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Alleged Grindr Homophobic Hate Crime

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    #2
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,290 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    That's really bad, who the hell even goes to such an effort to set up a honeytrap like that? Hope he's OK, and the guards are able to do something :rolleyes:

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #3
    lottpaul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭lottpaul


    Awful incident and my sympathies to the poor guy.
    Very glad too that he went public about it to alert others - and I really hope they catch - and name - the culprits. A warning also to people that anyone can be a target and that we can never be complacent about the need for continuing education and normalisation. These were young people and they didn't just pick up that level of hatred and prejudice from the air.


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    #4
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,292 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    Sickening :mad:


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    #5
    NotToScale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭NotToScale


    Just reading about this having been asked about it by a friend in the US as it's getting quite a bit of international attention. It's really making me wonder about what's going on in Ireland.

    Sometimes it feels like a progressive country. Sometimes it feels really unsafe. I genuinely don't feel comfortable walking around large areas of Dublin City Centre and I have had a gun pointed at me in broad daylight ...

    There's no hate crime legislation. You've had a mixed race family run out of the country due to online death threats. There is a sense of lawlessness in the cities sometimes due to very little visible policing.

    There are times I just wonder about the place. We can be great at patting ourselves on the back about how wonderfully progressive we are due to having voted in marriage equality and being one of the last countries in the developed world to allow access to abortion, but there seem to be serious social problems and attitude issues about things like homophobia, racism and a general inability to tackle thuggish behaviour that are not being tackled because we're loathed to admit that some serious problems still lurk below the surface.

    This attack shouldn't just be swept aside as some kind of freak incident. We need to ask questions about how something like this could happen and what kind of attitudes are really out there.


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    #6
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Ireland needs hate crime legislation.

    However we probably need a judiciary and police reform as well.


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    #7
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    There have been several cases of Grindr murderers in the UK, as I understand it they were lone predators rather than a group of co-ordinated gay-bashers as it seems to be in this case.


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    #8
    Naggdefy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭Naggdefy


    That's awful. Hope the man recovers. It reminds me of that man who was beaten to death in the 1980s, name escapes me.


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    #9
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Companies like Grindr, Tinder, etc. need to be made accountable for allowing fake profiles to exist - and not just for this reason. But I'm sure in their T&Cs they renounce all liability.


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    #10
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »
    Ireland needs hate crime legislation.

    However we probably need a judiciary and police reform as well.

    Yeah, and you'll get all the Jordon Peterson Fanboys crying that the thought police are trying to ruin their language.


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    #11
    Peadar06
    Registered Users Posts: 619 ✭✭✭Peadar06


    Naggdefy wrote: »
    That's awful. Hope the man recovers. It reminds me of that man who was beaten to death in the 1980s, name escapes me.

    Declan Flynn


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    #12
    NotToScale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 112 ✭✭NotToScale


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    Companies like Grindr, Tinder, etc. need to be made accountable for allowing fake profiles to exist - and not just for this reason. But I'm sure in their T&Cs they renounce all liability.

    They should have better reporting systems to allow users to flag potentially fake profiles and ensure they follow up quickly but, without something like photo ID verification, I’m not sure how they could eliminate them entirely.

    You’d have to either have an ID document like a passport or driving license verified or else have something like a requirement to have your photos verified with a live video chat with a verification service, to prove you are who you ar saying you are.

    Maybe there’s a demand for that? But I think it would probably put a lot of people off using certain apps and would make them slow and expensive to operate.

    The main safety measure people could take is never, ever, ever meet someone in a private or secluded area. Just pick a bar, a cafe, anywhere that’s public and gives you an option of walking away if it’s they’re not who you were expecting when you get there.

    The bigger issue is that vicious homophobic issues shouldn’t be happening and it’s pointing towards a serious problem with a certain element of Irish society. While personal safety is important, so is a society where you can arrange to meet someone and not get attacked with hammers!

    The reality is that if there’s a group of violent homophobes that are tracking down and targeting gay men online, they’ll just use whatever nasty fishing methods are available to them, or otherwise identify gay men. They’re the ones who need to be arrested and held accountable, otherwise we’re back to the bad old days!

    The ideology behind it needs to be tackled and who knows what toxic crazy these people are absorbing in some online bubble. When you see the radical far right crazy stuff going on elsewhere it’s beyond naïve to assume that it can’t creep into niches here too.

    The price of freedom is eternal vigilance and unfortunately, for LGBTQ+ people that seems to be something we can never take as a given.

    If you do nothing else, at least call your local TDs and express your upset about this and demand they pay attention to it.

