Toyota C-HR EV/IZOA

peposhi · 19-04-2019 10:01am #1

Yep... it is happening

Finally Toyota came to their senses and a fully electric Toyota is coming up.
First is the Chinese market where it would be sold as Toyota IZOA and then the rest of the world...
That is more or less game over for the ICE and from here on it would be only a decline... rapid one i’d say...

peposhi · 19-04-2019 10:04am

https://youtu.be/koo5I8lrrM8

Link to the video...

2020 in China.
20... in Ireland?

Mickeroo · 19-04-2019 10:16am

That C-HR BEV looks lovely.

peposhi · 19-04-2019 6:06pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

That C-HR BEV looks lovely.

It does. It is a fantastic car. Have 2 friends who’s gotten it and driven it myself... apart from the noisy engine everything else is just perfect

TCP/IP · 19-04-2019 6:39pm

peposhi wrote: »

Yep... it is happening

Finally Toyota came to their senses and a fully electric Toyota is coming up.
First is the Chinese market where it would be sold as Toyota IZOA and then the rest of the world...
That is more or less game over for the ICE and from here on it would be only a decline... rapid one i’d say...

Why would it be game over still only suitable for a small minority of the world. Until Battery can achieve the same range as a tank of diesel and recharge as quickly as filling up a tank it’s certainly not game over.

peposhi · 19-04-2019 7:03pm

TCP/IP wrote: »

Why would it be game over still only suitable for a small minority of the world. Until Battery can achieve the same range as a tank of diesel and recharge as quickly as filling up a tank it’s certainly not game over.

Just the fact that Toyota bent backwards to produce EV(after VW have already done so) means the ice has cracked even at the bottom of the iceberg. It would be years until full conversion, lots will change meanwhile, but it would be much quicker process as there will be more and more money spent on research and technology advancement to achieve better margins and profit by the big guys...

TCP/IP · 19-04-2019 7:13pm

peposhi wrote: »

Just the fact that Toyota bent backwards to produce EV(after VW have already done so) means the ice has cracked even at the bottom of the iceberg. It would be years until full conversion, lots will change meanwhile, but it would be much quicker process as there will be more and more money spent on research and technology advancement to achieve better margins and profit by the big guys...

But still fundamentally until the main issues of battery technology and in turn, physics are addressed its a moot point. Only reason car companies are developing electric cars is to address carbon credits from governments. People fundamentally don't care if their care is electric or ICE as long as it suits their needs. Of course, there will always be early adopters that like the technology aspect but normal people simply don't care.

peposhi · 19-04-2019 7:13pm

TCP/IP wrote: »

Why would it be game over still only suitable for a small minority of the world. Until Battery can achieve the same range as a tank of diesel and recharge as quickly as filling up a tank it’s certainly not game over.

Double post...

TCP/IP · 19-04-2019 7:29pm

peposhi wrote: »

Double post...

Great reply do the conversation anything of value to add?

peposhi · 19-04-2019 7:32pm

TCP/IP wrote: »

But still fundamentally until the main issues of battery technology and in turn, physics are addressed its a moot point. Only reason car companies are developing electric cars is to address carbon credits from governments. People fundamentally don't care if their care is electric or ICE as long as it suits their needs. Of course, there will always be early adopters that like the technology aspect but normal people simply don't care.

I do agree with you that a lot will have to happen to achieve a mass adoption and even then we will still see ICE cars going around (same as the real horse power still being used in many ways/places).
The idea is that people nowadays are changing their habits a lot quicker than 20/30years ago and we live in, literally, a cloud of information, that sooner or later will reach your. So the more people realise the financial benefits of having an EV, the more will leave the ICE wagon.
I have no research to back this up, but 90% of the EV drivers I know or heard of would never go back to an ICE and next car will be just a longer range EV. That means zero income for non-EV producers, therefore more money spend on developing the EV range and abilities.
If Toyota has given up the battle (and surely realising the hydrogen car front is lost) then nothing can stop now the avalanche of technology development therefore wider choice available therefore EV becoming mainstream...

peposhi · 19-04-2019 7:34pm

TCP/IP wrote: »

Great reply do the conversation anything of value to add?

?!?

