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Should Ireland and the rest of Europe take in more migrants based in Turkey?

12467…10

Comments

  • #152
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Cordell wrote: »
    Can you name one?

    5011007003067_1_default_default.jpg


  • #153
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    gilberto_eire wrote: »
    There doesn't seem to be any follow up from the Dept of Justice in relation to this, in relation to cross department communication.

    All they need when applying for status is to show what they claimed as opposed to each department communicating information such as holidays and overpayments/fraud etc.

    Should be reviewed every few years tbh.

    There’s nothing to stop anyone who has received asylum from travelling anywhere they like - as long as they have a visa or waiver. It’s nothing to do with the Dept of Justice.


  • #154
    Lonesomerhodes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 515 ✭✭✭Lonesomerhodes


    nthclare wrote: »
    I think whomever is a bleeding Liberal and all for taking in economic migrants and refugees should take a few in to their own homes.

    Just like the gay Liberal couple I heard of who decided to take in a few migrants for good will and chead mile failte etc

    It wasn't long before these guy's realised that homosexuality wasn't accepted by the Islamic doctrinal teachings.

    And the Islamic guys were none too pleased about being undermined by the people who kindly offered their help, by not telling them they were a gay couple who shared the same bed and now and again joined by Fred.

    Grindr 3Somes and Islamic teachings do not mix under the one roof.

    None of the bleeding heart liberals do anything to help anyone but themselves.

    It's all posturing and trying to appear noble and usually for their facebook and insta accounts.

    Incredibly vacuous shallow people.

    Funnily enough those they accuse of being racist (ie me) well my partner is an immigrant and my daughter is mixed race. Don't think you can get any more dedicated to another race then spending your life with someone of a different race but these people can't comprehend it.

    Ironically that makes me far more tolerant in a way than them but again these folk cannot do logic or irony!.

    Reminds me of that Little Britain sketch. Computer says no!. :pac:


  • #155
    Cordell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Cordell


    alastair wrote: »
    5011007003067_1_default_default.jpg

    I suspect you're trying to say that distillation was invented in the islamic world - which is not true, it was invented in that place, but not in that time. Distillation predates both islam and christianity by more that 1000 years.


  • #156
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Cordell wrote: »
    I suspect you're trying to say that distillation was invented in the islamic world - which is not true, it was invented in that place, but not in that time. Distillation predates both islam and christianity by more that 1000 years.

    pointing out inventions made by a group millennia ago is a double edged sword and really only serves to highlight the lack of recent innovations.


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  • #157
    Cordell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Cordell


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    pointing out inventions made by a group millennia ago is a double edged sword and really only serves to highlight the lack of recent innovations.

    You wrote that from a device that has more processing power than the whole world had 40 years ago while using less energy than a single light bulb from the same time. Right, quite a lot of lack of recent innovation.


  • #158
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Cordell wrote: »
    You wrote that from a device that has more processing power than the whole world had 40 years ago while using less energy than a single light bulb from the same time. Right, quite a lot of lack of recent innovation.

    i'm talking about when people say the arabs invented distillation or certain concepts in maths.


  • #159
    DelaneyIn
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn


    alastair wrote: »
    Immigration is controlled. It’s controlled in every country in the world.

    Would say that immigration is controlled in Greece at the moment? If that’s “controlled immigration”, I would hate to see what you deem to be uncontrollable immigration.


  • #160
    sink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    Varik wrote: »
    At no point does that random picture mention or disregard the long gone Islamic golden age.

    One is a picture of a retard in pink crocs, and the other is DRAWING of a English knight in regalia from 100 years after the Islamic golden ages was dead and gone ( and never to come back).

    You're missing my point. The Knight was from the upper echelons of society, for every knight there were a thousand serfs. At a similar time in history, Islamic society had it's own ruling class, who at various points in history were even wealthier and more technologically advanced than their European contemporaries.

