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Frustrated Sibling
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12-02-2021 9:16pm#1I would love some advice on a situation with my youngest sister. I am the eldest of 3 sisters. The issue as i see it is with the youngest (5 yrs younger than me). I suppose she has always fallen into the stereotypical role as the youngest. Rebellious, going out with guys who dont treat her right (inc a traveller at one stage yrs ago), drinking, threatening suicide. To be fair she was spoilt and my parents were not as strict on her as on me and my other sis. She is quite a strong character, has always been v opinionated, lots of drama surrounds her life.
On the plus side she has a good heart and would be there for me in crisis. The last 10 years or so has been particularly a rollercoaster, she ended up with someone who has never worked and gets in trouble with the police, issues with gambling etc. They had 2 gorgeous kids of which over the years he has come and gone out of their lives, takes no real responsibility for them in any regard whether its financially or practically.
My sis works part time but is always broke and depressed (is on anti depressants) and has had some serious health issues over the years of which she wont address. (She says theres no one to help if she needs to go to hosp). Obvs me and my other sis would help but we both work fulltime but she knows she cant rely on her other half.
The latest shenanigans is he fecked off 2 days before xmas on a bender and wasnt there to help with 'santa' xmas eve and be there for the kids on xmas morning. It ruined xmas day for them as it was the 1st xmas they were spending together and was ruined because of him. This behaviour is just an example. Another time he got arrested the day his newly born son was due to leave hosp. Of course when anything like this happens its all hands on deck for us (dad, me and other sis) to pick up the mess that is constantly created. My youngest sis had moved into her own apt years ago when the kids were babies but because she wasnt getting the financial help from her partner, she had to move back to dad and has been there ever since. Its literally been dad (who is in his 70s now) picking up the slack for my sis and her other half, financially and practically. The issue is all of this has really impacted on the family dynamic. My middle sis has got to the stage where she cant deal with the constant drama and keeps her distance and she says the fact that youngest sis never seems to learn, is sinking more into depression and by putting up with how her other half treats her is like watching a car crash. I have to say im finding it also v frustrating as my sis doesnt try to better herself (getting her own place), becoming more independent etc.
She insists shes helping dad by living at home but he absolutely doesnt need any practical help and as i see it can only be stressed over the constant drama. He gets annoyed over the situation but feels sorry for her and kids and is stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have gone between not wanting to leave her on her own to deal with her situation but i am getting increasingly frustrated as it is like going around in circles, she never seems to learn and things only seem to be getting worse. What would you do in my situation.0
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Your sister has no reason to change or take responsibility because at least of you will always jump in and safe the day.
Tbh I am surprised for how long you have all been involved in fixing her mistakes and I am not surprised that you are tired of it. You might want to involve social services at this stage if you are seriously worried about the children. That doesn’t mean that you can’t help her/ them it’s quite obvious that the approach you have all taken so far hasn’t worked.0 -
My advise would be to try being a better role model as a big sister. Your post bizarrely singles out one of her former exes as a traveller. I dont know any other minority group where this would be acceptable to do in this day and age. If thats the sort of ignorant and judgemental attitude she grew up surrounded with it probably stands to her character that she didn't become similarly intolerant.0
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You need to have a frank and open discussion with her. As the poster above said she has no reason to change so why would she. You need to sit her down and say “ We (you and your other sister) love and care for you and the kids but this cannot go on, it’s causing too much stress in our lives and you need to sort out your life as it’s causing stress within the family”. It might be a touchy subject but who will inherit the family home when your father passes on? Is she intending to live there forever? I presume the house will be left to all of you? It seems a bit extreme to be talking about inheritance but at some point you will need to talk about it and what her plans are. It’s a case of tough love, you can’t keep bailing her out every time her dose of a partner does a runner, that isn’t sustainable. I’d let her know that if the situation occurs again you won’t be available to bail her out.0
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Your sister is a depressed, suicidal, troubled person who needs help and support. I would imagine there is a deeper issue at play here. Rather than passing judgement, I would try get to the root of this.0
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I'm probably going to sound like a harsh cow here, but she's not your problem. All of you, dad included, needs to stop bailing her out. She never had to learn because someone else would sort it out for her. Stop getting involved.
