Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ireland and the EU Post Brexit

Options
24

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    sophiexyz wrote: »
    Politicians say one thing for public consumption, and another behind closed doors.
    Barroso EU BOSS now works for Goldman sachs
    Junker, moans about Tax avoidance , but what did he do for Amazon when he was president of Luxembourg?
    The politician are fully behind Irish tax laws, look where the politicians go to work when they retire from politics
    I'll be honest: I'm not sure what this has to do with proposed tax harmonization?


  • Options
    #33
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    First Up wrote: »
    But tax harmonisation will not happen.

    Not voluntarily, that is you can't 'push' someone into making a decision but you can certainly 'pull' them in a certain direction.

    Under any future austerity scenario, countries within the union have and can be pressured into e.g. increasing pension ages, liquidating assets, playing around with the average working hour weeks and so on.

    Corp tax is just another tool that could be open to 'influence or pressure'.


  • Options
    #34
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Jaxon Stocky Machine wrote: »
    Not voluntarily, that is you can't 'push' someone into making a decision but you can certainly 'pull' them in a certain direction.
    Can anyone logically explain why they are against the tax harmonization proposals? Or is this just the typical Politics forum complaining about things people know nothing about?


    Not specifically directed at you... this is an open invitation to anyone to explain their fear of proposed harmonization.


  • Options
    #35
    sophiexyz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 38 ✭sophiexyz


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    I'll be honest: I'm not sure what this has to do with proposed tax harmonization?

    Politicians say one thing in public and another behind closed doors.
    They are full of lies, only looking out frothier pay masters, and that aint us , its businesses
    Google Nick Clegg.
    NICK Clegg has bought a £6.8million mansion in California as he begins his £1million job as Facebook's top spin doctor.
    I suppose he got that job on talent, and not for favours he done in the past?


  • Options
    #36
    sophiexyz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 38 ✭sophiexyz


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Can anyone logically explain why they are against the tax harmonization proposals? Or is this just the typical Politics forum complaining about things people know nothing about?


    Not specifically directed at you... this is an open invitation to anyone to explain their fear of proposed harmonization.

    Because they are lies!
    Politicians are not in favour, its just a bashing of ireland and its tax laws, plays well within their own countries, but they would **** twice and die if Ireland agreed to the changes .


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    sophiexyz wrote: »
    Politicians say one thing in public and another behind closed doors.
    They are full of lies, only looking out frothier pay masters, and that aint us , its businesses
    Google Nick Clegg.
    NICK Clegg has bought a £6.8million mansion in California as he begins his £1million job as Facebook's top spin doctor.
    I suppose he got that job on talent, and not for favours he done in the past?
    Genuinely, you can't buy a mansion in SF for £6.8m - Clegg bought a house.


  • Options
    #38
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    sophiexyz wrote: »
    Because they are lies!
    Politicians are not in favour, its just a bashing of ireland and its tax laws, plays well within their own countries, but they would **** twice and die if Ireland agreed to the changes .
    So you can't explain anything about it?


  • Options
    #39
    sophiexyz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 38 ✭sophiexyz


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    So you can't explain anything about it?

    I Have explained, but you are in denial, politicians are only in it for themselves, i gave you several examples, the fact is the politicians could but dont change the law regarding the payment of tax, what more proof do you require to see the blustering about Irish tax laws is only to garner support in the politicians home country.
    They would **** twice & die if Ireland agreed to tax harmonisation, the politicians pay masters would not be happy


  • Options
    #40
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    sophiexyz wrote: »
    I Have explained, but you are in denial, politicians are only in it for themselves, i gave you several examples, the fact is the politicians could but dont change the law regarding the payment of tax, what more proof do you require to see the blustering about Irish tax laws is only to garner support in the politicians home country.
    They would **** twice & die if Ireland agreed to tax harmonisation, the politicians pay masters would not be happy
    You haven't explained a thing. You haven't even indicated that you know what tax harmonization is...

    All you've done is rant about politicians.


  • Options
    #41
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Can anyone logically explain why they are against the tax harmonization proposals?

    When you say 'they', do you mean the Ire Gov?
    When you say harmonisation, we are refering to 'corporation tax' specifically, yes?

    AFAIK Dublin is very pleased with the 12.5% and the direct inward investment because of it, can the same be said for all other EU states?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Jaxon Stocky Machine wrote: »
    When you say 'they', do you mean the Ire Gov?
    I don't particularly agree with the Irish Government's opposition to the proposed tax harmonization proposals, but no; I'm not asking the Irish Government on boards.ie why they disagree with it, quite obviously I'd suggest.
    When you say harmonisation, we are refering to 'corporation tax' specifically, yes?
    When I say harmonization I'm discussing the only proposal on the table from the EU in relation to corporation tax. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that when people discuss things on a "serious" politics forum that they know what they are discussing.

