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Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭bayern


    something will have to give eventually with Crowley/Healy and Carbery.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Ryan Whispering Bassoon


    bayern wrote: »
    something will have to give eventually with Crowley/Healy and Carbery.

    Healy 10
    Crowley 12
    Carvery 15 if he gets healthy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭bayern


    Healy 10
    Crowley 12
    Carvery 15 if he gets healthy

    easy to say that on paper..

    if Carbery wanted to play 15 he'd still play for Leinster.

    Crowley is very intent on playing 10 also by all accounts.

    Now if Carbery fails to recover and has to retire, Munster should be able to balance gametime between Crowley/Healy at 10 assuming they move JJ on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Flannery (Jake) also there!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Crowley turned 21 on Wednesday. He's in the first year of the academy. There's hardly any panic with him.

    Joey Carbery 2022
    JJ Hanrahan 2021

    Jack Crowley Year 1
    Jake Flannery Year 2
    Ben Healy Year 3

    Assuming the money works out, I think JJ gets a one year renewal and Healy gets a 2-3 year senior deal. Flannery and Crowley remain in the academy.
    If Carbery returns, great. If not, well there's no change to who is available currently. In 2022 there would be plenty wiggle room to release Carbery and/or JJ and move Flannery and/or Crowley to the seniors.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭bayern


    Crowley turned 20 on Wednesday. He's in the first year of the academy. There's hardly any panic with him.

    21.
    something will have to give eventually with Crowley/Healy and Carbery.

    I said eventually, if he is as good as ROG thinks and looked last season for irish 20's, he won't be in the academy long.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,367 ✭✭✭✭phog


    bayern wrote: »
    21.



    I said eventually, if he is as good as ROG thinks and looked last season for irish 20's, he won't be in the academy long.

    I think you're looking to create a issue.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,626 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    bayern wrote: »
    something will have to give eventually with Crowley/Healy and Carbery.

    Na. We've only 2 senior 10's and unfortunately there's a big injury question mark over one of them. Healy will be given a senior deal this year and they're all still plenty young.

    Funny to see things go full circle on here tho, if the issue now is Munster developing too many players.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,367 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I think this "issue" stems from ROG's article on the Outhalf position in Munster and that he made a play for Crowley to head to France.

    All good news for Munster if everyone was fit but we know ourselves there were games where Rory was covering the outhalf position


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    We can always just poach a Leinster player anyway. Always good to have that option in hand.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    9. Craig Casey, 10. Conor Murray might be the best combination


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    I think it's about time to start a Munster shopping trip in Dublin thread.

    Who do we want?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,626 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think it's about time to start a Munster shopping trip in Dublin thread.

    Who do we want?

    You should be saving this for the build-up thread, Thomond!

    Altho, it's a bit of a nothing game for Munster as we'll still be top of our conference regardless, much bigger game for Leinster. We should probably just send the kids.

    (I think I got that about right?).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Won’t be long before Leinster come cap in hand looking for an outhalf.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,233 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    We can always just poach a Leinster player anyway. Always good to have that option in hand.

    Can you look after the next one a bit better please?

    This is why we can't have nice things.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭The Inbetween is mine


    Can you look after the next one a bit better please?

    This is why we can't have nice things.

    Nothing wrong with Nick McCarthy...besides him not being very good I guess


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭bayern


    Nothing wrong with Nick McCarthy...besides him not being very good I guess

    Ben Murphy is the last leinster player signed by Munster.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,233 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Nothing wrong with Nick McCarthy...besides him not being very good I guess

    Sure he'd hardly be playing for Munster if he was very good, am I right?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭The Inbetween is mine


    Sure he'd hardly be playing for Munster if he was very good, am I right?

    You're right, he's not playing


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I can certainly see why ROG would look to sign him. He's a talented bloke and his running game would work well on the firmer ground of France than in the sodden pitches of Ireland.

    I do feel that, similar to the Leinster back row situation, something has to give in Munster with their outhalves. It might not be Carbery but I do feel that one of the options is going to have to depart in the next 18 months. Jake Flannery was a highly rated player. People forget that he was mostly a full back at U20 level yet still got the nod ahead of Ben Healy at 10 in the JWC when Harry Byrne was injured.

    All three of Crowley, Flannery and Healy are now 21 so there's very little between them in terms of profile. Healy will certainly move to a senior deal this summer. Flannery will go into year 3 and Crowley into year 2 of the academy respectively. Flannery is going to be playing for a contract next year and, if he isn't showing up too well, I can see him being cut and Crowley being given the nod.