My sister moved back home temporarily six years ago after a divorce, and she's still there today. No notion of moving out (or doing anything else with herself, but sin scéal eile), although at least there are no kids to worry about.
I'd see it as a conversation your dad needs to have with her about future plans. I can't even move a dog into my own apartment without clearing it with the management committee... I can't understand how someone with kids can just rock up into someone's house, and assume that person will be ok with kids running around the place without an end date in sight. (even if they are family).0 -
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Thank you for your responses.
I suppose we've all had numerous chats with her over the years but she does this thing of then turning it around on us and insisting were not supporting her which is when i question myself. But it is ridiculous as were not the bad guys here, her other half isnt either as he has always been a scumbag. Its her insistence that we have to accept his behaviour and her choice to keep him around and the negative effects it has on the family, most importantly the kids. I feel sorry for dad, mam passed away years ago so is clueless with this stuff. I know he feels so sorry for her but does not see how he enables her. I told him he should think about when he is not around to look after her, so should be helping her now to sort her life out not keeping his head in the sand. She absolutely loves those kids and is a great mother but is going down a self destructive road which seems to conflict this (she ended up drink driving at xmas which she has never done before but it horrified us at the thought of the consequences. I didn't make a big deal about it with her as she was so upset over it but my other sis is still disgusted over it).
Apologies if i offended anyone over the traveller comment, ive had mostly negative experiences with them and my sisters experience with this guy was no different but i know not all of them are the same. Its less about intolerance and more about experience.
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My sense is that she isn't your responsibility, and people will be as dysfunctional as those around them facilitate. She has no incentive to change so why would she. It's sounds like she isn't without her problems but you aren't a professional therapist and neither is your elderly father. I don't think you are being judgemental at all and what I got from your post was more statements of fact than judgement.
Have you tried an intervention, maybe with a professional on side?0 -
My sense is that she isn't your responsibility, and people will be as dysfunctional as those around them facilitate. She has no incentive to change so why would she. It's sounds like she isn't without her problems but you aren't a professional therapist and neither is your elderly father. I don't think you are being judgemental at all and what I got from your post was more statements of fact than judgement.
Thank you for that. I know shes not my responsibility but as someone who loves her i really want to help in the best way i can without it affecting my own mental wellbeing.
She has always suffered with low self esteem and has had counselling over the years but not a whole lot changes. I suppose i always think that you should want to help yourself otherwise we would be just forcing her and i dont really want that, she doesnt see she needs help which is half the issue. I might bring it up with her when we next have a chat and see what she says anyway.0 -
I suppose we've all had numerous chats with her over the years but she does this thing of then turning it around on us and insisting were not supporting her
So, I would see this as a big flashing red manipulation flag. Piling the pressure on all of you til she gets whatever she wants. Sometimes you have to let someone learn the hard way. You can be the most kindest sister in the world and she would still take the piss.
It’s unfortunate that she doesn’t seem to be in a place where she directs that energy towards fixing her health & other problems, but she has made it clear that she doesn’t want to change the situations with the boyfriend etc. That’s been *her* boundary all this time and she’s sticking to it pretty well.
She’s been with him 10 years now, so there’s no point rehashing it, she knows what you all think of him.
The healthiest thing, IMHO, is to figure out your own boundaries and be consistent about it.0 -
LimeFruitGum wrote: »So, I would see this as a big flashing red manipulation flag. Piling the pressure on all of you til she gets whatever she wants. Sometimes you have to let someone learn the hard way. You can be the most kindest sister in the world and she would still take the piss.
