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Not sure where to start

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  • 06-05-2020 9:45pm
    #1
    albernazj93
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭


    Hey guys,

    I moved in to my new house in December and the builders were supposed to finish the garden by the end of March, but the coronavirus came and BOOM, I haven't got the garden done yet.

    Many people in the estate (who has got the garden done by the builders) are complaining saying the garden looks awful, the grass is terrible, etc.

    I'm considering doing it myself then! cool.png

    I have no idea where to start though. A friend told me I should:
    1. Get the soil really wet
    2. Use a sort of roller to make the soil compact and plan.
    3. Use a garden rake to remove all small stones, plastic, glass, etc.
    4. Plant the seeds
    5. Keep watering it for a few days

    I don't think it would be this easy. What do you guys suggest?
    Which tools would I need?

    That will be a nice way to enjoy the good weather and do some DIY. biggrin.png

    Thanks a lot!

    Attached some pics that show the garden:


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    #2
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,330 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    first thing, cancel your gym membership. you won't need it anymore.
    second - buy/borrow a garden fork and check how compacted the soil is. if it's badly compacted - which is common in a new build - you may want to rotovate it before considering your next move. it'll allow plants to grow better, and improve drainage.

    one thing the builders will often do is top dress the garden with topsoil (over the subsoil which is often present). one reason for doing this is that it's better soil to grow grass in, and the second is that they often use it to hide a multitude of sins . but if your garden has not been done in this way, you may just have subsoil, which is often heavy, clay-y and poorly draining.


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    #3
    albernazj93
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭albernazj93


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    first thing, cancel your gym membership. you won't need it anymore.
    second - buy/borrow a garden fork and check how compacted the soil is. if it's badly compacted - which is common in a new build - you may want to rotovate it before considering your next move. it'll allow plants to grow better, and improve drainage.

    one thing the builders will often do is top dress the garden with topsoil (over the subsoil which is often present). one reason for doing this is that it's better soil to grow grass in, and the second is that they often use it to hide a multitude of sins . but if your garden has not been done in this way, you may just have subsoil, which is often heavy, clay-y and poorly draining.


    Hahaha another reason to work in the garden. The gym is closed :D


    Can I rotovate with the garden fork or garden roke?


    I just googled it here:
    "Topsoil is the upper, outermost layer of soil, usually the top 5–10 inches. It has the highest concentration of organic matter and microorganisms and is where most of the Earth's biological soil activity occurs"


    So maybe would be better to wait for them as they will use this topsoil? Or can I do it myself after rotovate it?


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    #4
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,330 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    if the builders were planning on topdressing with topsoil, they'd probably only add an inch or two.
    you can rotovate with a garden fork - it's basically just turning the soil over, breaking up compacted sections - but it'd be backbreaking work to do it manually; if you've got a few spare bob to hire a petrol rotovator, it'd make life a lot easier. if you were going to the trouble, it'd be a wise move to add soil conditioner in, to make it less clay-y (clayey?). this sort of stuff: https://mulch.ie/product/organic-soil-enricher

    one thing worth mentioning, going back to what your friend said - it'd been so dry recently that you'd want to give the soil a good soak before tackling it regardless. it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the soil could be decent anyway, but my wife's garden when she bought a new build was like concrete. the issue is that the builders could have driven machinery back and forth across the soil, and the compaction caused by this could have been made worse if it was done during the wet winter we had.


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    #5
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,052 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Builders are not gardeners and I don't think there has ever been an estate house where the builders have done an even remotely good job, you will end up doing it yourself anyway. Ask the builders are they going to put top soil on. As in, you will be putting some topsoil on there, won't you? Then do a deal with them to deliver it to you but you do the prep work. Win/win.

    It isn't a massive area, get in there with a fork and dig it over (you should see what I am digging over at the moment, about the same area and a nightmare of roots, rocks and rubbish). It will be easier to dig when there has been a few hours of soft rain on it, leave it soak in then dig! Don't try to do it if it is really wet and muddy. As magicbastarder says, break up any compacted soil, remove any rubbish, level, rake, and press it down a bit (walk on it) then get in the topsoil.


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    #6
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    Let the builders do it save yourself the backache and it's not as easy as it looks. How big is the lawn area?


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    #7
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Make a pile of the larger stones that you can see, on the footpath.
    Rent a petrol powered rotavator from your local DIY Rental place, and do the lawn. It'll take a day, and will do a good job at it. No point pulling a muscle that you won't be able to goto the doc about.
    Weed the garden.