    It is a silly meme that has little to do with reality. It contains the message that modern European men are weak in the face of the migrants flowing into Europe from the Middle East in contrast to their historical ancestors. I was simply pointing out that the Knight was not representative the vast majority of Europeans and also that quite often the Knights were inferior to their Islamic contemporaries in many ways.


  • #161
    Cordell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Cordell


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i'm talking about when people say the arabs invented distillation or certain concepts in maths.

    Maybe they did or maybe they didn't, what's clear is that we won't be getting any of them inventors and scholars :)


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  • #162
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Lonesomerhodes wrote: »
    None of the bleeding heart liberals do anything to help anyone but themselves.

    It's all posturing and trying to appear noble and usually for their facebook and insta accounts.

    Incredibly vacuous shallow people.

    Funnily enough those they accuse of being racist (ie me) well my partner is an immigrant and my daughter is mixed race. Don't think you can get any more dedicated to another race then spending your life with someone of a different race but these people can't comprehend it.

    Ironically that makes me far more tolerant in a way than them but again these folk cannot do logic or irony!.

    Reminds me of that Little Britain sketch. Computer says no!. :pac:

    That's the Irony of it, there's one in particular I know and they're really really irritating.

    They'll treat people like dirt under the guise of my way or the highway, they'll push every boundary they oppose.

    But dare you suggest they're hypocritical you'll be micro whataboutery towards them.

    Liberal should mean Liberal and not a cherry picker.


  • #163
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Cordell wrote: »
    I suspect you're trying to say that distillation was invented in the islamic world - which is not true, it was invented in that place, but not in that time. Distillation predates both islam and christianity by more that 1000 years.

    Abu Musa Jabir ibn Hayyan - inventor of the alembic pot.


  • #164
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭McGiver


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    i'm talking about when people say the arabs invented distillation or certain concepts in maths.
    Regardless of my opinion of current Arabic culture, for which I have deep criticism and reservations, you're absolutely and utterly wrong about Arabian mathematics, despite this to be a pubic knowledge.

    Arabian mathematics for absolutely instrumental and essential for development on modern mathematics in Europe by translating, analysing and elaborating on previous Greek and especially Indian mathematicians' works. FFS algebra is called like that for a reason, it's an Arabic word! And we wouldn't even have decimal system in Europe without them, which itself was an Indian invention - we would be using Roman numerals!

    I guess you could start with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_in_medieval_Islam


  • #165
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Cordell wrote: »
    You wrote that from a device that has more processing power than the whole world had 40 years ago while using less energy than a single light bulb from the same time. Right, quite a lot of lack of recent innovation.

    It probably uses a lithium-ion battery too. Thanks to Rachid Yazami.


  • #166
    Cordell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Cordell


    alastair wrote: »
    Abu Musa Jabir ibn Hayyan - inventor of the alembic pot.

    According to the wikipedia, no, doesn't seem so, he was just an early user of said device, but it was invented before him, and again, before islam.
    alastair wrote: »
    It probably uses a lithium-ion battery too. Thanks to Rachid Yazami.

    Sure, but all was done in France.


  • #167
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Cordell wrote: »
    According to the wikipedia, no, doesn't seem so, he was just an early user of said device, but it was invented before him, and again, before islam.
    It is from Arabic that we get the word 'alembic' (al ambic) and alcohol (al cohol). The first means the distillation vessel, and the second, while it was used to describe a very hard lead or antimony based powder, expresses the idea of delicacy and subtlety, as in distillation vapour.
    The still was developed in 800 AD by the Arab alchemist Jabir ibn Hayyan. The word ‘alembic’ is derived from the metaphoric meaning of ‘that which refines; which transmutes’, through distillation.

    https://www.lusiancoppers.com/files/StillHistory.pdf

    800AD is safely in Islamic territory.
    Cordell wrote: »
    Sure, but all was done in France.
    By a Muslim Moroccan.


  • #168
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    McGiver wrote: »
    Regardless of my opinion of current Arabic culture, for which I have deep criticism and reservations, you're absolutely and utterly wrong about Arabian mathematics, despite this to be a pubic knowledge.