It’s unfortunate that she doesn’t seem to be in a place where she directs that energy towards fixing her health & other problems, but she has made it clear that she doesn’t want to change the situations with the boyfriend etc. That’s been *her* boundary all this time and she’s sticking to it pretty well.
She’s been with him 10 years now, so there’s no point rehashing it, she knows what you all think of him.
The healthiest thing, IMHO, is to figure out your own boundaries and be consistent about it.
Exactly. We always say if she put half the amount of the energy she uses on the negative aspects of her life into changing her life for the better, she wouldnt be in this position. It just frustrates me seeing her so unhappy but this advice of putting boundaries in place is probably the stance i've been taking lately. Thank you for this.0 -
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LimeFruitGum wrote: »I'm probably going to sound like a harsh cow here, but she's not your problem. All of you, dad included, needs to stop bailing her out. She never had to learn because someone else would sort it out for her. Stop getting involved.
My sister moved back home temporarily six years ago after a divorce, and she's still there today. No notion of moving out (or doing anything else with herself, but sin scéal eile), although at least there are no kids to worry about.
I'd see it as a conversation your dad needs to have with her about future plans. I can't even move a dog into my own apartment without clearing it with the management committee... I can't understand how someone with kids can just rock up into someone's house, and assume that person will be ok with kids running around the place without an end date in sight. (even if they are family).
I don't think you sound harsh at all. As frustrating as it is some people in life just dont take responsibility for their life and the choices they make. We all need a dig out at times (i moved back home for a short period myself, no kids). My sis needs to take control and really think about what plans she needs to make this happen. Unfortunately shes at the stage she thinks my dad is better of with her there, noisy kids (and half the neighbourhood coming in and out included obvs pre covid times).0 -
First thing that struck me about your last post is “sounds like she’s never grown up”.
I know none of you want to be mean to her, but god she sounds like she thinks she’s doing your Dad a favour - when she’s more probably stressing him out, removing his ability to have a peaceful life, and costing him money. It’s not fair on him. I think he has to be the one to lay down the boundaries thought. Like she can stay until x date, but he’ll be expecting her to move after that. How would he feel about selling up and downsizing? It’s not fair for a man of his age (or anyone really) to have to cope with her drama.
You sis who is disgusted with her re drunk driving is right. You are letting her have yet another free pass by smoothing it over.
I know it’s a hard situation. But you need to stop being ‘nice’ about her situation. She’s impacting everyone around her with her behaviour - and changing nothing because there’s no consequences.0 -
First thing that struck me about your last post is “sounds like she’s never grown up”.
I know none of you want to be mean to her, but god she sounds like she thinks she’s doing your Dad a favour - when she’s more probably stressing him out, removing his ability to have a peaceful life, and costing him money. It’s not fair on him. I think he has to be the one to lay down the boundaries thought. Like she can stay until x date, but he’ll be expecting her to move after that. How would he feel about selling up and downsizing? It’s not fair for a man of his age (or anyone really) to have to cope with her drama.
You sis who is disgusted with her re drunk driving is right. You are letting her have yet another free pass by smoothing it over.
I know it’s a hard situation. But you need to stop being ‘nice’ about her situation. She’s impacting everyone around her with her behaviour - and changing nothing because there’s no consequences.
Totally agree on all counts. She has not grown up unfortunately. Absolutely she thinks shes doing my dad a favour but he is not nearly at a stage where he needs help but is unfortunately enabling her by telling her he cant sleep without her in the house etc. My sis and i have spoken to him to ask him to encourage her to move on for the kids sake (more room etc). He is listening to her too much and is now saying we should be supporting her not giving out to her. Its just ridiculous really and no talking to him so im just going to leave them too it. Going around in circles. Its just frustrating as it feels there will be a mess left behind when dad isn't around to pick up the pieces.
Thank you for your input.0 -
Does your sister work? If not - couldn’t she apply for social welfare and move out of your dads hair? That is assuming it is a trouble for him, he may like the company during these covid times. But he shouldn’t be supporting her financially, she needs social welfare if she won’t work.
