc., if I am wrong!

Let us see how long the OP lasts before they close their account.

Declan A Walsh · 31-05-2021 5:02pm

Declan A Walsh wrote: »

I suspect the OP's post is trolling. Apologies etc., if I am wrong!

Let us see how long the OP lasts before they close their account.

And as if by magic....:D

L1011 · 01-06-2021 11:38am

Assuming that investment = continued use is a bad idea. RTE has Todd Andrews ghost over it, he of 'repaint all the train stations in West Cork the year before closing them' - it makes the costs seem far higher and can be used to justify closure.

Snickers Man · 01-06-2021 11:41am

L1011 wrote: »

Assuming that investment = continued use is a bad idea. RTE has Todd Andrews ghost over it, he of 'repaint all the train stations in West Cork the year before closing them' - it makes the costs seem far higher and can be used to justify closure.

And we all know of course, so I don't need to tell you, that Todd Andrews' Grandson is one Ryan Tubridy?

Not suggesting that Tubs has any hand act or part in strategic decisions of this nature but it's a small world.

Glaceon · 01-06-2021 12:10pm

This exact work was done on the Tullamore MW mast just a couple of years before it closed.

coylemj · 01-06-2021 2:18pm

Glaceon wrote: »

This exact work was done on the Tullamore MW mast just a couple of years before it closed.

+1 there was a major upgrade of the transmission equipment in Athlone in the early 1970s, a few years before the service was relocated to Tullamore.

L1011 · 01-06-2021 4:22pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

And we all know of course, so I don't need to tell you, that Todd Andrews' Grandson is one Ryan Tubridy?

Not suggesting that Tubs has any hand act or part in strategic decisions of this nature but it's a small world.

Tubbs very early appearances on TV as a book reviewer may have had something to do with his grandfather having been a former board member, of course.

Jonathan1990 · 03-06-2021 10:59pm

One problem you get at night is that Chaine 3 from Algeria takes over RTÉ Radio 1 on 252 LW a lot of the time.

JDxtra · 04-06-2021 7:59am

Hopefully not true as its a waste of money. Apart from a few die hard enthusiasts listening, there is no need for it. Plenty of other options available.

Bradford West Irish · 14-06-2021 11:18pm

Tomorrow is the day that the multi million euro investment begins on the Summerhill LW mast, this was officially announced by RTE last Friday lunchtime (see RTE press releases). Kudos to RTE for closing dead and buried DAB and investing in a proven technology that can be heard from Goleen to Glasgow

ITV2 · 15-06-2021 12:58pm

a waste of licence €€s, most new cars don't even have LW as most radios these days don't. Who will actually listen to it?

lertsnim · 15-06-2021 6:19pm

ITV2 wrote: »

a waste of licence €€s, most new cars don't even have LW as most radios these days don't. Who will actually listen to it?

People in Britain who wont be paying for it. RTÉ will be crying poverty again soon but can afford this.

SPDUB · 15-06-2021 7:39pm

ITV2 wrote: »

a waste of licence €€s, most new cars don't even have LW as most radios these days don't. Who will actually listen to it?

I do . if you are moving around it provides the most stable signal

turbocab · 15-06-2021 8:26pm

SPDUB wrote: »

I do . if you are moving around it provides the most stable signal

not in evenig when it gets hammered by Algeria on the same frequency with at least 10 times the power.Move it to 261 khz would be the best thing they could do.261 khz is a totally clear channel vacated by Germany many years ago never to be used by them again

Mickey Mike · 16-08-2021 7:00pm

Algerian Chane 3 on 252 have now ceased broadcasting, so RTE now have a clear signal on 252, still an all though I would not have spent a cent on upgrading this piece of crap, what a waste of money, just let it run away until it falls down, then end it.

lawred2 · 16-08-2021 7:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117431049#Comment_117431049

it truly does not

Antenna · 16-08-2021 8:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117763510#Comment_117763510

Is it (Algeria's 252 ) definitely gone for good??

It has been off-air for long spells (months) in the past, and returned

SPDUB · 16-08-2021 8:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117763532#Comment_117763532

Maybe not for you but it does for me

Mickey Mike · 16-08-2021 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117763824#Comment_117763824

After your post, I don't know, we'll wait and see.

16-08-2021 10:17pm

In my experience, the issue nowadays is, once you switch on everyday stuff in the house such as a phone charger, led light bulb or flat screen TV/set top box, Longwave becomes completely unusable, all you can hear on it is noise like a loud hairdryer if one or more of these items are on. We didn't have that issue back in the Atlantic 252 days when the boombox tuned to 252 was probably the biggest Modcon in the house

dxhound2005 · 17-08-2021 4:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764409#Comment_117764409

There are regulations which should make those items electrically quiet. In the real world a lot of stuff does not conform, and should not be on sale. Try plugging them in one at a time to see if any particular item is the worst.

Also you probably know you can move the radio around if it has an internal ferrite rod antenna. This peaks or nulls LW and MW signals.