I meant that I posted a reply twice and deleted it. Don’t see any issue here

TCP/IP · 19-04-2019 7:49pm

peposhi wrote: »

I do agree with you that a lot will have to happen to achieve a mass adoption and even then we will still see ICE cars going around (same as the real horse power still being used in many ways/places).
The idea is that people nowadays are changing their habits a lot quicker than 20/30years ago and we live in, literally, a cloud of information, that sooner or later will reach your. So the more people realise the financial benefits of having an EV, the more will leave the ICE wagon.
I have no research to back this up, but 90% of the EV drivers I know or heard of would never go back to an ICE and next car will be just a longer range EV. That means zero income for non-EV producers, therefore more money spend on developing the EV range and abilities.
If Toyota has given up the battle (and surely realising the hydrogen car front is lost) then nothing can stop now the avalanche of technology development therefore wider choice available therefore EV becoming mainstream...

Ask the same question to 90% of ICE owners and they would say their next car would be ICE again. But I have no data to back that up. See how silly your statement was. I totally agree the Hydrogen car is dead for now alright. Toyota has not given up the battle it’s just they need to offer electric cars like all other manufacturers. ICE is far from dead you and I will be long dead and manufactures will still offer ICE.

slave1 · 19-04-2019 7:55pm

Nice to see Toyota back making EVs

unkel · 19-04-2019 9:09pm

Am I the only one skeptical at this? The video in the OP seems to be some sort of ad aimed at the Chinese market. It is 4 days old and only has a few hundred views. We haven't heard any official announcement. I'm sorry, but I can't accept that vid as reliable news that Toyota will soon produce a new BEV.

peposhi · 20-04-2019 1:05am

TCP/IP wrote: »

Ask the same question to 90% of ICE owners and they would say their next car would be ICE again. But I have no data to back that up. See how silly your statement was. I totally agree the Hydrogen car is dead for now alright. Toyota has not given up the battle it’s just they need to offer electric cars like all other manufacturers. ICE is far from dead you and I will be long dead and manufactures will still offer ICE.

Hope you are not towards the end of your 60s

slave1 · 20-04-2019 9:02am

TCP/IP wrote: »

Toyota has not given up the battle it’s just they need to offer electric cars like all other manufacturers. ICE is far from dead you and I will be long dead and manufactures will still offer ICE.

Toyota have made and sold electric cars, just not in great quantity and almost as a secret

Shefwedfan · 20-04-2019 9:08am

Toyota say they don’t make electric because the supply of batteries is limited and the infrastructure is not in place

Hard to say either of them is untrue

Pkiernan · 20-04-2019 9:12am

peposhi wrote: »

It does. It is a fantastic car. Have 2 friends who’s gotten it and driven it myself... apart from the noisy engine everything else is just perfect

Except it's tiny

Shefwedfan · 20-04-2019 9:20am

Pkiernan wrote: »

Except it's tiny

Depends what you call tiny

My sister in law has hybrid CHR, I got a 3 kids in back(6,4,2) yesterday into it and Out N About double buggy into boot....had to take the cover off boot but it went in, two adults in front

slave1 · 20-04-2019 10:43am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Toyota say they don’t make electric because the supply of batteries is limited and the infrastructure is not in place

Hard to say either of them is untrue

Toyota are up there as a major player in the car industry, this is a self fulfilling belief and very short sighted IMHO, cart/horse

Shefwedfan · 20-04-2019 10:49am

slave1 wrote: »

Toyota are up there as a major player in the car industry, this is a self fulfilling belief and very short sighted IMHO, cart/horse

Is it short sighted? New hybrid engine out, more efficient

So if I buy then in 3 years time when I swap they have full electric out when the market is ready to move....

irishgrover · 23-04-2019 1:39pm

TCP/IP wrote: »

Why would it be game over still only suitable for a small minority of the world. Until Battery can achieve the same range as a tank of diesel and recharge as quickly as filling up a tank it’s certainly not game over.

I don't agree with that statement. I understand the sentiment but the reality is different. How many times in your life do you have to start a journey with a full tank of diesel/petrol and then fill it up again prior to finishing your journey? Becuase that is the use case that you are stating is the baseline for acceptance.
The reality is that the vast majority of EV ownsers start their day with a full tank due to home charging.
When EV's can suit 95%+ of use cases then I think the deault will be to buy an EV. In addition there will need to be a charging structure somewhat better then there is now. For example mltiple charges in each location where there is currently one etc. I would suggest that ranges of 400-600km will fit this bracket. Nobody in their right mind wants to drive 500km and not stop for a 20 minute break, so I don't think that recharging needs to be as fast as current fuel delivery methods.
I agree with your sentiment, just somewhat disagree with the technical detail of it.

tretorn · 23-04-2019 1:49pm

A lot of people actually like driving as opposed to sitting in the equivalent of a dodgem, ie one pedal and just sit there. Imagine doing a 200 km journey, you might nod off at Cashel.