    Arabian mathematics for absolutely instrumental and essential for development on modern mathematics in Europe by translating, analysing and elaborating on previous Greek and especially Indian mathematicians' works. FFS algebra is called like that for a reason, it's an Arabic word! And we wouldn't even have decimal system in Europe without them, which itself was an Indian invention - we would be using Roman numerals!

    I guess you could start with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_in_medieval_Islam
    people are taking me up wrong. i'm not denying that the arabs made massive contributions back in the day. what i'm saying is, pointing to ancient contributions to science and technology by xyz group only highlights that recent contributions by xyz have been pretty thin on the ground.


  • #169
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    people are taking me up wrong. i'm not denying that the arabs made massive contributions back in the day. what i'm saying is, pointing to ancient contributions to science and technology by xyz group only highlights that recent contributions by xyz have been pretty thin on the ground.

    Particularly where you ignore them.


  • #170
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    alastair wrote: »
    Particularly where you ignore them.
    i'm ignoring nothing. the powerhouse of innovation since 1500 has been europe and its colonies, thats not taking anything away from the rest of the world. japan since 1945 and more recently korea have taken a central role

    back on topic; should Ireland help by taking in more migrants? possibly yes. should the EU rigorously defend the integrity of its sovereign borders? definitely.


  • #171
    Cordell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭Cordell


    alastair wrote: »
    https://www.lusiancoppers.com/files/StillHistory.pdf

    800AD is safely in Islamic territory.
    That paper is wrong, it was invented before that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alembic#History
    and distillation
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distillation#History

    alastair wrote: »
    By a Muslim Moroccan.
    ...that left the islamic world to get his education and work done. Probably because he didn't want to compete with all those brilliant muslim scientists in the islamic world.
    In any case, there's none like him coming through Greece or over the Mediterranean. People like him are usually coming through the proper legal entry points, with the relocation expenses reimbursed.


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  • #172
    Clarence Boddiker
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Clarence Boddiker


    Here we see Alastairs skills at work, a thread about Migrants at the Greek and Turkish border and whether Ireland should take them in has turned into an argument over ancient distillation methods.


  • #173
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Clarence Boddiker wrote: »
    Here we see Alastairs skills at work, a thread about Migrants at the Greek and Turkish border and whether Ireland should take them in has turned into an argument over ancient distillation methods.

    As compared to your remarkable contributions, eh? 😂


  • #174
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,022 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    wheres the outright homophobia? honestly missed that??

    It's a re-reg account I wouldn't bother!


  • #175
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,022 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Clarence Boddiker wrote: »
    Here we see Alastairs skills at work, a thread about Migrants at the Greek and Turkish border and whether Ireland should take them in has turned into an argument over ancient distillation methods.

    Yeah that's his MO, change the subjectit's almost like it's his job to drive the subject off topic and get the thread closed!
    Back on topic send European forces to the Greek borders and keep this lot out! We've enough issues with the Coronavirus!


  • #176
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    Yeah that's his MO, change the subjectit's almost like it's his job to drive the subject off topic and get the thread closed!
    Back on topic send European forces to the Greek borders and keep this lot out! We've enough issues with the Coronavirus!

    Last I heard the Greek military were European forces.


  • #177
    M256
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭M256


    alastair wrote: »
    Last I heard the Greek military were European forces.
    And? It is an EU border so other countries should help the Greek military


  • #178
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    M256 wrote: »
    And?

    And what?


  • #179
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    M256 wrote: »
    It is an EU border so other countries should help the Greek military

    That’s already happening. https://frontex.europa.eu/media-centre/news-release/frontex-to-launch-rapid-border-intervention-at-greece-s-external-borders-NL8HaC


  • #180
    M256
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭M256


    alastair wrote: »
    That’s already happening. https://frontex.europa.eu/media-centre/news-release/frontex-to-launch-rapid-border-intervention-at-greece-s-external-borders-NL8HaC
    Good!


