Property Advertised for Sale but appears no intention to sell?!?!?

Civil Eng · 12-10-2015 2:21pm #1

Hi there

Looking for some input/advice from you guys.

So, I have been actively engaged with an estate agent regarding a particular property but for some reason we sense either there is no intention to sell the property or else there is some reason why the seller can't sell the property.

So in essence an estate agent is advertising a property for sale but we believe there is some underlying reason why they wont sell.

Why are we suspicious? We've made several strong offer, the asking price changes every time we ring (EA obviously doesn't rate our memory), lots of little oddities.... Every time I ring the EA I feel like she can't wait to terminate the conversation and hang up the call!!

Incidentally, we are not speculative punters. This is a property we are very interested in and have the means to buy.

The_Conductor · 12-10-2015 2:23pm

Its quite possible that the bank want the owners to sell- and they have to be seen to be proactively trying to sell- but have no intention of doing so........

If you're getting messed around like this- move on- it'll only wreck your head otherwise.

Civil Eng · 12-10-2015 2:44pm

Any tips on smoking the EA out?

seamus · 12-10-2015 2:45pm

Bank involvement is most likely though I wouldn't rule out estate agency incompetence, or a combination of the two (i.e. bank wants to sell, EA knows the vendor doesn't, but can't keep their story straight).

Similar one went up when we were looking. It went up before we even started. The sign stayed up, but the property kept appearing and disappearing from the property sites. House was vacant so we thought it was good for a look.

Rang the EA to see what the story was, told I'd get a call back. Grand. Call back, "That's been withdrawn, the vendor has asked to take it off the market". OK so.
Two days later, another call from a different person in the same agency, "That's gone sale agreed". O...K...."Can you tell me what it went agreed at? I'm interested in similar properties in the area". "No, I can't tell you". O...K.

It's now back up on the all the property sites again. Same agent.

Tips? If you're making an offer, always email it in. Ring them, make the offer and then send an email to both the specific agent selling it and the general office address. They can pretend they didn't receive a phone call or "forgot" to make a note of your offer.

Civil Eng · 12-10-2015 3:08pm

seamus wrote: »

Bank involvement is most likely though I wouldn't rule out estate agency incompetence, or a combination of the two (i.e. bank wants to sell, EA knows the vendor doesn't, but can't keep their story straight).

Similar one went up when we were looking. It went up before we even started. The sign stayed up, but the property kept appearing and disappearing from the property sites. House was vacant so we thought it was good for a look.

Rang the EA to see what the story was, told I'd get a call back. Grand. Call back, "That's been withdrawn, the vendor has asked to take it off the market". OK so.
Two days later, another call from a different person in the same agency, "That's gone sale agreed". O...K...."Can you tell me what it went agreed at? I'm interested in similar properties in the area". "No, I can't tell you". O...K.

It's now back up on the all the property sites again. Same agent.

Tips? If you're making an offer, always email it in. Ring them, make the offer and then send an email to both the specific agent selling it and the general office address. They can pretend they didn't receive a phone call or "forgot" to make a note of your offer.

I suspect it's not total incompetence on the EA's part. Incidentally, if the bank wanted to sell would they not engage the EA directly who would just get on and sell the property?

Carawaystick · 12-10-2015 3:15pm

Only the owners can sell a property...

The_Conductor · 12-10-2015 3:30pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Only the owners can sell a property...

Errr - yes........
However- an owner can be compelled to place a property on the market- without their having any intention of selling?
Thats the point we're making.........
Further- an owner can be instructed to sell anything there is a lien on- if the terms associated with the lien are breached.
So- simply saying 'only an owner can sell a property...' isn't technically correct.

Uno my Uno. · 12-10-2015 3:40pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Errr - yes........
However- an owner can be compelled to place a property on the market- without their having any intention of selling?
Thats the point we're making.........
Further- an owner can be instructed to sell anything there is a lien on- if the terms associated with the lien are breached.
So- simply saying 'only an owner can sell a property...' isn't technically correct.

It's entirely correct to say that only the owner can sell the house, he bank can't sell the property nor can they compel the owner to do anything unless they have a court order to that effect.

Yes the. Bank can pressurise an owner to sell or lost a house but that is entirely different from compelling.

Mrs cockett · 12-10-2015 3:44pm

Civil Eng wrote: »

Hi there

Looking for some input/advice from you guys.

So, I have been actively engaged with an estate agent regarding a particular property but for some reason we sense either there is no intention to sell the property or else there is some reason why the seller can't sell the property.

