Why are the VW Group pushing SEAT so hard?

jetsonx · 18-02-2019 7:08pm #1

Why are VW Group pushing the SEAT brand so hard?

A lot of businesses fear "sales cannibalisation" like it was the plague, yet Volkswagen seem to be pushing the SEAT brand as if their life depended on it.

I always thought the purpose of them acquiring SEAT was if a customer was about to walk out of a VW showroom suffering from sticker shock...the salesperson could always say "don't go...have you thought about SEAT?"

Anyone have any theories on this?

ShadowHearth · 18-02-2019 7:16pm

jetsonx wrote: »

Why are VW Group pushing the SEAT brand so hard?

A lot of businesses fear "sales cannibalisation" like it was the plague, yet Volkswagen seem to be pushing the SEAT brand as if their life depended on it.

I always thought the purpose of them acquiring SEAT was if a customer was about to walk out of a VW showroom suffering from sticker shock...the salesperson could always say "don't go...have you thought about SEAT?"

Anyone have any theories on this?

I don't know about VW pushing Seat, but Seats are pretty damn good cars. They are now, what Skoda was good few years ago. Same VW parts, but cheaper.

I own Seat that I bought brand new and considering picking up Ex demo 182 Leon right now. The value and spec you get for the money is unreal. And if you ask me, I much prefer Seats styling in current generation then Skoda and VW.

mickdw · 18-02-2019 9:11pm

I think they see Seat as away to grab further market share. It would appear at the minute that you cannot have too many variations of suv to offer so with the likes of kia and hyundai and even peugeot selling well, having a range of models across all prices will mean they are more likely to take sales off other brands than themselves.

Eric Cartman · 18-02-2019 9:19pm

seat is there to compete with the ultra low price brands like dacia, its a way to take market share back in the 'any car with a new reg plate' segment.

jetsonx · 18-02-2019 9:58pm

mickdw wrote: »

I think they see Seat as away to grab further market share. It would appear at the minute that you cannot have too many variations of suv to offer so with the likes of kia and hyundai and even peugeot selling well, having a range of models across all prices will mean they are more likely to take sales off other brands than themselves.

I was kinda of guessing this as a possible explanation...VW saying "lets throw everything at the SUV segment" entering two horses into the race instead of just one.

Eric Cartman · 18-02-2019 10:02pm

jetsonx wrote: »

I was kinda of guessing this as a possible explanation...VW saying "lets throw everything at the SUV segment" entering two horses into the race instead of just one.

well they have the ateca , kodiaq and tiguan to appeal to basically the same customer but in 3 different price brackets.

grogi · 18-02-2019 10:11pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

seat is there to compete with the ultra low price brands like dacia, its a way to take market share back in the 'any car with a new reg plate' segment.

No, it is not.

Seat with its Spanish heritage is generally positioned as a brand for young, energetic people with a bit of sporty note. In general VAG does not have a great strategy for this brand, but by no means it competes with Dacia...

Skoda is what VW used to be - a no nonsense auto, without much thrills. But sometimes the Czech surprise the overlords and release forms like a Superb...

jetsonx · 18-02-2019 10:13pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

well they have the ateca , kodiaq and tiguan to appeal to basically the same customer but in 3 different price brackets.

So one for an Irish Mirror reader, one for and Irish Independent reader and another for an Irish Times reader....

mickdw · 18-02-2019 10:13pm

I cannot even name all the models they now have across all their brands... it's quite a big line up. To me, the tiguan seems to be over priced at over 40k for a highline 2.0 tdi so they certainly need their lower tier brands to keep people away from the Koreans.

grogi · 18-02-2019 10:14pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

well they have the ateca , kodiaq and tiguan to appeal to basically the same customer but in 3 different price brackets.

Again, Kodiaq and Tiguan are not "the same" car. Kodiaq is much bigger...

jetsonx · 18-02-2019 10:15pm

grogi wrote: »

No, it is not.

Skoda is what VW used to be - a no nonsense auto, without much thrills. But sometimes the Czech surprise the overlords and release forms like a Superb...

Interesting...where are VW now in this segment then?

Eric Cartman · 18-02-2019 10:21pm

grogi wrote: »

Again, Kodiaq and Tiguan are not "the same" car. Kodiaq is much bigger...

its not much bigger , the kodiaq certainly isnt competing against the touareg. Its a crossover.

18-02-2019 10:22pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

well they have the ateca , kodiaq and tiguan to appeal to basically the same customer but in 3 different price brackets.

The Karoq is the one that fits in with the ateca and Tiguan. The Kodiaq is far bigger.

Eric Cartman · 18-02-2019 10:28pm

theres so many fauxby4s its hard to know anymore.

