Estate agent talking us out of buying house

Newjob1 · 18-02-2019 5:06pm #1

Hi all, we seen a house we really liked in an area where we want to live in.

The house is priced below the current price considering the location, however this is down to the fact that the house needs a bit of work etc and is factored in the price.

We got an exemption from our bank which allowed us to look in this area, so we seen this house and decided to arrange a viewing.

This is when it started, it’s was a pain trying to get a time and day to view the house, right from the from the get go they were talking ya out of even viewing it.

Eventually they gave in and we viewed it last week. Went to the house and before we walked in the front door EA greeted us with “this house in in awful condition it wouldn’t suit you guys, needs an awful lot of work and money”. Picked out all the flaws, mainly all flaws according to him, new everything needed!!

Anyhow we had a look but he followed us around everywhere and couldn’t get a proper look at it, we asked for another viewing and got one. It was this viewing that we seen potential and decided to bid on it.

We got outbid and upped our original offer and we got a phone call from EA really angrily asking are we sure we can afford this, and asking how much money have we set a side to fix the house up. He got a bit aggressive on the phone. I said yes we want this house and I know it needs a lot of work but we are prepared for this.

My question is, is this normal behavior from an EA?

Thanks

Steer55 · 18-02-2019 5:14pm

It's none of his business how much money ye have set aside to do up the house. He probably has a mate of his lined up for it.

Sleepy · 18-02-2019 5:14pm

My guess is that a previous offer fell through when the bank insisted on seeing proof of funding for the needed renovation. They won't issue a mortgage for a property that's uninhabitable.

godtabh · 18-02-2019 5:38pm

Sleepy wrote: »

My guess is that a previous offer fell through when the bank insisted on seeing proof of funding for the needed renovation. They won't issue a mortgage for a property that's uninhabitable.

The house could be in bits. Doesnt mean its uninhabitable. Unconformable to live in but thats up to the OP.

I bought a house like this just over a year ago. No heating, no insulation, no electricity and no running water when we moved in. Bank valuation went in with now issues. Some issues were easier to fix than others. All in we have probably spent another 15% of the purchase price doing it up via equity in last house/loans.

At the end of the day if you are happy to live in what will be poor conditions **** what the EA thinks and bid away.

PS Our estate agent was asking the same questions but I think mainly to make sure we knew what we were letting ourselfs in with. I suggest you get a builder to run his eye over it before bidding again just to get a handle on roof costs.

Doop · 18-02-2019 5:55pm

Genreally not having running water , no kitchen or no bathroom would all separately lead a house to be deemed not habitable.

Tow · 18-02-2019 6:02pm

Or could be trying to sell it cheap to a friend etc...

Samuel T. Cogley · 18-02-2019 6:08pm

Looked at a few wrecks when buying, although we had a more professional experience the EA did, and should, check to make sure we were properly prepared in regard to a mortgage. Not all property is good security for a mortgage and banks will either attach conditions, or possibly not lend at all.

Claw Hammer · 18-02-2019 6:08pm

He might think you're inexperienced, unable to price the work needed will not be able to raise the finance because the banks valuation won't work and dealing which you could turn out to be a waste of time.

Newjob1 · 18-02-2019 6:11pm

Thanks for the replies,

The house has running water, kitchen and a bathroom. Possibly needs a rewrire, new windows and new heating system and some changes internally such as walls as some rooms have been made into one upstairs. Wall partitions would be required to make it into bedrooms upstairs.

To be honest it’s habitable the way it is, it’s a project I fully get that but one which in time I think would be worth it for the location alone. Obviously I’m no surveyor so can’t judge any structural defects but doesn’t appear to be anything but then again nobody knows until we get one out.

Samuel T. Cogley · 18-02-2019 6:15pm

Newjob1 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies,

The house has running water, kitchen and a bathroom. Possibly needs a rewrire, new windows and new heating system and some changes internally such as walls as some rooms have been made into one upstairs. Wall partitions would be required to make it into bedrooms upstairs.