    The builders will do the fastest cheapest job that they can.


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    #8
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,009 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    albernazj93 wrote: »
    A friend told me I should:
    1. Get the soil really wet
    2. Use a sort of roller to make the soil compact and plan.
    ..

    That's odd advice. Soil compaction is exactly what you don't want, and working wet soil creates compaction.


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    #9
    albernazj93
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭albernazj93


    Sorry delay to post here guys. Thanks for the posts!


    It seems the builders are back next week so my garden should be done soon. I guess I will wait for them to do it but I will watch it closely.


    I will follow your tips so I make sure they are doing a good work.


    Following what you guys said I should watch if they:

    1. Rotovate the current soil

    2. Remove any rubbish, rocks, etc.
    3. Level it
    4. Rake (basically move the soil around)

    5. Apply topsoil on top of the current soil
    6. Plant the seeds


    Then finally

    7. BBQ and good weather :p



    I might get a soil conditioner as suggested so I ask them to apply it.


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    if the builders were planning on topdressing with topsoil, they'd probably only add an inch or two.
    you can rotovate with a garden fork - it's basically just turning the soil over, breaking up compacted sections - but it'd be backbreaking work to do it manually; if you've got a few spare bob to hire a petrol rotovator, it'd make life a lot easier. if you were going to the trouble, it'd be a wise move to add soil conditioner in, to make it less clay-y (clayey?). this sort of stuff: https://mulch.ie/product/organic-soil-enricher

    one thing worth mentioning, going back to what your friend said - it'd been so dry recently that you'd want to give the soil a good soak before tackling it regardless. it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the soil could be decent anyway, but my wife's garden when she bought a new build was like concrete. the issue is that the builders could have driven machinery back and forth across the soil, and the compaction caused by this could have been made worse if it was done during the wet winter we had.


    Yea, the soil here is like concrete too (at least when I step on it). I will keep the soil conditioner in mind.

    Do you think inch or two is not enough for a good soil?



    When I moved in the soil were soak. It was pure mud and I could not even step outside. Now its dry as the desert :D



    looksee wrote: »
    Builders are not gardeners and I don't think there has ever been an estate house where the builders have done an even remotely good job, you will end up doing it yourself anyway. Ask the builders are they going to put top soil on. As in, you will be putting some topsoil on there, won't you? Then do a deal with them to deliver it to you but you do the prep work. Win/win.

    It isn't a massive area, get in there with a fork and dig it over (you should see what I am digging over at the moment, about the same area and a nightmare of roots, rocks and rubbish). It will be easier to dig when there has been a few hours of soft rain on it, leave it soak in then dig! Don't try to do it if it is really wet and muddy. As magicbastarder says, break up any compacted soil, remove any rubbish, level, rake, and press it down a bit (walk on it) then get in the topsoil.


    Yea, that would be totally win/win. Thanks, great tips. I will watch for all these steps while they are working on it.

    They should start in the next two weeks as the foreman told me.

    Car99 wrote: »
    Let the builders do it save yourself the backache and it's not as easy as it looks. How big is the lawn area?


    It's about 70sqm. Not too big. I think I could do it but as the builders are getting back I will let them do the hard work, and I will watch them to make sure they are following the steps you guys suggested.

    the_syco wrote: »
    Make a pile of the larger stones that you can see, on the footpath.
    Rent a petrol powered rotavator from your local DIY Rental place, and do the lawn. It'll take a day, and will do a good job at it. No point pulling a muscle that you won't be able to goto the doc about.
    Weed the garden.

    The builders will do the fastest cheapest job that they can.


    Yea, I agree with you. They will try to do the fastest and cheapest way. I wish B&Q were open, I would have got all the tools already.


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    #10
    thejaguar
    Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭thejaguar


    I'm in a similar position at the moment - waiting on the builders to come back to get the garden sorted.

    It'd be great to hear how it goes - I could take some advice for dealing with my own builder.


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    #11
    albernazj93
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭albernazj93


    thejaguar wrote: »
    I'm in a similar position at the moment - waiting on the builders to come back to get the garden sorted.

    It'd be great to hear how it goes - I could take some advice for dealing with my own builder.


    Yea, sure! Whoever gets it sorted first comes back here to let the other know :)


    The foreman said they are back on Monday but it would take about 2 weeks to get all gardens sorted. Hopefully, my house is at the start of the list.