ShadowHearth · 18-02-2019 10:30pm

I think we will need measuring tape and spreadsheet to figure out where each SUV stands in VW group. For the love of feck, all of them have 3-4 variations already and making more!

18-02-2019 10:32pm

OSI wrote: »

Kodiaq is in between the size of a regular Tiguan and a Tiguan AllSpace.

Kodiaq is bigger than any of the Tiguans. It’s only slightly smaller overall than then previous model Touareg and actually has a larger interior.

grogi · 18-02-2019 10:33pm

jetsonx wrote: »

Interesting...where are VW now in this segment then?

Above Skoda and below Audi. VW would be better finished than corresponding Skoda, be more polished.

Eric Cartman · 18-02-2019 10:34pm

Moses Sweet Stink wrote: »

Kodiaq is bigger than any of the Tiguans. It’s only slightly smaller overall than then previous model Touareg and actually has a larger interior.

but its still a soft roader with a small engine, its probably the biggest in the crossover section but it doesnt quite enter the real 4x4 arena. kind of a poor mans X5 if you will.

For Forks Sake · 19-02-2019 12:33am

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I think we will need measuring tape and spreadsheet to figure out where each SUV stands in VW group. For the love of feck, all of them have 3-4 variations already and making more!

Small:
Seat Arona-VW T-Roc-Audi Q2/Q3 - isn't there a small Skoda on the way as well?

Medium:
Seat Ateca/Skoda Karoq/VW Tiguain/Audi Q5

Large
Seat Taracco/Skoda Kodiaq/VW Tourag/Audi Q7

Stupidly Large and Ugly:
Audi Q8

Eric Cartman · 19-02-2019 12:35am

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Small:
Seat Arona-VW T-Roc-Audi Q2/Q3 - isn't there a small Skoda on the way as well?

Medium:
Seat Ateca/Skoda Karoq/VW Tiguain/Audi Q5

Large
Seat Taracco/Skoda Kodiaq/VW Tourag/Audi Q7

Stupidly Large and Ugly:
Audi Q8

the touareg / q7 are in a category above the other 2 , the q8 is a funny one as its footprint is q7 sized but its a smaller body thats more sporty and competes as such with the range rover sport and the bmw x6.

screamer · 19-02-2019 12:37am

Dunno, but I’d take a seat over a boring vw anyway. I much prefer the styling and the poke that seats have, which vw don’t bring honest, and the extras that are included with seat that vw charge you mightily for, plus of course the historic link with old Adolph, I’d rather a seat any day.

For Forks Sake · 19-02-2019 1:05am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the touareg / q7 are in a category above the other 2 , the q8 is a funny one as its footprint is q7 sized but its a smaller body thats more sporty and competes as such with the range rover sport and the bmw x6.

A 16.5 foot long, 2.5 tonne car is not sporty, no matter what Audi think

scrawnyass · 19-02-2019 1:13am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

seat is there to compete with the ultra low price brands like dacia, its a way to take market share back in the 'any car with a new reg plate' segment.

Disagree.SEATs new SUV is a real head turner. Dacias new duster in top of the range model is not bad at all. Irish people are obsessed with car badges.Its a bit pathetic and sad really.

Effects · 19-02-2019 1:27am

scrawnyass wrote: »

Dacias new duster in top of the range model is not bad at all.

Is it not still cheap plastic inside like the lower spec models?
I drove one and it reminded me of my old VW Caddy but with less power.

Matthewjohn · 19-02-2019 2:12am

Just to confuse things, the Tarraco/Kodiaq are equivalent to the Tiguan Allspace.

Philb76 · 19-02-2019 3:19am

The golf is no posher than a leon now but for some reason people claim it must be

NIMAN · 19-02-2019 3:51am

Are they though?

I'd say they are pushing all brands equally.

Skoda are being pushed as much as SEAT.

Audi get plenty of press too.

grogi · 19-02-2019 9:07am

For Forks Sake wrote: »

A 16.5 foot long, 2.5 tonne car is not sporty, no matter what Audi think

It's not what Audi thinks, but what people want to buy.

Eric Cartman · 19-02-2019 11:18am

scrawnyass wrote: »

Disagree.SEATs new SUV is a real head turner. Dacias new dusterin top of the range model is not bad at all. Irish people are obsessed with car badges.Its a bit pathetic and sad really.

I dont think we’ll agree on a lot about cars.

grogi · 19-02-2019 11:47am

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Small:
Seat Arona-VW T-Roc-Audi Q2/Q3 - isn't there a small Skoda on the way as well?

