Seniority

2xj3hplqgsbkym · 28-01-2019 11:26pm #1

I think this year and next are the last 2 years in which candidates are awarded marks for seniority in AP1 and AP11 interviews.

I have read that the most senior candidate is awarded 12 points and the next 9 points.
However can someone tell me if it is 12 points overall or 12 points in each of the 4 categories please? I have read the circulars and cannot make sense of it.
Thanks

ccazza · 28-01-2019 11:45pm

Elisa Mysterious Chalk wrote: »

I think this year and next are the last 2 years in which candidates are awarded marks for seniority in AP1 and AP11 interviews.

I have read that the most senior candidate is awarded 12 points and the next 9 points.
However can someone tell me if it is 12 points overall or 12 points in each of the 4 categories please? I have read the circulars and cannot make sense of it.
Thanks

It is 12 points in a seperate category for Seniority. The other categories are then 22 each until Seniority is removed. If you have maximum points you will get 36 points I.e. 12 points from each interviewer.

siulach · 28-01-2019 11:46pm

Elisa Mysterious Chalk wrote: »

I think this year and next are the last 2 years in which candidates are awarded marks for seniority in AP1 and AP11 interviews.

I have read that the most senior candidate is awarded 12 points and the next 9 points.
However can someone tell me if it is 12 points overall or 12 points in each of the 4 categories please? I have read the circulars and cannot make sense of it.
Thanks

It's 12 points overall. Then 22 marks for each of the 4 categories, 2 questions per category, 11 marks each

2xj3hplqgsbkym · 29-01-2019 12:40am

siulach wrote: »

It's 12 points overall. Then 22 marks for each of the 4 categories, 2 questions per category, 11 marks each

Sorry but still not grasping this fully ðŸ˜¬
12 points for seniority from each interviewer?
So 36 points on top of a possible 264 (3 interviewers at a possible 88 each), is that correct?

deiseindublin · 29-01-2019 1:06am

Seniority is given a maximum of 12 points for interview.

The candidate with the highest service is awarded max marks (12) and their service is then used to divide the marks into quarters, giving either 3, 6, 9 or 12 marks.

So, teacher X has 24 years service, the highest service for the API. This is 12 marks.
Teacher Y has 19 years service so will get (24 / 4 = 6 years service needed per quarter of the 12 marks. Teacher Y will get the full 12 marks because they are in the top quarter).

Teacher Z has 5 years service so is in the bottom quarter so will get only 3 (bottom quarter so only 3 marks) etc etc.

All candidates could possibly get the full 12 marks.

ccazza · 29-01-2019 8:17pm

Elisa Mysterious Chalk wrote: »

Sorry but still not grasping this fully &#55357;&#56876;
12 points for seniority from each interviewer?
So 36 points on top of a possible 264 (3 interviewers at a possible 88 each), is that correct?

Yes.

rainbowtrout · 29-01-2019 9:09pm

There is an awful lot of incorrect information on this thread that mods need to remove ASAP, aside from deise's post which is correct.

There are currently 5 categories where you can get marked:

Seniority is worth 12 and the other four are 22 each.

1. Leading Learning and Teaching 22 marks
2. Managing an Organisation 22 marks
3. Leading School Development 22 marks
4. Developing leadership capacity 22 marks
5. Seniority 12 marks

You get marked out of 100 in total, by a panel who collectively decide your mark. Each member of the panel does not grade you.

The seniority one is marked in increments of 3: 3, 6, 9, 12.

The marks for seniority are awarded pro-rata. The teacher who has the longest service determines what the maximum service is and the years are divided into four quarters and the marks awarded accordingly.

If the longest serving teacher has 20 years completed then the marks for seniority are awarded as follows:

12 marks: 16-20 years
9 marks: 11-15 years
6 marks: 6-10 years
3 marks 1-5 years

You are then marked out of 22 for each of the other categories. It's all in circular 0003/2018.

I did AP1 interview recently. This is the scenario that happened in my school recently. Most senior teacher had 21 years. Next two (including me) had 18 and 19 years. Next teacher had 11 or 12 years and two others 7-8 years.

So the top three got 12 marks for seniority, next one got 9 and last two got 6.

Moody_mona · 29-01-2019 9:25pm

Deiseindublin is there a mistake then in your teacher Z scenario?

ccazza · 29-01-2019 9:50pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There is an awful lot of incorrect information on this thread that mods need to remove ASAP, aside from deise's post which is correct.

There are currently 5 categories where you can get marked:

Seniority is worth 12 and the other four are 22 each.

1. Leading Learning and Teaching 22 marks
2. Managing an Organisation 22 marks
3. Leading School Development 22 marks
4. Developing leadership capacity 22 marks
5. Seniority 12 marks

You get marked out of 100 in total, by a panel who collectively decide your mark. Each member of the panel does not grade you.

The seniority one is marked in increments of 3: 3, 6, 9, 12.

The marks for seniority are awarded pro-rata. The teacher who has the longest service determines what the maximum service is and the years are divided into four quarters and the marks awarded accordingly.