So in essence an estate agent is advertising a property for sale but we believe there is some underlying reason why they wont sell.

Why are we suspicious? We've made several strong offer, the asking price changes every time we ring (EA obviously doesn't rate our memory), lots of little oddities.... Every time I ring the EA I feel like she can't wait to terminate the conversation and hang up the call!!

Incidentally, we are not speculative punters. This is a property we are very interested in and have the means to buy.

I think I would move on, there is something "odd" going on here

Civil Eng · 12-10-2015 3:49pm

Mrs cockett wrote: »

I think I would move on, there is something "odd" going on here

Is there any recourse or would it be a case of 'tough'...

The_Conductor · 12-10-2015 3:50pm

Civil Eng wrote: »

Is there any recourse or would it be a case of 'tough'...

No recourse unfortunately.
Until you have signed contracts- either party can pretty much do whatever they like- with no recourse whatsoever.........

westcoast66 · 12-10-2015 3:57pm

Why not contact the bank and tell them that you are willing to make an offer but the EA is being uncooperative? The bank can be found by inspecting the house on the land registry.

Civil Eng · 12-10-2015 4:02pm

westcoast66 wrote: »

Why not contact the bank and tell them that you are willing to make an offer but the EA is being uncooperative? The bank can be found by inspecting the house on the land registry.

Checked on landdirect.ie map but unable to select property. I can see the outline of the house but cannot select property?

What does this mean?

martingriff · 12-10-2015 4:05pm

I would think there could be 4 possibilities. The third been very unlikely.

1. As all are saying here its a sale is due to the bank want them to sell and they do not want to
2. They might be hoping for someone else to bid and get a bidding war. Had the price of the property come down from its original asking price before you came in I wonder.
3. There could be a few people involved in the selling of the house (such as a divorce) and one want to sell and the others do not.
4. The EA could be getting a commission from selling the house and seeing you want it so badly is trying to make an extra buck.

Either way I would say that you are pulling out.

sillysmiles · 12-10-2015 4:12pm

We had a similar experience where over the course of 4 or 5 weekends there was never an availability to see a particular property - never got to the bidding stage as we never saw it. I strongly suspect in our case it was a divorce/separation issue.

I definitely think if you are getting the run around at this stage it's best to walk away, because if it went sale agreed, there is still a lot of to and for with the EA before everything goes through and is finalised.

delthedriver · 12-10-2015 4:17pm

Best advice, move on and concentrate your energy on another property.

If you get sucked in and sellers are slow to react ,you may miss better opportunities.

Stay positive

Uno my Uno. · 12-10-2015 4:39pm

Walk away and find another property, reluctant sellers are a nightmare to deal with whether it be bank troubles or family issues. even if you somehow managed to go sale agreed you can expect months of frustration and delays as every minor matter is used to put off and jeopardize the sale.

Dr Strange · 12-10-2015 5:07pm

Civil Eng wrote: »

Checked on landdirect.ie map but unable to select property. I can see the outline of the house but cannot select property?

What does this mean?

Came across that problem before with a property I wanted to check. Even my own doesn't come up as clickable and I own it (not the bank

). No idea why some can be checked and others can't.

seamus · 12-10-2015 8:36pm

Civil Eng wrote: »

I suspect it's not total incompetence on the EA's part. Incidentally, if the bank wanted to sell would they not engage the EA directly who would just get on and sell the property?

Yeah, as said, the bank can't sell the property, only the owner can. But the bank can strongarm you by allowing you to walk away from your negative equity, but only if you sell up.
Don't sell up, they bring you to court to repossess. So it's catch-22 for the vendor, but they can play games to delay the bank.
In some cases, the homeowner has an offer on the table to give the bank a lump sum in exchange for a big portion of their mortgage written off. But the bank think they can get more, so the property owner will block and bluster in the hopes that the bank will believe nobody wants the house and give in.

In these cases, the EA probably has some sort of no-lose fee where they will be paid by the vendor either way.

Dr Strange wrote: »

Came across that problem before with a property I wanted to check. Even my own doesn't come up as clickable and I own it (not the bank ). No idea why some can be checked and others can't.

Apparently it's because the landdirect.ie map only shows properties in the land registry, but not the registry of deeds.
I tried to read what the difference was, but I honestly haven't a clue

gaius c · 12-10-2015 9:09pm

Civil Eng wrote: »

Any tips on smoking the EA out?

