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Are ugliness and disability comparable disadvantages when dating??

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    #92
    OnTheCouch
    Registered Users Posts: 526 ✭✭✭OnTheCouch


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Kind of easier to put on a bit of makeup and highheels though than to be rich/ charming/funny/intelligent ://////

    True indeed...I suppose my point was more that the options for women are rather limited compared to the possibilities open to men...(irrespective of the respective difficulties both sexes have in doing them).


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    #93
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    Agree with most of you post, just not with the following paragraph:
    OnTheCouch wrote: »
    Both sexes can of course punch above their weight, but I would argue this is easier for men than women. The latter can wear makeup, nice clothes and so on in order to improve her lot. but men can do better in numerous ways ranging from having confidence, good dress sense, a higher social status, e.g. being a celebrity, money, charm/impeccable manners, good sense of humour, intelligence, good body language, a lot of influence, even kindness .

    You say above that things which women can do to attract men to her are:
    Wear make-up.
    Wear nice clothes.

    Fair enough, but yet you then say it is easier for men to attract women as there is more which they can do, such as:
    Have confidence.
    Good dress sense.
    Higher social status.
    Be a celebrity.
    Money.
    Charm/impeccable manners.
    Good sense of humour, kindness.
    Intelligence.
    Good body language.
    Lot of influence.

    Now, I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but most of the things which you list that men can do to attract women, are not things which a man can necessarily choose to do. For example, while I without question agree with you that if a man has money, is a celebrity, has influence, a higher social status etc.. that he will attract women to him, of course he will, but these things are not things which a man can just do, in the same way that a women can just put on make-up and wear nice clothes etc and so I don't think you are correct when you say it is easier for men, unless that is, they 'are' the things which you list.

    The rest of the virtues that you list, like intelligence, confidence, style, charm, kindness etc are also pretty much things which a guy has or doesn't. Women will be the first to tell you that if a guy acts confident, but underneath, isn't really, then they will pick up on it and won't find the fact that he faked it all attractive and so we are really back to the fact that it is much simpler for women to attract men, than it is for men to attract women. Well, at least until such time as women get as hypothesized by men wearing apple bottom jeans and low cut tops, as we do, when they wear 'em.


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    #94
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,495 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    Agree with most of you post, just not with the following paragraph:



    You say above that things which women can do to attract men to her are:



    Fair enough, but yet you then say it is easier for men to attract women as there is more which they can do, such as:



    Now, I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but most of the things which you list that men can do to attract women, are not things which a man can necessarily choose to do. For example, while I without question agree with you that if a man has money, is a celebrity, has influence, a higher social status etc.. that he will attract women to him, of course he will, but these things are not things which a man can just do, in the same way that a women can just put on make-up and wear nice clothes etc and so I don't think you are correct when you say it is easier for men, unless that is, they 'are' the things which you list.

    The rest of the virtues that you list, like intelligence, confidence, style, charm, kindness etc are also pretty much things which a guy has or doesn't. Women will be the first to tell you that if a guy acts confident, but underneath, isn't really, then they will pick up on it and won't find the fact that he faked it all attractive and so we are really back to the fact that it is much simpler for women to attract men, than it is for men to attract women. Well, at least until such time as women get as hypothesized by men wearing apple bottom jeans and low cut tops, as we do, when they wear 'em.

    YES


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    #95
    OnTheCouch
    Registered Users Posts: 526 ✭✭✭OnTheCouch


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    Agree with most of you post, just not with the following paragraph:



    You say above that things which women can do to attract men to her are:



    Fair enough, but yet you then say it is easier for men to attract women as there is more which they can do, such as:



    Now, I'm not sure if you noticed or not, but most of the things which you list that men can do to attract women, are not things which a man can necessarily choose to do. For example, while I without question agree with you that if a man has money, is a celebrity, has influence, a higher social status etc.. that he will attract women to him, of course he will, but these things are not things which a man can just do, in the same way that a women can just put on make-up and wear nice clothes etc and so I don't think you are correct when you say it is easier for men, unless that is, they 'are' the things which you list.

    The rest of the virtues that you list, like intelligence, confidence, style, charm, kindness etc are also pretty much things which a guy has or doesn't. Women will be the first to tell you that if a guy acts confident, but underneath, isn't really, then they will pick up on it and won't find the fact that he faked it all attractive and so we are really back to the fact that it is much simpler for women to attract men, than it is for men to attract women. Well, at least until such time as women get as hypothesized by men wearing apple bottom jeans and low cut tops, as we do, when they wear 'em.

    Ah yes, fair enough, well-spotted, can see in retrospect that there are some contradictions in my post.

    I suppose the issue is the erroneous use of the word 'easier.' Perhaps this was not the best term to use. Maybe I should have emphasised how the possibilities that are in theory feasible for men to increase attraction in the opposite sex are more widespread and numerous, but these are often considerably harder (or even impossible) to obtain compared to the options women have.