To be honest it’s habitable the way it is, it’s a project I fully get that but one which in time I think would be worth it for the location alone. Obviously I’m no surveyor so can’t judge any structural defects but doesn’t appear to be anything but then again nobody knows until we get one out.

The EA might very well know is all people are saying. Then again they might be looking after a builder pal. It's your money to spend on a survey if a narkey EA is going to put you off you probably aren't up for the myriad of hairy arsed trades people you're going to have to deal with. If you can navigate the EA then crack on if you think the place is worth it.

Askthe EA · 18-02-2019 6:20pm

Just my two cents here but I would guess that the EA doesn't believe the property is mortageable or believes that a lot of time (and therfore work) will be required to get it past the bank.

It could be for a number of reasons (including his own misinformed opinion, of course), subsidence area, flood area, boundary issues etc. Its possible he has sold other homes in the area and knows that they are a pain to deal with banks on and just wants an easy life.

begbysback · 18-02-2019 6:23pm

First mistake is telling EA how much you can afford

Ray Palmer · 18-02-2019 6:24pm

Most likely looking after a friend/builder. EA will get one purchase from you but others he will get multiple purchases if they 'treat them right.
Pretty common practice especially in small areas. Morally and legally questionable but hard to prove.

Newjob1 · 18-02-2019 6:27pm

I didn’t answer him when he asked how much money we had to put into the house, we just upped our bid to the amount we were willing to pay. We had a maximum price set which we are approaching and would then walk away.

He wanted to know exactly how much we had budgeted to fix up the house, he said it could be anything from €60-100k. I said we are aware it needs a lot of work and we are happy to keep going woth our bid

begbysback wrote: »

First mistake is telling EA how much you can afford

Newjob1 · 18-02-2019 6:30pm

Only thing could be a structural issue, there was an extension build on side maybe no planning permission granted for it or not done correctly.

Apart from that everything else is standard to what we have viewed in every house over 40-50 years old. Again just speculating that may be the case but the surveyor would spot that when we get it done, but then again is it’s structural surely that would effect everyone considering buying it

Askthe EA wrote: »

Just my two cents here but I would guess that the EA doesn't believe the property is mortageable or believes that a lot of time (and therfore work) will be required to get it past the bank.

It could be for a number of reasons (including his own misinformed opinion, of course), subsidence area, flood area, boundary issues etc. Its possible he has sold other homes in the area and knows that they are a pain to deal with banks on and just wants an easy life.

Claw Hammer · 18-02-2019 6:30pm

Newjob1 wrote: »

I didn’t answer him when he asked how much money we had to put into the house, we just upped our bid to the amount we were willing to pay. We had a maximum price set which we are approaching and would then walk away.

He wanted to know exactly how much we had budgeted to fix up the house, he said it could be anything from €60-100k. I said we are aware it needs a lot of work and we are happy to keep going woth our bid

The estate agent doesn't know if you are prepared or in a position to spend the money needed to do up the house. People take 10k or 20 K will do wonders on any house. People have these notions about doing work overtime, one room at a time fantasies. The agent wants to know if you're in the real world or a fantasy world. He only gets paid in the real world.

Sleeper12 · 18-02-2019 6:34pm

Newjob1 wrote:

My question is, is this normal behavior from an EA?

Yes normal behaviour. Not the being aggressive part but it's his job to ask these questions. His next step should be to get you to prove that you have funds for the purchase and at least most of the renovations before he takes your bid seriously

Plumbthedepths · 18-02-2019 6:42pm

Sleeper12 wrote:

Yes normal behaviour. Not the being aggressive part but it's his job to ask these questions. His next step should be to get you to prove that you have funds for the purchase and at least most of the renovations before he takes your bid seriously

Ability to meet the purchase price is understandable but other than that how is it relevant to the EA what funds the OP has for renovations?

18-02-2019 6:49pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The estate agent doesn't know if you are prepared or in a position to spend the money needed to do up the house. People take 10k or 20 K will do wonders on any house. People have these notions about doing work overtime, one room at a time fantasies. The agent wants to know if you're in the real world or a fantasy world. He only gets paid in the real world.