If the longest serving teacher has 20 years completed then the marks for seniority are awarded as follows:

12 marks: 16-20 years
9 marks: 11-15 years
6 marks: 6-10 years
3 marks 1-5 years

You are then marked out of 22 for each of the other categories. It's all in circular 0003/2018.

I did AP1 interview recently. This is the scenario that happened in my school recently. Most senior teacher had 21 years. Next two (including me) had 18 and 19 years. Next teacher had 11 or 12 years and two others 7-8 years.

So the top three got 12 marks for seniority, next one got 9 and last two got 6.

We also had interviews in our school recently and each person who interviewed scored separately and the total for the interviews was out of 300 so I guess different schools are doing it differently. In our situation the most Senior people scored 12 from each interviewer and then each interviewer marked out of 22 for the 4 remaining categories. Applicants could score 300 max from the interview.

rainbowtrout · 29-01-2019 10:12pm

ccazza wrote: »

We also had interviews in our school recently and each person who interviewed scored separately and the total for the interviews was out of 300 so I guess different schools are doing it differently. In our situation the most Senior people scored 12 from each interviewer and then each interviewer marked out of 22 for the 4 remaining categories. Applicants could score 300 max from the interview.

Then your school is not following the circular. That would be grounds for appeal. Scores are out of 100.

ccazza · 29-01-2019 10:41pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Then your school is not following the circular. That would be grounds for appeal. Scores are out of 100.

I will check that out tomorrow but I presume they were using scoring sheets supplied by JMB. When I did my AP1 interview on old system I was also marked out of 300, 100 from each interviewer. They usually follow procedures really rigidly in our school so I’d be surprised if they hadn’t done this correctly.

2xj3hplqgsbkym · 29-01-2019 10:50pm

ccazza wrote: »

We also had interviews in our school recently and each person who interviewed scored separately and the total for the interviews was out of 300 so I guess different schools are doing it differently. In our situation the most Senior people scored 12 from each interviewer and then each interviewer marked out of 22 for the 4 remaining categories. Applicants could score 300 max from the interview.

Yes I think this is the same for my school. The most senior candidate got 257, I got 208.
It just gives a total for each category e.g. managing an organization 57 marks.

ccazza · 29-01-2019 11:00pm

Elisa Mysterious Chalk wrote: »

Yes I think this is the same for my school. The most senior candidate got 257, I got 208.
It just gives a total for each category e.g. managing an organization 57 marks.

Is your school a voluntary secondary. We are. I wonder are ETB schools scoring differently? Is your school ETB Rainbowtrout?

deiseindublin · 30-01-2019 12:18am

Moody_mona wrote: »

Deiseindublin is there a mistake then in your teacher Z scenario?

Yep, fixed it. Was meant to type 5, not 10 for cand. x.

rainbowtrout · 30-01-2019 12:31am

ccazza wrote: »

Is your school a voluntary secondary. We are. I wonder are ETB schools scoring differently? Is your school ETB Rainbowtrout?

Yes it is. It doesn't say anywhere that multiple marks can be awarded to the candidate by the interview panel in the circular and it doesn't differentiate between vol sec school/ETB/ Comprehensive, except for the make up of the interview panel.

2xj3hplqgsbkym · 30-01-2019 9:44am

ccazza wrote: »

Is your school a voluntary secondary. We are. I wonder are ETB schools scoring differently? Is your school ETB Rainbowtrout?

Yes voluntary secondary

Notorious · 30-01-2019 10:03pm

ccazza wrote: »

Is your school a voluntary secondary. We are. I wonder are ETB schools scoring differently? Is your school ETB Rainbowtrout?

I'm in an ETB and we get scored out of 100. 22 marks per category as others have stated above.

Anyone know when seniority is being removed from as a category? I heard in a union meeting that it'd be gone in the next school year.

rainbowtrout · 30-01-2019 10:13pm

Yes, it's next year. It's in the circular, rather the seniority marks only count for 17/18 and 18/19 school year.

Sheeps101 · 09-02-2019 9:53am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Then your school is not following the circular. That would be grounds for appeal. Scores are out of 100.

Obviously divide it by three to get the average. Nothing wrong with that

chases0102 · 28-02-2019 12:54pm

So if the teacher with most experience had 13 years, and the one with least experience had 6 years, how does that equate with the scoring system?

rainbowtrout · 28-02-2019 1:34pm

chases0102 wrote: »

So if the teacher with most experience had 13 years, and the one with least experience had 6 years, how does that equate with the scoring system?

Divide 13 in four quarters

12 marks 9.75 - 13 years
9 marks 6.5 - 9.75 years
6 marks 3.25 - 6.5 years
3 marks 0 - 3.25 years

I don't know if they round years or not, I would presume they do. I think years of service are usually counted as full years of service.

so effectively it would be

12: 10-13
9: 7-9
6: 4-6
3: 0-3

The person with 13 years would get 12 marks and the person with 6 years would get 6 marks I reckon.

