Where can a learner legally practice with no licence?

Bikerman2019 · 16-01-2021 11:03pm #1

Just an open thought. A teen wants to learn to drive needs and needs to practice. Cannot get a learner permit due to covid closure of the relevant offices.

So. Where can said teen go where they can legally practice without their papers being in order.

i.e. Shopping centre car park? Somebodies private yard? Car park of a big factory? etc etc.

Thanks all.

GarIT · 16-01-2021 11:04pm

Private property that isn't accessible to the public or other people in general and that they have permission to use.

Caranica · 16-01-2021 11:05pm

Can't learn to drive without a learner permit except on private land. Farmers' kids always got their licences early because they'd been driving around the farm for years. Car parks etc don't count afaik as the rules of the roads apply on such properties.

Bikerman2019 · 16-01-2021 11:10pm

Interesting. Got a teen who needs to learn quick. Wants to do a college course where they need a licence. Theory test cancelled twice due to covid lockdown. So now no theory test means no permit means cannot get lessons. Then she has to hold the learner licence for X amount of months before a test. Clock is ticking.

The course starts around the summer if she can get on. Licence is a must so trying to find a solution . Looking for ideas where we can take her legally to learn basics of the car.

GarIT · 16-01-2021 11:12pm

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Interesting. Got a teen who needs to learn quick. Wants to do a college course where they need a licence. Theory test cancelled twice due to covid lockdown. So now no theory test means no permit means cannot get lessons. Then she has to hold the learner licence for X amount of months before a test. Clock is ticking.

The course starts around the summer if she can get on. Licence is a must so trying to find a solution . Looking for ideas where we can take her legally to learn basics of the car.

Leinster driving school has their own private track afaik but not sure what the rules and licence requirements are. I think they advertise to teens, used to hand out leaflets to my secondary school.

Mjolnir · 16-01-2021 11:18pm

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Interesting. Got a teen who needs to learn quick. Wants to do a college course where they need a licence. Theory test cancelled twice due to covid lockdown. So now no theory test means no permit means cannot get lessons. Then she has to hold the learner licence for X amount of months before a test. Clock is ticking.

The course starts around the summer if she can get on. Licence is a must so trying to find a solution . Looking for ideas where we can take her legally to learn basics of the car.

As said above only on private property, anywhere the rules of the road/ law applies is a no, no.

Have any family members / friends with land?

You have to hold the permit for 6 months and do 12 edt lessons before you can take a test, there is also a huge backlog that she won't be able to skip so this year would be incredibly doubtful given how things are going.

Its just one of those things unfortunately, the backlog will remain in place for the foreseeable, even assuming she was able to get the permit before June I'd be doubtful she'd get a test by December as people are still waiting since last summer.

Bikerman2019 · 16-01-2021 11:25pm

GarIT wrote: »

Leinster driving school has their own private track afaik but not sure what the rules and licence requirements are. I think they advertise to teens, used to hand out leaflets to my secondary school.

Looked that up, fantastic idea. Got to contact them and see what they say about if she does lessons or whatever on their private area, can they be counted as official once her paperwork is sorted.

Mjolnir wrote: »

As said above only on private property, anywhere the rules of the road/ law applies is a no, no.

Have any family members / friends with land?

You have to hold the permit for 6 months and do 12 edt lessons before you can take a test, there is also a huge backlog that she won't be able to skip so this year would be incredibly doubtful given how things are going.

Its just one of those things unfortunately, the backlog will remain in place for the foreseeable, even assuming she was able to get the permit before June I'd be doubtful she'd get a test by December as people are still waiting since last summer.

I agree completely. I have explained this to her, she knows, but just looking to see if there are any options. I am unsure of what counts as private land. Factory carpark? Shopping centre late at night? etc etc

GarIT · 16-01-2021 11:39pm

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Looked that up, fantastic idea. Got to contact them and see what they say about if she does lessons or whatever on their private area, can they be counted as official once her paperwork is sorted.

I agree completely. I have explained this to her, she knows, but just looking to see if there are any options. I am unsure of what counts as private land. Factory carpark? Shopping centre late at night? etc etc

No a car park doesn't count if there is access to the general public or staff. Maybe if there was a gate that people weren't usually allowed go through and you got permission from the owner it could be argued.

Mjolnir · 16-01-2021 11:41pm

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Looked that up, fantastic idea. Got to contact them and see what they say about if she does lessons or whatever on their private area, can they be counted as official once her paperwork is sorted.