Also the maximum speed in the EV is 90 km per hour, you cant take advantage of motorways at that speed.

The Government will find ways of recouping income lost if EVs become the default option so in the long run the price differential will be less.

23-04-2019 1:54pm

tretorn wrote: »

............

Also the maximum speed in the EV is 90 km per hour............

Max speed in what EV is 90kph?

tretorn · 23-04-2019 2:03pm

Max speed in most Evs is 90 km.

I presume if you go over this you run the battery down quicker.

Its probably wise to buy a fold up bike to put in the boot if you go outside the bigger cities in EV cars, imagine being stuck somewhere with no charging point and no mobile coverage on your phone to ring someone. Your phone then runs out of power too, and this is the future promised to us.

23-04-2019 2:13pm

tretorn wrote: »

Max speed in most Evs is 90 km.

I presume if you go over this you run the battery down quicker............

I don't have an EV but work under 30kms from home most days and don't hit over 100kph

slave1 · 23-04-2019 2:19pm

tretorn wrote: »

Max speed in most Evs is 90 km.
.

Not in any EV I've ever driven

Oregano_State · 23-04-2019 2:35pm

tretorn wrote: »

Max speed in most Evs is 90 km.

I presume if you go over this you run the battery down quicker.

Its probably wise to buy a fold up bike to put in the boot if you go outside the bigger cities in EV cars, imagine being stuck somewhere with no charging point and no mobile coverage on your phone to ring someone. Your phone then runs out of power too, and this is the future promised to us.

All of the current generation of EVs can handle 90 km/hr and even 120 km/hr with not too much fuss.

EVs do tend to have a lower top speed than ICE vehicles as most designs do not use a gear-box, and at speeds over say 130 km/hr you've hit the max on the motor's power curve, while drag and drive-train efficiency losses start to really pile up.

There is definitely a lot of work to do to improve the charging network, but regarding the cars themselves, the developments are happening at a rapid pace. The generation of cars currently being launched by Porsche have the ability to charge much faster than what's currently on the market, something like 100km of range in 10 minutes. Obviously this tech will take a few years to make its way down to the affordable end of the market, but by 2023 we should see it available in the likes of Skoda.

23-04-2019 3:03pm

Oregano_State wrote: »

The generation of cars currently being launched by Porsche have the ability to charge much faster than what's currently on the market, something like 100km of range in 10 minutes.

If I'm not mistaken, which admittedly is quite often, I think it's actually 100 km of range in 5 minutes and 18 minutes for 300 km. An efficient BEV like IONIQ charging at 70 kW can today get approx. 100 km of range in 10 minutes when the conditions are right. And even a LEAF 30/40 charging at nominal 50 kW can add 100 kilometers of range in 20 minutes.

Shefwedfan · 23-04-2019 9:14pm

tretorn wrote: »

A lot of people actually like driving as opposed to sitting in the equivalent of a dodgem, ie one pedal and just sit there. Imagine doing a 200 km journey, you might nod off at Cashel.

Also the maximum speed in the EV is 90 km per hour, you cant take advantage of motorways at that speed.

The Government will find ways of recouping income lost if EVs become the default option so in the long run the price differential will be less.

Quick tip, if you haven’t a clue what your talking about don’t post on the forum with electric car drivers, they might, just might, know a little bit more

Stick to the General Motors forum, plenty of other posters have the same level of knowledge on electric cars and you will be accepted

Mike9832 · 24-04-2019 12:29am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Quick tip, if you haven’t a clue what your talking about don’t post on the forum with electric car drivers, they might, just might, know a little bit more

Stick to the General Motors forum, plenty of other posters have the same level of knowledge on electric cars and you will be accepted

Ehh, leave it for the mods

irishgrover · 24-04-2019 12:40am

tretorn wrote: »

Max speed in most Evs is 90 km.

I presume if you go over this you run the battery down quicker.

