Slane by-pass and the Archaeology beneth

Bog Butter · 24-01-2010 5:50pm #1

Just thought i'd open a thread on the Slane by-pass. Under its current form it will run within 500m of the Brú na Bóinne buffer zone. Obviously there is good potential for archaeology to be uncovered. Therefore the excavations should add nicely to the archaeological record of the Boyne valley. No doubt some people will be against it.

Riamfada · 24-01-2010 6:37pm

There has been people against it for a bit. Apparently It will interfere with the visual line of sight from Slane down to the Boyne Valley itself. Thats the primary reason for concern, alternatively the current bridge is one of the most dangerous in the country and it is not uncommon to see fatal accidents on the area. I hear the tender is out .. yay work!

Riamfada · 25-01-2010 3:28am

also Mr Salafia has set up a facebook page more or less saying that Newgrange itself is to be destroyed

Aelfric · 25-01-2010 3:53pm

Aye, well the Hill of Tara has been destroyed by the new M3 going through it, so I suppose Newgrange is the next logical choice. LOL

All we need now is new road to Derry via Dundalk that will pass through Emain Macha, and how about bulldozing the Carrowmore monuments to build a new Sligo airport while we're at it?

The guy needs to get a proper flipping job! He and his rent-a-looney mob drove us spare on the M3 excavations :mad:

gravensteen · 25-01-2010 6:42pm

There's a problem there though, will the line of sight from Slane down the Boyne Valley be recorded archaeologically before it's destroyed?

Riamfada · 25-01-2010 8:26pm

gravensteen wrote: »

There's a problem there though, will the line of sight from Slane down the Boyne Valley be recorded archaeologically before it's destroyed?

So you put lives and road saftey over the line of sight from Slane down the river, a line of site where none of the monuments can be seen? What exactly is special about the line of sight from Slane down the boyne? Mainly people go down to the boyne valley rather than looking into it from Slane.

sensibleken · 25-01-2010 10:39pm

hi, im coming here before the hysterics start to ask. what adverse effects do you think the proposed route will have. the impact statement mentions 44 sites along the route. what sites are these?

no one could say something needs to be done to save lives but i am curious of the real impact of the road to brú na boinne

Riamfada · 26-01-2010 1:45am

sensibleken wrote: »

hi, im coming here before the hysterics start to ask. what adverse effects do you think the proposed route will have. the impact statement mentions 44 sites along the route. what sites are these?

no one could say something needs to be done to save lives but i am curious of the real impact of the road to brú na boinne

Thats a very sensible question Ken. Personally I believe there will be no effects to the Bru Na Boyne site despite some visual interference from Slane Village down to the river bend, this of course will be nullified if one stands on the bridge and looks down the river.

. Having visited the site and toured the proposed area with Prof Cooney of UCD there will be no effect from Newgrange, Knowth or Dowth as the bridge is kilometers away and blocked visually by topography and simple distance.

My two cents but judging by the opposition sites which state

"I can't deal with this crowd of so-called archaeologists. George Eogan is the only one with any principle and any respect for the past. It does not help that my archaeology department is sponsored by the ****ing NRA! WTF is wrong with this country?!!!"

"As a person living in California which arguably has the most freeways and highways and roads on the planet this is disturbing news"

"It seems to me, that whenever a new major road is now planned in Eire, they look for the nearest ancient site of ancestral and historical importance."

Vincent Salafia "The people here are mostly expected to pay for this bypass. We are not against a bypass per se, but we do not think it should be so close to Bru na Boinne that's all. Once again the NRA and the County Manager have conspired to create a situation where people will approve anything, because it is the only option presented to them. Otherwise they would ave implemented the HGV ban and offered a western route"

"This is all part of a slow destruction of the entire area aimed not just from European consortiums and USA but some modern battle of the boyne from interests in London"

"I havn't been to Newgrange, but apart from it's obvious heritage value it also strikes me as a place to be enjoyed / experienced in relative silence. Traffic noise is a distraction that will cheapen that experience, and it's easy to imagine visitors and tourists saying 'why on earth did the Irish put a motorway here?'...."