I agree completely. I have explained this to her, she knows, but just looking to see if there are any options. I am unsure of what counts as private land. Factory carpark? Shopping centre late at night? etc etc

No she can't learn to drive in any of those unfortunately

“public place” means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

Thats a definition under the road traffic act.
Its an offense under the act to drive in a public place without a licence, or insurance.
Obviously she can't be insured.

Is it that she needs a licence to get to the course or to actually partake in it?

Mjolnir · 16-01-2021 11:46pm

GarIT wrote: »

Leinster driving school has their own private track afaik but not sure what the rules and licence requirements are. I think they advertise to teens, used to hand out leaflets to my secondary school.

That was a summer camp type thing for i think 14 - 17 year olds. June to aug or sept can't rember but was cancelled last year.

Actually just taught as well op most driving schools and edt providers will be prioritising those with a test date, its a terrible time to be trying to get a licence or learn to drive.

Bikerman2019 · 16-01-2021 11:50pm

Mjolnir wrote: »

No she can't learn to drive in any of those unfortunately

“public place” means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

Thats a definition under the road traffic act.
Its an offense under the act to drive in a public place without a licence, or insurance.
Obviously she can't be insured.

Is it that she needs a licence to get to the course or to actually partake in it?

She tells me that she really wants to do a paramedic course. but course specs say need a licence. I dont think she will manage it, but we got to try.
Thanks everyone for the ideas, that one about leinster driving place is superb.

Bikerman2019 · 16-01-2021 11:51pm

Mjolnir wrote: »

That was a summer camp type thing for i think 14 - 17 year olds. June to aug or sept can't rember but was cancelled last year.

Actually just taught as well op most driving schools and edt providers will be prioritising those with a test date, its a terrible time to be trying to get a licence or learn to drive.

Stupid thing is my brother is a driving instructor but the licence is an issue !

Mjolnir · 16-01-2021 11:54pm

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Stupid thing is my brother is a driving instructor but the licence is an issue !

Ah thats a pain in the hole, is there even a halfway decent person around with an empty field near ya?
Don't suppose he does ibt as well I need to renew my module 5 haha.

It isn't the national ambulance service one is it? Because that requires a c1 licence know someone that did it before doing the training with hse.

ByTheSea2019 · 16-01-2021 11:55pm

Your brother will know better than me but personally I feel I wouldn't have been able to pass before plenty practice driving on real roads at realistic speeds interracting with other road users.

TallGlass2 · 16-01-2021 11:57pm

Bikerman2019 she won't be exempt from the 6 month rule been honest that clock starts once the licence is issued.

Also, as a side note if it's Paramedics generally from what I have seen it's a C/C1 that usually required, with B as a minimum for both applying.

Like if you had a patch to learn in or even a car park, like you'd learn the basics of driving in getting the car to move, sadly the other 80% of driving and been deemed a competent driver is having on the road experience, which I don't think you'd get in a private setting IMO.

The first 20% is generally fairly easy once you get the hang of it, at most it would take a week to learn that maybe 2.

tabby aspreme · 16-01-2021 11:59pm

OP, I'm not sure is this still possible since Brexit, but you could get driver training and a test in the UK in less than a week, and then change the UK licence for an Irish licence, when the Covid situation improves it could be an option

Mjolnir · 17-01-2021 12:01am

TallGlass2 wrote: »

Bikerman2019 she won't be exempt from the 6 month rule been honest that clock starts once the licence is issued.

Also, as a side note if it's Paramedics generally from what I have seen it's a C/C1 that usually required, with B as a minimum for both applying.

Like if you had a patch to learn in or even a car park, like you'd learn the basics of driving in getting the car to move, sadly the other 80% of driving and been deemed a competent driver is having on the road experience, which I don't think you'd get in a private setting IMO.

The first 20% is generally fairly easy once you get the hang of it, at most it would take a week to learn that maybe 2.

100% correct clock starts from the date on the permit, also agree to pass you'd need adequate time on the road if for nothing else to lose some nerves and get used to other driver behaviour.
I could be wrong but don't you need a full be to get a c/c1, person I know who did it had to complete it before the end of the course from what I remember.

Bikerman2019 · 17-01-2021 12:14am

Mjolnir wrote: »

Ah thats a pain in the hole, is there even a halfway decent person around with an empty field near ya?
Don't suppose he does ibt as well I need to renew my module 5 haha.