In fairness, the Estate Agent sells houses and apartments, not carpets and sofas. It's not really of concern to an estate agent whether or not someone can afford to fix up a house, it's just a concern whether or not they can afford the house itself.

If someone wants to buy a house for €100k, and it's gonna cost another €50k to fix it up, it's no real business of the Estate Agent whether the OP has that €50k in his pocket there and then, or plans to let the house sit idle and tackle it over a 20 year period. Once the house itself is sold, the estate agent can pat himself on the back and draw a line through that house on his books.

Sleeper12 · 18-02-2019 7:28pm

Plumbthedepths wrote:

Ability to meet the purchase price is understandable but other than that how is it relevant to the EA what funds the OP has for renovations?

Lots of people bid on a house thinking 10k to do it up but it might take 50k or more. A large proportion of these pull out of the sale when their surveyor gives them the bad news. It's prudent of the estate agent to verify before accepting an offer.

bri007 · 18-02-2019 7:38pm

Majority of houses we have been looking at needs at least €50k, be it windows, heating etc and no estate agent has tried to put us off by saying negative things about it, in fact they have said the opposite by selling it up more when it’s actually in bits.

We had one estate agent telling us we could get new windows for €5k in a 3 bed semi d

when I said the house needs a lot of money put into it!

Appears the something isn’t right there, maybe the estate agent has it put aside for someone else they know?

Maybe get a builder to double check and get your Surveyor out.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Lots of people bid on a house thinking 10k to do it up but it might take 50k or more. A large proportion of these pull out of the sale when their surveyor gives them the bad news. It's prudent of the estate agent to verify before accepting an offer.

tvjunki · 18-02-2019 7:44pm

Here is my experience of one house we looked at many years ago.
Looked at a house over priced but lovely not much outside space agent gave us a viewing. The agent said house not great over priced owner does not want to sell ba ba ba . Has a bid of 150k below. We asked to have a second viewing..agent are you sure you want this house. Went to see house again. Decided not for us.

Found out 6months later agent moved in and made it their home. Obviously did not want anyone to bid to on it and bought it for the low ball offer..

Jet Black · 18-02-2019 7:49pm

Could be because the last sale fell through as said above. The house I bought needed some work, structurally it was sound and only needed a kitchen but I listed everything I was going to do. The bank left me short this amount when drawing down the mortgage and I had to make it up in cash. It was only an extra 5k but I had to give that cash when it came time to pay and left me with very little to start the works.

Plumbthedepths · 18-02-2019 7:50pm

Sleeper12 wrote:

Lots of people bid on a house thinking 10k to do it up but it might take 50k or more. A large proportion of these pull out of the sale when their surveyor gives them the bad news. It's prudent of the estate agent to verify before accepting an offer.

That makes zero sense tbh.

Sleeper12 · 18-02-2019 7:53pm

bri007 wrote:

Majority of houses we have been looking at needs at least â‚¬50k, be it windows, heating etc and no estate agent has tried to put us off by saying negative things about it, in fact they have said the opposite by selling it up more when itâ€™s actually in bits.

We don't know how run down this house is or how much to get it up to standard.

It's prudent of the estate agent to ensure that bidders are aware of the costs involved rather than the sale falling through in a month or two.

I had a call earlier this afternoon from a guy. His wife thinks that the motor in her 10 year old shower is slightly noiser than before and he wanted to pay me to check it out.

My advice was to do nothing. The average life span of an electric shower is 10 years. A replacement motor is 150 supplied & fitted. The logical thing to do is to wait till the shower stops and then replace it rather than repair it now. He might get another year or two before the motor packs in. I talked myself out of a job. Not all engineers would give honest advice like this. Many just see money & will repair a shower that shouldn't be repaired. That doesn't mean that it's not good sound advice.

bri007 · 18-02-2019 8:00pm

But if we went of the estate agents view of the costs involved we would be most likely led down a garden path to be honest, speaking from experiences so far.

As I said we have had estate agents under pricing costs to remedy problems that are a lot more that they said, come on like 5k for new windows?