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  • #181
    zom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    alastair wrote: »
    That’s already happening. https://frontex.europa.eu/media-centre/news-release/frontex-to-launch-rapid-border-intervention-at-greece-s-external-borders-NL8HaC


    Are you trying to be sarcastic?
    A Danish patrol boat monitoring the Aegean sea refused an order to push back migrants they rescued, Danish officials told public broadcaster DR.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/danish-frontex-boat-refused-order-to-push-back-rescued-migrants-report/
    Jens Møller, the police chief in charge of the Danish unit participating in the operation, told DR that the crew had rescued 33 migrants headed for Greece in a rubber dinghy when they received a radio order from Operation Poseidon's headquarters to put the migrants back into to their dinghy and tow it out of Greek waters.

    The crew refused the order, believing it would endanger the lives of the migrants. "The commander considered that [the order] was not justifiable," Møller said, adding that he eventually managed to get the order overturned. The rescued migrants were brought to the Greek island of Kos


  • #182
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    zom wrote: »
    Are you trying to be sarcastic?



    https://www.politico.eu/article/danish-frontex-boat-refused-order-to-push-back-rescued-migrants-report/

    That’s a different operation - they aren’t mandated to stop any refugees. The Frontex rapid border intervention wasn’t requested until this week.


  • #183
    zom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    alastair wrote: »
    That’s a different operation - they aren’t mandated to stop any refugees. .

    Hardly any help to Greeks then...


  • #184
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    zom wrote: »
    Hardly any help to Greeks then...

    They were helping the Greeks on a number of fronts - but the primary objective was to stop people dying in the sea. It always was.
    Operation Poseidon supports Greece with border surveillance, saving lives at sea, registration and identification capacities, as well as combatting cross-border crime.

    Operation Poseidon Sea is increasingly becoming a multipurpose operation covering a number of aspects of cross border crime including smuggling of illegal substances, weapons, detection of forged documents and many others. It also covers several coast guard functions such as search and rescue, detection of illegal fishing and maritime pollution.


  • #185
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    alastair wrote: »
    Where’s this spike then?
    HIV%20in%20Ireland%202018%20graph.JPG

    There has most certainly been a spike. It's actually evident in your graph, but we needn't rely on that.

    Let's take a look at your own source - hpsc.ie -, the 2018 HIV final report.
    The rate of HIV diagnosis among those born outside Ireland has increased substantially since 2011 (from 18.4 per 100,000 in 2011 to 45.7 per 100,000 in 2018).

    From 18.4 to 45.7, is a rate of increase of 248%. In that timeframe, a compounded rate of increase of ~12%.

    Other nuggets...
    42% of HIV diagnoses were in people who had a previous HIV diagnosis abroad.
    In 2018, 21% (n=109) of people diagnosed with HIV were born in Ireland, 71% (n=370)
    were born outside Ireland and 8% (n=44) had no information on country of birth reported. Of
    those not born in Ireland, 36% were born in Latin America and Caribbean, 34% in subSaharan Africa, 11% in Western Europe and 9% in Central and Eastern Europe.
    The rate of HIV diagnosis among those born in Ireland has decreased in recent years from
    4.2 per 100,000 in 2015 to 3.0 per 100,000 in 2018 (see Figure 8). The rate among those
    born outside Ireland has increased substantially since 2011     (from 18.4 per 100,000 in 2011
    to 45.7 per 100,000 in 2018). In particular, the number of diagnoses among those born in
    Latin America and Caribbean has increased in recent years (from 22 in 2011 to 131 in
    2018).

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/hivandaids/hivdataandreports/HIV_2018_final.pdf


    So, emphatically a spike. Contrary to your usual evasive bluffing.

    Read your own sources, eh ?


  • #186
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    There has most certainly been a spike. It's actually evident in your graph, but we needn't rely on that.

    Let's take a look at your own source - hpsc.ie -, the 2018 HIV final report.



    From 18.4 to 45.7, is a rate of increase of 248%. In that timeframe, a compounded rate of increase of ~12%.

    Other nuggets...





