What do you think is a fair salary for TDs, Ministers etc?

StupidLikeAFox · 25-09-2020 1:37am #1

Everybody gives out about the TDs pay. "They are paid too much" they say, "I'd like to see them do the job at minimum wage" is another one. And then there is the expenses, oh lord! The expenses are another racket!

So I put it to the good people of boards, what do you think is a fair salary for doing the job of a TD, minister, tanaiste or Taoiseach? Should it be voluntary? Should it be the average Ind wage? Is the current salary acceptable?

For reference, here's what they are on: https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/salaries-and-allowances/salaries/

I think the ceann comhairle is on the handiest number - pulls in an additional €80k a year without any responsibility or decision making. Sean OFearghaile got elected to third seat in a 3 seat constituency (8,200 votes) in 2016. He will do two terms as CC which will earn him potentially 720k in CC allowances. This is on top of 3 terms in the dail, potentially 1.4m in salary. Plus expenses. So potentially 14 years and 2.1m off the back of a single, mediocre election win. In that time he doesn't even need to take a position on anything or face a single tough interview - mad stuff

endacl · 25-09-2020 1:42am

Whatever provokes whinging about 'degubbernmint'.

Plus a euro, for the craic.

bobbyy gee · 25-09-2020 1:52am

Can they work overtime
And summer holidays

25-09-2020 2:08am

plus the pension dont forget

ok, compare it to say, a fair high level management role. imperfect but a start.

take the difficulty in getting the job, then add in the responsibility. sprinkle the hours demanded. consider the stability.

certainly juice the numbers with the fact that you are public property.

you'll come to the same conclusion i do, maybe

the bad ones are overpaid

the good ones are underpaid

we all disagree on who belongs in each category

isnt life funny

feargale · 25-09-2020 2:27am

In calculating what you think they should be paid ask yourself these questions:
1. How do their income and responsibilities compare with other qualified people?
2. How much do you think they would earn if they were not in the Dail?
3. How much does your favourite singer or musician earn, or your favourite sportsperson? Do you think that they perform a greater or more important service to humanity?
4. Would you have the job, and for how much?

Of course if you think that everybody on their income level should be reduced so be it. In your campaigning you will be busy taking on the rock stars and sporting megastars and others

Get Real · 25-09-2020 3:09am

Possibly controversial to say, and people love to jump at the high salaries and pensions. But I wouldn't be a minister for any less than 100k.

No matter what decisions you make, there'll be a large proportion of people who disagree with you.

You're only temporary and you base your decisions on civil servants who are in the same role decades.

You can't do things you actually want to do, rather you are confined by politics and financial limits.

You're always "on". People will always feel they can approach you to moan about something/ discuss a policy/ tell you a story when you just want to sit and have a coffee.

Your life is controlled by schedules, dictated by advisors and involving trips away, early starts, late finishes, regardless of what you might have planned.

Again, you're subject to abuse/twitter scrutiny/criticism (as well as praise) for anything you do or say.

Salary is fair imo and it's give and take. If others begrudge them of it, they should run for election themselves.

Eric Cartman · 25-09-2020 3:15am

The entire government costs about 500 mil a year to run, its 1/40th of the cost of the welfare bill and 1/160th the total tax take thats everything all in.

The salaries are fair and disuade corruption but there is a definite issue with expenses ala the SF TD and printing expenses, but overall elected official salaries are reasonable for our country

dubrov · 25-09-2020 3:22am

I think they should be paid very highly. Pay them pennies and you will only attract TDs that end up in the pockets of big business.

You might save a bit in salary by paying them lowly but it will end up costing the taxpayer a lot more

Wanderer78 · 25-09-2020 5:30am

I actually largely agree with the positive opinions regarding pay, it's easily one of the sh1ttised jobs anyone could do, they earn their money in the abuse they receive alone, but many work colossal hours and travel a lot, I couldn't do it, I'd have a breakdown in the first week. I've an enormous amount of respect for them, even for those I disagree with, somebody has to do it

Smee_Again · 25-09-2020 6:37am

I earn 2/3 of what TDs do and if someone offered my a 50% raise to do their job I wouldn’t take it.

So maybe they’re underpaid although their expenses are a bit ott.

