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Merrion Gates removal scheme

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Comments

  • #252
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    p_haugh wrote: »
    Sandymount is prone to flooding and it is a flat area, so it would be unlikely but depending on how severe the flooding is it could still reach the rail line

    There are countless buildings closer to the sea which have basements along that stretch. Elm Park and Merrion centre to name but a few.
    The fear of flooding along this stretch is being greatly exaggerated given
    1) the existing line would be flooded in such an event
    2) the plan was for an underpass at the location of the Merrion Gates


  • #253
    roddney
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭roddney


    Or just close the line down and build a new underground joining in at Grand Canal Dock to Donnybrook and roughly following the N11.

    There's be houses on both sides rather than just one side (and the sea), which would make for a far higher capacity service.


  • #254
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    roddney wrote: »
    Or just close the line down and build a new underground joining in at Grand Canal Dock to Donnybrook and roughly following the N11.

    There's be houses on both sides rather than just one side (and the sea), which would make for a far higher capacity service.

    They have planned that already except they started at Tara St, and routed to SSG and onto Sandyford. They will get there eventually. I think it is called Metrolink.


  • #255
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    roddney wrote: »
    Or just close the line down and build a new underground joining in at Grand Canal Dock to Donnybrook and roughly following the N11.

    There's be houses on both sides rather than just one side (and the sea), which would make for a far higher capacity service.

    While I have advocated using the central median of the N11 for a Luas line, using it for a heavy rail line is a completely different ball game.

    Not wanting to sound pedantic but you’re confusing capacity and demand. The DART has very high capacity but as you said it’s demand is restricted to one side. Having said that, the demand is very strong so the best solution would be to upgrade the line through the removal of the level crossings.


  • #256
    Khuitlio
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Khuitlio


    Irish Rail have just launched a plan for closing 7 level crossings on the Cork to Dublin line. Hopefully this is the start of them getting rid of all level crossings.

    https://www.irishrail.ie/About-Us/Iarnrod-Eireann-Projects-and-Investments/Cork-Line-Level-Crossings-Project


  • #257
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    They have planned that already except they started at Tara St, and routed to SSG and onto Sandyford. They will get there eventually. I think it is called Metrolink.

    That’s a totally different project/proposal
    Different gauges
    Different networks
    Different catchments
    The N11 is far further east than the green line. It’s between 2-3km away at Dundrum for example. That’s well outside the typical 1km catchment area for a metro line.


  • #258
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Last Stop wrote: »
    That’s a totally different project/proposal
    Different gauges
    Different networks
    Different catchments
    The N11 is far further east than the green line. It’s between 2-3km away at Dundrum for example. That’s well outside the typical 1km catchment area for a metro line.

    Let us build one Metrolink line and then we might build a second one.
    There is no reason why the ML could not be built on the Irish gauge, but it will not be.
    There are plans to extend the GL Luas towards Bray, and it could be extended south towards Greystones.


  • #259
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Let us build one Metrolink line and then we might build a second one.
    There is no reason why the ML could not be built on the Irish gauge, but it will not be.
    There are plans to extend the GL Luas towards Bray, and it could be extended south towards Greystones.

    ML can't be Irish gauge unless you plan to rip up the green line. Also the point of using standard gauge is being able to buy rolling stock off the shelf


  • #260
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    ML can't be Irish gauge unless you plan to rip up the green line. Also the point of using standard gauge is being able to buy rolling stock off the shelf

    I know that, but the advantage of Irish gauge would be to allow ML trains to run up the northern line to Drogheda. The GL from Charlemont to Sandyford is only 7 km of open track, so not a great expense. Some of the track will be relaid such as the St Raphaela's Rd crossing, and the section from Charlemont to Beechwood. The difference is only 16.5 cm, or 6.5 inches. It is hardly going to make a huge difference in cost since it only applies to the bogies.

    Mod: This is going off topic, so can we stop this. ML is not going to be anything but standard gauge, and there is no way the Dart Line is being closed.


  • #261
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,551 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Khuitlio wrote: »
    Irish Rail have just launched a plan for closing 7 level crossings on the Cork to Dublin line. Hopefully this is the start of them getting rid of all level crossings.

    https://www.irishrail.ie/About-Us/Iarnrod-Eireann-Projects-and-Investments/Cork-Line-Level-Crossings-Project

    The "start" was about fifteen years ago; they have a plan to close or automate all crossings and have been working away at them since then. There's some presentations that were given to various events up on their website if you can find them about batches done on specific lines.

    One crossing of that 7 on the Cork line is being retained as an automatic.


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  • #262
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I see the council are proposing to make Strand Road one way to accomodate improved cycling facilities.

    Has this any connection to this scheme?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/cars-to-give-way-for-sandymount-cycle-path-1.4324957

    Any word on how this is going to go down locally?


  • #263
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,184 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i suspect any objection from those who actually live on strand road will be tempered by the knowledge that it'll noticeably reduce HGV traffic outside their houses.


  • #264
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,295 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    There will be serious issues for people who rely on the East Link bridge to the Merrion gates if they can only get to it one way. It will force more traffic in towards the city centre. It would make one want to jump into the Liffey.


  • #265
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,441 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i suspect any objection from those who actually live on strand road will be tempered by the knowledge that it'll noticeably reduce HGV traffic outside their houses.

