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Why old people were always "Green".

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    #62
    hirondelle
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭hirondelle


    fvp4 wrote: »
    do you deduct the cost of carbon from western exports on a per country basis?

    That would reduce Ireland’s carbon emissions a lot. We would have to work out the carbon cost of export businesses, across their use of electricity, fuel and transport. Including services.

    For instance a lot of the data centre cost would be attributed to the rest of the EU.

    The specifics do need to be worked out for accurate carbon budgeting, I was just making the point that it is too simplistic to say the the country that produces the goods is solely responsible for the emissions caused in the manufacturing process.


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    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hirondelle wrote: »
    The specifics do need to be worked out for accurate carbon budgeting, I was just making the point that it is too simplistic to say the the country that produces the goods is solely responsible for the emissions caused in the manufacturing process.

    So, no then? Because as I said until now the west was blamed for its manufacturing carbon costs, and historical manufacturing carbon costs.

    Also if we want to get to zero carbon in Europe but exports are charged to consumer countries, what’s the mechanism. All we can do is ban Chinese exports.


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    #64
    parkman6551
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭parkman6551


    Interestingly enough, I did read that data back-up centres produce very large amounts of CO2, and there are lots of them in Ireland and Europe. I did quite a bit of work in some of them, about ten years ago, and was amazed at the amount of large car batteries that they needed. Thousands of them, in huge banks, all needing huge amounts of mains power to keep them powered up.

    I hate to think how much "fossil fuel" needed to be generated to keep all these centres going.

    Parkman.


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    #65
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,178 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Blaming old people or young people doesn't help. Nearly all the pollution is caused by the desire to keep money changing hands. A few wealthy men with top hats in the 19th century and early 20th set us on the path we're on now but they're long dead.


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    #66
    hirondelle
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭hirondelle


    fvp4 wrote: »
    So, no then? Because as I said until now the west was blamed for its manufacturing carbon costs, and historical manufacturing carbon costs.

    Also if we want to get to zero carbon in Europe but exports are charged to consumer countries, what’s the mechanism. All we can do is ban Chinese exports.

    Did I say no? It will clearly take a fairly complicated balancing procedure in terms of whose budget the carbon goes into because there is a back and forth over where the responsibility lies- hence me saying it wasn't an issue with a simple cause. And yes, the data in the data centres "comes from people elsewhere.
    The alternative to this is what exactly? Throw our hands up and say we are doomed, or just carry on and hope?


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    #67
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,178 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    hirondelle wrote: »
    Did I say no? It will clearly take a fairly complicated balancing procedure in terms of whose budget the carbon goes into because there is a back and forth over where the responsibility lies- hence me saying it wasn't an issue with a simple cause. And yes, the data in the data centres "comes from people elsewhere.
    The alternative to this is what exactly? Throw our hands up and say we are doomed, or just carry on and hope?




    I think we should all become hippies and live off the grid in the mountains. They are way happier, have much more craic, aren't trapped in the rat race of modern world and the few miles they drive their VW camper vans won't have an impact on the climate and can probably be done using bio fuels.


    The modern world is a load of sh1t. Spend 30 years to pay for a brick box, 3-5k in uTility bills, property tax. Then every 10 years or so things start looking "dated" and need to be replaced. Products should be designed to be infinitely repairable. These days you have people running around like fools just trying to hold on to what they have.


    Everything is gone ridiculously expensive and at every turn you have people demanding money off you for doing nothing. Cutting off all ties with China would be a good idea, we'd have to go back to focusing on the necessities and do away with most of the consumerist nonsense


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    #68
    hirondelle
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭hirondelle


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    I think we should all become hippies and live off the grid in the mountains. They are way happier, have much more craic, aren't trapped in the rat race of modern world and the few miles they drive their VW camper vans won't have an impact on the climate and can probably be done using bio fuels.


    The modern world is a load of sh1t. Spend 30 years to pay for a brick box, 3-5k in uTility bills, property tax. Then every 10 years or so things start looking "dated" and need to be replaced. Products should be designed to be infinitely repairable. These days you have people running around like fools just trying to hold on to what they have.


    Everything is gone ridiculously expensive and at every turn you have people demanding money off you for doing nothing. Cutting off all ties with China would be a good idea, we'd have to go back to focusing on the necessities and do away with most of the consumerist nonsense

    I'm not a Chinese trade attache! I think the particular source country is irrelevant, Britain once prided itself on being the Workshop of the World, China now has that tag, and once the global economic drivers bring up the QOL expectations of Asia, Africa will presumably become the next global manufacturing hub. The root of the problem is the consumerism nonsense as you say- but I fundamentally disagree that closing off the current source of cheap labour will do a thing to change that.


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