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Draws for finals.

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  • 21-03-2012 8:24pm
    #1
    sting60
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭


    Can.


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    #2
    tvercetti
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭tvercetti


    sting60 wrote: »
    <snip>

    Is the dog seeded as a wide runner?
    I found your dog after a bit of searching (you spelt his name wrong) and he has been seeded Inside for his past 3 races. If your after changing his seeding since his previous race to a wide runner, maybe you should make an allowance for the short time frame. When the upcoming race card is available online, you will be able to see his seeding for his next race. I don't see anyone benefitting from you withdrawing and maybe you should have more common sense before throwing around accusations in the future. Also you need to consider the other dogs seedings too.


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    #3
    tvercetti
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭tvercetti


    If your curious how you got trap 6 in one of your previous races when you were seeded inside, that was because all the dogs in the race that night were seeded as inside runners, and then its just the luck of the draw.


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    #4
    kk09
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭kk09


    tvercetti wrote: »
    If your curious how you got trap 6 in one of your previous races when you were seeded inside, that was because all the dogs in the race that night were seeded as inside runners, and then its just the luck of the draw.

    My opinion is the trainers or big owners are well looked after in the dogs, more particullarly when it comes to grading. Like for example when a popular trainer is the only back grader in a A1 race. Having raced 40 or 50 spots below the grade at some state and now against 5 dogs who have bearly broken into A1 after loads of attempts. Ive seen this


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    #5
    tvercetti
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭tvercetti


    kk09 wrote: »
    My opinion is the trainers or big owners are well looked after in the dogs, more particullarly when it comes to grading. Like for example when a popular trainer is the only back grader in a A1 race. Having raced 40 or 50 spots below the grade at some state and now against 5 dogs who have bearly broken into A1 after loads of attempts. Ive seen this

    My point was aimed at the OP and trying to explain seeding using his past races as an example and if you read his post I'm sure you can see the unjustified accusations. I presume he got the point because he deleted his post.

    Your point is probably something that could do with a thread of its own, I'm sure plenty will agree with you.

    If all these dogs you have seen have an issue with back graders then why not enter confined races? Thats the reason we have the confined/current setup.


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    #6
    kk09
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭kk09


    tvercetti wrote: »
    kk09 wrote: »
    My opinion is the trainers or big owners are well looked after in the dogs, more particullarly when it comes to grading. Like for example when a popular trainer is the only back grader in a A1 race. Having raced 40 or 50 spots below the grade at some state and now against 5 dogs who have bearly broken into A1 after loads of attempts. Ive seen this

    My point was aimed at the OP and trying to explain seeding using his past races as an example and if you read his post I'm sure you can see the unjustified accusations. I presume he got the point because he deleted his post.

    Your point is probably something that could do with a thread of its own, I'm sure plenty will agree with you.

    If all these dogs you have seen have an issue with back graders then why not enter confined races? Thats the reason we have the confined/current setup.

    Is it not the case to get into a confined (no BG) race u need to enter a sweep stake. It is very unusual for a sweepstake to be won in anything close to the grade it starts at, so they are not usually any help.


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    #7
    tvercetti
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭tvercetti


    kk09 wrote: »
    Is it not the case to get into a confined (no BG) race u need to enter a sweep stake. It is very unusual for a sweepstake to be won in anything close to the grade it starts at, so they are not usually any help.

    Thats the idea of racing, you work hard to get faster times out of your dog and win races, then your dog progresses to the next grade and you work hard to beat them.

    The grading is very helpful in giving dogs a chance at winning races regardless of there quality. Yes its hard when your competing with backgraders in particular but regardless of how many dogs you own, you want to improve each dogs grading.

    Its similar to golfing in a way, you don't want to spend your life competing with other golfers in the same section/grade, you want to continue inproving and lower your handicap as much as possible.

    This does mean you might hit your peak and are unable to win races in your current grade, thats where back grading can help you.

    You can't say that grading is not any help unless you can provide a more feasible idea. I had a bitch a couple of years back, she only ran about 5 races, she failed to ever improve on grade 4 but thanks to grading she won 2 races and had a 2nd and a 3rd, ended up getting a healthy offer for her as a result.


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    #8
    sting60
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭sting60


    tvercetti wrote: »
    My point was aimed at the OP and trying to explain seeding using his past races as an example and if you read his post I'm sure you can see the unjustified accusations. I presume he got the point because he deleted his post.

    Your point is probably something that could do with a thread of its own, I'm sure plenty will agree with you.