    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/hivandaids/hivdataandreports/HIV_2018_final.pdf


    So, emphatically a spike. Contrary to your usual evasive bluffing.

    Read your own sources, eh ?

    Nope - there is no spike whatsoever.
    There’s a greater number of foreign-born amongst a percentage that hasn’t changed much from the start of that graph. That’s all.


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  • #187
    Dude89
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Dude89


    It was literally on the news the other day that Syrians have more rights and entitlements in Turkey hence the reason the majority at the Greek border are not even Syrian.


  • #188
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Dude89 wrote: »
    It was literally on the news the other day that Syrians have more rights and entitlements in Turkey hence the reason the majority at the Greek border are not even Syrian.

    Syrians in Turkey seem to be having a great old time alright.

    https://observers.france24.com/en/20200304-racism-syrian-turkey-violence-soldier-die-syria


  • #189
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Cordell wrote: »
    Except for the architecture of the mosques (and of course the call to prayer) how is any of this specifically islamic? I'd even say* that their cuisine will be even better without all those islamic restrictions, so how is this helping?

    *I actually know this, as a lot of foods common in the Balkans while being inspired from the ottoman cuisine they also were adapted to use pork, making them even better.

    Because it is the differences that make food interesting. One of the reasons I love living in China is because of the sheer range of options in terms of choice. There are differences based on ethnic backgrounds, as well, as religious. There are numerous Muslims living within China's borders, and like the Chinese in Ireland, you can find them promoting their own versions of cuisine. I also spent time in Iran a few years ago, and quite enjoyed the food there. Not everything, but that's the same anywhere.

    As for being specifically Islamic, architecture tends to draw from many sources in it's aim to improve itself. Many western uses of the arches were inspired from what Crusaders and missionaries saw in the holy land.. different ways to do something, often being better ways. They simply incorporated them into their own culture. I'm not nuts about buildings but you can see the influence of Islamic culture in Moorish buildings throughout the Med.


  • #190
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    alastair wrote: »
    Nope - there is no spike whatsoever.
    There’s a greater number of foreign-born amongst a percentage that hasn’t changed much from the start of that graph. That’s all.

    A spike, in other words, amongst the very cohort that a thread about taking in migrants would be focused on.

    A thread like this one.

    But you're fooling nobody anyway - the poster you were responding to made no mention of 2003, so 'the start of the graph' here is just a manipulation that suits you.

    2010, '11, '12. They're in the graph as well.
    The number of HIV diagnoses in Ireland has increased by 35% since 2011. A notable jump in the figures became apparent in 2013 and 2014.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/hiv-diagnoses-ireland-4070681-Jun2018/

    A spike.

    That is all.


  • #191
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    A spike, in other words, amongst the very cohort that a thread about taking in migrants would be focused on.

    A thread like this one.

    But you're fooling nobody anyway - the poster you were responding to made no mention of 2003, so 'the start of the graph' here is just a manipulation that suits you.

    2010, '11, '12. They're in the graph as well.



    https://www.thejournal.ie/hiv-diagnoses-ireland-4070681-Jun2018/

    A spike.

    That is all.

    Ehh, no.
    People should also be looking into the spike in HIV cases in Ireland

    There is no spike. The prevalence per population is about the same as it was 18 years ago. So, your claim is without foundation.


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  • #192
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    alastair wrote: »
    Ehh, no.



    It’s not a spike. The prevalence per population is about the same as it was 18 years ago. So, your claim is without foundation.


    Your arithmetic is without foundation.

    The number of HIV diagnoses in Ireland has increased by 35% since 2011.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112748641&postcount=190


    Do you know that 2011 is not 18 years ago ?


  • #193
    zom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    alastair wrote: »
    They were helping the Greeks on a number of fronts.

    I would rather call that sabotaging not helping.


  • #194
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Your arithmetic is without foundation.




    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112748641&postcount=190


    Do you know that 2011 is not 18 years ago ?

    Did you know that the prevalence per population hadn’t shifted much since 2011 either?