    There won’t be any basis for an objection as it is planned to be implemented on a “temporary” basis under Covid emergency legislation just like that in DLR, ie Blackrock to Sandycove. There is no effective control over the decision making process of the council executive on this.


  • #266
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Marcusm wrote: »
    There won’t be any basis for an objection as it is planned to be implemented on a “temporary” basis under Covid emergency legislation just like that in DLR, ie Blackrock to Sandycove. There is no effective control over the decision making process of the council executive on this.

    Apart from Judicial Review....


  • #267
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,441 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Apart from Judicial Review....

    Without an injunction, which might be hard to obtain in these periods of light traffic, a judicial review would be 12-18 months away, I would guesstimate. The Sandymount scheme might be more disruptive (due to greater number of goods vehicles etc) that Blackrock, Monkstown etc but I suspect that the availability of a large number of other routes for all but the most local of traffic would doom any JR to failure.


  • #268
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The original plan was to put a bridge to divert traffic through the two carparks either side of the railway, one beside the Our Lady Queen of Peace church on the Merrion Road and the other beside Merrion Hall on Strand Road.

    The project was part of a cycle lane project along Dublin Bay as far as Seapoint. The project was dropped because of local outrage at the loss of parking in front gardens.

    If this works, expect the renewed attempt at the bridge.

    However, the one-way system is not necessary. The current pedestrian footpath next to the road can be diverted onto the existing footpath down the centre of the linear park, and the pedestrian footpath can be repurposed as a two-way cycle lane.

    One way vehicular traffic will be difficult because there is no natural alternative for the other direction.

    HGVs are banned from that route.


  • #269
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    HGVs are banned from Strand Road too though


  • #270
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    MJohnston wrote: »
    HGVs are banned from Strand Road too though

    If I'm reading this map correctly, HGVs are allowed on Strand Road. It's actually a designated route, presumably because of its proximity to East Link and the Port.

    I'm pretty sure HGVs are allowed on Merrion Road too. I've only ever seen No HGV signs when I turn off Merrion or Strand Roads, and not on the road themselves.


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  • #271
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    If I'm reading this map correctly, HGVs are allowed on Strand Road. It's actually a designated route, presumably because of its proximity to East Link and the Port.

    I'm pretty sure HGVs are allowed on Merrion Road too. I've only ever seen No HGV signs when I turn off Merrion or Strand Roads, and not on the road themselves.

    Five axle trucks are banned on Strand Road but not HGVs per se but they are OK on Merrion Road. Three tonne vehicles are banned on most nearby roads through Sandymount and Sydney Parade


  • #272
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,441 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Five axle trucks are banned on Strand Road but not HGVs per se but they are OK on Merrion Road. Three tonne vehicles are banned on most nearby roads through Sandymount and Sydney Parade

    Those are still only 7 to 7 bans aren’t they? And overridden by the trucks with permits to deliver within the city? Irrespective, the current proposal is independent of the Merrion Gates scheme and will no doubt be implemented on a trial/emergency basis irrespective of the long term plans.


  • #273
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Marcusm wrote: »
    Those are still only 7 to 7 bans aren’t they? And overridden by the trucks with permits to deliver within the city? Irrespective, the current proposal is independent of the Merrion Gates scheme and will no doubt be implemented on a trial/emergency basis irrespective of the long term plans.

    No, the 5 axle ban is 24 Hrs as is the 3 ton limit on some of the connecting streets like Sydney Parade Ave.


  • #274
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I think this is going to be very difficult to pull off. Whether they like it or not the strand road is a main route for people coming and going towards the east link/port tunnel etc. It's not like Blackrock or Seapoint where they are secondary routes off the N11.


    The pinch points for cyclist is mainly between Gilford drive and Marine drive, the most obvious solution would be getting rid off the on-street parking but that would cause war with the residents however a one way choc o block system badly implement could be even worse.


  • #275
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I cannot see a one way system working on Strand Rd as there is nowhere the return path can go. They need a better solution.


  • #276
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    cisk wrote: »
    I think this is going to be very difficult to pull off. Whether they like it or not the strand road is a main route for people coming and going towards the east link/port tunnel etc. It's not like Blackrock or Seapoint where they are secondary routes off the N11.


    The pinch points for cyclist is mainly between Gilford drive and Marine drive, the most obvious solution would be getting rid off the on-street parking but that would cause war with the residents however a one way choc o block system badly implement could be even worse.

    Implement an unpopular one way system to draw all the outrage, then offer the removal of a few parking spaces as a climbdown?

    EDIT: For the record I reckon this is absolutely the way to get your desired project past NIMBY attitudes, propose something far worse and then offer your intended solution as a 'climbdown', not sure if its really allowed/feasible from a procedural standpoint, and probably doesn't work coming from an elected representative...


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  • #277
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    Implement an unpopular one way system to draw all the outrage, then offer the removal of a few parking spaces as a climbdown?

    Pretty sure that removing the footpath will also draw criticism :D :pac:


  • #278
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,441 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    No, the 5 axle ban is 24 Hrs as is the 3 ton limit on some of the connecting streets like Sydney Parade Ave.

    The 5 axle ban is only 7 to 7 unless there is some other restriction on Strand Road.


  • #279
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Marcusm wrote: »
    The 5 axle ban is only 7 to 7 unless there is some other restriction on Strand Road.

    You are correct It is Sydney Parade that has the 24 hr ban.


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