Sir Oxman · 25-09-2020 6:56am

Smee_Again wrote: »

I earn 2/3 of what TDs do and if someone offered my a 50% raise to do their job I wouldn’t take it.

So maybe they’re underpaid although their expenses are a bit ott.

Yes, I used to be one of the many that moaned and criticised the salary of TDs etc but it is an always on job and I know I couldn't/wouldn't do it.
I understand the position opens up lots of doors for them also, careerwise.
Lots of rubbish TDs and senators in the mix but for the former, the public gets what the public wants.

Expenses and possibly pensions are overinflated.

bobbyy gee · 25-09-2020 6:57am

my boss gets paid 300,000 euros
and bonus

suicide_circus · 25-09-2020 6:59am

https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/65052/this-is-what-politicians-get-paid-around-the-world

MPs in Singapore start on $888,000...yikes!

Wanderer78 · 25-09-2020 7:30am

bobbyy gee wrote:

my boss gets paid 300,000 euros and bonus

...and I'm sure he receives 300k's worth of stress to

Wanderer78 · 25-09-2020 7:31am

suicide_circus wrote:

MPs in Singapore start on $888,000...yikes!

....and I'd imagine it's a far better run country also

Danzy · 25-09-2020 7:34am

I wouldn't be a TD for what they are on now.

Life is too short for that.

Widdensushi · 25-09-2020 7:47am

Pay them highly, even give them a raise, stop this crap of hiring these advisors, often family members

Wanderer78 · 25-09-2020 7:51am

Widdensushi wrote:

Pay them highly, even give them a raise, stop this crap of hiring these advisors, often family members

Wouldn't agree with the raise, the optics would be dreadful, in the current situation. Governments will always need advisor's, running a country is bloody complicated, if family members are worthy of the positions, so be it, but if they ain't......

jaxxx · 25-09-2020 7:54am

Three fiddy.

blanch152 · 25-09-2020 10:17am

Get Real wrote: »

Possibly controversial to say, and people love to jump at the high salaries and pensions. But I wouldn't be a minister for any less than 100k.

No matter what decisions you make, there'll be a large proportion of people who disagree with you.

You're only temporary and you base your decisions on civil servants who are in the same role decades.

You can't do things you actually want to do, rather you are confined by politics and financial limits.

You're always "on". People will always feel they can approach you to moan about something/ discuss a policy/ tell you a story when you just want to sit and have a coffee.

Your life is controlled by schedules, dictated by advisors and involving trips away, early starts, late finishes, regardless of what you might have planned.

Again, you're subject to abuse/twitter scrutiny/criticism (as well as praise) for anything you do or say.

Salary is fair imo and it's give and take. If others begrudge them of it, they should run for election themselves.

To be honest, when I see the stuff posted on here about Ministers and TDs, when I see posters adopting the name of a TD's partner for a laugh, when I see the ****e on Twitter, I come to the conclusion that it would be a lot more than 100k before I would do that job.

There are thousands in the pharmaceutical, technology and finance sectors earning more than 100k, much better places to look for a job.

blanch152 · 25-09-2020 10:18am

Widdensushi wrote: »

Pay them highly, even give them a raise, stop this crap of hiring these advisors, often family members

The government has hired 65 advisers according to Sinn Fein.

How many of them are "often family members". I would guess zero. Do you know the figure?

SB71 · 25-09-2020 10:23am

€60K and expenses claimed need to be compoletely verified,nothing else.

They shouldnt get anywhere near the amount of holidays they get either.

ahnowbrowncow · 25-09-2020 10:28am

blanch152 wrote: »

The government has hired 65 advisers according to Sinn Fein.

How many of them are "often family members". I would guess zero. Do you know the figure?

It's not the advisors that are related. A number of TDs hire relations as parliamentary or constituency assistants, as Alan Farrell did and many others have done.

But it's not always due to nepotism, they may want someone they know and can trust.

blanch152 · 25-09-2020 10:32am

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

It's not the advisors that are related. A number of TDs hire relations as parliamentary or constituency assistants, as Alan Farrell did and many others have done.

But it's not always due to nepotism, they may want someone they know and can trust.

Given those assistants are only on 25k a year, around the living wage, they probably can't get anyone else to do the job.

The allegation was made about advisers though, not about the person typing the TD's letters.

ranto_boy · 25-09-2020 11:34am

I think what they earn is fair. Maybe a closer look is needed at expenses and all that, but overall seems ok to me.