You've already done all you should.

riclad · 12-10-2015 10:28pm

There are 2 separate systems for recording property transactions:

The registration of title system (Land Registry) which provides a State-guaranteed title to property and
The registration of deeds system (Registry of Deeds) which records the existence of deeds and conveyances affecting property

A title is the ownership of a property and a deed is a written document that affects property.
Both systems are mutually exclusive. Your solicitor will know which of the 2 systems is relevant to your case. Both systems are under the control and management of the Property Registration Authority (PRA), an independent statutory body set up under the Registration of Deeds and Title Act 2006.

If the property is not registered in the Land Registry it may have been dealt with by the Registry of Deeds.

If the house was sold in the last 50 years ,
it should be in the registry of deeds .
as the deeds need to be registered to complete the sale .

should be in one or the other.
They are totally separate.
if a house was a one off self build and not sold to someone, it might not be in the registry of deed,s .

Johnboy177 · 20-10-2015 11:03am

Sounds to me as a retired surveyor that the owner is trying to cut a deal with the bank-they are however pretty slippery to deal with from my own dealings.This could drag on a while might be better to move on

20-10-2015 8:57pm

Civil Eng wrote: »

Checked on landdirect.ie map but unable to select property. I can see the outline of the house but cannot select property?

What does this mean?

This means that its not registered land. This case applies to most urban land and some rural land. Next transaction it will get registered.

Zombie sales can arise from;

bank activity (to pretend to the bank that the vendors are trying to resolve their situation but with no intention of doing so)

Family disputes (where somebody is obliged to sell property and divide it, but the person in posession doesn't want to do it),

Separations (one party refusing to agree to a needed sale to spite the other) and I'm sure many other reasons.

Uno my Uno. · 21-10-2015 3:15am

Separations are the worst, from The experiences of myself and my colleagues the following would be the sort of thing that could be expected.

Spouse A is desperate for a sale but Spouse B will go to any lengths to delay or prevent the sale. Their reasons are their own.

After weeks of offers and counter offers the price is above market value but Spouse B is adamant that the offer is pathetic and insulting, eventually impending financial hardship causes Spouse B to accept, the property goes sale agreed. Everyone instructs a solicitor.

Contracts are issued from Spouse A, spouse B ignores all correspondence for several weeks.

It transpires that the property is unregistered property and a land registry compliant map must be provided by the sellers. Spouse A wants to instruct an engineer and split the cost between the spouses. Spouse B refuses, wants the purchaser to pay for the engineer.

Purchaser (rightly) refuses, sellers must provide as per law soc directive. Spouse B ignores all correspondence for several weeks.

Eventually impending Financial hardship causes Spouse B to agree. Spouse B thinks price quoted by engineer is ridiculous, knows engineer who will do it for half that, insists on arranging quote. Spouse B ignores all correspondence for several weeks.

Tired of waiting Spouse A pays for maps, opinions on Planing compliance etc to be done and provided. Purchaser decides to proceed, signs and returns contracts, is now bound to the sale, the phrase "sure, in for a penny in for a pound" and "we've been waiting this long..." Are used.

Spouse B objects, didn't agree to any of these reports, suggests property should go back on the market as they believe the market has risen since deal was done. Spouse B ignores all correspondence for several weeks.

Five and half months have now passed, purchasers mortgage approval may lapse, everyone desperate to have sale close so they have a place to live/can get paid/move on with their lives. Unexpectedly Spouse B signs contracts and sends "ultimatum" that if sale is not closed within 7 days "it's all off." Purchaser draws down mortgage in anticipation of closing.

It transpires that despite assurances of Spouse B the LPT has not been paid, there are arrears of Several thousand euro on the property. Spouse B goes to Cannes for long weekend, is uncontactable.

Two full weeks after the expiration of Spouse B's deadline, proof of LPT compliance is provided, the sale closes within hours, Spouse B expresses their displeasure that everything took so long, blames solicitors trying to "rack up fees". Purchaser takes the keys, not sure if it is the happiest or worst day of ther life.

Everyone except Spouse B has incurred several thousand euro in increased costs. Solicitors all swear they will never act in such a sale again.

Dr_Bill · 21-10-2015 9:58am

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

Separations are the worst, from The experiences of myself and my colleagues the following would be the sort of thing that could be expected.
<snip>
Solicitors all swear they will never act in such a sale again.

I laughed so hard when I read this but I can understand your pain!

Property Advertised for Sale but appears no intention to sell?!?!?

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