Medium:
Seat Ateca/Skoda Karoq/VW Tiguain/Audi Q5

Large
Seat Taracco/Skoda Kodiaq/VW Tourag/Audi Q7

Stupidly Large and Ugly:
Audi Q8

More like:

Large (around 4.7m):
Seat Taracco/Skoda Kodiaq/VW Tiguan AllSpace

Even larger (around 4.9m):
VW Touareg/Porsche Cayenne/Audi Q7 & Q8

Zubeneschamali · 19-02-2019 11:48am

Philb76 wrote: »

The golf is no posher than a leon now but for some reason people claim it must be

The difference is immediately obvious if you climb in, shut the door and touch things inside.

RedorDead · 19-02-2019 12:07pm

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Small:
Seat Arona-VW T-Roc-Audi Q2/Q3 - isn't there a small Skoda on the way as well?

Medium:
Seat Ateca/Skoda Karoq/VW Tiguain/Audi Q5

Large
Seat Taracco/Skoda Kodiaq/VW Tourag/Audi Q7

Stupidly Large and Ugly:
Audi Q8

Close but not correct. In VW Groups own segmentation this is how it goes:

A0 SUV
Audi Q2 (think A0 upper) / Seat Arona (think A0 lower) / Skoda Karoq (think A0 upper) / Skoda Kamiq (think A0 lower) / VW T-Cross (think A0 lower) / VW T-Roc (think A0 upper)

A SUV
Audi Q3 and forthcoming Q3 Sportback / Seat Ateca (think A lower) / Seat Tarraco (think A upper) / Skoda Kodiaq / VW Tiguan (think A lower) / VW Tiguan Allspace (think A upper)

B SUV
Audi Q5 / Porsche Macan

C SUV
Audi Q7 (think C lower) / Audi e-tron (think C lower) / Audi Q8 (think C upper)
VW Touareg (think C lower) Porsche Cayenne

novarock · 19-02-2019 1:17pm

I don't really think they are pushing the brand hard, but the consumers are certainly talking with their bank balances. There is a markup for the badge for sure. VW's even second hand have a higher value than they should, based on brand reputation

I'm on my second SEAT after a a Skoda before that. Wasn't buying brands necessarily, I wanted the VW engines. When I got the Octavia, I had just gotten a job that involved being all over the country, at the time the VW 2.0L tdi was one of the better engines economically - couldn't afford the VW, so got the Skoda. Wanted another TDI when the Octavia went too high in mileage - SEAT had the best value one in the Leon FR..

I stuck with them since because they have been great to deal with as a dealership, I'm not sure if its the same for all SEAT dealers, or I'm just lucky.

This time I wanted a petrol as I'm nowhere near doing the miles for the big diesel - And the Ateca has one of VW's best engines in the 1.5 TSI. I don't necessarily think there is a massive difference in internal spec between my xcellence, and the corresponding tiguan, but there is certainly a price difference. They obviously cut corners to get the price down - I have a torsion beam at the rear, Tiguan has multilink. Interior wise, plastics that I never have to touch are cheaper, other than that technology wise they are similar.

Underneath, they have the same engine/gearbox and are fundamentally the same car with different specs.

Leprechaun77 · 19-02-2019 2:33pm

I don’t believe the group are pushing SEAT any more than the other brands. I just think that they have developed the vehicles to such a level that they are near identical and indistinguishable under the body, combined with with a design that is now more desirable to the buyer. If you look at the new Seat Tarraco, I think this is a real contender to cannibalise sales from the Kodiaq/Allspace. It is not cheap but there there is a real premium feel inside the cabin and it comes with a plethora of extras.

wcooba · 19-02-2019 2:48pm

It's actually SEAT itself who need to try hard. VW bosses were close to pulling the plug few years ago. The first profit in 10 years or so was in 2016. 2017 was profitable too - thanks to expanding SUV offering. If they continue this path, Wolfsburg's attention should focus somewhere else (i.e. on unprofitable Bentley).

19-02-2019 3:14pm

OSI wrote: »

It's mostly assist systems you'd be missing, lane assist, park assist, electric tailgate, blind spot monitoring and adaptive cruise. Panoramic roof and digital dash would be on the Tiguan too. Whether they're worth 5k+, is entirely debatable.

I was sitting in a brand new Octavia estate in a Skoda dealership recently and was surprised to see it had a manual handbrake (it was a very well spec'd one too). I thought they would have done away with them as they have in the golf. It stood out to me as something to do purely to hold it back a bit compared to equivalent VWs.

That being said overall I was impressed with the Skoda interior is getting very close to VW for look and feel now I have to say.

grogi · 19-02-2019 3:16pm

Moses Sweet Stink wrote: »

That being said overall I was impressed with the Skoda interior is getting very close to VW for look and feel now I have to say.

Skoda. Not Seat...

19-02-2019 3:44pm

grogi wrote: »

Skoda. Not Seat...