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    #12
    standardg60
    Registered Users Posts: 4,248 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Lumen wrote: »
    That's odd advice. Soil compaction is exactly what you don't want, and working wet soil creates compaction.

    Completely agree, don't get the wetting advice at all, perfect weather at the moment for giving it a good forking over and levelling. Sounds as though the soil is cr*p as usually left by builders, waterlogged in winter and dry as a bone in summer. It won't be any better if you let the builders finish it.
    Give yourself something to do and get stuck into it! Start at the end with say a metre wide strip and fork your way back to the house, reward yourself with a beer and start again. Fall into bed at five o clock.


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    #13
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,330 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    If that was me, I'd give it a good hose down a couple of hours before taking a crack at it, just enough to soften the soil and no more.


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    #14
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    If it were me I'd ask the builder to level it as much as they can, throw down their topsoil and then order rolls of turf myself.

    If you leave the builder to it then in a years time what you'll have is a patchy lawn with lots of stones and rocks protruding the surface.

    Turf for that size of garden wouldn't break the bank and you'd put it down yourself in a day if the prep is done. Two days if you've to do some prep.


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    #15
    thejaguar
    Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭thejaguar


    standardg60 wrote: »
    Sounds as though the soil is cr*p as usually left by builders, waterlogged in winter and dry as a bone in summer.
    awec wrote: »
    If you leave the builder to it then in a years time what you'll have is a patchy lawn with lots of stones and rocks protruding the surface.

    I have a mixture of both above at the moment - some useful advice here as I'm in the same boat - using the builders to get the heavy lifting done and finishing it myself might be the way to go.


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    #16
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    Are they're weeds in the area that the lawn will be planted in? If there are it would be advisable to kill them with weed killer as soon as possible if your builders will be back in a couple of weeks.


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    #17
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Can I propose you think a little longer about the ubiquitous square of mediocre quality grass, (which all starts with the soil and aspect, both of which are poor here) and put something more interesting or even functional in?

    Have you any budget left after moving in? Can it stretch to some pavers and some trees? A few hundred would make a big difference here.

    A bit of paving for your BBQ area. Some trees or plants for privacy, interest?


    https://www.homify.co.uk/ideabooks/5635492/how-to-make-small-back-gardens-super-stylish


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    #18
    albernazj93
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭albernazj93


    Builders are back!

    They did the job in two days.
    1st threw loads of topsoil
    2st rotovated for hours and took all the big stones away. Threw loads of seeds.


    The instructions were to water it if it does not rain in the next 3 days. I did water it today quit a bit (last two pics attached). Not sure how much or so often I should water it?



    I'm attaching a few pictures here. Let me know what you guys think. :)



    20200519-124438.jpg




    20200519-124849.jpg

    20200520-101222.jpg



    20200520-120124.jpg







    20200526-195353.jpg



    20200526-195359.jpg
    Car99 wrote: »
    Are they're weeds in the area that the lawn will be planted in? If there are it would be advisable to kill them with weed killer as soon as possible if your builders will be back in a couple of weeks.


    Thanks, I'll make sure to remove all weeds I can see. Actually I can see a few there.

    pwurple wrote: »
    Can I propose you think a little longer about the ubiquitous square of mediocre quality grass, (which all starts with the soil and aspect, both of which are poor here) and put something more interesting or even functional in?

    Have you any budget left after moving in? Can it stretch to some pavers and some trees? A few hundred would make a big difference here.

    A bit of paving for your BBQ area. Some trees or plants for privacy, interest?


    https://www.homify.co.uk/ideabooks/5635492/how-to-make-small-back-gardens-super-stylish


    These ideas look great!!! Budget is really low at the moment :(. Do you know any company that work on projects like that here in Ireland?


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    #19
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,052 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Those ideas would cost the same as another house. Well, ok, I exaggerate a bit. Only a bit.

    You have a tidy patch of potential grass for now, you really can't do anything till the grass is grown. Yes its boring, but its tidy. Take your time to watch videos, read info, research what is involved in a sophisticated bbq/outdoor living area.

    In due course you can try your hand at laying paving, putting in decking, building raised beds, whatever you fancy in your garden. Its more fun than just spending a heap of money to get someone else to do it, its satisfying, its exercise, its an interest, and your garden will evolve over time. Put in a couple of small trees (or largish shrubs). Do some reading, find out what trees would be suitable, come back and ask if what you fancy is suitable. Gardening, learning to garden, is very worthwhile.