It isn't the national ambulance service one is it? Because that requires a c1 licence know someone that did it before doing the training with hse.

Yep it is. But she is looking at the options available.

TallGlass2 wrote: »

Bikerman2019 she won't be exempt from the 6 month rule been honest that clock starts once the licence is issued.

Also, as a side note if it's Paramedics generally from what I have seen it's a C/C1 that usually required, with B as a minimum for both applying.

Like if you had a patch to learn in or even a car park, like you'd learn the basics of driving in getting the car to move, sadly the other 80% of driving and been deemed a competent driver is having on the road experience, which I don't think you'd get in a private setting IMO.

The first 20% is generally fairly easy once you get the hang of it, at most it would take a week to learn that maybe 2.

Car is there, we have access to fields but not suitable for a car

This year is another disaster. This afternoon she wanted me to sign her up for a J1, I wouldnt, how could you with covid, flights etc etc.
Thanks everyone, all I can do is try and help her. May look at the UK option, we have connections and places there.

Mjolnir · 17-01-2021 12:24am

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Yep it is. But she is looking at the options available.

Car is there, we have access to fields but not suitable for a car This year is another disaster. This afternoon she wanted me to sign her up for a J1, I wouldnt, how could you with covid, flights etc etc.
Thanks everyone, all I can do is try and help her. May look at the UK option, we have connections and places there.

Have to be a UK citizen/resident for 185 days out of 12 consecutive months and be able to prove it to get a UK one.
Don't blame ya I could do eurasmus/study abroad next year and not a hope especially as we're reporting the some of the highest numbers per capita, doubt we'd be overly welcomed.

If she has her heart set on being a paramedic it'll be a massive let down this year but she'll get there.

Bikerman2019 · 17-01-2021 12:34am

Mjolnir wrote: »

Have to be a UK citizen/resident for 185 days out of 12 consecutive months and be able to prove it to get a UK one.
Don't blame ya I could do eurasmus/study abroad next year and not a hope especially as we're reporting the some of the highest numbers per capita, doubt we'd be overly welcomed.

If she has her heart set on being a paramedic it'll be a massive let down this year but she'll get there.

Absolutely! I really think she should do a PLC. Would be a great start and allow her to take her tiem.

Mjolnir · 17-01-2021 12:38am

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Absolutely! I really think she should do a PLC. Would be a great start and allow her to take her tiem.

100% will broaden her horizons, give her something to do for an academic year, get her used to independent study outside of the secondary school system and I'd doubt that anyone her age will be able to get in with the lack of a licence anyway.

TallGlass2 · 17-01-2021 12:53am

Well, you could go over the basics of the car with her as in engine bay, inside the car, secondary controls, you could drive tell her what your doing etc..

Have her sit in driver seat and go up and down the gears etc..

Even test her on what the tester would ask on the day around these areas?

Bikerman2019 · 17-01-2021 1:01am

Yep. It's a disappointment in general but that is life at present. At least we are healthy.

Thanks all.

longgonesilver · 17-01-2021 1:47am

http://www.nationalambulanceservice.ie/nascollege/Student-Paramedic/

Is this the course? It states C1 license.

Several feeder courses are mentioned down the page.

There is a possibility that the licence requirements might be waived for applicants as very few LC candidates will have been able to passs their test for 18 months by next August/September.

Are you sure that they take applicants straight out of school? Not many school leavers will have a C1 licence. It is also a job that requires a lot of maturity, not saying your daughter wont be able but a bit of relevant experience will help.

Tests,NDLS appointments and maybe theory tests are being reserved for essential workers. if your daughter had an essential job she might be prioritised.

A short enough length of private driveway can do to learn the basics of driving. their is not a lot extra to be learned going past second gear. Takeoff and reversing are possibly the hardest things to teach and learn. It is actually very hard to learn to change gears in a field, the car looses momentum way faster than on a hard surface.

vurstflavor · 17-01-2021 2:52am

You can buy computer programs that teach you to drive

GT89 · 17-01-2021 2:56am

No harm practising in car parks or the likes really okay might not technically be legal but if you use a bit of common sense you shouln't run into too much bother. Try places like industrial estates at weekends their generally fairly quiet.

