No Plastic campaign

Nikki Sixx · 13-04-2019 9:26am #1

<Snip>

Bad language deleted.

my3cents · 13-04-2019 9:32am

Weren't we one of the first countries to ban free plastic carrier bags?

Nikki Sixx · 13-04-2019 9:42am

my3cents wrote: »

Weren't we one of the first countries to ban free plastic carrier bags?

So that the government could make some money out of it.

punisher5112 · 13-04-2019 9:44am

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

So that the government could make some money out of it.

Look up at any tree and you will see there aren't any plastic bags flapping in the wind....

This use to be the norm.

NIMAN · 13-04-2019 9:45am

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

So that the government could make some money out of it.

Why can't the Gov get any credit in this country?

We have been very progressive in some things, such as the plastic bag tax, the smoking ban and gay marriage.

They didn't put €0.05 on a plastic bag to make money. They did it to stop people getting a new one willy nilly every time they went shopping. It was way ahead of its time, there wasn't a debate about plastic the way there is now.

You had the choice to pay the tax or not, I'm sure it didn't raise much money from it.

zapitastas · 13-04-2019 9:46am

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

So that the government could make some money out of it.

It had a dramatic effect on the amount of plastic bags hanging in bushes. The price of plastic bags needs to increase again and make them prohibitive.

Added to that plastic use has been increasing dramatically so a movement against it's use can only be welcomed ... Unless you are some sort of a bitter old crank

13-04-2019 9:46am

Some people have consideration for the environment OP, and most don't look for applause. Your frustration is misguided.

passecompose · 13-04-2019 9:53am

This isn't a bandwagon we're 'hopping on'
It's the realization that we're destroying our planet in many ways including the use of single use plastics. Believe it or not, people do care.
Nobody is looking for a pat on the back for reducing the use of single use plastics.
Social media is a great platform for talking about it so that's one reason it's become more apparent.
What does get me though is companies coming up with ideas of replacing straws with paper ones. While this is a great step in the right direction, much more needs to be done from a government level. Relying on individuals alone to do the right thing doesn't work unless there are incentives to reduce our carbon footprint

Tails142 · 13-04-2019 9:55am

Plastic packaging and single use plastic has taken off in a way that's totally unsustainable over the last 15 to 20 years, people are coming to realise this now. People are also realising that the "recycling" industry isn't exactly what people imagine either

pjohnson · 13-04-2019 9:57am

Tbh I wouldnt mind if the plastic bag levy increased to €5 per bag. I havent bought a bag in years as I just reuse the ones I did buy for years. Most people I know have their own bags when they go shopping. Does anyone still buy bags? Even heading to buy bread and milk I pick up a bag as I leave the house.

Tell me how · 13-04-2019 10:05am

I think the plastic bag levy was a piece of legislation we should be very proud of as a country.

More needs to happen in terms of our use of single use plastics. It is a sad thing that anytime anything is done which is for the long term betterment of society, it is viewed with cynicism by many and such voices are often loudest.

Fruit sitting in plastic cases, plastic drinks bottles, straws (where there is some action) and take-away coffee cups should also see similar levies in my view. In an ideal world, the money raised from such a levy would go towards environmentally focused initiatives.

There are many things which we could all do in order to try to limit our impact on the environment in terms of what we buy and use but it seems that the sad reality is that it needs legislation before actual meaningful change is seen (see plastic bag levy and smoking ban as examples in this respect).

The "No Plastic" view isn't a bandwagon, it's a reality that people are awakening to but sadly, not fast enough.

punisher5112 · 13-04-2019 10:12am

If people really feel they want change they can collect all the soft plastic that has the number 4 inside the recycling symbol as council bring centres will take this.

Green bins won't and will only take hard plastic.

I heard Lidl or Aldi are starting it that you can bring your plastic back to them.

my3cents · 13-04-2019 10:13am

I've mentioned this before and that is that some of the retailers that make the biggest deal about recycling are the worst at supplying goods in plastic that is not recyclable. LIDL claim to recycle 100% of the waste in their stores yet I suspect 99% of all the plastic that goes out of their shops with their customers is not recyclable.

Its obviously cheaper for LIDL to have its stock packed in plastic that can't be recycled.

John_Rambo · 13-04-2019 10:17am

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

Did anybody give a fcuk about the overuse of plastic before it became such a trend to be anti-plastic? It’s really only in the last few years that Irish people have hopped on the bandwagon. To me it all feels like attention seeking and virtue signaling. Is there any person who quietly or secretly recycles, who doesn’t want a pat on the back. I’m getting tired of all the fake outrage about plastic. If you are a genuine eco warrior don’t take a plane or drive a car.