    Naturally enough if a man is struggling with the opposite sex he cannot exactly click his fingers and instantly become rich or famous in the same way that women can decide to skillfully apply cosmetics.

    Of course the point I was trying to make was that if you and I know a particularly ugly woman and she for whatever reason became rich or famous overnight, it is unlikely to change our attraction for her in any meaningful way, her presence may make us a bit more curious, but that's about it. The other way round though and you are likely to see a huge difference. Men are so visual that even if a woman is extremely funny, kind, confident etc etc, there still needs to be a physical attraction there for us to be interested unfortunately.

    Where I will slightly disagree with you is that although some of the aspects in my list are indeed very difficult to attain, such as influence/fame/money, others can definitely be worked on. Now a big change is unlikely to happen overnight, but things like sense of humour, body language, style, good manners etc can certainly be improved if one makes a conscious effort to do so.

    Of course I will go along with you generally when I say it would on the whole be easier for women to attract men than vice versa. Other posts of mine would indicate this as well.

    I tried a very interesting experiment on Tinder the other day. Instead of saying I was interested in women only, I changed my settings to both looking for both men and women and then subsequently clicked on the men whom I found to be objectively good looking, well-dressed etc.

    In 15 minutes I had got more matches with men than the previous three weeks with women. I found this quite staggering and just shows how tough men can have it in certain situations.


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    #96
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    OnTheCouch wrote: »
    Of course the point I was trying to make was that if you and I know a particularly ugly woman and she for whatever reason became rich or famous overnight, it is unlikely to change our attraction for her in any meaningful way, her presence may make us a bit more curious, but that's about it.

    The other way round though and you are likely to see a huge difference. Men are so visual that even if a woman is extremely funny, kind, confident etc etc, there still needs to be a physical attraction there for us to be interested unfortunately.

    Couldn't agree more. Niall Horan would be would still be struggling to get Mullingar jumper titty if he wasn't in 1D, whereas, a girl like Una Healey has most likely had guys trying to ride her since she made her confirmation.
    Where I will slightly disagree with you is that although some of the aspects in my list are indeed very difficult to attain, such as influence/fame/money, others can definitely be worked on. Now a big change is unlikely to happen overnight, but things like sense of humour, body language, style, good manners etc can certainly be improved if one makes a conscious effort to do so.

    Yeah, but eh, hhmm.. I agree with the premise of what your saying but disagree with whether or not guys should really do that tbh. I won't get into in to it here, as it would be way OT, but have posted my opinions on that very thing in [URL="httphttp://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90256811&postcount=172"]this[/URL] post in tGC.
    Of course I will go along with you generally when I say it would on the whole be easier for women to attract men than vice versa. Other posts of mine would indicate this as well.

    I tried a very interesting experiment on Tinder the other day. Instead of saying I was interested in women only, I changed my settings to both looking for both men and women and then subsequently clicked on the men whom I found to be objectively good looking, well-dressed etc.

    In 15 minutes I had got more matches with men than the previous three weeks with women. I found this quite staggering and just shows how tough men can have it in certain situations.

    Aye, well said. I've seen reports of guys doing similar experiments also and it almost always plays out the same way.

    With regards to disabilities though, have no idea how much a revelation of that on a dating profile would effect the volume of replies. When I was single, I know that a disability wouldn't have bothered me. Indeed, I chatted up one gorgeous rock chick who was in a wheelchair one night at a metal gig. She was down from Belfast though, and so never seen her again. She looked like a young Diane Lane, smokin' hot and I was far from the only guy eying her up either.


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    #97
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Jeez, I'd have thought it's most definitely easier (generally speaking) for girls to "pull"?
    Not every woman is into wearing make-up, and too much make-up looks awful, but a bit of well applied make-up, heels, and wearing the gruaig down, can absolutely transform an average-looking gal.


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    #98
    jobeenfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭jobeenfitz


    Vito Corleone wrote: »
    One thing I always see on Facebook is people saying you look gorgeous to people who clearly don't. I've never been able to understand why people are so false, as if there is any possible way the person they're saying it to believes them. Why give someone false hope? Why insult their intelligence. :confused:


    Maybe they are looking for something? Us humans lie to people so they will like us or do something in return for us. Sometimes we do this without being conscious or just don't want to admit this to ourselves.

    I think you have a wonderful username.


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    #99
    Lou.m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    Magaggie wrote: »
    It's not "right on" - some of us just dislike that out-of-10 thing. It's crass and unnecessary. It doesn't mean though that I also buy into the notion that anyone can be with anyone and looks never matter.

    Can't those terms be used though instead of out-of-10? One person's 7 might be another person's 9 anyway. The descriptive terms are more all-encompassing.
    That out-of-10 stuff is PUA language and it's socially inept stuff.

    It would be arrogant to assume that after thousands of years of people trying to muddle through relationships that we have suddenly understood what they are.

    Not everything can be measured.