Alot of misguided people there all taken from the Save Newgrange Facebook Page seem to believe that the passage grave of Newgrange is being destroyed. One person demanding that the Bru Na Boyne complex be classed as a UNESCO heritage site. These are the people who stand on pickets and intimidate construction workers. (we call them lefties

;))

gravensteen · 26-01-2010 11:15am

Grimes wrote: »

So you put lives and road saftey over the line of sight from Slane down the river, a line of site where none of the monuments can be seen? What exactly is special about the line of sight from Slane down the boyne? Mainly people go down to the boyne valley rather than looking into it from Slane.

I'm sorry, please point to the part of my post where I offered to sacrifice lives.
I only asked whether or not an archaeological survey of the area would take line of sight into account.
Sites need studying in their landscape and if the site will be destroyed, or the view anyway, then it needs to be recorded by someone to include in the record. This can be done with a complex GIS programme (see Delle 1998 for instance).

Riamfada · 26-01-2010 11:38am

gravensteen wrote: »

I'm sorry, please point to the part of my post where I offered to sacrifice lives.
I only asked whether or not an archaeological survey of the area would take line of sight into account.
Sites need studying in their landscape and if the site will be destroyed, or the view anyway, then it needs to be recorded by someone to include in the record. This can be done with a complex GIS programme (see Delle 1998 for instance).

There is a line of site into the Valley if you stand at the layby at the bend on the current road on the South side of the Boyne at Slane. But you cannot see anything of archaeological interest. Standing at Newgrange, Knowth or Dowth you cannot see Slane or the proposed bridge on the horizon.

The visual line of sight from Slane down the river will be affected however how many people stand at Slane and look down the river and say "over that ridge and around that bend just where we cant see is Newgrange, its about 2km away". I dont see what you would be GIS mapping and that line of sight still exists if you stand on the new bridge rather than the old one. So really nothing is being affected other than the historic and rustic landscape of Slane but if the locals are on for it, I have no right to complain.

Finally the road is outside the buffer zone. If the bridge was running through it I would have an issue, if the bridge was runnning outside the buffer zone but could be seen from either Dowth, Knowth or Newgrange I would have an issue. And to answer your question yes, archaeological and planning surveys of the site have taken into account the line of site.

Aelfric · 26-01-2010 4:27pm

Grimes wrote: »

Alot of misguided people there all taken from the Save Newgrange Facebook Page seem to believe that the passage grave of Newgrange is being destroyed. One person demanding that the Bru Na Boyne complex be classed as a UNESCO heritage site.

LOL. The Brú na Boinne complex was made a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1993, and was officially the first one in the Republic. Skellig Michael (1996) and the Giants Causeway (1986) are the other two Irish WH sites.

gravensteen · 27-01-2010 12:11am

Grimes wrote: »

There is a line of site into the Valley if you stand at the layby at the bend on the current road on the South side of the Boyne at Slane. But you cannot see anything of archaeological interest. Standing at Newgrange, Knowth or Dowth you cannot see Slane or the proposed bridge on the horizon.

The visual line of sight from Slane down the river will be affected however how many people stand at Slane and look down the river and say "over that ridge and around that bend just where we cant see is Newgrange, its about 2km away". I dont see what you would be GIS mapping and that line of sight still exists if you stand on the new bridge rather than the old one. So really nothing is being affected other than the historic and rustic landscape of Slane but if the locals are on for it, I have no right to complain.

Finally the road is outside the buffer zone. If the bridge was running through it I would have an issue, if the bridge was runnning outside the buffer zone but could be seen from either Dowth, Knowth or Newgrange I would have an issue. And to answer your question yes, archaeological and planning surveys of the site have taken into account the line of site.

I'm not suggesting scrapping the road.
I'm just suggesting that someone should record the line of sight from Slane and not from a landscape already disturbed. Disturb by all means, but record first.
If there's nothing to see, then why are people claiming that the line of sight will be ruined in the first place?

