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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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    #2282
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    storker wrote: »
    Trying going the extra mile and getting information that is not only uncensored, but is also correct (this is actually the crucial bit).

    "Uncensored" does not mean "accurate".

    So tell me what makes you think the mainstream media are accurate


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    #2283
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    GT89 wrote: »
    So tell me what makes you think the mainstream media are accurate

    What exactly is your point here?


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    #2284
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    lucernarian wrote: »
    What exactly is your point here?
    I believe it's something along the lines of "you can't trust the mainstream media cause they make profit. But you can trust random cranks off YouTube and bitchute who are also making a mint."


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    #2285
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    PintOfView wrote: »
    Suppose we did have a real virus, that was as dangerous as some people say Covid is, what measures would you suggest to help suppress it?

    Or would you just let it run, and kill lots of people?

    I would take Swedish approach if that's the case. Allow businesses to remain open with some restrictions on crowds but not closing businesses and making people wear masks.

    If it was something as deadly as Ebola then I'd consider harsher measures.


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    #2286
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    GT89 wrote: »
    I would take Swedish approach if that's the case. Allow businesses to remain open with some restrictions on crowds but not closing businesses and making people wear masks.

    If it was something as deadly as Ebola then I'd consider harsher measures.
    This is ridiculous. The population mostly acted off advice rather than rules but the evidence suggests Sweden experienced severe economic turmoil and unemployment. I would question why your issue is with wearing masks also.

    Edit: ebola has symptomatic-only transmission, it's a lot easier to deal with outbreaks that way.


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    #2287
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    King Mob wrote: »
    I believe it's something along the lines of "you can't trust the mainstream media cause they make profit. But you can trust random cranks off YouTube and bitchute who are also making a mint."

    I'd trust "random cranks on YouTube and bitchute" before I'd trust the MSM. That doesn't mean I trust everyone on bitchute or youtube.


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    #2288
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    GT89 wrote: »
    I would take Swedish approach if that's the case. Allow businesses to remain open with some restrictions on crowds but not closing businesses and making people wear masks.

    If it was something as deadly as Ebola then I'd consider harsher measures.

    Would you be ok with the higher death rate that Sweden had compared to its immediate neighbours?
    So we would lose more people over the course of the pandemic, you're ok with that?

    Also, would you recommend masks on public transport during morning and evening rush hours, as Sweden does?


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    #2289
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    GT89 wrote: »
    I'd trust "random cranks on YouTube and bitchute" before I'd trust the MSM. That doesn't mean I trust everyone on bitchute or youtube.
    And how does trust come into this above scientific knowledge once it's verified by others?


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    #2290
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    lucernarian wrote: »
    This is ridiculous. The population mostly acted off advice rather than rules but the evidence suggests Sweden experienced severe economic turmoil and unemployment. I would question why your issue is with wearing masks also.

    Everywhere experienced economic turmoil and unemployment due the way the economy has been globally in 20/21.

    I don't have an issue with masks I have an issue with laws requiring masks in certain settings which discriminate against people with a disability and impinge on freedom.


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    #2291
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    GT89 wrote: »
    Lockdown sets a precedent as a tool that could be used for different scenarios such as social/political unrest or things like climate change. It is an example of social engineering in action.

    That only works if you have the population agreeing with your aims in a democracy. No national lock down due to a bit of social unrest is going to hold in pretty much every country in the world. A national health crisis maybe, a few people running around with sticks nope.

    If for a moment we say that this is the longterm plan for why lockdowms were brought in around the world, then why were they bought in all around the world. How did all governments, except Sweden, agree to this being needed?


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    #2292
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    GT89 wrote: »
    Everywhere experienced economic turmoil and unemployment due the way the economy has been globally in 20/21.

    I don't have an issue with masks I have an issue with laws requiring masks in certain settings which discriminate against people with a disability and impinge on freedom.

    Some economies more than others. Not every country suffered the exact same way. Sweden certainly suffered like western Europe did in general. It's such a waffle answer. I don't even support pieces of cloth as a protective measure and your attitude just sounds contrarian.


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    #2293
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    GT89 wrote: »
    I don't have an issue with masks I have an issue with laws requiring masks in certain settings which discriminate against people with a disability and impinge on freedom.

    But people who can't wear masks for certain reasons are exempt. There is no restriction on your freedom by the wearing of a mask.

    Now there are issues for people with certain disabilities such as the deaf who can't now communicate so well as they can't lip read people anymore, but I don't think they are who you are concerned about.


