Stove VS Half job of New Windows for keeping warm

ted1 · 12-02-2019 12:47pm

cormie wrote: »

I was advised previously in another HUGE thread which had all kinds of stove experts and everything to go for a stove without the back boiler and to get an independent boiler. This was even the advice from a guy who sold clearview stoves and would probably make more money off an install/stove with a back boiler

Thanks, I sent them a PM to ask who did it!

I think they already took advantage of this, I'll get them to check if there's any further improvements they can get a grant for though, thanks!

The problem is they can't afford to do all windows now, so it'd do very little for heat retention to just replace not even half the windows.

As Greebo mentions above, they use the open fire a lot anyway, so a stove install seems to be the best option for now, both to block up the chimney when the fire isn't in use, to get more efficient heat from the fuel being burned, and it would also be a lot easier for them in terms of the burn rate of fuel and cost them less to stock on fuel too, and if they are just using hardwood, it'll be cleaner etc too. They love to sit in front of the fire, so a stove would add an extra element of comfort as opposed to the heat savings.

By the time you get a stove fitted and the chimney properly lined. You are looking at about 2.5k

Doing the bedroom windows and main living space will make a huge difference

Shefwedfan · 12-02-2019 1:26pm

cormie wrote: »

I was advised previously in another HUGE thread which had all kinds of stove experts and everything to go for a stove without the back boiler and to get an independent boiler. This was even the advice from a guy who sold clearview stoves and would probably make more money off an install/stove with a back boiler

It personal choice. I had one house just with stove to heat a room. The room would be roasted and the rest of the house cold unless you turned on the gas heating....

I used to open the door to try and get the heat around the house but didnt work

Current house has 2 stoves. One room heater and one connected to heaing system.

The room heater is good because the room is huge but most days we light the one connected to heating, it will burn away all day and keep the whole house nicely warm, it will just keep the radiator warm which is great, so most days if it is going we dont kick on the oil heating.....

I would not have the stove as a standalone heating system but it is great as a backup option

denismc · 12-02-2019 3:43pm

So I was asked about an energy survey I had done recently.
I moved into my current house over 2 years ago but I didn't know its construction history but there were a couple of cold rooms in the house.

Now in most houses there are several obvious places where heat is lost e.g open fireplace, bad door and window seals. Then there places where the heat being lost is not obvious e.g gaps in insulation, thermal bridging etc.
The only way to identify hidden heat loss is by doing a comprehensive energy survey.

My survey consisted of an air tightness report, thermal imaging to show cold spots and a list of recommendations at the end.

The final report was over 36 pages with thermal images of every part of the house.
The cost to me was 400 euro and not thousands as another poster suggested, and it was well worth it imo.

Turns out the big issue in my house was airtightness with a figure of

11.5 m
3/hr/m2.

I have attached a few screenshots of my report below to give an idea of what it contains and I have added the link to the engineers website below ( he is in Cork but there are any number of engineers around the country that offer similar services)
http://www.snip.ie/

denismc · 12-02-2019 4:20pm

Apologies for the bad editing in the post above.

I am not allowed post the companies name publically so if anyone wants the name of the company in the post above send me a PM.

The company is based in Cork but they may travel.

cormie · 12-02-2019 6:23pm

That sounds like a pretty good investment for €400! Does that include the blower test mentioned above too?

Shefwedfan, now I remember a little better, I think it was suggested to have an up and downstairs option on the boiler, so you could heat the upstairs rads only with the boiler, and then the downstairs would be heated with the stove. The open fire does a good enough job of heating the living room and kitchen at the moment, so there's no reason the stove wouldn't either I guess? Could maybe even put the hall rad on the upstairs half, so the doors to the hall leading upstairs can be kept closedand the hall will still be warm too.

Ted1, yep I recall the stove and lining costing around that much, but that'd be the full job done and the chimney blocked... whereas that same money spend on 3 windows would still leave more than half the windows left as well as the big air sucking chimney open and a less efficient heating system in the open fire and higher cost to keep it burning.

Muahahaha · 12-02-2019 8:42pm

Just on grants- as they are elderly they should check out the Warmer Homes scheme by the SEAI. The scheme is run on behalf of the SEAI by www.kore.ie who do a lot of commerical insulation jobs. Windows though are generally not included on it but they do sometimes make exceptions and maybe elderly people with single glazing might be one such exception.

Also OP if you want to track draughts without going to the expense of blower or infra red testing then think of buying a smoke pen which are good for finding out where the exactly the cold air is coming in. They're about 20 quid and on Amazon, ebay, etc.

ted1 · 13-02-2019 4:05am

cormie wrote: »

That sounds like a pretty good investment for €400! Does that include the blower test mentioned above too?

Shefwedfan, now I remember a little better, I think it was suggested to have an up and downstairs option on the boiler, so you could heat the upstairs rads only with the boiler, and then the downstairs would be heated with the stove. The open fire does a good enough job of heating the living room and kitchen at the moment, so there's no reason the stove wouldn't either I guess? Could maybe even put the hall rad on the upstairs half, so the doors to the hall leading upstairs can be kept closedand the hall will still be warm too.

Ted1, yep I recall the stove and lining costing around that much, but that'd be the full job done and the chimney blocked... whereas that same money spend on 3 windows would still leave more than half the windows left as well as the big air sucking chimney open and a less efficient heating system in the open fire and higher cost to keep it burning.