    If all these dogs you have seen have an issue with back graders then why not enter confined races? Thats the reason we have the confined/current setup.
    Incorrect I withdrew the post on behalf of the owner/trainer.Firstly any dog not seeded is automatically alloted an inside seed.If I was to print all I want to print the Mahon tribunal would look like a fairy tale.We all know that the stewardship of our great sport is whiter than white.There never has been dogs testing positive and yet keeping major events,all dogs have turned up for their trials,No managers have ever been involved in buying dogs at sales and then these dogs are well graded to win races and then sold for very inflated prices,all dogs are very well graded,all trap draws are made by computer in Limerick,the small owner/trainer is allways treated fairly,all dogs run as their ID card suggests,top trainers never are allowed to have a private day for schooling on a track prior to a big competition and they never use live lure.I totally agree that all printed has never happened and am glad the stewards are so honest and have the best intentions for the sport.


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    #9
    sting60
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭sting60


    kk09 wrote: »
    My opinion is the trainers or big owners are well looked after in the dogs, more particullarly when it comes to grading. Like for example when a popular trainer is the only back grader in a A1 race. Having raced 40 or 50 spots below the grade at some state and now against 5 dogs who have bearly broken into A1 after loads of attempts. Ive seen this
    We all have thousands of examples of your very valid point.Can I give you a very glaring and high profile example to back-up you point.A D...... DOG [CANT REMEMBER HIS NAME] nearly broke the track record in his first race[sprint] then was allowed to run in an A5 competition at Shelbourne .Every dog in that A5 was exposed including my dog,they were all genuine A5 dogs.The D....... dog did 28.33 all other dogs did A5 or worse.I had a dog a while back who qualified back after injury in 17.67 HX and that dog went into that coresponding grade over 525.Are there laws for the top and different laws for the bottom.If there are I cannot seem to find it in the rule book.


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    #10
    tvercetti
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭tvercetti


    sting60 wrote: »
    Incorrect I withdrew the post on behalf of the owner/trainer.Firstly any dog not seeded is automatically alloted an inside seed.If I was to print all I want to print the Mahon tribunal would look like a fairy tale.We all know that the stewardship of our great sport is whiter than white.There never has been dogs testing positive and yet keeping major events,all dogs have turned up for their trials,No managers have ever been involved in buying dogs at sales and then these dogs are well graded to win races and then sold for very inflated prices,all dogs are very well graded,all trap draws are made by computer in Limerick,the small owner/trainer is allways treated fairly,all dogs run as their ID card suggests,top trainers never are allowed to have a private day for schooling on a track prior to a big competition and they never use live lure.I totally agree that all printed has never happened and am glad the stewards are so honest and have the best intentions for the sport.

    You keeping changing the point, in my first reply I asked why you didn't seed your dog outside? I understand that dogs can be seeded inside by default but you stated that you/owner wanted the dog running outside. How can you blame anyone else if its you that failed to change the dogs seeding? Can you possibly answer those questions without telling me how every track in Ireland is run.

    With regards to your dog losing to the track record dog, you asked are there different laws?? There are very odd laws in this area. I don't know all the laws and its likely that dog shouldnt have been running A5, I would expect that dog should have been A3 judging by the rules I know.

    And like I said to KK, if you want to bring up a point about the running of tracks, it would be best to open a new thread, you would get more exposure, feedback and input. I'm sure many will agree with you in different areas, but you opened this thread to ask about your dogs seeding issues and I think its fair to say, you know now why he was given the trap he got.


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    #11
    sting60
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭sting60


    tvercetti wrote: »
    You keeping changing the point, in my first reply I asked why you didn't seed your dog outside? I understand that dogs can be seeded inside by default but you stated that you/owner wanted the dog running outside. How can you blame anyone else if its you that failed to change the dogs seeding? Can you possibly answer those questions without telling me how every track in Ireland is run.

    With regards to your dog losing to the track record dog, you asked are there different laws?? There are very odd laws in this area. I don't know all the laws and its likely that dog shouldnt have been running A5, I would expect that dog should have been A3 judging by the rules I know.

    And like I said to KK, if you want to bring up a point about the running of tracks, it would be best to open a new thread, you would get more exposure, feedback and input. I'm sure many will agree with you in different areas, but you opened this thread to ask about your dogs seeding issues and I think its fair to say, you know now why he was given the trap he got.

    The dog is currently not seeded why, the syndicate forgot to do so prior to the start of competition.I can only relate on this site what I was told and the reason for the post in the first place is because it was witnessed by someone that the card of Run Samson Run was held back from the draw and added at the end into the very unfavourable trap1..Since the start of this competition one of the syndicate has weighted in the dog and yet he has had verbals with the control steward who says incorrectly he is not intitled to weigh the dog in.The owners were afraid that the stewardship in HX would refuse the dog a run tonight soThe said man has had to get written conformation from the IGB to confirm he is intitled to weigh the dog in,he will be carrying that notification with him tonight.My point is the small man has obsticles put in front of him at almost every turn.This is the very first dog this syndicate has ever had and will bring a big crowd to HX tonight.I believe they have turned some big offers for the dog as they want to have a bit of fun with him.Their budget was 800e but they managed to go to 1,000e on my reccomendation[it was a birthday present from a family to their father.]Good luck to them tonight and most importantly I hope the dog comes back sound.