You have to take estate agents recommendations with a pinch of salt, need to do your own homework to be honest. They would tell you anything to seek you a house and to talk you out of a house if it meant lining their own pockets!

Sleeper12 wrote: »

We don't know how run down this house is or how much to get it up to standard.

It's prudent of the estate agent to ensure that bidders are aware of the costs involved rather than the sale falling through in a month or two.

I had a call earlier this afternoon from a guy. His wife thinks that the motor in her 10 year old shower is slightly noiser than before and he wanted to pay me to check it out.

My advice was to do nothing. The average life span of an electric shower is 10 years. A replacement motor is 150 supplied & fitted. The logical thing to do is to wait till the shower stops and then replace it rather than repair it now. He might get another year or two before the motor packs in. I talked myself out of a job. Not all engineers would give honest advice like this. Many just see money & will repair a shower that shouldn't be repaired. That doesn't mean that it's not good sound advice.

begbysback · 18-02-2019 8:09pm

Askthe EA wrote: »

Just my two cents here but I would guess that the EA doesn't believe the property is mortageable or believes that a lot of time (and therfore work) will be required to get it past the bank.

It could be for a number of reasons (including his own misinformed opinion, of course), subsidence area, flood area, boundary issues etc. Its possible he has sold other homes in the area and knows that they are a pain to deal with banks on and just wants an easy life.

Why would he be selling a property if he believes it to be unmortgeagble?

Sleeper12 · 18-02-2019 8:15pm

bri007 wrote:

You have to take estate agents recommendations with a pinch of salt, need to do your own homework to be honest. They would tell you anything to seek you a house and to talk you out of a house if it meant lining their own pockets!

Yes you always have to do your own homework. This goes for most things in life

The point I was trying to make was that you won't get the same advice from all estate agents. They don't all ask the same questions. I know some very honest estate agents & some I have total trust in. Some have saved me a lot of money by taking their advice.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with the behaviour of the estate agent in the op, except for the possible aggressive behaviour.

bleary · 18-02-2019 8:29pm

begbysback wrote: »

Why would he be selling a property if he believes it to be unmortgeagble?

Every property is sellable but some are unmortageable .
For example a lot of auction properties would be unmortgageable

spaceHopper · 18-02-2019 8:39pm

Building rates have jumped we've just finished an extension and renovations. It would be no harm to pay a QS to do a survey now and get a costed outline of a simple and high end renovation. That would shut up the EA and you can if needed show it to the bank to get a letter that they will lend on it. That would back up your offer

Victor · 18-02-2019 8:47pm

Newjob1 wrote: »

The house is priced below the current price considering the location, however this is down to the fact that the house needs a bit of work etc and is factored in the price.

Be careful. Make sure that the bank is happy with the arrangements for funding the renovations - banks are slow to include renovation costs in the mortgage and may insist on a separate term loan.

cameramonkey · 18-02-2019 8:48pm

Bought a pretty derelict property recently. Had a mortgage agreed with the bank but when they saw the place they had a bit of a shock. They withdrew 20% of the mortgage until completion of the upgrading work and insisted that we get the equivalent of what they withdrew in extra Funding. All this took a few months and numerous surveys, engineers reports and even a QS report.

So maybe the EA is a bit scared that the bank will not like the building and his sale will fall through.

cameramonkey · 18-02-2019 8:51pm

begbysback wrote: »

Why would he be selling a property if he believes it to be unmortgeagble?

Cash is King.

Plenty of unmortagble houses in Dublin that I have seen. Many houses near a flood plain will be impossible to insure so impossible to mortgage.

Cuddlesworth · 18-02-2019 9:04pm

begbysback wrote: »

Why would he be selling a property if he believes it to be unmortgeagble?

I would say he has been down this path before.

Couple looks at it, close to max budget.
They put a bid in and start down the process.
Goes to the solicitors, house survey is done.
Valuation and house survey end up with the underwriter down the line, underwriter says where you getting the 120k to bring the house up to modern standards.
Couple says what do you mean 120k.
Sale falls through.

