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RPZ Area - Rent Increase - Parking Space

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  • 14-06-2021 11:59am
    #1
    Bold Abdu
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭


    I've put this Q to the RTB with no luck.


    I have an apt with a parking space in a RPZ. Property was let at €1,000 per month, not incl. the parking space.


    New tenant will be moving in soon and RPZ calculator says I can charge €1,040. Market rent would be closer to €1,500.


    If the apt was let incl. the parking space could I adjust the rent to €1,500 or could the RTB get involved and state the parking space is only worth €150 (not €460) per month?


    Has anyone come across this issue before?


    Thanks


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    #2
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,679 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Bold Abdu wrote: »
    I've put this Q to the RTB with no luck.


    I have an apt with a parking space in a RPZ. Property was let at €1,000 per month, not incl. the parking space.


    New tenant will be moving in soon and RPZ calculator says I can charge €1,040. Market rent would be closer to €1,500.


    If the apt was let incl. the parking space could I adjust the rent to €1,500 or could the RTB get involved and state the parking space is only worth €150 (not €460) per month?


    Has anyone come across this issue before?


    Thanks

    Rent is €1,000 (property is let without the parking space as I use it myself) and well below MV. RPZ formula says I can increase rent to €1,040. I no longer require the parking space. Can I increase the rent to €say €1,500 i.e. MV incl. parking space.

    RTB cpuldn’t enlighten me.

    Thanks

    You could just rent the car space out separately for 450 a month and that's your problem solved.


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    #3
    Bold Abdu
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭Bold Abdu


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    You could just rent the car space out separately for 450 a month and that's your problem solved.


    That's not really possible as the tenant (which I haven't found yet) may not want the parking space and it's only really worth c€150.


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    #4
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,679 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Bold Abdu wrote: »
    That's not really possible as the tenant (which I haven't found yet) may not want the parking space and it's only really worth c€150.

    So it's only worth 150, but you would to bundle it in with the apartment and charge 450 effectively???

    Others have told me that you are required to tell the new tenants what you charged the old tenant - if true they'll know your throwing in the car space and charging 450 for it.... not sure how that will go down.


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    #5
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Personally, I would not expect the addition of a parking space to exempt the property from the RPZ restrictions.

    There are exemptions if the property is taken out of the rental market for a number of years or there is a substantial change in the nature of the property. I don't see how either of these could apply. I suppose you could try arguing the parking space is a substantial change but I expect an RTB determination would see through this pretty quickly and would not go in your favour.

    When did you last review the rent OP, if it's been a number of years you can increase by more than 4%


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    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bold Abdu wrote: »
    I have an apt with a parking space in a RPZ. Property was let at €1,000 per month, not incl. the parking space.


    New tenant will be moving in soon and RPZ calculator says I can charge €1,040. Market rent would be closer to €1,500.


    If the apt was let incl. the parking space could I adjust the rent to €1,500 or could the RTB get involved and state the parking space is only worth €150 (not €460) per month?
    Ace2007 wrote: »
    You could just rent the car space out separately for 450 a month and that's your problem solved.
    Bold Abdu wrote: »
    That's not really possible as the tenant (which I haven't found yet) may not want the parking space and it's only really worth c€150.

    Ah landlords


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    #7
    deise121
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭deise121


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ah landlords

    exactly this. greed


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    #8
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    deise121 wrote: »
    exactly this. greed

    Landlord is losing out on €500 a month because he undercharged the previous tenant.


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    #9
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    any more whitty/sarcastic one liners are not welcome and will not end well.


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    #10
    Ace2007
    Registered Users Posts: 19,679 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    Landlord is losing out on €500 a month because he undercharged the previous tenant.

    This is is the reason why nearly all landlords in RPZ will put up the rent by the max this year - be it 4%/8%, cause being nice to a tenant works out bad in the long term otherwise.


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    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    deise121 wrote: »
    exactly this. greed

    The greed of renting out a property on the cheap when similar properties are going for 50% more? Indeed, typical Scrooge McDuck behaviour......:confused:


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    #12
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,649 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Bundling a parking space with the rental would not allow you to bypass RPZ restrictions; it is not a substantial change in the nature of the dwelling. You could rent the parking space separately, however, and parking space rentals are not subject to any rent restrictions that I know of. The fact that the space isn't worth the amount you're wanting to rent it for is immaterial.

    If the RPZ restrictions are only allowing you to raise the rent to €1040 from €1000, that means the rent was set at €1000 only a year ago. Market rents have not increased 50% in the past 12 months, and the RPZ regulations were in effect 12 months ago, so that means you either chose to rent the place out at a significantly below-market rent despite being aware of the RPZ restrictions, or that you've been renting the place for longer than the RPZ restrictions were in effect and chose not to raise the rent before they took effect back when they were first announced. Either way, you made that choice, and now you'll need to abide by the restrictions based on the current rent amount. All you can do is keep raising it 4% every year like clockwork to maximise the compounding effect of the allowed rent increases until such time as the RPZ legislation is changed or allowed to expire.


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dennyk wrote: »
    so that means you either chose to rent the place out at a significantly below-market rent.......or that you've been renting the place for longer than the RPZ restrictions were in effect and chose not to raise the rent before they took effect back when they were first announced

    The irony being, of course, that the best way not to find yourself in this situation was by being greedy, the exact adjective which other posters are prescribing to you now.

    Damned if you do........