Marcusm · 17-01-2021 1:24pm

tabby aspreme wrote: »

OP, I'm not sure is this still possible since Brexit, but you could get driver training and a test in the UK in less than a week, and then change the UK licence for an Irish licence, when the Covid situation improves it could be an option

It wasn’t possible pre Brexit as applying for a U.K. permit requires a minimum of 6 months U.K. continuing residency subjects serious penalties for a false declaration. The same declaration must be repeated on the date of (each) test and in applying for a full licence.

Marcusm · 17-01-2021 1:27pm

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Absolutely! I really think she should do a PLC. Would be a great start and allow her to take her tiem.

That makes sense. The time delay in not issuing the permit is frustrating. It’s a newly built system and should be capable of being operated from home by NDLS staff but I’ll guess it is not.

Daveq · 17-01-2021 1:39pm

Depending on where you are in the country Mondello?

https://mondellopark.ie/early-drive/

Get her some behind the wheel experience and a step ahead before the permit and might help her feel things are still moving in the right direction despite this year's setback.

Mjolnir · 17-01-2021 1:43pm

Marcusm wrote: »

That makes sense. The time delay in not issuing the permit is frustrating. It’s a newly built system and should be capable of being operated from home by NDLS staff but I’ll guess it is not.

You have to go to the office for all first licences and ndls staff are working from the centres.
Both irrelevant as ops daughter can't get the theory test done so there's no delay in issuing a permit as she's not entitled to one.

tabby aspreme · 17-01-2021 1:43pm

Marcusm wrote: »

It wasn’t possible pre Brexit as applying for a U.K. permit requires a minimum of 6 months U.K. continuing residency subjects serious penalties for a false declaration. The same declaration must be repeated on the date of (each) test and in applying for a full licence.

Two people I know did it, they were asked about residency, gave their relatives address, but it was not checked

K.Flyer · 17-01-2021 1:48pm

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Just an open thought. A teen wants to learn to drive needs and needs to practice. Cannot get a learner permit due to covid closure of the relevant offices.

So. Where can said teen go where they can legally practice without their papers being in order.

i.e. Shopping centre car park? Somebodies private yard? Car park of a big factory? etc etc.

Thanks all.

She can safely learn how to drive and car control on private property here, but check their site for details under current Covid restrictions.

https://www.leinsterdrivingcampus.ie/

Mjolnir · 17-01-2021 1:54pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

She can safely learn how to drive and car control on private property here, but check their site for details under current Covid restrictions.

https://www.leinsterdrivingcampus.ie/

Been mentioned, was closed last summer due to covid for the underage programme.

Op just taught, I read that they are rolling out at home theory test to those eligible to try clear the back log might be something to look into.

Marcusm · 17-01-2021 2:05pm

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Two people I know did it, they were asked about residency, gave their relatives address, but it was not checked

You know people who like to commit multiple criminal offences the maximum penalty for which is 10 years imprisonment under the Fraud Act 2006 which might influence whether the OP wants their minor child to pursue that course of action.

TallGlass2 · 17-01-2021 10:59pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

She can safely learn how to drive and car control on private property here, but check their site for details under current Covid restrictions.

https://www.leinsterdrivingcampus.ie/

Must say never heard of it, but that is pretty cool.

Would have much rather have done my IBT there than on the main road!

Mjolnir · 17-01-2021 11:21pm

TallGlass2 wrote: »

Must say never heard of it, but that is pretty cool.

Would have much rather have done my IBT there than on the main road!

There's a reason its done on the road otherwise how can the instructor know you can ride on an actual road in day to day conditions that can't be simulated.
The fact you'd prefer it is irrelevant its on the road the same way as a car driving lesson is on the road and is in itself a test of your capabilities as a new rider.
Not capable not signed off, capable signed off pretty simple.

Mrs OBumble · 17-01-2021 11:28pm

Off topic from the legal issue - but can you find any evidence that kids direct from school are actually accepted into a paramedic course, which actually leads to jobs? I know there are some private courses, not sure what the employment prospects from them are though.

Most people get significant volunteer experience (Order of Malta or similar) before getting accepted as student paramedics, AFAIK.

Bikerman2019 · 17-01-2021 11:29pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Off topic from the legal issue - but can you find any evidence that kids direct from school are actually accepted into a paramedic course, which actually leads to jobs? I know there are some private courses, not sure what the employment prospects from them are though.

Most people get significant volunteer experience (Order of Malta or similar) before getting accepted as student paramedics, AFAIK.

Got that end sorted

And the OMAC are not the only ones.

Where can a learner legally practice with no licence?

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