I assume she has also tried the legal route as the kids father is obliged to pay maintenance.
With people who have her behaviours and traits they never change when everybody around them keeps enabling them and picking up the pieces - so expect this to continue until you and your family change your behaviour towards her - as somebody else said ‘tough love’. It’s the kindest thing.
She is very lucky to have family that clearly love her by the way, and I know it’s hard not to keep helping.0 -
YellowLead wrote: »Does your sister work? If not - couldn’t she apply for social welfare and move out of your dads hair? That is assuming it is a trouble for him, he may like the company during these covid times. But he shouldn’t be supporting her financially, she needs social welfare if she won’t work.
I assume she has also tried the legal route as the kids father is obliged to pay maintenance.
With people who have her behaviours and traits they never change when everybody around them keeps enabling them and picking up the pieces - so expect this to continue until you and your family change your behaviour towards her - as somebody else said ‘tough love’. It’s the kindest thing.
She is very lucky to have family that clearly love her by the way, and I know it’s hard not to keep helping.
She does work part time, and is on the list for a house but has no motivation to push for it plus i know shes terrified of having to be financially independent but as i keep telling her, we will be there for her, esp dad so she shouldnt be afraid. Her OH does pay but he doesnt work so between the jigs and reels she ends up supporting him financially at times, its crazy. We have suggested she work full time and he minds the kids or that he should get full time work but he has no interest, he just adds nothing but stress to her life. I know dad likes having her and kids around but i also know he would be delighted if she was to get her own place and be independent like he encouraged me and my sis to be. He just sees how shes struggling mentally and doesnt want to make it worse. But he also doesnt see how much of a bigger hole he is creating by not putting his foot down, and is as you say 'enabling' the behaviour. We do love her and the kids which makes it harder sometimes.
Thank you for that!0 -
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I don't think continuing to tell her she has to move out is the way to go at the moment. I think moving out is a long way off for her. For the moment, reinforcing that she has a support network around her seems like the way to go and she can build from there.
Maybe she thinks she has to stay in a relationship with the boyfriend in order to get whatever morsel of support he decides the throw her way? Whereas the opposite is the case. She can seek to have issues like maintenance for the children and access formalised legally.
It sounds like she can't see the wood for the trees at the moment and you've all been patient with her. But if she's working part time and has 2 children she's not going to be able to move out and pressing it is just adding to the strain, which is perhaps why she's (wrongly) lashing out.
As I say reinforcing the support network, seems to be the only way to go for now so when she is offered a house she has the confidence to make the move.0 -
Hannibal_Smith wrote: »I don't think continuing to tell her she has to move out is the way to go at the moment. I think moving out is a long way off for her. For the moment, reinforcing that she has a support network around her seems like the way to go and she can build from there.
Maybe she thinks she has to stay in a relationship with the boyfriend in order to get whatever morsel of support he decides the throw her way? Whereas the opposite is the case. She can seek to have issues like maintenance for the children and access formalised legally.
It sounds like she can't see the wood for the trees at the moment and you've all been patient with her. But if she's working part time and has 2 children she's not going to be able to move out and pressing it is just adding to the strain, which is perhaps why she's (wrongly) lashing out.
As I say reinforcing the support network, seems to be the only way to go for now so when she is offered a house she has the confidence to make the move.
Thanks for that. Yep she works in retail so with covid its not the time to be moving out. I suppose i feel its something she should be working towards as opposed to being forced out tomorrow. Im thinking the longer she leaves it, potentially the harder it will be for her but i fear that ship has sailed either way. No she absolutely cant see the wood for the trees and takes the scraps he throws which is so sad because i know she deserves better. Shes tried to separate from him before but then he refuses to help at all with the kids so she struggles to get to work and while we have helped in the past, we have full time jobs. I know the kids wont be kids forever so she will have more options and flexibility but she does love him unfortunately so thats the other side of it.
Thanks for your feedback!0
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