Riamfada · 27-01-2010 3:11am

gravensteen wrote: »

If there's nothing to see, then why are people claiming that the line of sight will be ruined in the first place?

I do agree with you but just on this, it seems the majority of people who join these groups havnt avtually been to the site and are being misinformed into thinking that Newgrange itself will be affected. Its another case of militant anarchists using archaeology and heritage as a weapon for their own gains. Sad days

tuathal · 27-01-2010 5:59pm

Grimes wrote: »

Thats a very sensible question Ken. Personally I believe there will be no effects to the Bru Na Boyne site despite some visual interference from Slane Village down to the river bend, this of course will be nullified if one stands on the bridge and looks down the river. . Having visited the site and toured the proposed area with Prof Cooney of UCD there will be no effect from Newgrange, Knowth or Dowth as the bridge is kilometers away and blocked visually by topography and simple distance.

My two cents but judging by the opposition sites which state

"I can't deal with this crowd of so-called archaeologists. George Eogan is the only one with any principle and any respect for the past. It does not help that my archaeology department is sponsored by the ****ing NRA! WTF is wrong with this country?!!!"

"As a person living in California which arguably has the most freeways and highways and roads on the planet this is disturbing news"

"It seems to me, that whenever a new major road is now planned in Eire, they look for the nearest ancient site of ancestral and historical importance."

Vincent Salafia "The people here are mostly expected to pay for this bypass. We are not against a bypass per se, but we do not think it should be so close to Bru na Boinne that's all. Once again the NRA and the County Manager have conspired to create a situation where people will approve anything, because it is the only option presented to them. Otherwise they would ave implemented the HGV ban and offered a western route"

"This is all part of a slow destruction of the entire area aimed not just from European consortiums and USA but some modern battle of the boyne from interests in London"

"I havn't been to Newgrange, but apart from it's obvious heritage value it also strikes me as a place to be enjoyed / experienced in relative silence. Traffic noise is a distraction that will cheapen that experience, and it's easy to imagine visitors and tourists saying 'why on earth did the Irish put a motorway here?'...."

Alot of misguided people there all taken from the Save Newgrange Facebook Page seem to believe that the passage grave of Newgrange is being destroyed. One person demanding that the Bru Na Boyne complex be classed as a UNESCO heritage site. These are the people who stand on pickets and intimidate construction workers. (we call them lefties ;))

Nice political rant, but I am a member of the Save Newgange facebook group, and I don't see the quote from Mr Salafia you are talking about. Can you give us a link please?

tuathal · 27-01-2010 6:14pm

Grimes wrote: »

I do agree with you but just on this, it seems the majority of people who join these groups havnt avtually been to the site and are being misinformed into thinking that Newgrange itself will be affected. Its another case of militant anarchists using archaeology and heritage as a weapon for their own gains. Sad days

That is a ridiculous statement. There is no talk of camps or any kind of militancy. There is talk of the planning process, which is still under way. Perhaps Mr Salafia's letter to the Irish Times yesterday will clarify the matter and calm your unjustified fears:

Controversy over Slane bypass proposal
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2010/0126/1224263115313.html

Madam, – In struggling to defend the preferred route for the N2 Slane Bypass, which runs 500m from the edge of the Bend of the Boyne Unesco World Heritage Site, a spokesman for the National Roads Authority (NRA) said, “we have selected a route with the least impact” (Home News, January 22nd). This is not true and there is no doubt that a western bypass would have a much lesser impact, as the proposed dual carriageway will sever the World Heritage Site from the village of Slane, and box it in between the M2 motorway and a dual carriageway.

As your reporter Elaine Keogh noted, the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) for the project acknowledges “44 archaeological and cultural sites” will be within 500m of the roadway. The potential to uncover much more during work is high. In addition, the EIS identified 21 architectural heritage sites within the study area, including the Ledwidge Cottage, birth-place of Ireland’s most famous first World War poet, Francis Ledwidge. The 19th-century farm labourer’s cottage is now a museum dedicated to him. The EIS also states, “The wider landscape is judged as being of very high value and the River Boyne valley is deemed as being of ‘exceptional’ value.”

