Flight Paths

Ozarks1 · 07-02-2019 12:40pm #1

Is there a way to check the flight paths over Dublin and at what times they are suppossed to be used and to check if planes are turning too early over populated area instead of flying out the further or at too low an altitude?

lintdrummer · 07-02-2019 1:05pm

Some info and reports here. https://www.dublinairport.com/about-us/-community-affairs/airport-noise-noise-reports

View Profile · 07-02-2019 1:12pm

Ozarks1 wrote:

Is there a way to check the flight paths over Dublin and at what times they are suppossed to be used and to check if planes are turning too early over populated area instead of flying out the further or at too low an altitude?

Where are you located that you are noticing aircraft flying where they shouldn't?

robbie1876 · 07-02-2019 1:34pm

lintdrummer wrote: »

Some info and reports here. https://www.dublinairport.com/about-us/-community-affairs/airport-noise-noise-reports

545 complaints in January 2019 from one individual in Ongar. Jesus Christ....

john boye · 07-02-2019 1:51pm

robbie1876 wrote: »

545 complaints in January 2019 from one individual in Ongar. Jesus Christ....

*cough* check OP's post history *cough cough*

L1011 · 07-02-2019 1:53pm

A similar situation in the UK of bulk reporting by one person turned out that they were automating it off schedules and they ended up sending reports for flights that never operated. Not saying that's happening here though

faoiarvok · 07-02-2019 2:12pm

Ozarks1 wrote: »

Is there a way to check the flight paths over Dublin and at what times they are suppossed to be used and to check if planes are turning too early over populated area instead of flying out the further or at too low an altitude?

Noise Abatement Procedures including published runway selection priorities are published in section 2.21 of this document

Bear in mind, ATC are entitled to issue instructions to aircraft contrary to these procedures where they deem it necessary.

California Dreamer · 07-02-2019 3:03pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS8dNzRhMgk

Just in case......

Phileas Frog · 07-02-2019 3:20pm

Ozarks1 wrote: »

Is there a way to check the flight paths over Dublin and at what times they are suppossed to be used and to check if planes are turning too early over populated area instead of flying out the further or at too low an altitude?

You can buy some tinfoil in the local shop for your new hat.

plodder · 07-02-2019 3:41pm

Ozarks1 wrote: »

Is there a way to check the flight paths over Dublin and at what times they are suppossed to be used and to check if planes are turning too early over populated area instead of flying out the further or at too low an altitude?

You can check the actual flight paths taken on flightradar24.com. With a cheap subscription you can check back in time quite a considerable period.

Not sure where or how you would find out whether they were the routes supposed to be taken.

IngazZagni · 07-02-2019 4:02pm

plodder wrote: »

You can check the actual flight paths taken on flightradar24.com. With a cheap subscription you can check back in time quite a considerable period.

Not sure where or how you would find out whether they were the routes supposed to be taken.

I believe altitudes on flightradar are given based on standard pressure settings so you would need to make a correction based on the actual barometric pressure at the time to get a correct altitude reading.

Candamir · 07-02-2019 4:12pm

Should probably have checked out those flight paths and the airport location before you bought the house OP!

plodder · 07-02-2019 4:36pm

IngazZagni wrote: »

I believe altitudes on flightradar are given based on standard pressure settings so you would need to make a correction based on the actual barometric pressure at the time to get a correct altitude reading.

Is it not based on the aircraft own flight data as broadcast through ADS-B?

faoiarvok · 07-02-2019 6:15pm

plodder wrote: »

Is it not based on the aircraft own flight data as broadcast through ADS-B?

Yes, but based on standard pressure.

plodder · 07-02-2019 6:27pm

faoiarvok wrote: »

Yes, but based on standard pressure.

well whatever it's based on, it's the same data that ATC gets, and if it's good enough for ATC, then I'd say it's good enough for the OP

faoiarvok · 07-02-2019 6:30pm

plodder wrote: »

well whatever it's based on, it's the same data that ATC gets, and if it's good enough for ATC, then I'd say it's good enough for the OP

ATC systems correct the received data for the reported QNH though

plodder · 07-02-2019 6:53pm

faoiarvok wrote: »

ATC systems correct the received data for the reported QNH though

I see. Is there likely to be a significant difference then at Dublin? ~70m above sea level....