    Even at that, Crowley has a big waiting list ahead of him with 3 established senior outhalves already in the squad (based on the optimistic assumption that Joey Carbery remains fit for any sustained period). I think that Munster will probably continue to look at Crowley as a 12 to try and accommodate him within the squad but they'll need to focus on that fairly intensely if they want him to make it there. This year has been a near write off in terms of development for guys if they aren't in the senior squad with so little rugby being played in the last 12 months.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    I wouldn’t blame him if he went, two or three years in France would have earned him a handy few pounds, given him great experience and gotten him game time under ROG, who is a coach that could being a player like him on massively.

    It’s hard to see how much opportunity he will get in the next two / three years with both OH’s ahead of him playing well and the one with the most potential coming back to the field in the next 12 months hopefully.

    You have to respect his decision and dedication and hope that it will be rewarded


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Ryan Whispering Bassoon


    Joeys a big if anyway and if crowley comes through then I'd imagine jj is gone. As far as I'm aware flannerys been playing mostly 15 and he was a 15 at u20s until I think byrne and healy got hurt. Essentially in three years time if we have crowley/healy competing at out half and flannery at 15 but able to fill.in at out half thats ideal. I do t see where the issue is to be honest


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Ryan Whispering Bassoon


    I wouldn’t blame him if he went, two or three years in France would have earned him a handy few pounds, given him great experience and gotten him game time under ROG, who is a coach that could being a player like him on massively.

    It’s hard to see how much opportunity he will get in the next two / three years with both OH’s ahead of him playing well and the one with the most potential coming back to the field in the next 12 months hopefully.

    You have to respect his decision and dedication and hope that it will be rewarded

    Didn't work out great for jj. I'd argue irish clubs look after their young players better. In England and france there's a bit of a throw them in the deep end and see if they float attitude I think


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,233 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Given Carbery's injuries and the usual attrition rate of academy prospects, if Munster end up with one top-level outhalf in two or three years, they'll have done well. I wouldn't be stressing about having too many at all yet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Didn't work out great for jj. I'd argue irish clubs look after their young players better. In England and france there's a bit of a throw them in the deep end and see if they float attitude I think

    It hasn’t done Bill Johnston much good either, he went to ulster with the opportunity of Heineken cup rugby and now is firmly behind two players that he’s not going to unseat anything soon, but some players need to be put into the deep end. It possible that he is saying give it two years here and If he’s not getting time then he will go. Maybe JJ’s future is a factor in his decision, that in 12/24 months he will be third choice behind Carbery and Healy with Carbery away at times on Irish duty.


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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Ryan Whispering Bassoon


    It hasn’t done Bill Johnston much good either, he went to ulster with the opportunity of Heineken cup rugby and now is firmly behind two players that he’s not going to unseat anything soon, but some players need to be put into the deep end. It possible that he is saying give it two years here and If he’s not getting time then he will go. Maybe JJ’s future is a factor in his decision, that in 12/24 months he will be third choice behind Carbery and Healy with Carbery away at times on Irish duty.

    If healy and crowley become the outhalves that people are projecting them as jj won't have a choice the contract won't be there for him. Big if mind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,823 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Given Carbery's injuries and the usual attrition rate of academy prospects, if Munster end up with one top-level outhalf in two or three years, they'll have done well. I wouldn't be stressing about having too many at all yet.

    Ah yeah, think it would be a good problem to have but it's a case of waiting to see if it comes to that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭moritz1234


    2022
    It'll be Healy and Crowley fighting it out for the No.10
    JJ will be third choice
    Unfortunately I don't see Carbery making it back


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    moritz1234 wrote: »
    2022
    It'll be Healy and Crowley fighting it out for the No.10
    JJ will be third choice
    Unfortunately I don't see Carbery making it back



    PM the euro millions numbers next time you look into that crystal ball. Sound.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,157 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Cian Tracey has an article on hurling v rugby in Limerick and how its affecting Munster.
    Anyone read it? Thoughts?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭The Inbetween is mine


    Cian Tracey has an article on hurling v rugby in Limerick and how its affecting Munster.
    Anyone read it? Thoughts?

    Pen never refused ink


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,157 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Pen never refused ink

    Would you not agree with a lot of what's been written in the article?
    The clubs have to change how they operate. Too many people support the province and they dont have to attend games to do that and can do so from their front rooms and are not supporting clubs, schools like they used to.

    The numbers dropping off from u18.5 club level and schools senior u19 level to under 20 and adult grades is very high and Munster havent done anywhere near enough to address that


  • Registered Users Posts: 780 ✭✭✭Kirk Van Houten


    Cian Tracey has an article on hurling v rugby in Limerick and how its affecting Munster.
    Anyone read it? Thoughts?