Yes, people have been trying to reduce single use plastics for decades. Long before you saw it on facebook. Take your nose out of the phone, and have a look around, check out the sea, trees, roadside verges etc...

I see on other posts you're sneering and making snide comments at posters that don't like single use plastics. Activists and people trying to reduce plastic usage are doing you no harm whatsoever.

Tell me how · 13-04-2019 10:20am

my3cents wrote: »

I've mentioned this before and that is that some of the retailers that make the biggest deal about recycling are the worst at supplying goods in plastic that is not recyclable. LIDL claim to recycle 100% of the waste in their stores yet I suspect 99% of all the plastic that goes out of their shops with their customers is not recyclable.

Its obviously cheaper for LIDL to have its stock packed in plastic that can't be recycled.

There is so much hypocrisy at play in today's world it can be very depressing.

Sky cycling team spent last year advocating for reduced plastic use.

Next year, they will have a new sponsor, Ineos, one of the worlds largest petrochemical companies. A massive market segment of the petrochemical industry is the manufacture of plastics.

Wanderer78 · 13-04-2019 10:23am

Tell me how wrote:

Next year, they will have a new sponsor, Ineos, one of the worlds largest petrochemical companies. A massive market segment of the petrochemical industry is the manufacture of plastics.

Unfortunately large corporations can be incredibly ignorant in their operations, we must completely change our economic models, before we completely wreck our plant. We should be very proud of our approaches to single use plastics, am I right in saying they will be banned at eu level soon?

zapitastas · 13-04-2019 10:26am

Tell me how wrote: »

I think the plastic bag levy was a piece of legislation we should be very proud of as a country.

More needs to happen in terms of our use of single use plastics. It is a sad thing that anytime anything is done which is for the long term betterment of society, it is viewed with cynicism by many and such voices are often loudest.

Fruit sitting in plastic cases, plastic drinks bottles, straws (where there is some action) and take-away coffee cups should also see similar levies in my view. In an ideal world, the money raised from such a levy would go towards environmentally focused initiatives.

There are many things which we could all do in order to try to limit our impact on the environment in terms of what we buy and use but it seems that the sad reality is that it needs legislation before actual meaningful change is seen (see plastic bag levy and smoking ban as examples in this respect).

The "No Plastic" view isn't a bandwagon, it's a reality that people are awakening to but sadly, not fast enough.

The toy industry really needs to be tackled. Any birthday or Christmas produces a horrific amount of plastic. Seems completely over the top.

John_Rambo · 13-04-2019 1:50pm

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

<deleted post>

But it does end up in the sea. Then it ends up in fish, then it ends up in humans and the animals we eat.

No, you either don't understand or you're being obtuse here. Reduction in the use of one off plastics will reduce the amount of plastic being dumped.

Look. you're the one that started this thread with questions and you're getting answers. People are making an effort to explain things in simple terms so you can understand. Did you just start the thread to troll people or are you genuinely interested?

I'm part of a nationwide beach clean up group. PM me if you want to join up with one of the clean ups and I can school you in person. You'll see for your self what's being washed up and how old some of the plastics are.

Del.Monte · 13-04-2019 2:02pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

But it does end up in the sea. Then it ends up in fish, then it ends up in humans and the animals we eat.

No, you either don't understand or you're being obtuse here. Reduction in the use of one off plastics will reduce the amount of plastic being dumped.

Look. you're the one that started this thread with questions and you're getting answers. People are making an effort to explain things in simple terms so you can understand. Did you just start the thread to troll people or are you genuinely interested?

I'm part of a nationwide beach clean up group. PM me if you want to join up with one of the clean ups and I can school you in person. You'll see for your self what's being washed up and how old some of the plastics are.

Good luck with that.

Teepinaw · 13-04-2019 2:16pm

zapitastas wrote: »

The toy industry really needs to be tackled. Any birthday or Christmas produces a horrific amount of plastic. Seems completely over the top.

And clothing.

A lot of our clothing is made from plastic and microfibres leave the washing machine and end up in fish.

It's all such a monumental problem.

zapitastas · 13-04-2019 2:19pm

Teepinaw wrote: »

And clothing.

A lot of our clothing is made from plastic and microfibres leave the washing machine and end up in fish.

It's all such a monumental problem.

I think it was something like 750,000 microplastic fibres are released with your average wash cycle. What a mess

is_that_so · 13-04-2019 2:20pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2019/0410/1041757-earths-missing-plastic/

Del.Monte · 15-04-2019 1:37pm

Meanwhile in some good news announced by Guinness/Diageo.