Frankly frank · 03-03-2019 12:10pm

What are people's experiences of having moved schools ( permanent/CID) ?
What were reasons?
What is worth it?
What were advantages/disadvantages ?

ethical · 07-03-2019 7:01pm

This whole Post System is a joke.The names in the top pocket is still very much to the fore in the West of Ireland.The amount of money wasted is criminal.But no one takes a blind bit of notice! If certain ETBs were investigated like the KWETB were there would be uproar .........and quite a lote of money saved in the long term. Unions do not want to know the stuff that goes on as in some cases they are getting a nice back hander to say the right thing etc.

There must be something seriously wrong when we know who will get posts before the interviews are held!
A Mayo school had to re interview recently due to "mismanagement" of post interviews.It was a voluntary secondary.
The ETB are too cute to get caught out,they spend/waste more money in the process but **** themselves until the appeals deadline passes before they tell the candidate formally that they have the post.......eventhough the new post recipient is aware they are "successful" way before the appeals deadline. Should there be an appeal they get a Senior Legal Eagle to sit in and try and scare the appellant.......but it dosent always work!!!!!!!!

rainbowtrout · 08-03-2019 5:38pm

ethical wrote: »

This whole Post System is a joke.The names in the top pocket is still very much to the fore in the West of Ireland.The amount of money wasted is criminal.But no one takes a blind bit of notice! If certain ETBs were investigated like the KWETB were there would be uproar .........and quite a lote of money saved in the long term. Unions do not want to know the stuff that goes on as in some cases they are getting a nice back hander to say the right thing etc.

There must be something seriously wrong when we know who will get posts before the interviews are held!
A Mayo school had to re interview recently due to "mismanagement" of post interviews.It was a voluntary secondary.
The ETB are too cute to get caught out,they spend/waste more money in the process but **** themselves until the appeals deadline passes before they tell the candidate formally that they have the post.......eventhough the new post recipient is aware they are "successful" way before the appeals deadline. Should there be an appeal they get a Senior Legal Eagle to sit in and try and scare the appellant.......but it dosent always work!!!!!!!!

This is not true.

You cannot have an appeals deadline pass without candidates being informed of who was successful and who was not. The appeal deadline happens as a result of the recommended candidates being notified (and obviously the unsuccessful candidates likewise). I was unsuccessful earlier this year. I appealed, for many of the reasons you outlined in your first paragraph. I won my appeal. I was not called to an oral hearing such was the overwhelming evidence in my favour, and another candidates favour.

I'm not going to go into the details here for anonymity.

ethical · 09-03-2019 10:17am

Rainbowtrout,you are a person of great knowledge and are a great benefit to this forum and I thank you for this.

I was shocked when I heard the above(previous post) carry on by the ETB went unpunished.No matter what is in writing,no matter what the guidelines are ,unless you are a member of their Golden Circle you you are peeing against the wind in your honest approach to get a post in some ETBs!

rainbowtrout · 09-03-2019 6:36pm

ethical wrote: »

Rainbowtrout,you are a person of great knowledge and are a great benefit to this forum and I thank you for this.

I was shocked when I heard the above(previous post) carry on by the ETB went unpunished.No matter what is in writing,no matter what the guidelines are ,unless you are a member of their Golden Circle you you are peeing against the wind in your honest approach to get a post in some ETBs!

If someone has been absolutely shafted with regards a post in an ETB, they have to take it further. It's hard to comment on it without full details, but first stop is the appeals system, and then if that doesn't work, consider legal advice I guess.

Dickie10 · 11-03-2019 1:02pm

i see some teachers were doing interviews in my school for things called "A posts " ,could anyone tell me what they are ? i was sitting in the staff room the other day and they were all talking about this stuff, i hadnt a clue what they were on about.

rainbowtrout · 11-03-2019 2:05pm

Dickie10 wrote: »

i see some teachers were doing interviews in my school for things called "A posts " ,could anyone tell me what they are ? i was sitting in the staff room the other day and they were all talking about this stuff, i hadnt a clue what they were on about.

They are promotional posts within schools. Informally they are known as A posts and B posts. A is more senior than B. Those teachers that have posts get paid an allowance (€8520 for an A post and €3769 for a B post) for doing extra duties. In ETB schools an A post holder's teaching timetable is reduced from 22 to 18 hours. I believe this is not the case in secondary schools.

Dickie10 · 11-03-2019 4:47pm

oh i see , i presumed they were something like that alright. thanks for clearing that up. apart from the money is there any other advantage to having these posts? would they be something a teacher with low hours would go after or something?

rainbowtrout · 11-03-2019 5:33pm

Dickie10 wrote: »

oh i see , i presumed they were something like that alright. thanks for clearing that up. apart from the money is there any other advantage to having these posts? would they be something a teacher with low hours would go after or something?

They are quite sought after as there are so few opportunities for promotion in teaching. You’d generally want to have plenty of experience so if you’re there that long you’d probably have full hours

Dickie10 · 11-03-2019 9:08pm

cool ok thanks , nice to know these things!

Seniority

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