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    #2294
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    PintOfView wrote: »
    Would you be ok with the higher death rate that Sweden had compared to its immediate neighbours?
    So we would lose more people over the course of the pandemic, you're ok with that?

    Also, would you recommend masks on public transport during morning and evening rush hours, as Sweden does?

    On a Europe wide scale Sweden is middle of the road when it comes to deaths. Viruses are natural phenomena meaning they can effect different places differently. Why dont you compare the death rate of the UK to Ireland both countries had lockdown and masks but the UK was still higher.

    Recommended is not mandatory. You cannot be arrested or fined in Sweden for failing to wear a mask. You are not breaching any law by travelling on a bus, tram or train in Sweden without wearing a mask you are in Ireland.


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    #2295
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    GT89 wrote: »
    I'd trust "random cranks on YouTube and bitchute" before I'd trust the MSM. That doesn't mean I trust everyone on bitchute or youtube.
    But you clearly do trust random cranks because they tell you want you want to hear.

    This is what lead you to tell complete lies.

    You said that the flu was a coronavirus.
    Why did you claim this?
    Why do you keep avoiding this point?
    It's only making you look worse.
    If you had at least copped to the mistake, you night have been able to salvage a little credibility...


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    #2296
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    robinph wrote: »
    But people who can't wear masks for certain reasons are exempt. There is no restriction on your freedom by the wearing of a mask.

    Now there are issues for people with certain disabilities such as the deaf who can't now communicate so well as they can't lip read people anymore, but I don't think they are who you are concerned about.

    Even though there are exemptions there are some places that have installed signage stating "No mask no entry" or "no mask no service". This is discrimination.

    Not all disabilities are visible. People who are exempt in some cases have been questioned and/or refused access to certain businesses and services for failure to wear a mask even with a letter of exemption (which is not required btw).

    You should really watch this video. If you do not wish to watch the whole video I suggest skipping to 5:00 in.
    https://youtu.be/n1H_rrNaOVs


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    #2297
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    King Mob wrote: »
    But you clearly do trust random cranks because they tell you want you want to hear.

    This is what lead you to tell complete lies.

    You said that the flu was a coronavirus.
    Why did you claim this?
    Why do you keep avoiding this point?
    It's only making you look worse.
    If you had at least copped to the mistake, you night have been able to salvage a little credibility...

    I thought it was a coronavirus actually a common cold is a type of coronavirus my bad.


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    #2298
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    GT89 wrote: »
    I thought it was a coronavirus actually a common cold is a type of coronavirus my bad.
    What's the point of bringing up that the common cold is a type of coronavirus, though?


    SARS and MERS are also types of coronavirus.


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    #2299
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    GT89 wrote: »
    I thought it was a coronavirus actually a common cold is a type of coronavirus my bad.
    Why did you claim it was though?
    Are you now claiming that all people sick with covid are actually now sick with the cold rather than the flu?

    Why did you repeatedly ignore the fact you lied?


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    #2300
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    GT89 wrote: »
    I thought it was a coronavirus actually a common cold is a type of coronavirus my bad.

    Hence why you shouldn't believe the nonsense being peddled to you by grifters. There is a wealth of publicly available, peer reviewed, accessable and transparent data available to you. It's not hard to find, it's not hard to understand. You should apply the same disbelief you apply to MSM to your unverified bitchute sources.


  • Options
    #2301
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    GT89 wrote: »
    Everywhere experienced economic turmoil and unemployment due the way the economy has been globally in 20/21.

    I don't have an issue with masks I have an issue with laws requiring masks in certain settings which discriminate against people with a disability and impinge on freedom.

    Masks are scientifically proven to lower transmission. This is a fact.

    The right to freedom is balanced with the rights of public health. This is nothing new.


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    #2302
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Masks are scientifically proven to lower transmission. This is a fact.

    The right to freedom is balanced with the rights of public health. This is nothing new.

    Sweden seems to manage fine without mandatory masks. We seemed to manage fine for four months March, April, May and June without mandatory masks. The two issues I have with masks are the fact they are required by law in certain settings and the fact that certain establishments and individuals are not recognising the fact that some people are exempt.


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    #2303
    PintOfView
    Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    GT89 wrote: »
    So tell me what makes you think the mainstream media are accurate
    GT89 wrote: »
    I thought it was a coronavirus actually a common cold is a type of coronavirus my bad.