    The increase from 2013 is accounted for by a change in how HIV was measured - following on from under-reporting in earlier years - as indicated in the graph.
    NVRL is the only laboratory which initiates the notification process for HIV in Ireland. A previous review of HIV data from 2003 to 2007 by the National Virus Reference laboratory (NVRL) and HPSC identified underreporting of HIV cases (10). At the time, the agreed NVRL criteria for HIV reporting which was defined as two serologically positive results recorded on two separate samples, differed from the European case definition (11). As a result of the review, it was agreed by all surveillance partners to amend the NVRL working case definition to also include all new diagnoses with one antibody positive test and a significant viral load result (where a detectable quantity of HIV nucleic acid is reported). Ongoing review of the data by the NVRL and HPSC in subsequent years identified further new diagnoses which were not being reported due to these laboratory criteria. These were either cases with an anti-HIV serological positive result and subsequent viral loads tests with undetectable viral loads or cases with only one antibody positive and no other subsequent tests. While the number of cases in these categories was small between 2009 and 2012, the number in 2013 increased significantly and was a cause for concern.

    So - what you’re left with is a scenario where diagnosis increased - but prevalence remained less impacted, given that it had been under-reported previously. And within that scenario, the proportion of foreign-born HIV positive cases did increase, but without impacting the overall prevalence within population particularly. Most of the foreign-born cases are Brazilian gay men, which is unsurprising, as a significant proportion of Brazilians who have come here are both young, and gay (30% according to a MRBI poll).


  • #195
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    zom wrote: »
    I would rather call that sabotaging not helping.

    Would you now? 🙄
    Even so - their mandate was clear enough - and that’s what they were there to do.


  • #196
    zom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    More support ;) - after Danish from Frontex, this time Finish Interior Minister Maria Ohisalo (Green) Friday's conference:
    According to Ohisalo, Greece must comply with EU law, which includes the right to apply for asylum.

    https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2020-03-06---live-broadcast-at-about-12-15-pm--minister-of-the-interior-ohisalo-grilled-by-political-journalists-.HJX5m0Y1rU.html


  • #197
    sdanseo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,234 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Absolutely not.

    If you are of the insular, unaware, "let's save the world at our own expense because we're rich" type and in doubt, take a day trip to Balbriggan, and google the housing list.

    Before anyone starts, it's not about racism, xenophobia, the colour or creed of anyone. I'd say the same if there was a sudden mass exodus from Norway. It's the simple fact that for about 9 decades this country has been as near as hell to incompetent of any type of management or planning whatsoever.
    We literally got a pissup in a brewery wrong (the Queen was served a pint she couldn't drink).
    The immigration scenario is no different with thousands left in what are essentially prisons, hating us more and more on the daily.


  • #198
    zom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    It is pretty much all about Turks politics and support against Syria. Nothing else. Anyone who can't see and understand this shouldn't take a part in discussion or decision making - for its own good. You don't fix your gas pipes if you're not qualified - why take important political decisions when you have no clue about politics.


  • #199
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    alastair wrote: »
    Did you know that the prevalence per population hadn’t shifted much since 2011 either?

    But what would the prevalence be were it not for this extremely important phenomenon which no honest commentator would ignore...
    The rate of HIV diagnosis among those born outside Ireland has increased substantially
    since 2011 (from 18.4 per 100,000 in 2011 to 45.7 per 100,000 in 2018).

    ?
    The increase from 2013 is accounted for by a change in how HIV was measured - following on from under-reporting in earlier years - as indicated in the graph.

    Incorrect. Caught again with yet more of your finger-in-the-dam bluffing. And as usual, you omit the basic courtesy of referencing your source.

    In fact, from p.3 of the link provided below -
    In January 2015, there was a change to the surveillance case definition for HIV for HSE
    East (Dublin, Kildare and Wicklow).     Previously, confirmatory testing by the National Virus
    Reference Laboratory (NVRL) was required on two separate samples prior to notification.
    From January 2015 onwards, confirmatory testing by NVRL on one sample was sufficient
    for notification purposes. This change was applied to notifications from all other HSE areas
    in January 2016.     This improved the sensitivity of the surveillance system and resulted in
    increased notifications and more timely notifications since 2015.