    And this idea that you can do things to make yourself more attractive is silly.
    There is what you think you want and who you need. You need someone you can make it work with.
    The person who is right for you is the person who can make you feel comfortable.

    Genuine people will not hang around a woman or a man for the wrong reasons.

    In other words all that status /looks crap will attract the wrong sort. It is you that will attract what is right for you.

    Ugliness is not something I believe in. I have been with guys who have had very low self esteem. I saw something in them and liked them.

    People like to think that they can become charming as if life is theatre. You can't control it and if you try to then you have actually lost it. You have lost the ability to socialize because it is partially unconscious. I don't have to try being nice ..I am nice. Why try and be someone you are not who you are is pretty great!

    The first thing PUA says to a man is there is something wrong with you. The second thing is says is you are not valuable to society on your own you need women that is how you are rated. We are not what others rate us to be. You have to be on the inside looking out not the outside looking in. Then it tells men they are not lovable or ****able or whatever. Then they are told it's ok to forget about other peoples feelings and hurt them to get what you want.

    It is not US that benefit from the idea of leagues of attractiveness. It is infact people who want to sell you crap. What is attractive in India is not here.

    What worries me is I think most people think or react as you do. Maybe my brain works differently.

    What you are attracted to is individual. And a lot of it is how the person reacts to you.

    It is wrong to think anyone is in a different league. You could be the perfect package for someone out there. There is no such thing as mr perfect...but there might be a mr right for you.

    Everyone is a ten. I will hear no more about it.


    Someones else's ten is zero to others.

    So feel good about yourself

    And also how others rate you is not what you are. Be on the inside of yourself it is where your soul and heart lie :)


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    #100
    jobeenfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭jobeenfitz


    Lou.m wrote: »
    It would be arrogant to assume that after thousands of years of people trying to muddle through relationships that we have suddenly understood what they are.

    Not everything can be measured.

    And this idea that you can do things to make yourself more attractive is silly.
    There is what you think you want and who you need. You need someone you can make it work with.
    The person who is right for you is the person who can make you feel comfortable.

    Genuine people will not hang around a woman or a man for the wrong reasons.

    In other words all that status /looks crap will attract the wrong sort. It is you that will attract what is right for you.

    Ugliness is not something I believe in. I have been with guys who have had very low self esteem. I saw something in them and liked them.

    People like to think that they can become charming as if life is theatre. You can't control it and if you try to then you have actually lost it. You have lost the ability to socialize because it is partially unconscious. I don't have to try being nice ..I am nice. Why try and be someone you are not who you are is pretty great!

    The first thing PUA says to a man is there is something wrong with you. The second thing is says is you are not valuable to society on your own you need women that is how you are rated. We are not what others rate us to be. You have to be on the inside looking out not the outside looking in. Then it tells men they are not lovable or ****able or whatever. Then they are told it's ok to forget about other peoples feelings and hurt them to get what you want.

    It is not US that benefit from the idea of leagues of attractiveness. It is infact people who want to sell you crap. What is attractive in India is not here.

    What worries me is I think most people think or react as you do. Maybe my brain works differently.

    What you are attracted to is individual. And a lot of it is how the person reacts to you.

    It is wrong to think anyone is in a different league. You could be the perfect package for someone out there. There is no such thing as mr perfect...but there might be a mr right for you.

    Everyone is a ten. I will hear no more about it.


    Someones else's ten is zero to others.

    So feel good about yourself

    And also how others rate you is not what you are. Be on the inside of yourself it is where your soul and heart lie :)


    Lou you do sound nice and this is a nice post but the real world is a harsh place.

    I want to believe in fluffiness, god and unicorns, I just cant!

    Ok then, maybe I do believe in fluffiness?


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    #101
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Lou.m wrote: »
    And this idea that you can do things to make yourself more attractive is silly.
    No it isn't!
    The first thing PUA says to a man is there is something wrong with you. The second thing is says is you are not valuable to society on your own you need women that is how you are rated. We are not what others rate us to be. You have to be on the inside looking out not the outside looking in. Then it tells men they are not lovable or ****able or whatever. Then they are told it's ok to forget about other peoples feelings and hurt them to get what you want.
    I agree with that.
    Everyone is a ten. I will hear no more about it.

    Someones else's ten is zero to others.
    Lovely idea but not reality. It's denial to state that anyone can be with anyone. But I'm only saying that in relation to extremes. Most people are neither extreme and end up with someone. Of course you should love yourself, but part of that is looking after yourself (so that contradicts the claim that it's silly to think you can do things to make yourself more attractive). Some people are objectively better-looking/more attractive than others - there's nothing terrible about acknowledging this.


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    #102
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭onrail


    Jesus this was a fierce interesting debate.

    Anyway, to tie up - we never met....


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    #103
    G_R
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,025 Mod ✭✭✭✭G_R


    onrail wrote: »
    Jesus this was a fierce interesting debate.

    Anyway, to tie up - we never met....

    And everyone lived happily ever after


This discussion has been closed.
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