Jane98 · 25-09-2020 11:48am

I have no problem with the wages they receive if they do their job. What annoys me is the almost empty Dail chamber (even pre Covid) and €100k+ of unvouched expenses they receive when I as a teacher have had to buy my own stationary including board markers and have even bought an additional whiteboard and press for my own classroom from my own money.

Wanderer78 · 25-09-2020 11:49am

Jane98 wrote: »

I have no problem with the wages they receive if they do their job. What annoys me is the almost empty Dail chamber (even pre Covid) and €100k+ of unvouched expenses they receive when I as a teacher have had to buy my own stationary including board markers and have even bought an additional whiteboard and press for my own classroom from my own money.

make sure you always shout and scream about dump policies such as austerity!

Car99 · 25-09-2020 11:55am

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/65052/this-is-what-politicians-get-paid-around-the-world

MPs in Singapore start on $888,000...yikes!

€550,000 is not big money in Singapore.

Wanderer78 · 25-09-2020 11:56am

Car99 wrote: »

€550,000 is not big money in Singapore.

any idea of average earnings?

Galwayguy35 · 25-09-2020 12:03pm

TBH I think the salary they are on is reasonable, TDs put themselves out in front of the public and its the same public who votes them in.

Now expenses are a different story, I think they should be abolished because anyone on nearly 100 k a year sould be well able to cover their own costs.

As for the Seanad the salary those leeches should be on is the steam off their piss.

feargale · 25-09-2020 3:40pm

bobbyy gee wrote: »

my boss gets paid 300,000 euros
and bonus

I suspect his political ambitions are very modest

elperello · 25-09-2020 3:50pm

Just leave the system as it is.

TD's salary tied to Civil Service grade. When they get a cut or raise the TD gets it.

Stop all the messing about not taking a raise or gifting it back to the State. Just pay them and let them use it as they see fit. If they want to give to charity or local good causes let them.

Expenses are an essential part of the job. A TD from the country clearly has more costs associated to attending the Dail than a city TD.

ahnowbrowncow · 25-09-2020 6:37pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Given those assistants are only on 25k a year, around the living wage, they probably can't get anyone else to do the job.

The allegation was made about advisers though, not about the person typing the TD's letters.

€25k a year? Parliamentary assistant starts at €41k, not bad for just typing letters.

And unlike other countries, our TDs don't have to disclose when they give such jobs to their relations.

Suckit · 27-09-2020 3:06pm

Whatever their wages, cut out the stupid expenses and having things paid for them.
- Keep the ridiculous wage, but pay for everything themselves.
Drastically cut the pension.

tjhook · 27-09-2020 3:46pm

elperello wrote: »

Just leave the system as it is.

TD's salary tied to Civil Service grade. When they get a cut or raise the TD gets it.

Are TD salaries reasonable? It depends on what you compare them to. They seem more or less in line with an MP in the UK. As has been said earlier, the whole expenses scam probably needs reform. But I wouldn't compalin about the salary levels.

What I do disagree with is the mechanism by which TDs' pay is decided. TD pay is linked to the pay of senior civil servants. And TDs sign off on the pay of civil servants, so indirectly they decide their own pay. As well as casting doubt on the justification for TD pay, it also casts doubt, which may or may not be justified, on the pay of those civil servants.

TD pay needs to be decided by objective means. An outside committee. I've no idea who should be on it. Perhaps a few TDs, but mostly people from outside the public sector who have good knowledge of senior pay scales. This should remove suspicions and I doubt the salary level would be any lower.

Thelonious Monk · 27-09-2020 5:26pm

I think the TDs salaries are fair enough usually, but with the oncoming doom and gloom and recession and lack of funds I think they should be taking a 10% paycut at least.
It's a horrible job and you'd be nuts to get into it, which is probably why so many gobsh*tes get into politics.

KaneToad · 27-09-2020 5:29pm

Widdensushi wrote: »

Pay them highly, even give them a raise, stop this crap of hiring these advisors, often family members

The advisors are rarely family. The parliamentary assistants are nearly always family.

KaneToad · 27-09-2020 5:34pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

TBH I think the salary they are on is reasonable, TDs put themselves out in front of the public and its the same public who votes them in.