According to the Unesco website, “The Archaeological Ensemble of the Bend of the Boyne” is “Europe’s largest and most important concentration of prehistoric megalithic art. The monuments there had social, economic, religious and funerary functions. The committee inscribed the site under criteria (i), (iii) and (iv) and invited the Irish authorities to control carefully future developments in and around the site and to involve Icomos (International Council on Monuments and Sites) in conservation and management planning.”

Criterion (i) is “to represent a masterpiece of human creative genius”; (iii) is “to bear a unique or at least exceptional testimony to a cultural tradition or to a civilisation which is living or which has disappeared”; and (iv) is “to be an outstanding example of a type of building, architectural or technological ensemble or landscape which illustrates [a] significant stage(s) in human history.” There is little doubt that the 44 known archaeological sites, and the numerous others yet to be discovered within the 3.5km stretch, are related to the archaeological ensemble.

This makes the site a perfect candidate for the Unesco List of World Heritage in Danger, which is designed “to inform the international community of conditions which threaten the very characteristics for which a property was inscribed on the World Heritage List, and to encourage corrective action.” Although the Irish authorities claim they have written to Unesco, they have not publicly reported a response prior to picking the preferred route, and the clock is now ticking for making objections.

Meath County Council has already issued notices for compulsory purchase of land, despite the fact that planning permission is far from being granted, and public consultation continues.

Dr Edgar Morgenrath, associate research professor and co-ordinator of the Transport and Infrastructure Research Programme at the Economic and Social Research Institute noted: “It is remarkable that there are plans to facilitate the avoidance of the toll on the M1 by building a bypass around Slane involving the expensive construction of a bridge over the river Boyne when a simple HGV ban would solve the local traffic problems” (Opinion, April 24th, 2009). Meath councillors voted in 2009 “to ban HGVs going through Slane because of the dangerous and steep incline from the bridge on the N2 into the village.” (Home News, July 16th, 2009).

The county manager has failed implement the ban, which would have been the solution with the “least impact”. The next best option would have been a western bypass, but instead the NRA has chosen the route with the most impact. – Yours, etc,

VINCENT SALAFIA,

You can link up with the Facebook group at:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=438725795435&ref=mf

Facebook Cause:
http://apps.facebook.com/causes/causes/438679

Save Newgrange Petition
http://www.savenewgrange.net

Save Newgrange Twitter
https://twitter.com/savenewgrange

Cutting hairs over the accuracy of the name is unnecessary. Calling the campaign 'Save the Archaeological Ensemble of the Bend of the Boyne World Heritage Site would be too long. The two names, Newgrange and Bru na Boinne are synonymous to most people. The bypass goes within 500m of the World Heritage Site.

Riamfada · 27-01-2010 7:58pm

I know I am sorry. It is very unreasonable of me to suggest or assume that anyone involved in the Save Tara campaign would partake on campaigns of misinformation, intimidation of security, archaeology and construction workers, set up camps in the vicinity of a monment or infact in tunnels under monuments and such tactics would never be employed in the Save Newgrange campaign. Save Newgrange of course consisting of completely different characters than those who made a complete dogs dinner of trying to "Save Tara".

Regarding the quote I will be sure to include it in my next post if it is not gone. I note that a very long post by an archaeologist criticising the group on its page was deleted. It would seem that "Save Newgrange" are not as open to free speech as we are here on boards.ie. Also if you consider renaming your group and educating your members Ill even consider joining it but for a reason I will explain below.

Finally its called a buffer zone for a reason. What is inside is whats protected, what is outside is not. This has been the case with the UNESCO site for the past decade, I am suprised that none of you actually reaised this point in this time regarding the bridge at Slane until the site has already been chosen. I visited the site 12 months ago to look at the location of the bridge. That would have been an excellent time to discuss your concerns. I fear that you are not really clued into the archaeology, landscape management, Newgrange or the people Slane. Thats why your campaign will fail considering you had a much stronger case for Tara and that failed. All that you did was waste a hell of alot of taxpayers money. I would also be suprised if you stood at the side of the road in Slane where you can see the river and looked for yourself.