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    #12
    tvercetti
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭tvercetti


    sting60 wrote: »
    The dog is currently not seeded why, the syndicate forgot to do so prior to the start of competition.I can only relate on this site what I was told and the reason for the post in the first place is because it was witnessed by someone that the card of Run Samson Run was held back from the draw and added at the end into the very unfavourable trap1..Since the start of this competition one of the syndicate has weighted in the dog and yet he has had verbals with the control steward who says incorrectly he is not intitled to weigh the dog in.The owners were afraid that the stewardship in HX would refuse the dog a run tonight soThe said man has had to get written conformation from the IGB to confirm he is intitled to weigh the dog in,he will be carrying that notification with him tonight.My point is the small man has obsticles put in front of him at almost every turn.This is the very first dog this syndicate has ever had and will bring a big crowd to HX tonight.I believe they have turned some big offers for the dog as they want to have a bit of fun with him.Their budget was 800e but they managed to go to 1,000e on my reccomendation[it was a birthday present from a family to their father.]Good luck to them tonight and most importantly I hope the dog comes back sound.

    Its unfortunate the syndicate failed to seed the dog, theres only 1 wide seeded dog in the race and a favourable wide trap would have been very likely had Samson been seeded wide. Good Luck with the race.

    I can only speak from personal experience, we keep 2 race dogs usually, so would be considered the "small man" and like most doggie men we have a moan and rant about draws etc but we have never had any real issue or obstacles put in our way, we just get on with it.


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    #13
    sting60
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭sting60


    tvercetti wrote: »
    Its unfortunate the syndicate failed to seed the dog, theres only 1 wide seeded dog in the race and a favourable wide trap would have been very likely had Samson been seeded wide. Good Luck with the race.

    I can only speak from personal experience, we keep 2 race dogs usually, so would be considered the "small man" and like most doggie men we have a moan and rant about draws etc but we have never had any real issue or obstacles put in our way, we just get on with it.
    The main obstacle I would see looking at complaints from the so called small man is their dogs not getting a run within the six week period and quite frequently having the cost[diesel and entry]of re-trialling and the frustration of having a dog race fit lying at home doing nothing.The other obstacle I see quite a lot is the box filler,knowing your dog has no chance.Remember a very prominent official of the the IGB once said "Its time to move away from the dirty cap brigade".Every man from north Donegal to south Cork is entitled to keep and run a dog and have fair play in doing so and remember without these dirty cap men we would have no greyhounds.


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    #14
    tvercetti
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭tvercetti


    sting60 wrote: »
    The main obstacle I would see looking at complaints from the so called small man is their dogs not getting a run within the six week period and quite frequently having the cost[diesel and entry]of re-trialling and the frustration of having a dog race fit lying at home doing nothing.The other obstacle I see quite a lot is the box filler,knowing your dog has no chance.Remember a very prominent official of the the IGB once said "Its time to move away from the dirty cap brigade".Every man from north Donegal to south Cork is entitled to keep and run a dog and have fair play in doing so and remember without these dirty cap men we would have no greyhounds.

    Ya only on the very rare occasion have we had a dog go out of time, but we do have 3 nights racing a week in Tralee which is more than alot of places, always more likely to get a race.

    On your other point, if theres nights when I "know my dog has no chance", thats probably when I will throw the cap in, its that way of thinking that will never have you win a race. On any given night, you can't asumme the outcome and write off your chances, whos to say what will happen. Whos to say Samson won't fly out of trap 1 and win tonight.


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    #15
    rosskeen
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭rosskeen


    I see Sampson won by 6 length in 29.17. Trap 1 might be his trap!


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    #16
    tvercetti
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭tvercetti


    rosskeen wrote: »
    I see Sampson won by 6 length in 29.17. Trap 1 might be his trap!

    Ya, had just checked up myself, Nice Win!!!


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    #17
    sting60
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭sting60


    rosskeen wrote: »
    I see Sampson won by 6 length in 29.17. Trap 1 might be his trap!
    He is running about .5 below what he can do.He needs ideally t5 in a galloping track like Shelbourne to show what he really can do.Is Clonmel a big open track as he may be entered in the produce stake.


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    #18
    sting60
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭sting60


    tvercetti wrote: »
    Ya, had just checked up myself, Nice Win!!!
    The dog is on three legs he has a wrist injury.Will be with Brian Jones on sat.


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    #19
    kk09
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭kk09


    sting60 wrote: »
    The dog is on three legs he has a wrist injury.Will be with Brian Jones on sat.

    Fair hard get them wrists right. Hope all works out well for ye with him.


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    #20
    sting60
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭sting60


    kk09 wrote: »
    Fair hard get them wrists right. Hope all works out well for ye with him.
    He just stained the wrist he will do 28.30.with a top trainer.Remember he is trained by a man who cannot walk withoth a stick.


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