Its probably wise to buy a fold up bike to put in the boot if you go outside the bigger cities in EV cars, imagine being stuck somewhere with no charging point and no mobile coverage on your phone to ring someone. Your phone then runs out of power too, and this is the future promised to us.

Genuine question: are you taking the piss? Or are you really that misinformed??

Oregano_State · 24-04-2019 10:14am

samih wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken, which admittedly is quite often, I think it's actually 100 km of range in 5 minutes and 18 minutes for 300 km. An efficient BEV like IONIQ charging at 70 kW can today get approx. 100 km of range in 10 minutes when the conditions are right. And even a LEAF 30/40 charging at nominal 50 kW can add 100 kilometers of range in 20 minutes.

You're right. I guess the main point is that the tech is already there on the car side, the big issues holding back mass adoption are the charging network, grid capacity, and price.

I really hope we see some significant investment at a national level in these areas soon.

Mike9832 · 24-04-2019 10:29am

irishgrover wrote: »

Genuine question: are you taking the piss? Or are you really that misinformed??

In fairness he has a point re high speed

You have to drive the most popular EV the Leaf at 90 if you want to do 200km, only Teslas are designed for motorway driving

Do 140 and the new 30k Leaf wouldn't even go for an hour with its crazy energy consumption

The 100k Audi e-Tron and Jag are no better

They wouldnt do 200km at 140 either, crazy as it seems

100k doesn't buy much these days

unkel · 24-04-2019 11:53am

Mike9832 wrote: »

You have to drive the most popular EV the Leaf at 90 if you want to do 200km, only Teslas are designed for motorway driving

Leaf 40kWh is not aerodynamic and not efficient. Ioniq with its tiny 28kWh battery can do about 180km at 120km/h real speed in summer

The slowest EV sold here in the last 10 years can still do 125km/h real speed

So yeah, the poster claiming EVs can only do 90km/h is talking nonsense.

KCross · 24-04-2019 12:03pm

I think he (or the guy on the bar stool telling him!) mixed up mph and kmh

irishgrover · 24-04-2019 12:07pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

In fairness he has a point re high speed

You have to drive the most popular EV the Leaf at 90 if you want to do 200km, only Teslas are designed for motorway driving

Do 140 and the new 30k Leaf wouldn't even go for an hour with its crazy energy consumption

The 100k Audi e-Tron and Jag are no better

They wouldnt do 200km at 140 either, crazy as it seems

100k doesn't buy much these days

no, he has no point at all, he is totally uninformed.
I'm driving an EV with a 28kWh battery. I live in sticks. 90% of my driving is one a motorway at 130kmph indicated. I use fast chargers multiple times per week. I've driven 50,000 km in the last 12 months without every waiting more than ~20 minutes for a charge. 80% of the time I don't have to wait.
Dependent on where you live, and where you drive to, you are far better off with an EV in the country side as opposed to Dublin...

Mike9832 · 24-04-2019 12:34pm

irishgrover wrote: »

no, he has no point at all, he is totally uninformed.
I'm driving an EV with a 28kWh battery. I live in sticks. 90% of my driving is one a motorway at 130kmph indicated. I use fast chargers multiple times per week. I've driven 50,000 km in the last 12 months without every waiting more than ~20 minutes for a charge. 80% of the time I don't have to wait.
Dependent on where you live, and where you drive to, you are far better off with an EV in the country side as opposed to Dublin...

Fair play, works for you

Your not getting very far at 130 in winter, which is 8 months of the year here

You either slow down or chance your luck at the chargers or buy something for 40k+

He is misinformed on top speed alright, not that it's any use

Do 160 in a Leaf etc and see how far you get

unkel · 24-04-2019 1:33pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Your not getting very far at 130 in winter, which is 8 months of the year here

How did you work that out?