Also it simply means that the line of sight is shifting, rather than standing at the side of the currently very busy road and looking down the river to the Boyne Valley you will simply be standing on a different road 500m east looking down the river at the boyne valley. I fail to see the problem. Also I fail to promote the idea of conservation for no reason. 44 whole sites? monastaries, towerhouses, ritual deposition? please fill us in I would like to hear what these 44 sites are from your point of view rather than from an EIS

My own views, I think a new bridge will destroy the rustic and picturesque Slane village. However I dont live there, I pass through the area occasionally and it is wanted by the locals to save lives so I dont really have any right to be protesting their decision. Its not my landscape and I dont have to live in it.

G

gravensteen · 28-01-2010 2:06am

Also it simply means that the line of sight is shifting, rather than standing at the side of the currently very busy road and looking down the river to the Boyne Valley you will simply be standing on a different road 500m east looking down the river at the boyne valley. I fail to see the problem.

changing the line of sight has implications for phenomonological or experiential study of the area (hence the need for recording).

tuathal · 28-01-2010 4:21am

Grimes wrote: »

I know I am sorry. It is very unreasonable of me to suggest or assume that anyone involved in the Save Tara campaign would partake on campaigns of misinformation, intimidation of security, archaeology and construction workers, set up camps in the vicinity of a monment or infact in tunnels under monuments and such tactics would never be employed in the Save Newgrange campaign. Save Newgrange of course consisting of completely different characters than those who made a complete dogs dinner of trying to "Save Tara".

Regarding the quote I will be sure to include it in my next post if it is not gone. I note that a very long post by an archaeologist criticising the group on its page was deleted. It would seem that "Save Newgrange" are not as open to free speech as we are here on boards.ie. Also if you consider renaming your group and educating your members Ill even consider joining it but for a reason I will explain below.

Finally its called a buffer zone for a reason. What is inside is whats protected, what is outside is not. This has been the case with the UNESCO site for the past decade, I am suprised that none of you actually reaised this point in this time regarding the bridge at Slane until the site has already been chosen. I visited the site 12 months ago to look at the location of the bridge. That would have been an excellent time to discuss your concerns. I fear that you are not really clued into the archaeology, landscape management, Newgrange or the people Slane. Thats why your campaign will fail considering you had a much stronger case for Tara and that failed. All that you did was waste a hell of alot of taxpayers money. I would also be suprised if you stood at the side of the road in Slane where you can see the river and looked for yourself.

Also it simply means that the line of sight is shifting, rather than standing at the side of the currently very busy road and looking down the river to the Boyne Valley you will simply be standing on a different road 500m east looking down the river at the boyne valley. I fail to see the problem. Also I fail to promote the idea of conservation for no reason. 44 whole sites? monastaries, towerhouses, ritual deposition? please fill us in I would like to hear what these 44 sites are from your point of view rather than from an EIS

My own views, I think a new bridge will destroy the rustic and picturesque Slane village. However I dont live there, I pass through the area occasionally and it is wanted by the locals to save lives so I dont really have any right to be protesting their decision. Its not my landscape and I dont have to live in it.

G

It is hard to expect you to be reasonable, considering the quotes you invented for Mr Salafia above. You didn't supply a link to them because they are fictitious and should be removed

You complain about supposedly misguided people misrepresenting the proximity of the bypass to Newgrange, when in fact the very first RTE news report on this is entitled 'Slane bypass would run close to Newgrange' and says 'Controversy expected'
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0121/slane.html

Trying to drag the Tara campaign into this is weak, as planning permission hasn't even been granted yet. As for deleted posts, the Save Newgrange campaign was subjected to attacks by a couple of different groups, who tried to create conflict and chaos. The site is designed for supporters of the cause, in order to organise a campaign, and people were directed to Indymedia and politics.ie to engage in moderated debates. We will direct them here too. This thread could use some facts and reliable, referenced material, so people can make informed choices

Riamfada · 28-01-2010 12:17pm

gravensteen wrote: »

changing the line of sight has implications for phenomonological or experiential study of the area (hence the need for recording).