Right now, banks are very cautious about giving out mortgages, especially exceptions, to money pits. And large old houses with zero spent on them in decades are money pits.

Mad_maxx · 18-02-2019 9:24pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Most likely looking after a friend/builder. EA will get one purchase from you but others he will get multiple purchases if they 'treat them right.
Pretty common practice especially in small areas. Morally and legally questionable but hard to prove.

"preferred buyer" phenomenon

Auctioneers like to keep the value stuff for those they know

bri007 · 18-02-2019 9:32pm

+1 on that, I don’t know the ins and out of the OP situation but I was thinking the exact same.

Prob nothing the OP can do unfortunately!

Mad_maxx wrote: »

"preferred buyer" phenomenon

Auctioneers like to keep the value stuff for those they know

Mad_maxx · 18-02-2019 9:35pm

bri007 wrote: »

+1 on that, I don’t know the ins and out of the OP situation but I was thinking the exact same.

Prob nothing the OP can do unfortunately!

It's less common during strong markets

LogicusRex · 18-02-2019 10:07pm

I was always told to buy the worst house in the best street.
Location location location.

godtabh · 18-02-2019 10:30pm

LogicusRex wrote: »

I was always told to buy the worst house in the best street.
Location location location.

thats what we did

riclad · 18-02-2019 11:02pm

Some people say buy what you can afford in a good location,
rather than a great house in a bad location.
You can get a structural survey done ,on the house ,
if you want to know what repairs it will need .
The agent sounds very rude and unprofessional,
as if he knows the person who is trying to buy the house and is
not happy about you bidding on it .
OR see if your bid is accepted , then maybe pay for a full survey .
Banks usually send someone to survey the house ,
eg he just looks around to see is the house worth x,
say the loan is 150k, is the house worth 150k.
Agents are supposed to treat everyone the same and to pass on all reasonable bids to the seller.

Claw Hammer · 19-02-2019 1:24pm

riclad wrote: »

Agents are supposed to treat everyone the same and to pass on all reasonable bids to the seller.

Apart from not breaching the equality Acts, agents are under no obligation to treat everyone the same. Their job is to find a ready, able and willing purchaser. The emphasis here is on ready and able. The OP is clearly inexperienced and the agent is rightly concerned that dealing with them will be a waste of time. His duty is to the owner, not prospective purchasers. With a house in bad condition, he clearly wants a purchaser who is going on with their eyes open and sufficiently well funded.

bilbot79 · 19-02-2019 1:28pm

Prob wants a cash buyer

bri007 · 19-02-2019 4:01pm

Are we all not inexperienced then as first time buyers, who would be experienced then unless they have bought and sold houses in the past?

From my experience some EA would sell you a barn shed and say it has potential and only needs minor work, then on the flip side the OP has said that the house needs some work but is habitable so I don’t see the problem? We are all inexperienced but I know when a house is in bits and estate agent says differently and also when an estate agent is waffling away as the house or apartment is put aside or has a person in mind for it as it sounds here!

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Apart from not breaching the equality Acts, agents are under no obligation to treat everyone the same. Their job is to find a ready, able and willing purchaser. The emphasis here is on ready and able. The OP is clearly inexperienced and the agent is rightly concerned that dealing with them will be a waste of time. His duty is to the owner, not prospective purchasers. With a house in bad condition, he clearly wants a purchaser who is going on with their eyes open and sufficiently well funded.

Claw Hammer · 19-02-2019 4:14pm

bri007 wrote: »

Are we all not inexperienced then as first time buyers, who would be experienced then unless they have bought and sold houses in the past?

From my experience some EA would sell you a barn shed and say it has potential and only needs minor work, then on the flip side the OP has said that the house needs some work but is habitable so I don’t see the problem? We are all inexperienced but I know when a house is in bits and estate agent says differently and also when an estate agent is waffling away as the house or apartment is put aside or has a person in mind for it as it sounds here!