Ger Roe · 18-08-2021 10:44am

Electrical noise is impossible to avoid these days unfortunately. The devices that generate the noise, are of more interest and use to the average household, than the long wave signal we might try to receive through their radiated electromagnetic haze. I am reluctant to say it, as a long standing LW fan, but it's day has come... and gone, it certainly should no longer be staunchly defended as RTE's main international service outlet.

Ridding the world, or my house or my neighbours house, of noisy devices, is like King Canute trying to hold back the tide. Listening to the monthly AM broadcasts from Radio Caroline on 1368 khz, I find it best to go out for a walk - usually around Greystones, where even there the noise from the DART power lines, domestic supply overhead cables and various kerbside telecomms boxes, will wipe the signal out in many places. I mainly listen via an app on my phone or use an internet radio and I then have a perfect stereo signal that never varies.

Die hard radio fans might put some effort into listening to an AM signal that they want to experiment with, but casual listeners will not. I enjoy the challenge, but it is becoming more of a challenge. The Irish diaspora in the UK that apparently rely the LW signal, frankly deserve and indeed have, better options. Maybe it would be better and easier to assist them to exercise those options?

18-08-2021 1:21pm

I think one of the biggest mistakes RTE ever made was to launch Radio 1 on Longwave in the first place, instead they should have kept 567 MW because most people still have access to a radio with MW, especially in cars, so it would be useful for sport opt-outs.. I wonder what percentage of households have access to a radio with Longwave in 2021?

Antenna · 18-08-2021 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767641#Comment_117767641

Running a radio on batteries (and keeping it away from the mains wiring) can also help, as interference on MW/LW can often strongly run along the mains wiring.

FM and DAB can also be badly affected by interference within buildings from IT equipment etc, however it is probably often wrongly assumed to be weak signals as the effects are less likely to sound like interference, often just an increase in 'hiss' on FM (and stop/start reception on DAB).

Mickey Mike · 18-08-2021 7:37pm

Even though LW is back, the quality of the signal is very disappointing, just about enough to make people change to other and better platforms. To think this is a multi million euro upgrade and maintenance job is an absolute scandalous waste of taxpayers money for what its worth.

Pelvis Parsley · 18-08-2021 8:56pm

I find it clear as a bell actually, especially since Chaine disappeared from North Africa.

Mind you, with the exception of the infotainment system in my cars, all my radios are vintage-nothing newer than mid sixties. They tended to have a more attentive design in regard to AM sound quality.

10000maniacs · 22-08-2021 11:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117314342#Comment_117314342

Whenever I spend time in the UK, it's nice to have RTE 1 available on the move. A lot of UK people listen to 252 too judging by the radio and DX forums.

In terms of costs in maintaining 252, it is better value than DAB. I have more use for 252 than DAB.

And it turns out that the OP's account of the situation was accurate all along.

Why assume someone is trolling when they post once with no other evidence available?

23-08-2021 12:49pm

The issue I see with this investment is that history will likely repeat it self, they did the exact same job on the ballycommon stick in 2004/2005, only to close it down 3 years later, it then sat there doing nothing until this year they put out a tender to have it blown up. Questions were never asked about the substantial investment they made in refurbishment at Ballycommon in the mid 00s. What I see happening now is that in a year or two the UK law will be changed to allow RTE Radio 1 on DAB in the UK and they will then shut down Summerhill and it will sit there until a demolition tender is issued in the mid 2030s.

10000maniacs · 23-08-2021 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792630#Comment_117792630

They are not allowed to put foreign stations on DAB in the UK.

Losty Dublin · 23-08-2021 4:35pm

Give him a chance; he only said that he envisages the law in the UK changing in the future.

An alternative route for RTÉ would be to set up a stand alone station in the UK. Register a shelf company then a small studio set up in London or Manchester or Birmingham (Which could be used as a UK news desk) to broadcast 2 or 3 live hours a day or whatever the minimum output is now in the UK. In days gone by it could have been cheaper than feeding 252 with close to a megawatt of power that it used at one time.

10000maniacs · 26-08-2021 10:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793799#Comment_117793799

500 KW during daytime and 100 KW at night-time. Just to clarify.

Mickey Mike · 28-09-2021 6:22pm

Looks like Algerian radio 252 is complete off air, nothing coming through on it, unless its on very reduced power, good for the people here who depend on the service.

tinytobe · 03-10-2021 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950925#Comment_117950925

Algeria on 252 seems permanently off air.

Atlantic 252 and RTE 1 on 252 had more power once. RTE reduced power a couple of years ago, making reception even in the UK not easy. Especially in Kent I had issues picking up RTE on 252.

maestroamado · 03-10-2021 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058190147/rte-announce-multi-million-euro-investment-in-longwave-transmissions

I thought it was all internet radio these days.... am i wrong...

tinytobe · 03-10-2021 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117970484#Comment_117970484

I don't think you're wrong. I'd say the RTE was wrong here. They should have invested in DAB+ technology, - after all that's an EU wide regulation as well, with all new cars.