If you assume that the current "viewpoint" was an important area for people viewing the valley in prehistory. have you any evidence for this? Is it not just a handy viewing point because thats where the modern road runs, and its not really a viewing point more of a layby

Riamfada · 28-01-2010 12:20pm

tuathal wrote: »

It is hard to expect you to be reasonable, considering the quotes you invented for Mr Salafia above. You didn't supply a link to them because they are fictitious and should be removed

You complain about supposedly misguided people misrepresenting the proximity of the bypass to Newgrange, when in fact the very first RTE news report on this is entitled 'Slane bypass would run close to Newgrange' and says 'Controversy expected'
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0121/slane.html

Trying to drag the Tara campaign into this is weak, as planning permission hasn't even been granted yet. As for deleted posts, the Save Newgrange campaign was subjected to attacks by a couple of different groups, who tried to create conflict and chaos. The site is designed for supporters of the cause, in order to organise a campaign, and people were directed to Indymedia and politics.ie to engage in moderated debates. We will direct them here too. This thread could use some facts and reliable, referenced material, so people can make informed choices

I guess your posts speaks for itself. The Salafia comment was deleted from your page along with any posts that offer any objection to your point of view. My discussion with you is over.Your funny

tuathal · 28-01-2010 1:19pm

Grimes wrote: »

I guess your posts speaks for itself. The Salafia comment was deleted from your page along with any posts that offer any objection to your point of view. My discussion with you is over.Your funny

The Salafia comment was invented by you, and I am shocked to see you are actually a moderator here.

Riamfada · 28-01-2010 2:33pm

I dont make up facts, thats pretty much the remit of Indymedia, Vincent Salfia and all of the anarchist rent-a-twats that follow him in some form of cultish fashion. Had a look for the post but obviously was deleted while you were clearing out all of logic and discussion from your webpage. Now I have made my points and you have accused me of making things up, I really dont care enough about a road through Slane to waste time making things up. Now I have helped turn this thread into a joke, unwittingly. If I was mod Id ban us both but no this conversation is over and so is the little war between you and me. Back to business, you wont get uniformed anti-establishment tripe here.

Bog Butter · 28-01-2010 8:46pm

tuathal wrote: »

You complain about supposedly misguided people misrepresenting the proximity of the bypass to Newgrange, when in fact the very first RTE news report on this is entitled 'Slane bypass would run close to Newgrange' and says 'Controversy expected'
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0121/slane.html

I made the point below in the infastructure forum. I also took the image from there.

RTE were erroneous in their reporting. I watched the main evening news when this was first reported. The reporter said the road would come within 500m of the monument in his opening headline. However when he went into the piece he said that it was the buffer zone.
I expect nothing less from the media. I followed the reporting on the M3 when Lismullin was an issue. All media were very poor in their reporting and showed a lack of any real insight into the issues. I wonder do RTE even know they were erroneous in this case?

From the 'SAVE NEWGRANGE':

The preferred route for the N2 Slane Bypass, County Meath, Ireland, announced in January 2010 by the National Roads Authority, runs 500 metres from the edge of the Bend of the Boyne UNESCO World Heritage Site.

Bog Butter · 28-01-2010 9:12pm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0121/slane.html

Here is what Ann Doyle said in the above report:

'the road will be located 500 meters from the world heritage site at Bru na Boinne'

This infers the road will be located 500 meters from a 'site at Bru na Boinne' . If she had of said 'of' instead of 'at' she would have been closer to the mark but still not correct. She should have said this:

'the road will be located 500 meters from the buffer zone of the world heritage site of Bru na Boinne'

Bog Butter · 28-01-2010 10:38pm

tuathal wrote: »

Trying to drag the Tara campaign into this is weak,

Mentioning the Tara campaign is very relevant at this juncture. The Tara protesters were very vocal and influential. They coloured the views people have of Tara and heritage in general. Therefore it is important that we make sure any protesters on this road are monitored. It is important to make sure that they are accurate in their reporting, decent in their behaviour and honest in their intentions.