    Clickbait gonna clickbait innit......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,157 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Clickbait gonna clickbait innit......

    A lot of what he's written is fair and i think he probably should have went further on some issues.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,194 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Would you not agree with a lot of what's been written in the article?
    The clubs have to change how they operate. Too many people support the province and they dont have to attend games to do that and can do so from their front rooms and are not supporting clubs, schools like they used to.

    The numbers dropping off from u18.5 club level and schools senior u19 level to under 20 and adult grades is very high and Munster havent done anywhere near enough to address that
    What has people not going to club games in the AIL got to do with playing numbers or the fall off after 18?

    Would it not have more to do with things like schools not being fee paying so not having the resources of the likes of the Cork schools and Rockwell? Or the fact that non playing schools players aren't allowed to turn out for their clubs?

    And who ever supported schools other than their students?

    Yes the provincal authorities need to do more, but it's got nothing to do with attendences at matches.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,157 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    What has people not going to club games in the AIL got to do with playing numbers or the fall off in numbers after 18?

    Would it not have more to do with things like schools not being fee paying so not having the resources of the likes of the Cork schools and Rockwell? Or the fact that non playing schools players aren't allowed to turn out for their clubs?

    And who ever supported schools other than their students?
    Schools not being fee paying has little to do with reduction in numbers coming through.
    There was lots coming through years ago to play to higher levels and the schools fee's status hasnt changed in that time.

    Go to schools games and you will see plenty who didnt attend or havent attended the school watching...
    If young players parents are involved far more in a club through supporting the clubs adult sides and the kids are attending games far more it is easier to keep them involved if you tie in getting more games for them to play as well.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,194 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Schools not being fee paying has little to do with reduction in numbers coming through.
    There was lots coming through years ago to play to higher levels and the schools fee's status hasnt changed in that time.

    Go to schools games and you will see plenty who didnt attend or havent attended the school watching...
    If young players parents are involved far more in a club through supporting the clubs adult sides and the kids are attending games far more it is easier to keep them involved if you tie in getting more games for them to play as well.
    But underage numbers aren't the issue. There a plenty of kids playing underage. As you said yourself, it's players dropping out after 18. Parents not being on the side line is not why players are dropping out at that age.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,157 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    But underage numbers aren't the issue. There a plenty of kids playing underage. As you said yourself, it's players dropping out after 18. Parents not being on the side line is not why players are dropping out at that age.
    There is still loads of issues with age grade that arent helping the pro game/adult club game.
    Parents not being involved in clubs beyond simply taking their kids to and from training isnt helping the sport. If you get them more involved in the club then it can help the clubs more.
    Changing the 20s structures needs to happen. What would you propose about fixing the issues at 18s/20s?
    There is issues with underage numbers and how its being ran and how players are progressing through the development systems and into 18s/20s


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Dave Kilcoyne and Jack O’Donoghue have both returned to training after missing last week’s win over Connacht due to minor knocks.

    Jean Kleyn has completed his return to play protocols and Mike Haley is set to complete his return to play protocols today.

    Unavailable: Keynan Knox (knee), Matt Gallagher (shoulder), RG Snyman (knee), Neil Cronin (knee), Joey Carbery (ankle).

    https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/01/18/squad-update-munster-prepare-for-leinster-at-thomond-2/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Is Conway available again ?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Andrew Brace getting the whistle for Saturday.

    I was hoping for former Connacht scrum-half Frank Murphy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,367 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Andrew Brace getting the whistle for Saturday.

    I was hoping for former Connacht scrum-half Frank Murphy.

    I'm glad your wish was not granted


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,157 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Andrew Brace getting the whistle for Saturday.

    I was hoping for former Connacht scrum-half Frank Murphy.

    Assistant Referees: Sean Gallagher, Eoghan Cross
    TMO: Joy Neville


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,157 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    phog wrote: »
    I'm glad your wish was not granted

    Who would you have liked as ref?


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,838 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Who would you have liked as ref?

    Steve Walsh.... that hair !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,367 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Who would you have liked as ref?

    Some things never change


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,157 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    phog wrote: »
    Some things never change
    How ironic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,157 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    phog wrote: »
    Some things never change
    How ironic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,367 ✭✭✭✭phog


    How ironic.

    You can say that again :pac::D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,157 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    phog wrote: »
    You can say that again :pac::D

    How many refs do you actually not have a problem with?
    You never dont have a gripe and its primarily when your side loses.
    You think you know what poor refereeing is so what would you like done to change/improve refereeing performances?


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