    Taking your second comment above, can you see how easy it is to, perhaps inadvertently, put misleading information on the internet (ie. that flu is the same as covid).

    To address your first question, the reason why mainstream media is likely to be more accurate is because it's watched/read by much more people than the various youtube or facebook or bitchute channels.
    Those speciality channels effectively turn into echo chambers, without any counter argument (how often do you see people questioning their conclusions, and have you ever done that?).

    The mainstream media is consumed by people of all opinions, so they have to make an effort to be objective, and most try to avoid disseminating demonstrably false and unverified information (despite a poor effort on the part of some, such as Fox News, etc).

    Can you see how remarks by someone like yourself, in this thread, may be picked up as gospel by someone with roughly your take on things, and then spread further on other channels as the 'truth'.
    Do you check the information that you receive on bitchute, etc., outside of the ecosystem of echo chambers that all link to each other?


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    #2304
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,405 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    GT89 wrote: »
    Sweden seems to manage fine without mandatory masks. We seemed to manage fine for four months March, April, May and June without mandatory masks. The two issues I have with masks are the fact they are required by law in certain settings and the fact that certain establishments and individuals are not recognising the fact that some people are exempt.

    The exacy same can be said for seat belts, are you against seat belts? Should we just all stop wearing them when out on the roads?


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    #2305
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    The exacy same can be said for seat belts, are you against seat belts? Should we just all stop wearing them when out on the roads?

    Not the same thing. Seat belt laws weren't brought in virtually overnight either. There are exemptions to seatbelt laws also. Some vehicles do not have seatbelts such as buses. Personally I wouldn't be against a law that means you don't have to wear a seatbelt if travelling under 50km


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    #2306
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭storker


    GT89 wrote: »
    I'd trust "random cranks on YouTube and bitchute" before I'd trust the MSM. That doesn't mean I trust everyone on bitchute or youtube.

    There's part of your problem.


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    #2307
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    GT89 wrote: »
    Sweden seems to manage fine without mandatory masks. We seemed to manage fine for four months March, April, May and June without mandatory masks. The two issues I have with masks are the fact they are required by law in certain settings and the fact that certain establishments and individuals are not recognising the fact that some people are exempt.

    How many times did you leave the house, go to work, ride on public transport, hang out with others in a park during March, April, May?

    What about during June, July, August? Was there any other changes to restrictions nationally between those two periods?


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    #2308
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    GT89 wrote: »
    Sweden seems to manage fine without mandatory masks. We seemed to manage fine for four months March, April, May and June without mandatory masks. The two issues I have with masks are the fact they are required by law in certain settings and the fact that certain establishments and individuals are not recognising the fact that some people are exempt.

    Sweden hasn't managed fine. Again this is easily checked information.

    They have had more deaths than Norway, Finland and Denmark combined.

    Sweden's king has said his country "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus pandemic.

    King Carl XVI Gustaf made the remarks as part of an annual TV review of the year with the royal family.

    Sweden, which has never imposed a full lockdown, has seen nearly 350,000 cases and more than 7,800 deaths - a lot more than its Scandinavian neighbours.

    Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said he agreed with the king's remarks.


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    #2309
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Masks are scientifically proven to lower transmission. This is a fact.

    The right to freedom is balanced with the rights of public health. This is nothing new.


    No it's not .....it's far from balanced.


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    #2310
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,776 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    GT89 wrote: »
    Sweden seems to manage fine without mandatory masks.

    They haven't managed fine. They used a model where they relied on social responsibility to deal with the virus and it didn't work out well. The Dutch also relied on that and it didn't work out well for them either.
    We seemed to manage fine for four months March, April, May and June without mandatory masks.

    Masks have been made mandatory in certain situations to reduce the spread of the virus, that's it. All the bad logic in the world doesn't dispute that.
    The two issues I have with masks are the fact they are required by law in certain settings and the fact that certain establishments and individuals are not recognising the fact that some people are exempt.

    It's obvious you have an issue with masks being mandatory because of personal world views you have about authority regardless of how effective and common sense those measures are.


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    #2311
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,776 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    No it's not .....it's far from balanced.

    Certain individuals can't stand "being told" to wear a mask, they perceive this as an authority figure "abusing the pandemic" to give them orders and they can't stand that. Which is why this thread is full of those contrarians acting like it's a political issue.

    It isn't, masks reduce the spread of the virus.


This discussion has been closed.
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