I hope the SAVE NEWGRAGE protesters are going to be reasoned and logical people. I hope they do not lose the respect of the public by damaging machinery, blocking roads and issuing false statements. I hope they do not further damage the perspective the general public have of our heritage.

When people think of archaeology they should think of the wealth of knowledge gained through the discovery of sites and through the scientific excavation of them. They should not think of well intentioned but annoying, misguided people causing mayhem and anarchy.

The only way new sites are found is through development. Therefore it is important that when the news of such sites reaches the public that they are not synonyms with anarchy and mayhem. If this happens people lose respect and an appreciation of our past. People then equate archaeology with the blocking of progress.

If I had of been anti M3 I would still have been anti protesters. When the anti M3 protesters thought of archaeology they had a warm cosy feeling inside gained through a respect for the people of the past and through a perception of a mythical sacred landscape. They drew from the anarchist discourse of corruption, capitalism and greed. They did not separate the archaeological recording from this discourse. They failed to realise that the destruction of sites by the construction of a road is mitigated through archaeological investigation.

gravensteen · 29-01-2010 1:29am

Grimes wrote: »

If you assume that the current "viewpoint" was an important area for people viewing the valley in prehistory. have you any evidence for this? Is it not just a handy viewing point because thats where the modern road runs, and its not really a viewing point more of a layby

I don't assume anything at all. I don't live in the area and I don't study it. The point I was making was that if the viewpoint has - in the past - been considered important by people who study the area, then it needs recording. Unfortunately these types of investigations aren't usually undertaken by commercial units and it would be a great pity to lose it without it being recorded first.

Also, I'd revise the 'militant anarchist' comment. Miltancy generally lies outside of the scope of most anarchists aspirations.
I would also like to point out (before I'm accused) that I am not an anarchist. Militant or otherwise.

Slane Resident · 02-02-2010 1:15am

Tuathal has posted alleging that Mr. Salafia has been misquoted. I haven't seen that post myself. However, I can verify that multiple postings are being removed from the Save Newgrange site, even if those postings are merely presenting the facts. At least one person subsequently received an email from Mr. Salafia stating that the Save Newgrange site was not a place for balanced or moderated debate! :rolleyes:

Mr. Salafia has referred to these posts as abusive When challenged to reply what is abusive about stating that the proposed road is to be 500 metres from the buffer zone around the BnB site, rather than 500 metres from Newgrange, he starts talking about conspiracies. He has gone onto the Bypass Slane Campaign facebook page to "discuss" the issues, but any post which he feels dissents from the party line is removed from the Save Newgrange site.

It was a relief to be able to come onto a website and read some measured and informed debate. Thanks!

Riamfada · 02-02-2010 1:46am

Slane Resident wrote: »

Tuathal has posted alleging that Mr. Salafia has been misquoted. I haven't seen that post myself. However, I can verify that multiple postings are being removed from the Save Newgrange site, even if those postings are merely presenting the facts. At least one person subsequently received an email from Mr. Salafia stating that the Save Newgrange site was not a place for balanced or moderated debate! :rolleyes:

Mr. Salafia has referred to these posts as abusive When challenged to reply what is abusive about stating that the proposed road is to be 500 metres from the buffer zone around the BnB site, rather than 500 metres from Newgrange, he starts talking about conspiracies. He has gone onto the Bypass Slane Campaign facebook page to "discuss" the issues, but any post which he feels dissents from the party line is removed from the Save Newgrange site.

It was a relief to be able to come onto a website and read some measured and informed debate. Thanks!

As a resident of Slane can you give use an idea of the local relationship with the Boyne complex?

Slane Resident · 03-02-2010 12:55am

Sorry, Grimes, not being disingenuous (I'm probably having a slow day) but in what respect? As in, our commitment to the preservation of the Boyne complex?