And not doing the Windows’s means the house will always be Baltic unless the stive is lit. And asi said if it’s heating the house the room it’s in will be too uncomfortable

enfant terrible · 13-02-2019 4:29am

denismc wrote: »

So I was asked about an energy survey I had done recently.
I moved into my current house over 2 years ago but I didn't know its construction history but there were a couple of cold rooms in the house.

How would you go about removing drafts from sockets, ceiling lights and skirting boards etc?

GreeBo · 13-02-2019 10:06am

enfant terrible wrote: »

How would you go about removing drafts from sockets, ceiling lights and skirting boards etc?

Unless you are doing a retro all you can really do is seal around the outside of the items with some caulk.
You could take the sockets and play around with expanding foam but thats going to be much more hassle and there are safety implications when encasing cables in foam.

Second floor ceiling lights can be addressed from the attic.

If you are more adventurous you can remove the skirting and foam the gap between your plasterboard and the floor and then replace the skirting. Note that this (along with any other remediation) can result in increasing the draft somewhere else.
Better to try to find the source of the airflow (often there is nothing in the attic to seal between the cavities in your walls and there was a thread on here recently about ways to remedy that)

cormie · 13-02-2019 6:26pm

ted1 wrote: »

And not doing the Windows’s means the house will always be Baltic unless the stive is lit. And asi said if it’s heating the house the room it’s in will be too uncomfortable

Thanks, would only be looking for it to heat the sitting room and kitchen, then have the upstairs rads separated from the downstairs ones for when the stove is on

Shefwedfan · 13-02-2019 7:01pm

Personally I would do windows first and then start internally jobs like stove

Yes the stove will put out great heat but it will go straight out the windows/doors...

If the fire is already providing good heat then with new windows etc it will provide better heat while they look at stove longer term. Also it will heat the house

You could even look at a firedoor to make it more efficient: https://www.heatdesign.ie/product/causeway-fire-door/

These are low cost, so when not using the fire it also blocks the draft from the fireplace......

cormie · 13-02-2019 11:13pm

Thanks for the suggestion!

I was more thinking, say with a current budget of 3K, this might only get 3 windows, leaving 5 windows and the back door and the fireplace still sucking out the warm air, so rather than spend it here, get a stove fitted which will save money on fuel, be cleaner, be easier for the person to light and fuel the fire (no heavy buckets of coal and shovelling etc), one or two logs every few hours, then block the chimney from sucking air out when not in use... Then you'd still have money for a survey if similar can be gotten as above for €400, then with this info, spend €100 or so on some foam strips and maybe some filling around problem areas, then with lower fuel and electricity costs, this would then mean a shorter time to save up for windows.

Also, perhaps there's even some grant available to change to a stove or get a survey done or something like that, so it could work out far better to explore these options since they have already found out they can't get windows on any scheme.

Shefwedfan · 13-02-2019 11:26pm

Just be warned the stove will burn fuel

I have a big 30KW one connected to heating, it will eat a full 20kg bag of coal in no time

The 8kw green rooom heater not as much but it does burn fuel quickly

cormie · 14-02-2019 12:32am

Given we've been talking about drafts, I think the quality of stove can make a big difference with burning efficiency and rate too. I'd be suggesting they go for one of these based on advice I've gotten before, they are meant to get hours from a decent sized single hardwood log: https://cdsf.co.uk

denismc · 14-02-2019 1:10am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Just be warned the stove will burn fuel

I have a big 30KW one connected to heating, it will eat a full 20kg bag of coal in no time

The 8kw green rooom heater not as much but it does burn fuel quickly

30 KW! that's some size of a stove!

I have a 7KW Kingstar inset woodburning stove, its basically a rebranded Thorma stove from Slovakia.
We light it every day and it has cost us 300 Euro in wood so far this winter.

As for windows! some heavy curtains will do a lot for heat retention if you can't afford to replace windows in the short term.

Shefwedfan · 14-02-2019 11:17am

denismc wrote: »

30 KW! that's some size of a stove!

I have a 7KW Kingstar inset woodburning stove, its basically a rebranded Thorma stove from Slovakia.
We light it every day and it has cost us 300 Euro in wood so far this winter.

As for windows! some heavy curtains will do a lot for heat retention if you can't afford to replace windows in the short term.

It's a beast of a yoke, you can stick in half a tree into it :-)

https://www.mylovelystove.com/product/hamco-glenmore-30b-boiler-stove/

GreeBo · 14-02-2019 12:19pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It's a beast of a yoke, you can stick in half a tree into it :-)

https://www.mylovelystove.com/product/hamco-glenmore-30b-boiler-stove/

What space is that heating?
Seems like it would have to be oversized and hence inefficient.

Similar to when people buy a bigger gas boiler as it must be better, but actually it just never runs efficiently and will be more prone to breakdowns.

Shefwedfan · 14-02-2019 12:34pm

GreeBo wrote: »

What space is that heating?
Seems like it would have to be oversized and hence inefficient.

Similar to when people buy a bigger gas boiler as it must be better, but actually it just never runs efficiently and will be more prone to breakdowns.

3,000+ sq ft house, 20+ radiators

Was installed before I bought house, maybe a little too big now after renovation work but no point swapping now

Stove VS Half job of New Windows for keeping warm

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