    I’d also add from an international reputation point of view this incidence is extremely damaging to Ireland. So even if you’re not directly impacted by being gay yourself, this kind of thing makes Ireland look like some kind of backwards dump and that has real impacts on tourism and even FDI decisions.

    We seem to have elements of some kind of extreme right emerging and ignoring it is something we will be looking back at in hindsight, regretting that we didn’t legislate and didn’t educate in 20 years time if it ever does turn into something more serious. I’m seeing elements online that are every bit as disturbing as what was going on in parts of the US and France and so on a few years ago and those things have grown and turned very toxic very fast.


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    #13
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,816 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    NotToScale wrote: »
    They should have better reporting systems to allow users to flag potentially fake profiles and ensure they follow up quickly but, without something like photo ID verification, I’m not sure how they could eliminate them entirely.

    You’d have to either have an ID document like a passport or driving license verified or else have something like a requirement to have your photos verified with a live video chat with a verification service, to prove you are who you ar saying you are.

    Maybe there’s a demand for that? But I think it would probably put a lot of people off using certain apps and would make them slow and expensive to operate.

    The main safety measure people could take is never, ever, ever meet someone in a private or secluded area. Just pick a bar, a cafe, anywhere that’s public and gives you an option of walking away if it’s they’re not who you were expecting when you get there.

    The bigger issue is that vicious homophobic issues shouldn’t be happening and it’s pointing towards a serious problem with a certain element of Irish society. While personal safety is important, so is a society where you can arrange to meet someone and not get attacked with hammers!

    The reality is that if there’s a group of violent homophobes that are tracking down and targeting gay men online, they’ll just use whatever nasty fishing methods are available to them, or otherwise identify gay men. They’re the ones who need to be arrested and held accountable, otherwise we’re back to the bad old days!

    The ideology behind it needs to be tackled and who knows what toxic crazy these people are absorbing in some online bubble. When you see the radical far right crazy stuff going on elsewhere it’s beyond naïve to assume that it can’t creep into niches here too.

    The price of freedom is eternal vigilance and unfortunately, for LGBTQ+ people that seems to be something we can never take as a given.

    If you do nothing else, at least call your local TDs and express your upset about this and demand they pay attention to it.

    I’d also add from an international reputation point of view this incidence is extremely damaging to Ireland. So even if you’re not directly impacted by being gay yourself, this kind of thing make Ireland look like some kind of backwards dump and that has real impacts on tourism and even FDI decisions.

    We seem to have elements of some kind of extreme right emerging and ignoring it is something we will be looking back at in hindsight, regretting that we didn’t legislate and didn’t educate in 20 years time if it ever does turn into something more serious. I’m seeing elements online that are every bit as disturbing as what was going on in parts of the US and France and so on a few years ago and those things have grown and turned very toxic very fast.

    Definitely

    The online growth of the far right in Ireland is very very dangerous for lgbtq+ people. We must stand firm against it and in solidarity with women and other minority groups.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #14
    feardeas
    Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭feardeas


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Definitely

    The online growth of the far right in Ireland is very very dangerous for lgbtq+ people. We must stand firm against it and in solidarity with women and other minority groups.

    For sure. Heard a clip from a meeting discussing the direct provision centre in Borrisokane and Justin Barrett was there speaking/having an annuresm. In fairness some, including an elderly man, took him to task. This whole thing has to be watched. If there are genuine concerns around resources e.g schools they should be addressed. Otherwise this and other things will become a vehicle for the lunatic right to further spout their vile nonsense.


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    #15
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,816 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    feardeas wrote: »
    For sure. Heard a clip from a meeting discussing the direct provision centre in Borrisokane and Justin Barrett was there speaking/having an annuresm. In fairness some, including an elderly man, took him to task. This whole thing has to be watched. If there are genuine concerns around resources e.g schools they should be addressed. Otherwise this and other things will become a vehicle for the lunatic right to further spout their vile nonsense.

    Exactly. People like Justin Bareett would happily reverse single legislative improvement on lgbt rights in this country in the last 30 years. The far right must be resisted by lgbt people too. Of coyrse the likes of Paddy Manning and Keith Mills might support them but the vast majority of LGBT people in Ireland shouldnt.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #16
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    That's really bad, who the hell even goes to such an effort to set up a honeytrap like that? Hope he's OK, and the guards are able to do something :rolleyes:

    The man himself was on the radio with Joe Duffy the other day.
    He spoke about his interaction with Gardai.

    It sounded positive.

    The thread itself seems to have gone a bit off track with personalisation.


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