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/hivandaids/hivdataandreports/HIV_2018_final.pdf

    2015, not 2013. You can't even read the graph that you provided.


    And yet, the numbers increased even before the change in data method.
    The number of HIV diagnoses in Ireland has increased by 35% since 2011. Mulligan says a notable jump in the figures became apparent in 2013 and 2014...

    https://www.thejournal.ie/hiv-ireland-world-aids-day-3719381-Dec2017/

    Anyway, part of the increase in 2014 and 2015 is accounted for by an outbreak in HIV among homeless drug users in Dublin.

    One way or another, you repping change as just the consequence of changes in how HIV was measured, is just wishful thinking on your part.

    In truth, you haven't a notion.


  • #200
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    But what would the prevalence be were it not for this extremely important phenomenon which no honest commentator would ignore...

    ?



    Incorrect. Caught again with yet more of your finger-in-the-dam bluffing. And as usual, you omit the basic courtesy of referencing your source.

    In fact, from p.3 of the link provided below -



    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/hivandaids/hivdataandreports/HIV_2018_final.pdf

    2015, not 2013. You can't even read the graph that you provided.


    And yet, the numbers increased even before the change in data method.



    https://www.thejournal.ie/hiv-ireland-world-aids-day-3719381-Dec2017/

    Anyway, part of the increase in 2014 and 2015 is accounted for by an outbreak in HIV among homeless drug users in Dublin.

    One way or another, you repping change as just the consequence of changes in how HIV was measured, is just wishful thinking on your part.

    In truth, you haven't a notion.

    Nope - once again:
    Ongoing review of the data by the NVRL and HPSC in subsequent years identified further new diagnoses which were not being reported due to these laboratory criteria. These were either cases with an anti-HIV serological positive result and subsequent viral loads tests with undetectable viral loads or cases with only one antibody positive and no other subsequent tests. While the number of cases in these categories was small between 2009 and 2012, the number in 2013 increased significantly and was a cause for concern.

    That’s an increase in 2013 - not 2015. On the back of changed criteria for inclusion.
    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/hivandaids/hivdataandreports/hivreportsqualityandcompleteness/Report_Evaluation_of_the_HIV_surveillance_in_Ireland_final%2024.11.2015.pdf

    And sure - the foreign-born percentage of a relatively stable prevalence per population figure has grown, but it hasn’t resulted in any sort of spike of prevalence. The ratio of HIV positive people within Irish society hasn’t had any spikes over the last seven years, nor the last seventeen years.


  • #201
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    zom wrote: »
    It is pretty much all about Turks politics and support against Syria. Nothing else. Anyone who can't see and understand this shouldn't take a part in discussion or decision making - for its own good. You don't fix your gas pipes if you're not qualified - why take important political decisions when you have no clue about politics.

    As politicians are only educated to be politicians, or their own limited careers before politics, what qualifies them for the varied portfolios that they might cover over their political career? Nothing... because "politics" is the game of playing with power.

    This situation is more than politics. It's economics. Basic supply and demand. We don't have infinite resources, and migrants are a growing drain.

    There is no expectation that the numbers of migrants will decrease over time. Social, economic, and military unrest is a strong influence in many parts of Africa, the M.East, Asia and S.America. In many cases, those people will want to come to Europe, especially if it's easier than entering another western zone like the US, or Australia. Asylum seekers, for the most part, do not return to their original country... economic migrants will stay as long as there's benefit to them.

    So... where do you place all these migrants who are completely unsuitable in terms of education and attitude to succeeding in a first world economy? (and who have very little interest in improving their educational standards, based on past experience in Germany and other welcoming nations). And as automation comes in more, the jobs the uneducated avail of, will disappear... leaving them with what? Very little, which is going encourage social unrest. Leading to increased benefits for the poor, higher taxes from the middle, and increased bitterness/anger from the native populations.. resulting in?


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