Now expenses are a different story, I think they should be abolished because anyone on nearly 100 k a year sould be well able to cover their own costs.

As for the Seanad the salary those leeches should be on is the steam off their piss.

I wouldn't cover a penny of costs that I incur for doing my job. Why should TDs have to?

ElektroToad · 27-09-2020 5:41pm

Salaries seem about right for TDs and Ministers. But Senators? I think a trim is warranted there. They have little visibility and much less stressful duties compared to TDs and I fail to see value in Seanad's current form.

But as been repeated here many times, the whole expenses regime needs a complete overhaul. All expenses should be fully vouched and available for audit. No exceptions. It's taxpayer money after all...

I've found that the vast majority of large companies and MNCs in the private sector are very strict on employee expenses and I see no reason why public representatives should be held to a lower standard.

bobbyy gee · 27-09-2020 5:42pm

200k is good

Beechwoodspark · 27-09-2020 5:43pm

I would say 40k for senator, 50k for a TD, 70k for a minister, 80k for Taoiseach.

This tax payer has no interest in paying public reps any more than that.

bailey99 · 27-09-2020 5:46pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I would say 40k for senator, 50k for a TD, 70k for a minister, 80k for Taoiseach.

This tax payer has no interest in paying public reps any more than that.

80k for taoiseach. Are u having a laugh?! Christ most people I know earn over 80 a year. Average wage us nearly 40.

Would u do the job for 80.

Geuze · 27-09-2020 10:47pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I would say 40k for senator, 50k for a TD, 70k for a minister, 80k for Taoiseach.

This tax payer has no interest in paying public reps any more than that.

50k for a TD?

Barely above average earnings?

I earn more, and I have less skills than most TDs.

Bear in mind that a 26 year newly-qualified accountant in Dublin is on 45-48k.

touts · 27-09-2020 11:01pm

There is salary and then there is Income. For example the Healy-Raes are multi-millionaires. Not that their wealth has come from their involvement in politics. No not at all. Purely different. No overlap. Nothing to see there at all. Fair play to them. Full time political family who became multi-millionaires from their part time side hustles. Nothing to do with their political careers at all. Just good business investments.

27-09-2020 11:14pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The entire government costs about 500 mil a year to run, its 1/40th of the cost of the welfare bill and 1/160th the total tax take thats everything all in.

The salaries are fair and disuade corruption but there is a definite issue with expenses ala the SF TD and printing expenses, but overall elected official salaries are reasonable for our country

Has proven to be demonstrably untrue, repeatedly, for decades.

27-09-2020 11:16pm

Reading this thread, it's no wonder that TDs run amok.

Plenty of posters would polish TD shoes with their gobs.

Pitiful.

spurious · 27-09-2020 11:18pm

When I started teaching in 1984, a TD's salary was the same as a starting teacher's salary.
Miraculously, theirs seems to have tripled since then.

blindside88 · 28-09-2020 8:50am

I have no issue with their current wages. You need to pay well to attract educated people. If you look at TD’s occupations down through the years there have been doctors, accountants, legal professionals etc. Do you really think these people should be paid less than half of what they’d make in the private sector? Mick down the road thinks the gubermint are paid too much, he’d do it for €500 cash a week. But Mick forgets to mention he failed foundation maths and is an out of work labourer

bailey99 · 28-09-2020 8:46pm

blindside88 wrote: »

Mick down the road thinks the gubermint are paid too much, he’d do it for €500 cash a week. But Mick forgets to mention he failed foundation maths and is an out of work labourer

I laughed out loud at this. Brilliant.

Heres Johnny · 28-09-2020 8:52pm

I wouldn't be a td for 150k if I was offered the chance. Life would be a nightmare. At the region of 200k and above I'd begin to think about it and even then I'd be thinking of getting in, earning big money for a few years and getting out.

noodler · 28-09-2020 8:55pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The entire government costs about 500 mil a year to run, its 1/40th of the cost of the welfare bill and 1/160th the total tax take thats everything all in.

The salaries are fair and disuade corruption but there is a definite issue with expenses ala the SF TD and printing expenses, but overall elected official salaries are reasonable for our country

How do you calculate the 500m?

200 odd TDs and Senators. Be less than 25m including allowances I'd have thought.

Who else have you added in?

What do you think is a fair salary for TDs, Ministers etc?

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