It's April, I've got a sun tan and my car is back to the 240km range it had during the 8 months of summer we had last year :pac:

irishgrover · 24-04-2019 3:30pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Fair play, works for you

Your not getting very far at 130 in winter, which is 8 months of the year here

You either slow down or chance your luck at the chargers or buy something for 40k+

He is misinformed on top speed alright, not that it's any use

Do 160 in a Leaf etc and see how far you get

Your not getting very far at 130 in winter - I'll get 155 - 165 in winter, dependent on temp and wind. However in reality it's impossibly to maintain such consistantly high spead in any car
You either slow down or chance your luck at the chargers or buy something for 40k+ I drive fast and I fast charge - there are fast chargers every 30 -60km for 98% of my journies. I don't own a leaf - I bought a car to suite my needs and budget
He is misinformed on top speed alright, not that it's any use Yes, he is completely misinformed. I don't know what the top speed is in my car but I know its significantly over the legal motorway speed limit

Shefwedfan · 24-04-2019 5:50pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Fair play, works for you

Your not getting very far at 130 in winter, which is 8 months of the year here

You either slow down or chance your luck at the chargers or buy something for 40k+

He is misinformed on top speed alright, not that it's any use

Do 160 in a Leaf etc and see how far you get

Do 160 in a Skoda and see how far it gets you.....

You would swear that high speed = poor efficiency was only an issue with electric cars, any car in the World you drive fast and the efficiency drops dramtically.

All a stupid conversation in the first place as the majority of roads in Ireland have a limit of 80 or 100 with a few at 120km....If I got up to 80kmph most days in my car around Dublin I would be doing great.....

Mike9832 · 24-04-2019 6:04pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Do 160 in a Skoda and see how far it gets you.....

You would swear that high speed = poor efficiency was only an issue with electric cars, any car in the World you drive fast and the efficiency drops dramtically.

All a stupid conversation in the first place as the majority of roads in Ireland have a limit of 80 or 100 with a few at 120km....If I got up to 80kmph most days in my car around Dublin I would be doing great.....

Batteries are crap for high speed as they can't store enough energy

250Wh/kg vs 4000Wh/kg for diesel ( taking into account energy lost )

Skoda takes about 13-14 litres/100km at 160

A 60l tank diesel will do 400km at that speed

Your average EV like a 40kWh Leaf will do about 80-100km at 160 if your lucky

Shefwedfan · 24-04-2019 6:06pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Batteries are crap for high speed as they can't store enough energy

250Wh/kg vs 4000Wh/kg for diesel ( taking into account energy lost )

Skoda takes about 13-14 litres/100km at 160

A 60l tank diesel will do 400km at that speed

Your average EV like a 40kWh Leaf will do about 80-100km at 160 if your lucky

So?

It is illegal to drive at 160kmph and only a idiot would drive at those speeds.....

Doesn't matter how fast you drive in a Skoda....it still is a Skoda:p:p:p

irishgrover · 24-04-2019 6:17pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Batteries are crap for high speed as they can't store enough energy

250Wh/kg vs 4000Wh/kg for diesel ( taking into account energy lost )

Skoda takes about 13-14 litres/100km at 160

A 60l tank diesel will do 400km at that speed

Your average EV like a 40kWh Leaf will do about 80-100km at 160 if your lucky

AH com'on Mike - this line of discussion started with "EV max speed is 90kph" which was debunked as total bollix, then it went to you'll be stuck in the country with no chargers and no mobile phone coverage, which was debunked, then it went to "you won't get very far at 130" which was debunked, and now its "you won't drive a leaf nearly as far as a skoda when traveling at 160kmph"........... I'm not going to debunk that, its totally true, but seriously what the **** has that got to do with the price of cabbage?

Mike9832 · 24-04-2019 6:42pm

irishgrover wrote: »

AH com'on Mike - this line of discussion started with "EV max speed is 90kph" which was debunked as total bollix, then it went to you'll be stuck in the country with no chargers and no mobile phone coverage, which was debunked, then it went to "you won't get very far at 130" which was debunked, and now its "you won't drive a leaf nearly as far as a skoda when traveling at 160kmph"........... I'm not going to debunk that, its totally true, but seriously what the **** has that got to do with the price of cabbage?

True

Not much of an issue here, but if your in Germany and you can afford to drive at 160 all day you won't want an EV anytime soon

Need a 200kW battery to match Skoda range on the autobahn

Shefwedfan · 24-04-2019 7:10pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

True

Not much of an issue here, but if your in Germany and you can afford to drive at 160 all day you won't want an EV anytime soon

Need a 200kW battery to match Skoda range on the autobahn

But we don't live in Germany....

I am sure if I google the entire countries in the World I will find some laws that will suit electric cars and some that won't....all pointless and irrelevant.....

Also how many Germans are actually driving around at 160km all day?

biko · 24-04-2019 9:32pm

Back on topic please - Toyota C-HR EV/IZOA

Toyota C-HR EV/IZOA

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