    Feel free to prove me correct/incorrect on this point as you deem fit.

    But yes, I'm talking about corporation tax harmonization as proposed by the EU.
    AFAIK Dublin is very pleased with the 12.5% and the direct inward investment because of it, can the same be said for all other EU states?
    I'm sure that the companies that incorrectly claim this rate on European and international sales do enjoy the rate, but I'm not sure I understand the logic or the point of allowing this to continue? :confused:


  • Options
    #43
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    ^Not sure really what point your trying to make, it's a simple scenario with two aspects:

    Ireland is very pleased (as are investors) with having low corp tax, but the vast majority of the EU isn't.
    Ireland can't be forced to increase the rate, but under circumstances can be 'pressured' into having a 'harmonic' rise.

    If you (FS^) have to ask if/what the negative effects would be of adding 10% or so overnight to CT, well....


  • Options
    #44
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    FreudianSlippers wrote:
    Tax harmonization must and will happen. It's abjectly wrong to move income from the country in which it is incurred to a tax-friendly nation. In fact, Ireland's tax friendliness could become irrelevant tomorrow if another Member State decided to slash its rates. It's very short-sighted to object to harmonization when the bigger picture of rejecting it is either (i) loss of sovereignty of rates (unlikely) or (ii) competition on rates within the EU.

    That isn't tax harmonisation. Of course tax should be levied where the taxable income is generated but that has nothing to do with forcing Greece or Romania for example to have the same rates of corporation tax as Germany, Holland or Ireland


  • Options
    #45
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Jaxon Stocky Machine wrote:
    Ireland is very pleased (as are investors) with having low corp tax, but the vast majority of the EU isn't. Ireland can't be forced to increase the rate, but under circumstances can be 'pressured' into having a 'harmonic' rise.


    There is nothing to stop any EU country offering the same - or lower- tax rate as Ireland.


  • Options
    #46
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Jaxon Stocky Machine wrote: »
    ^Not sure really what point your trying to make,

    It's not my fault you don't know about tax harmonization proposals is it?

    it's a simple scenario with two aspects:

    Ireland is very pleased (as are investors) with having low corp tax, but the vast majority of the EU isn't.

    Not relevant to proposed tax harmonization.

    Ireland can't be forced to increase the rate,

    Correct.
    but under circumstances can be 'pressured' into having a 'harmonic' rise.
    Not really.
    If you (FS^) have to ask if/what the negative effects would be of adding 10% or so overnight to CT, well....
    Can you please show where I made that claim. Otherwise, awaiting apology for misrepresenting my position.
    First Up wrote: »
    That isn't tax harmonisation. Of course tax should be levied where the taxable income is generated but that has nothing to do with forcing Greece or Romania for example to have the same rates of corporation tax as Germany, Holland or Ireland


  • Options
    #47
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    First Up wrote: »
    That isn't tax harmonisation.
    Isn't it?

    Isn't it correct to say that the only EU proposed tax harmonization is that...
    Of course tax should be levied where the taxable income is generated

    Or are you suggesting that there is any proposal that "tax harmonization" has anything to do with CT rates?


  • Options
    #48
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    FreudianSlippers wrote:
    Or are you suggesting that there is any proposal that "tax harmonization" has anything to do with CT rates?

    That's what harmonisation means.


  • Options
    #49
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Not really.

    Not really? Ah, in the same way Greece wasn't asked to bend over and take a large dose of EU austerity measures?


  • Options
    #50
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Or are you suggesting that there is any proposal that "tax harmonization" has anything to do with CT rates?

    You can dance around words and terms (digital tax recommedations and so on), but one of the main topics of conversation in Davos (again) was regarding the CT Rate (in it's most basic universal form) - of countries such as Ireland

    i.e. 'An unfair or un-level playing field', as it's often refered to by the EU.


  • Options
    #51
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Jaxon Stocky Machine wrote:
    Not really? Ah, in the same way Greece wasn't asked to bend over and take a large dose of EU austerity measures?

    They were also given quite a lot EU money.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    Schnitzler Hiyori Geta
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭Schnitzler Hiyori Geta


    First Up wrote: »
    That's what harmonisation means.
    It actually isn't. Tax harmonisation proposals are about where tax is paid and not the rate at which tax is paid.