... or have I already answered my question?

IngazZagni · 07-02-2019 8:44pm

plodder wrote: »

I see. Is there likely to be a significant difference then at Dublin? ~70m above sea level....

... or have I already answered my question?

Nope. You didn’t answer your question.

Difference could easily be a few hundred feet on any given day.

Gaoth Laidir · 08-02-2019 8:06am

Ozarks1 wrote: »

Is there a way to check the flight paths over Dublin and at what times they are suppossed to be used and to check if planes are turning too early over populated area instead of flying out the further or at too low an altitude?

Why do you ask? Are you the person who made all those complaints from Ongar?

Tenger · 08-02-2019 8:53am

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Why do you ask? Are you the person who made all those complaints from Ongar?

Occams Razor seems to indicate so...........

smurfjed · 08-02-2019 9:14am

Yes, but based on standard pressure.

Our transponder readout is the same as our altitude indicators which are based on a set pressure, either QNE/QNH/QFE.

I would have thought that FR gets that same altitude

smurfjed · 08-02-2019 9:18am

Associated the OP with someone in Ongar which was wrong. I apologise.

Tenger · 08-02-2019 9:58am

smurfjed wrote: »

...........
OP have you tried setting up a decibel recorder on your phone to justify the claims?

Im thinking someone who complained 545 times in 31 days isnt going to be interested in something like objective proof.
Comment directed at the complainant rather than the OP of this thread.

Brennus335 · 08-02-2019 9:58am

smurfjed wrote: »

I had to google the location of ONGAR, I would be very surprised if an aircraft was making more noise that the N3 motorway.

OP have you tried setting up a decibel recorder on your phone to justify the claims?

Of course they haven't. They're too busy making spurious complaints to have the time to do something logical.

Ozarks1 · 08-02-2019 10:04am

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Why do you ask? Are you the person who made all those complaints from Ongar?

Not me ! Just enquiring really if there was a way to know at what times the different flight paths are used or does it vary and if they stick to the flight paths.

smurfjed wrote: »

I had to google the location of ONGAR, I would be very surprised if an aircraft was making more noise that the N3 motorway.

OP have you tried setting up a decibel recorder on your phone to justify the claims?

I dont think I made any claims, just a question around how the flight paths are used. I have better things to do with my time then sending hundreds of complaints. I didn't even know about those reports. But thanks all for jumping on me for asking a simple question.

Stovepipe · 08-02-2019 11:47am

The flight paths used depend on weather, wind, runway in use( which can change at any time) and the ultimate destination of each aircraft after takes off. In recent times, a lot of the older flight paths were deleted or changed and now the approach and departure routes are sometimes shorter to save time and fuel. As an example, aircraft approaching Dublin from the direction of the Irish Sea, North or South take a turn inland to join the approach glideslope for Runway 28, closer than they used to. They don't fly over any housing and save time and fuel, compared to the old routine of joining much further out. Operations are also different for slower turboprops , which will fly at a lower altitude than jets, as they climb up to the altitude they will use enroute. Turboprops will also turn onto heading earlier than jets, which often have to climb to a minimum height before they can turn onto their headings. Noise is a constant consideration for all commercial aircraft and most airports operate some kind of noise restriction; the aircraft must climb to a minimum height over certain areas, must reduce power and climb at a shallower angle, may not operate into or out of certain airports after certain times and even in some cases, may not land or even make an approach after certain times. Aircraft are also restricted from operating near bird sanctuaries, military training areas, areas of outstanding natural beauty and other special sites unless they are over a minimum altitude.

faoiarvok · 08-02-2019 3:24pm

smurfjed wrote: »

Our transponder readout is the same as our altitude indicators which are based on a set pressure, either QNE/QNH/QFE.

I would have thought that FR gets that same altitude

Transponder transmits the level based on standard pressure, this is then corrected by ATC systems to the local QNH for display on screen. If it transmitted the level based on a possibly incorrect pressure setting, both yourself and ATC could be working off the same mistaken information. Transmitting based on standard pressure allows ATC to spot a discrepancy while checking your Mode C on contact.

smurfjed · 08-02-2019 4:06pm

Reading through our manuals, it says noting about the transponder only transmitting the altitude based on "standard" pressure.