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    #14
    houseyhouse
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭houseyhouse


    Just because you were renting at €1000 doesn’t mean your max is now 1040 unless it was set at 1k exactly a year ago. When did you last set the rent? It’s 4% increase per year *since last set* so if you last set it 4 years ago and then left it until tenants moved out, you could now increase by 16%. Similarly, landlords don’t need to increase by 4% each year so long as they don’t sign a new lease they can get that increase again in the future

    Edited to add: I see others have made the same point already


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    #15
    Bold Abdu
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭Bold Abdu


    Not actually my property. Property belongs to an old relative and some of the figures in my query were indicative only.


    I've seen the actual figures now.


    Current rent €1,600. Per RPZ Calc' rent can be increased to €1,701. This is all based on no parking space. Intermittently the parking space had been separately let to the previous tenant at €100 (below MV in the area) per month



    Landlord would like to let to a tenant for at least €1,801 incl. parking space......or more as €1,801 is still below MV. She doesn't want the hassle (small as it might be) of having 2 separate agreements.


    Thanks for the input. Appreciated.


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    #16
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,329 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Bold Abdu wrote:
    Landlord would like to let to a tenant for at least €1,801 incl. parking space......or more as €1,801 is still below MV. She doesn't want the hassle (small as it might be) of having 2 separate agreements.

    Imagine if you're renting out a house with a front garden, back garden and shed. You can't get some the rpz restrictions by charging separately for each.


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    #17
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,044 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Imagine if you're renting out a house with a front garden, back garden and shed. You can't get some the rpz restrictions by charging separately for each.

    A more useful analogy would be a shed on a separate plot which can be rented independent of the house, does the tenant want to pay to use of that shed as well? It is worth baring in mind, the owner can rent the car space separately from the house, and the tenant may have to pay to park elsewhere, that does not apply to a front/back garden of a house.

    The only quote from the RTB on car parking charges relates to tenancies where use of the space was included free in the tenancy from the outset, then the LL decides to later charge for it. There seems to be nothing in the RTA nor online preventing an apartment space from being rented separately, or assigned a value in a tenancy agreement, it is not an integral part of the accommodation.

    https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/know-your-rights-on-rent-hikes-as-landlords-dodge-control-rules-36537454.html


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    #18
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    OP contact rtb on this. Always charge the max rent. You will never get a thank you or appreciation for charging below market. Inflation is and will be biting hard with repair prices etc while you are Billy to good for himself.


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    #19
    Bold Abdu
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭Bold Abdu


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Imagine if you're renting out a house with a front garden, back garden and shed. You can't get some the rpz restrictions by charging separately for each.


    Not really a good analogy.


    The apt is in DCC. Was first let c6 years ago. As landlord wanted to retain the parking space for personal use, the apt was let at a price that reflected the fact there was no parking available.



    Circumstances evolved, and the space was subsequently let on and off to the tenant at a price of €100. This tenant has now left.


    The law seems to state that the landlord can never (except after 3 years out of rental market) really package the apt & space together and get the value for the space which is odd.


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    #20
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Bold Abdu wrote: »
    The law seems to state that the landlord can never (except after 3 years out of rental market) really package the apt & space together and get the value for the space which is odd.

    That's not what you're trying to do though is it? You're trying to use the parking space to circumvent the RPZ restrictions.

    Added:

    That's not a judgment btw, I can understand why you'd want to.


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    #21
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,044 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Graham wrote: »
    That's not what you're trying to do though is it? You're trying to use the parking space to circumvent the RPZ restrictions.

    Which RPZ restriction refers to rental of parking spaces?


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    #22
    Jmc25
    Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭Jmc25


    Without getting into the moral rights or wrongs on this, from a purely practical point of view, would agree with others that the RTB are unlikely to rule in your favour if a case was ever taken.


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    #23
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,649 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Bold Abdu wrote: »
    The law seems to state that the landlord can never (except after 3 years out of rental market) really package the apt & space together and get the value for the space which is odd.

    You can get the value for the space by renting it to the tenant separately in this case, since it wasn't originally included in the tenancy agreement when the place was first rented. This is actually a good thing for you; the RTA doesn't apply to the letting of individual parking spaces that are not included as part of a residential tenancy, so you are free to charge as much as you want for your parking space, regardless of what you charged a previous lessee, and you're free to increase that parking space rent whenever you want (subject to the terms of whatever lease agreement you enter into with the lessee for the space, of course). You can rent the apartment for €1700 and the space for €150 and be bringing in €1850 a month in total (assuming the tenant wants a parking space and is willing to pay €150 for yours, of course).

    If you were to bundle the space with your existing tenancy, you could no longer do that; you'd be restricted to the RTA and RPZ limitations on rent increases for the apartment and the parking space together for as long as the RPZ restrictions are in place, and you would not have the option of changing your mind and "unbundling" the parking space from the apartment tenancy going forward, as it'd be seen as a violation of the RPZ regulations.
    Bold Abdu wrote: »
    She doesn't want the hassle (small as it might be) of having 2 separate agreements.

    This is silly. A lease agreement for a parking space is a very simple document, and if she's renting it out to her existing tenant, she doesn't even have to worry about chasing down two separate people for monthly payments. Don't know why she wouldn't be willing to spend a few minutes drawing up a simple leasing agreement for an extra ~€150/month (and actually she should have one already from the last tenant she rented it to, so she could just reuse that old agreement as a template). Heck, for that money it'd even be worth paying a solicitor to draft it, if she's paranoid about it being just right; she'd probably make the cost back in the first month.


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    #24
    houseyhouse
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭houseyhouse


    Am I dreaming or was there somebody in another thread recently saying that when they rented their new place they had to sign a separate lease for a parking space even though they don't have a car. The estate agent told them they couldn't rent the apartment without the space. In Clontarf, maybe?


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