  • Options
    #53
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    First Up wrote: »
    They were also given quite a lot EU money.

    Not for free though.


  • Options
    #54
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »
    It actually isn't. Tax harmonisation proposals are about where tax is paid and not the rate at which tax is paid.

    Technically, but is it not the '%rate harmonistation'? (harmonic in the sense of 'similar' not exact matching rates), which is the main overwhelming issue.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irish-tax-rate-blow-as-europe-demands-level-playing-field-459015.html

    And which the vast membership (and European Commission) would like to see, again for a more 'level playing field'

    Seems folks here are happy to dance around the main issue with technicalities.


  • Options
    #55
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Jaxon Stocky Machine wrote:
    Not for free though.


    Well of course not. Neither were we.


  • Options
    #56
    Schnitzler Hiyori Geta
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭Schnitzler Hiyori Geta


    Jaxon Stocky Machine wrote: »
    Technically, but is it not the '%rate harmonistation'? (harmonic in the sense of 'similar' not exact matching rates), which is the main overwhelming issue.
    No, there is no question of tax rates in relation to harmonisation at all.


  • Options
    #57
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »
    No, there is no question of tax rates in relation to harmonisation at all.

    But is there a question or desire by the EC and it's members for countries such as Ireland to consider creating a more 'level playing field' in 'specific' terms of corporation taxe rates? (not where it's paid).

    You're implying they're all rather jolly about 12.5%, and that it hasn't even crossed their minds if it should be higher...


  • Options
    #58
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Whither Ireland?

    Irexit.

    Like most citizens I'd greatly prefer if our Republic stayed within the EU but almost regardless of how the UK leaves the EU (if they do), there will a shock to us. Combine this with almost certainly rising prices for food and consumer goods, a loss of a friend at the EU table, remoteness and peripherality, difficulties with all island relationships plus the healthy skepticism that many people here have for the EU... the pressure will inexorably build for us also to leave. It's as logical as night follows day.


  • Options
    #59
    Schnitzler Hiyori Geta
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭Schnitzler Hiyori Geta


    Jaxon Stocky Machine wrote: »
    But is there a question or desire by the EC and it's members for countries such as Ireland to consider creating a more 'level playing field' in 'specific' terms of corporation taxe rates? (not where it's paid).
    No.
    You're implying they're all rather jolly about 12.5%, and that it hasn't even crossed their minds if it should be higher...
    It doesn't matter - tax rates are the competence of individual Member States. There is no desire in the EU on any level to "harmonise" tax rates in Member States. That would be a slippery slope that nobody would touch if you even thought about the knock-on effects for a second - VAT, property, income, etc. - it's a disaster that everyone is avoiding.

    The only question of harmonisation in the EU is that of movement of (particularly "digital") income from one Member State to another with a lower tax rate. The fundamental principle of harmonisation of corporation tax in the EU is that it ought to be paid where it is incurred. There, despite fear-mongering from anyone, is no other issue on the table at all.


  • Options
    #60
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »
    No.

    Yes. There is clearly a desire for this.
    Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »
    It doesn't matter - tax rates are the competence of individual Member States. There is no desire in the EU on any level to "harmonise" tax rates in Member States. That would be a slippery slope that nobody would touch if you even thought about the knock-on effects for a second - VAT, property, income, etc. - it's a disaster that everyone is avoiding.

    The only question of harmonisation in the EU is that of movement of (particularly "digital") income from one Member State to another with a lower tax rate. The fundamental principle of harmonisation of corporation tax in the EU is that it ought to be paid where it is incurred. There, despite fear-mongering from anyone, is no other issue on the table at all.

    Aside from 'digital' you can be assured haromonisation of all aspects of daily life and taxes are the long-term objective. It's never by enforcement, but through agreement, and through subtle pressure.

    Incase you haven't heard there are plans for an EU Army underway, proposals include a Franco-German defence and security council.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Irexit.

    Like most citizens I'd greatly prefer if our Republic stayed within the EU but almost regardless of how the UK leaves the EU (if they do), there will a shock to us. Combine this with almost certainly rising prices for food and consumer goods, a loss of a friend at the EU table, remoteness and peripherality, difficulties with all island relationships plus the healthy skepticism that many people here have for the EU... the pressure will inexorably build for us also to leave. It's as logical as night follows day.

    Irexit is unlikely anytime soon, the markets indicate there are 7 EU states more likely (including now, France) to leave.

    Italy would be the next 'exit' country, if/when they decide to take that path.

    However post-brexit (if it actually happens) could change circumstances.


Advertisement