Some first time buyers may have relevant experience such as working in the property business but the majority are green. The OP said he got an exemption from the bank which clearly means he is borrowing in the 90% range and also that he has relatively little cash at his disposal. The chances of any bank being impressed with lending on a rundown property to a person who does not have any experience of renovating an old house, are low. The agent has been able to deduce as much from his interaction with the OP. Not surprisingly he simply doesn't want his time wasted. He can agree price with the OP, turn up to allow the OP is served there examine the property, turn up to allow the banks so where examine the property then have the OP look for a reduction because of a fault identified in the surveys or the bank are refusing to accept the valuation. All in all, weeks wasted and an unhappy owner who wants to place sold. I am not surprised the agent is telling the OP to cop himself on.

Boardnashea · 19-02-2019 4:23pm

Do you know who the seller is? Can you inform them that you are being discouraged by the EA? And that you are worried the EA is not working in their best interests?

Claw Hammer · 19-02-2019 4:28pm

Boardnashea wrote: »

Do you know who the seller is? Can you inform them that you are being discouraged by the EA? And that you are worried the EA is not working in their best interests?

The OP was introduced to the house by the agent on condition that all negotiations go through the agent. The agent is doing his job, protecting the owner from having messers waste time.

bri007 · 19-02-2019 4:46pm

Messers??? What about the way estate agents then tell you mass to sell you a house yet a gust of wind and the house would collapse??

It must be very busy in that estate agents office your in today..........

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The OP was introduced to the house by the agent on condition that all negotiations go through the agent. The agent is doing his job, protecting the owner from having messers waste time.

Claw Hammer · 19-02-2019 4:56pm

bri007 wrote: »

Messers??? What about the way estate agents then tell you mass to sell you a house yet a gust of wind and the house would collapse??

It must be very busy in that estate agents office your in today..........

nobody believes puff from an estate agent.

steinbock123 · 19-02-2019 7:05pm

When the house I live in now went up for sale, there was no sign in the garden, just a listing on Daft. I rang the EA, and asked him when would a viewing be possible – his reply was that there were no viewings scheduled at the moment. So I asked could I have a viewing, and he said that he would prefer to wait until he had several prospective purchasers lined up and that he would have a viewing for all of us then. He said he’d let me know when this was happening.
I had other big life events happening just at that time, so it sorta went out of my head (I had been looking at many other houses), so it was several weeks later when it occurred to me that the EA had not been in touch. So I rang him, and he blithely informed me that the house had gone sale agreed. I was somewhat surprised to say the least, but just took him at his word and didn’t make a fuss. But I got more miffed over the next few days the more I thought about it, so after about a week, I went to his office and confronted him and said he was out of order not coming back to me with a viewing and that the vendor was entitled to hear my offer, if I was to make one. He then went into waffle mode and said the vendor was a very difficult person and won’t make her mind up whether to sell or not, and he was trying his best to get a sale for her, but it was awkward, hard work, etc.etc.etc.
I’ll try and shorten the story. What happened in the end was, having got no satisfaction from the EA, I went and knocked on the door, explained my position to the vendor (who was not a difficult person at all) and was brought in for a viewing there and then. She told me there had been only one family viewed it, and that the EA returned with the same man and an architect for a second viewing, when they spent an hour and a half measuring up the whole place. They then made a low ball offer. The EA said there was no better offer (this was at the height of the recession). The vendor wasn’t happy when I told her that the auctioneer had told me it was sale agreed, and she said it most definitely was not.
So I came back again with my family for a second viewing, and made her an offer she was happy with, and we shook hands on the deal. As far as I know she went back and told the EA that she was taking the house off the market. I do know that she only paid his initial fee for advertising etc., but he got no commission on the deal, as we did it all privately. The vendor was very annoyed and told me that the EA had obviously had some friend or relative lined up and made no effort to sell to anyone else. She was delighted I had knocked on her door.
So some EA’s are not paragons of good business in my experience.
P.S. The EA was, at that time, the local franchisee for one of the big auctioneering chains. He has lost that franchise in the meantime, and now works independently. So he obviously dirtied his bib at some stage and was disenfranchised, it would appear.

Estate agent talking us out of buying house

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