    If I were spending money on that space I would be looking at getting the walls plastered.


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    #20
    albernazj93
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭albernazj93


    looksee wrote: »
    Those ideas would cost the same as another house. Well, ok, I exaggerate a bit. Only a bit.

    You have a tidy patch of potential grass for now, you really can't do anything till the grass is grown. Yes its boring, but its tidy. Take your time to watch videos, read info, research what is involved in a sophisticated bbq/outdoor living area.

    In due course you can try your hand at laying paving, putting in decking, building raised beds, whatever you fancy in your garden. Its more fun than just spending a heap of money to get someone else to do it, its satisfying, its exercise, its an interest, and your garden will evolve over time. Put in a couple of small trees (or largish shrubs). Do some reading, find out what trees would be suitable, come back and ask if what you fancy is suitable. Gardening, learning to garden, is very worthwhile.

    If I were spending money on that space I would be looking at getting the walls plastered.


    "its satisfying, its exercise, its an interest" I agree! I'll try to make it look good by myself. It will be a great DYI project.
    I had seen loads of videos on how to build decking. I think a decking in the back part of the garden would look nice!

    For now, I went to Woodies and got myself some flower seed. I did plant them in the corner of the garden to see how they will grow and learn a bit. Also, I got myself a plant, which I'm hoping to be able to transfer it from the pot to the garden soil at some stage.

    I thought it would be nice to share here a picture of the garden today



    20200602-181455.jpg

    IMG-20200602-WA0025.jpg


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    #21
    thejaguar
    Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭thejaguar


    albernazj93 wrote: »
    Yea, sure! Whoever gets it sorted first comes back here to let the other know :)

    You're definitely in the lead so far - the builder was supposed to drop in on Tuesday, then yesterday, now it's today.
    Mine is in better condition than yours was and my kids have taken ownership of the garden so I'm not sure if I want them to go digging it up now. We'll have to wait and see.....


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    #22
    albernazj93
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭albernazj93


    A new update:


    20200607-195228.jpg


    The grass seems to be growing well. I'm watering it every single day for about 30min to 1h. The soil gets wet until the next day.

    I read we should cut it for the first time when the grass reaches the height of 7cm. And it should be cut down to 5cm.

    I wish a had a manual mower; I will have to use my GF's one, which is electric and probably pretty heavy.

    Any suggestions on the next steps, guys?
    Should I seed a bit more the area without grass?
    I have a few weeds popping up since the previous soil wasn't treated before putting the topsoil. Should I use weed killer? Try to pull them (they might be at least 5cm down in the soil)

    Thanks!! :D Garden nearly ready for our precious few sunny days!



    thejaguar wrote: »
    You're definitely in the lead so far - the builder was supposed to drop in on Tuesday, then yesterday, now it's today.
    Mine is in better condition than yours was and my kids have taken ownership of the garden so I'm not sure if I want them to go digging it up now. We'll have to wait and see.....


    If you are happy with the current condition, maybe its worth it just leaving it as it is. Otherwise you will be 2 to 3 weeks not being able to use the garden like me.


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    #23
    thejaguar
    Registered Users Posts: 730 ✭✭✭thejaguar


    albernazj93 wrote: »


    If you are happy with the current condition, maybe its worth it just leaving it as it is. Otherwise you will be 2 to 3 weeks not being able to use the garden like me.

    Yeh - the builder came by last week. We agreed to leave it to September when the kids are back in school and losing the back garden for a couple of weeks won't be such a pain.


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    #24
    Johnny86
    Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭Johnny86


    I'm in a relatively similar situation to the OP. Moved into a new build house in Winter and now looking at a uneven, stoney garden with what seems like subsoil or clay, fairly compacted - it has been rock hard with cracks lately until the recent rain. Now I can get a shovel into it at least. So there is patches of grass and weeds on it.

    My plan is to kill the weeds (prob try and use a homemade vinegar based weedkiller).
    Cut grass short (do i need to kill off the existing grass? like cover it with plastic for a while or apply the weedkiller all over?)
    Hire a rotavator (I assume the ground needs to be a little soft for this to work - also a bit worried about the all the rocks/stones).
    Rake it and remove the stones
    Add some topsoil/or some organic enricher
    Add grass seed (any particular type recommended?
    Compact (was prob just going to do by walking on it)
    Then water and pray?

    Is this the right process? Pretty clueless...


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