Mickey Mike · 03-10-2021 7:09pm

Keeping 252 is for the old folks in the UK, supposed to be, nothing else. Before the switch off in June the signal was stronger, judging by a certain van I drive, it now seems to be on lower power again, rendering it pretty much hopeless.

tinytobe · 03-10-2021 11:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117971812#Comment_117971812

The thing is that RTE isn't helping anybody if they keep reducing the transmitter power and hope that nobody notices anything.

Back in the good old days, when Atlantic 252, Team Talk and later on RTE Radio 1 was on, the power was 500 kW during daytime and 100 kW during night time. This data can be found in the WRTH, going back to 1997. I just looked it up, just to confirm it.

Now it's apparently down to 60kW ( however not certain). I was often in Brighton in the UK, and the reception of RTE Radio 1 was awful to impossible. Regarding old folks somebody who's hard of hearing would not even be able to understand anything of that low transmission quality. Algeria on air or not didn't matter. It wasn't that way back when they had more power. Also in the city od London the RTE Radio 1 reception has gotten considerably worse, to what it's been before.

So what's the point in keeping the transmitter at a reduced power, and not reaching the population of the Irish diaspora in the UK anymore?

Antenna · 12-05-2022 8:30am

Algeria's 252 LW is back on air in the past couple of days (after a long absence) and this morning audible in the background of RTE co-channel in parts of Ireland

zg3409 · 29-05-2022 8:11pm

I thought RTEs reason for LW was to excuse no MW and to allow coverage in Parts of ROi and NI where FM simply does not make it. I don't think they can claim mainland UK coverage at those power levels.

However many cars no longer have LW receivers.

I do wonder at the actual number of users of the service, as radio is also carried over TV and satellite services so anyone with TV reception can in theory listen to RTE radio 1.

In terms of DAB+ RTE was never serious and I think DAB was a technology looking for a purpose when 99% of the market was and still is FM with RDS.

Politically I think it's a political play, but in financial terms rte has zero budget for anything and pensions and staff come first and loss making no future services like dab+ and LW are just drains on resources.

The reality is the youth market is Spotify etc and the trend is away from driving cars (for youth) and they stream audio or podcasts when listening to audio. I am even guilty of streaming while driving playing audio via Bluetooth on car radio, particularly on long late night drives. I rarely listen to the radio at home or at work.

tinytobe · 30-05-2022 9:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119132062#Comment_119132062

RTE was wrong to invest in the long wave transmitter.

First, most cars don't have a LW radio anymore, nor is there a broad choice of LW Radios in shops around, - other than high priced ones for DX purposes.

And even when LW was a bit more popular, it was Atlantic 252 which was on air, not Radio 1. And with BBC Radio 4 closing down on LW, the LW band will be even emptier.

Also the LW coverage of RTE Radio 1 in the UK is more than abysmal at times, especially in the evenings, in places like Kent or London. Especially in a big city like London there is a lot of electromagnetic interference that makes the RTE Radio 1 signal difficult to receive, also RTE Radio 1 on LW sadly reduced power a couple of years ago, which makes reception even more difficult.

It would make way more sense for the RTE to invest in DAB, - all new cars in the EU are to be sold with a DAB radio which started a couple of years now, also the transmission cost is way cheaper.

Sadly there is a lot of negative thinking towards DAB radio in Ireland.

ReclaimRadio · 22-06-2022 12:58pm

Attempts to abandon LW here ran into problems with a kick back from many Irish in the UK and those of us travelling there by car. We know that LW is unique in its coverage and reaches into Europe. Because the market is digital led many assume the blessings of digital tv will transfer to radio.Not so.Digital radio using freed up space on abandoned tv channels that required roof top aerials but does not work well on portables with simple telescopic aerials at ground level. The solution is very expensive requiring perhaps two to three times as many transmitter sites as FM.

end of the road · 22-06-2022 6:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119234437#Comment_119234437

evidence from the UK shows that even though a DAB network requires more transmitters, the cost of running such a network is less then fm, and less again with dab+.

tinytobe · 05-07-2022 10:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119234437#Comment_119234437

It's very hard to find cars with LW radios these days, and radios on sale with LW are getting fewer and fewer, if they are on sale at all anymore. Also the BBC stated that LW will be shut down at some point due to financial reasons.

Digital DAB Radio is hardly a comparison to LW, DAB can carry 15 to 20 stations per mux, the power is way lower, but yes, you need more transmitters, albeit low power. The latter has the advantage of regional marketing as well.

LW was simply different and simply more attractive 20 years ago and more. You'd have received Europe 1 and RTL from France, and Inter, and also the DLF from Germany, also BBC Radio 4 and Atlantic 252.

Yes LW is unique in a sense in terms of coverage and reception but it's simply out of date. These times will also not return.

10000maniacs · 14-07-2022 8:03pm

RTE Radio 1 LW has been off for a lot of today. Seems to be back now.

JDxtra · 14-07-2022 9:02pm

The cost per listener for this must be enormous, especially with power costs and the maintenance of legacy hardware. Even the numbers of LW radios out there is diminishing fast. There are good alternatives, I really don't see this as an effective use of RTE resources.