"The DADC processes the air data inputs and provides digital and analog outputs to the: * ATC Transponders

Then we have...

The tuning adapter provides an interface between the transponder control unit and the TDR-90 transponder by
converting the control unit ARINC 429 serial data into the format that the transponder requires. It also provides
an interface between the DADCs and the transponder for pressure altitude data conversion."

Do you have reference on this that i can read?

faoiarvok · 08-02-2019 4:40pm

smurfjed wrote: »

Do you have reference on this that i can read?

Not the most readable document, but ICAO Annex 10 Volume IV

3.1.1.7.12.2.2 The information pulses shall be automatically selected by an analog-to-digital converter connected to a pressure-altitude data source in the aircraft referenced to the standard pressure setting of 1 013.25 hectopascals.

Note.— The pressure setting of 1 013.25 hectopascals is equal to 29.92 inches of mercury.

smurfjed · 08-02-2019 5:34pm

Thanks for the "light" bed time reading

Pat Dunne · 09-02-2019 2:55pm

robbie1876 wrote: »

545 complaints in January 2019 from one individual in Ongar. Jesus Christ....

Obviously someone obsessed by this issue, with an average of 17/18 complaints per day. The ironic thing this is that 10/28 has been operational for a very long time before the Ongar area was built.

Gaoth Laidir · 09-02-2019 4:34pm

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Obviously someone obsessed by this issue, with an average of 17/18 complaints per day. The ironic thing this is that 10/28 has been operational for a very long time before the Ongar area was built.

I'm beginning to think that person is so thick they're actually complaining about the traffic at Weston, not DUB. They probably don't know the difference between a C150 and a B737. There is no real noise problem over this area.

billie1b · 09-02-2019 10:20pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I'm beginning to think that person is so thick they're actually complaining about the traffic at Weston, not DUB. They probably don't know the difference between a C150 and a B737. There is no real noise problem over this area.

Very rarely get any traffic over Ongar from Weston, the closest you’d get it would be St.Catherines Park. The RWY28 take off flight path goes near enough to direct over Ongar with the departure turn directly over it, arrivals onto RWY10 are usually directly down the N3 on the opposite side of Ongar, down over Mulhuddart graveyard etc. Not that I have a problem with any of that, i’m in the Dublin 15 area my whole life (right under the flight path) 10 years in Ongar now and they turn literally over my house between 3-5000ft hardly ever hear or notice an aircraft going over anymore.

Pat Dunne · 09-02-2019 11:54pm

[HTML][/HTML]

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I'm beginning to think that person is so thick they're actually complaining about the traffic at Weston, not DUB. They probably don't know the difference between a C150 and a B737. There is no real noise problem over this area.

In all fairness the person concerned appears to be completely obsessed by aircraft noise.
To have the time and the where with all, to log 17 to 18 individual complains per day, 7 days a week, for an entire month and to continue to log sucessive high rates of complaints each month. Is someone who to my mind is obsessional and in possible need of assistance.
Calling them "thick" is not really necessary.

AnRothar · 10-02-2019 12:03am

QNH below the transition altitude.
Standard pressure above the transition level.

Nijmegen · 10-02-2019 10:21am

Pat Dunne wrote: »

[HTML][/HTML]

In all fairness the person concerned appears to be completely obsessed by aircraft noise.
To have the time and the where with all, to log 17 to 18 individual complains per day, 7 days a week, for an entire month and to continue to log sucessive high rates of complaints each month. Is someone who to my mind is obsessional and in possible need of assistance.
Calling them "thick" is not really necessary.

This is pretty much my reading of it.

Gaoth Laidir · 10-02-2019 11:12am

billie1b wrote: »

Very rarely get any traffic over Ongar from Weston, the closest you’d get it would be St.Catherines Park. The RWY28 take off flight path goes near enough to direct over Ongar with the departure turn directly over it, arrivals onto RWY10 are usually directly down the N3 on the opposite side of Ongar, down over Mulhuddart graveyard etc. Not that I have a problem with any of that, i’m in the Dublin 15 area my whole life (right under the flight path) 10 years in Ongar now and they turn literally over my house between 3-5000ft hardly ever hear or notice an aircraft going over anymore.