Its been a while since I sat in a Seat but even current models don't look as nice inside as VWs anyway, I can't comment on the quality/feel.

novarock · 19-02-2019 3:51pm

OSI wrote: »

It's mostly assist systems you'd be missing, lane assist, park assist, electric tailgate, blind spot monitoring and adaptive cruise. Panoramic roof and digital dash would be on the Tiguan too. Whether they're worth 5k+, is entirely debatable.

Its all available anyway. Being honest, a lot of these things are probably something that I would be disabling. I've already had to dial back the front assist as it braked me out of nowhere approaching a roundabout a few weeks ago.

I just added everything possible to it for the craic - still came in at 42k.

Leprechaun77 · 19-02-2019 4:51pm

Moses Sweet Stink wrote: »

Its been a while since I sat in a Seat but even current models don't look as nice inside as VWs anyway, I can't comment on the quality/feel.

I have sat in the latest Seat Tarraco and I believe the interior is better than the Kodiaq and on a par with the Tiguan at least. I would assume the other models will make the step up as time goes by, but do agree that there is a noticeable difference back down the line.

Mad_maxx · 19-02-2019 7:32pm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I don't know about VW pushing Seat, but Seats are pretty damn good cars. They are now, what Skoda was good few years ago. Same VW parts, but cheaper.

I own Seat that I bought brand new and considering picking up Ex demo 182 Leon right now. The value and spec you get for the money is unreal. And if you ask me, I much prefer Seats styling in current generation then Skoda and VW.

IMO, seat are way cooler looking than there German and Czech cousins

Mad_maxx · 19-02-2019 7:35pm

grogi wrote: »

Above Skoda and below Audi. VW would be better finished than corresponding Skoda, be more polished.

It's more of a brand thing, quality is identical

Mad_maxx · 19-02-2019 7:36pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

but its still a soft roader with a small engine, its probably the biggest in the crossover section but it doesnt quite enter the real 4x4 arena. kind of a poor mans X5 if you will.

Touraeg doesn't enter the true 4x4 either, its no landcruiser

Mad_maxx · 19-02-2019 7:39pm

screamer wrote: »

Dunno, but I’d take a seat over a boring vw anyway. I much prefer the styling and the poke that seats have, which vw don’t bring honest, and the extras that are included with seat that vw charge you mightily for, plus of course the historic link with old Adolph, I’d rather a seat any day.

Brother in law and his wife ( no kids and little disposable income) bought an ibiza recently, really nice car, far sportier classier than the fabia

Shefwedfan · 19-02-2019 7:47pm

The VW group list of brands from top to bottom

Audi
VW
Seat
Skoda

Skoda was always bought by VW to allow them to bring a cheap car to the market and not compromise the VW/Audi name. So take a Passat for instance and sell a cheaper version which was less refined to the VW brand. Audi was always going to be a step above all of them.

Seat as someone mentioned was seen as a young brand, VW got involved with Seat long before buying Skoda.

Of course this is taking the luxury brands like Prosche, bentley, Bugatti etc out of the ranking

Why are Seat been pushed? well more dealers. VW consolidated it dealers a few years back, they wanted big dealers with huge showrooms. So the likes of Brady's Castleknock lost VW. To compensate they handed them a Seat dealership. They offered the same to a number of people.

With more dealers you get more money and then more advertising. It also helps grow more marketshare for VW group.

19-02-2019 11:53pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Touraeg doesn't enter the true 4x4 either, its no landcruiser

The Touareg is very much the real deal, it even has a higher towing capacity than most landcruisers.

jetsonx · 20-02-2019 12:04am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why are Seat been pushed? well more dealers. VW consolidated it dealers a few years back, they wanted big dealers with huge showrooms. So the likes of Brady's Castleknock lost VW. To compensate they handed them a Seat dealership. They offered the same to a number of people.

With more dealers you get more money and then more advertising. It also helps grow more marketshare for VW group.

So, what prompted this consolidation of dealers then?

Shefwedfan · 20-02-2019 3:46am

jetsonx wrote: »

So, what prompted this consolidation of dealers then?

As I said they wanted dealers with large showrooms so all dealers would have similar setup.....

Nissan are currently doing the same, Hutton and Meade etc have lost the Nissan dealership because they don’t fit the new requirements

Eric Cartman · 20-02-2019 10:10am

Moses Sweet Stink wrote: »

The Touareg is very much the real deal, it even has a higher towing capacity than most landcruisers.

+1 , has a low range box and lockable diffs are an option , thats as real 4x4 as it gets

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 20-02-2019 12:13pm

wish id got a seat instead of a new ****e skoda

wilser · 20-02-2019 3:02pm

DaDumTish wrote: »

wish id got a seat instead of a new ****e skoda

Uh oh we are looking at a new kodiaq or a new terraco, both of us prefer the Skoda.
Seems to be kitted out better for cheaper money.
Going to have a better look on Saturday, what issues do you have with your skoda

Why are the VW Group pushing SEAT so hard?

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