Slane and Bru na Boinne are inherently linked in the minds of most locals. We know we're privileged to live in such a wonderfully rich area. No matter how long I've lived here, if I'm driving from Dublin into Slane and I turn the corner to the hill just before the bridge, the view takes my breath away. To see the Hill of Slane with St. Ercs perched above the landscape is just magnificent and you never get bored with it.

Newgrange is about a ten minute drive from Slane. Knowth and Dowth are about the same. If you drive certain back roads to Drogheda from Slane you will pass Newgrange on your left. This road is much closer to Newgrange than the proposed new road.

There's been a lot of talk about a bypass to the west being preferable. This road would run between the Hill of Slane and a quarry. It would be higher and therefore more visible. It would run through some of the grounds of Slane Castle, and close to St. Erc's hermitage. This would cause actual damage, as opposed to the proposed road which would not affect Newgrange at all.

If Newgrange was threatened, the people in Slane would be up in arms. We would still demand our bypass, but on a different route.

thegreenspirit · 03-02-2010 11:14am

The Slane Bypass.
The M3 Motorway is a key part of the plan to upgrade the overall roads network for the country. It will significantly improve road transport connections between the North West and the East of the country. The transport corridor that links the North West, Cavan and North Meath with Dublin City is one of the busiest in the country. The existing road is struggling to cope with the hugely increased volumes brought about by the population explosion in towns such as Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells, as well as other areas of County Meath. When complete the M3 will enable motorists to by-pass those towns.
From the M3 website http://www.m3motorway.ie

To by- pass towns in North Meath, one reason given by those who planned and built the M3 and the justification for the environmental damage, huge expense and heritage carnage that it cost. Similar reasons were given for the construction of the nearby M1.
Slane is in north Meath and sits between both of these motorways, closer I think than any town to two motorways anywhere on our planet. Yet they now want to build another road and when that one is finished then what? Build another?
Would it not be better to use the money to repair the ones falling apart all over Meath?
The other reason given for the M3 construction ; to facilitate the population explosion.
It has never failed to baffle me why the people of Ireland stayed so quiet about what was in fact an invasion.
Between 2000 and 2008 Ireland experience population growth that was unprecedented in any country in European history. It was about 75% more per year than experienced by England, in relation to size and population, (Mentioned in the Dail, 28/02/08).
This for a country which never had an empire, a history of colonization or invasion.
In research published on December 23rd 2009, the Central Statistics Office (CSO) shows that 967,800 PPSNs were issued to foreigners between 2002 and 2008; as reported in the Irish Times December 24th 2009.
This amounted to one in four of our native population. It did not include the dependents of the workers or their children or Asylum seekers. This explosion led to the estates, the roads and eventually to the economic mire we are now in. Without that explosion it could not have happened. It baffles me even more that people connected to environmentalism, heritage and sustainability movements stayed as quiet as those who did not care a hoot about anything. They still do.
Where does this need to destroy ourselves come from? Do we hate ourselves and so hate our past and the sites connected to it? Do we believe that the present situation we find ourselves in is normal, that litter, unemployment, a destroyed environment, a society falling apart and a failed economy is our natural state?
The politics of hubris that led to this; the politics of Fianna Fail pushes the Slane bypass too. Staying quiet about it, or agreeing to it, or looking away from it is suicidal madness.

Slane Resident · 03-02-2010 5:34pm

The Green Spirit, the proposed Slane bypass has nothing to do with a population explosion. The first recorded fatality was 50 years ago when a 24 year old cyclist, a Slane resident, was struck by a lorry which lost braking power coming down the hill from Collon. The same thing as happened in 2001 when David Garvey was killed. The same thing as happened in 2009 when a lorry ran into seven cars.

At issue is the fact that Slane is, according to the Guards, in the top 1% of the most dangerous roads in the country. Lorries travelling on the N2 come through Collon, come down a steep hill, and find when they get into Slane and have to stop at traffic lights, that their brakes have overheated and they can't stop. They then drive over anything that's in their way.

I'm not even going to reply to your thinly veiled attacks on immigration. Just not going there. The situation in Slane has nothing to do with immigrants.

Slane by-pass and the Archaeology beneth

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