Sorry, I had a brain fart. For some reason I was mixing up Ongar with Adamstown. I take it all back. I guess I'm the one who's thick...

ProfessorPlum · 11-02-2019 10:20pm

billie1b wrote: »

Very rarely get any traffic over Ongar from Weston, the closest you’d get it would be St.Catherines Park. The RWY28 take off flight path goes near enough to direct over Ongar with the departure turn directly over it, arrivals onto RWY10 are usually directly down the N3 on the opposite side of Ongar, down over Mulhuddart graveyard etc. Not that I have a problem with any of that, i’m in the Dublin 15 area my whole life (right under the flight path) 10 years in Ongar now and they turn literally over my house between 3-5000ft hardly ever hear or notice an aircraft going over anymore.

The OE is about 4km north of Ongar, and the vast majority of 28 traffic will cross it above 3000ft with thrust back to climb. I suppose they’ll get the odd early left turn, but I can’t really see how it could be a massive problem there. Not to the tune of 545 times a month anyway!!

arccosh · 13-02-2019 10:22am

It's something I miss about Dubin funnily enough.... being close to the flight path... the quietness where I am now can make it feel strange at times

Bummer1234 · 13-02-2019 1:55pm

That one from ongar seems to have a serious issue....Does the DAA look into these individually?...

Head out to this ones house and investigate it and the poor statistics lad who compiles this report will be a lot quieter...I lived in ongar before and never had a issue will noisy a/c.

Kevin Finnerty · 19-02-2019 8:08pm

plodder wrote: »

You can check the actual flight paths taken on flightradar24.com. With a cheap subscription you can check back in time quite a considerable period..

Dunno whether it was worth it's own thread but yesterday on a flight from Lisbon to Dublin FR7329 about halfway through while looking out a port window a what looked like an ANA 787 (a very amateur guess) came under our plane from starboard. It looked close but is there any way to find out how close for free?

Lustrum · 19-02-2019 9:55pm

Kevin Finnerty wrote: »

Dunno whether it was worth it's own thread but yesterday on a flight from Lisbon to Dublin FR7329 about halfway through while looking out a port window a what looked like an ANA 787 (a very amateur guess) came under our plane from starboard. It looked close but is there any way to find out how close for free?

Minimum vertical separation is 1000ft, and I can guarantee you it was no less than 1000ft. Try looking back on flight radar and you might be able to find it

Kevin Finnerty · 19-02-2019 10:12pm

I can see its flight details and a playback of its flight path but nothing on planes in the neighhbourhood. 1000ft looks nothing in the air, just never saw it mid air before. And the speed of it all.

Brennus335 · 20-02-2019 2:48am

Kevin Finnerty wrote: »

while looking out a port window a what looked like an ANA 787 (a very amateur guess) came under our plane from starboard.

It's not a ship, so it's left and right.

Pat Dunne · 20-02-2019 9:02am

Brennus335 wrote: »

It's not a ship, so it's left and right.

Lights the Blue Touch paper and stands well back

Tenger · 20-02-2019 2:07pm

Brennus335 wrote: »

It's not a ship, so it's left and right.

But you still understood the reference so the terminology worked.

Brennus335 · 20-02-2019 6:15pm

Tenger wrote: »

But you still understood the reference so the terminology worked.

Aye, Aye, Capt'n

donkey balls · 22-02-2019 10:49pm

Just had a look at the DAA report and were I live is not even mentioned :mad: even though I'm right under the flight path, Must start sending in some complaints

I also noticed that Hansfield had 1 complaint which is right beside Ongar and other estates within the Clonee area not mentioned.

smurfjed · 28-02-2019 7:25am

Is there a similar APP for Dublin?

https://webtrak.emsbk.com/bqh2

01-03-2019 11:34am

Brennus335 wrote: »

It's not a ship, so it's left and right.

Which has more letters, left or right?
Which has more letters, port or starboard?
Which has more letters, red or green?

All the answers are on the same side.

Now that we’ve cleared that up, would you like your rattle back in your pram?

Flight Paths

Comments