Drinks giant Diageo has announced that it is removing plastic from multipacks of its Irish stout brand Guinness.

Plastic ring carriers and shrink wrap will be also removed from packs of Harp, Rockshore and Smithwick's beers, as part of Diageo's £16m initiative.

The change will be phased in with multi-can packs sold in "100% recyclable and biodegradable cardboard" in Ireland from August this year.

The new packaging will then be used in the UK and globally next year.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47926399

15-04-2019 1:54pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Meanwhile in some good news announced by Guinness/Diageo.

Drinks giant Diageo has announced that it is removing plastic from multipacks of its Irish stout brand Guinness.

Plastic ring carriers and shrink wrap will be also removed from packs of Harp, Rockshore and Smithwick's beers, as part of Diageo's £16m initiative.

The change will be phased in with multi-can packs sold in "100% recyclable and biodegradable cardboard" in Ireland from August this year.

The new packaging will then be used in the UK and globally next year.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47926399

A friend *ahem* worked there a few years back when they were all delighted to announce the shrink wrap packaging.
Asked "what about environmental impact?", response was "it's cheaper and we don't expect a public fight back"

Companies care about how much it will save, or how much free publicity/leverage an action generates.
This is why it needs to be government driven. Should public focus shift I could guarantee that companies will swap back to waste, should it be cheaper.

That *cough* friend *cough* saw them tamper with recipes, to save money. If product integrity is up for grabs, what do you think they really care about environment?

Lisha · 15-04-2019 2:01pm

I recently read that, more or less, every single piece of plastic ever made still exists. Plastic objects may perish and break, rendering them useless, (then replaced by more plastic) but they will remain in landfill or somewhere. Very few are burned they all still exists. I’m trying to reduce my plastic use but it’s hard. I firmly believe we must sll start. The oceans are full of plastic waste. It’s very unsettling when you look at the irreversible damage we have done and are continuing to do. I think it’s very scary.

NIMAN · 15-04-2019 2:03pm

Why should Diageo get praise for that?

Surely there is still unnecessary cardboard around 4 cans?
Why not just offer 4 cans for a certain price, and the customer can put 4 separate cans in their basket?

Its not like carrying 4 cans is rocket science.

We need to cut out all unnecessary packaging surely?

NIMAN · 15-04-2019 2:04pm

Lisha wrote: »

I recently read that, more or less, every single piece of plastic ever made still exists. Plastic objects may perish and break, rendering them useless, (then replaced by more plastic) but they will remain in landfill or somewhere. Very few are burned they all still exists. I’m trying to reduce my plastic use but it’s hard. I firmly believe we must sll start. The oceans are full of plastic waste. It’s very unsettling when you look at the irreversible damage we have done and are continuing to do. I think it’s very scary.

True apparently.

And heard another stat recently that of all the plastic that has been made in the world ever, half of it has been made since mid-1980s.

Shows you how much disposable crap we made in the last few decades.

Good jib! · 15-04-2019 2:08pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Why should Diageo get praise for that?

Surely there is still unnecessary cardboard around 4 cans?
Why not just offer 4 cans for a certain price, and the customer can put 4 separate cans in their basket?

Its not like carrying 4 cans is rocket science.

We need to cut out all unnecessary packaging surely?

It's still progress though, and hopefully the next environmental campaign will target the not hugely useful cardboard on a lot of products.

15-04-2019 2:09pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Why should Diageo get praise for that?

Surely there is still unnecessary cardboard around 4 cans?
Why not just offer 4 cans for a certain price, and the customer can put 4 separate cans in their basket?

Its not like carrying 4 cans is rocket science.

We need to cut out all unnecessary packaging surely?

Because different SKUs would have different prices attached to them. A tray of 24 would be internally priced at X per can while a 4-6 pack would be valued at Y per can etc.

They would have to sell each shop the cans, at the same price, so not allowing for pack orders at differing prices (and the facing opportunities that brings)
It can be done sure but would be massive administrative and logistical issue

15-04-2019 2:13pm

NIMAN wrote: »

True apparently.

And heard another stat recently that of all the plastic that has been made in the world ever, half of it has been made since mid-1980s.

Shows you how much disposable crap we made in the last few decades.

Transformer toys were die-cast metal in the 1980s, now they are the most easily broken plastic crap ever. Made to be broken/replaced

Tae laidir · 15-04-2019 2:15pm

Nikki Sixx wrote:

<deleted post>

You're correct, people don't throw plastic in the sea.
It blows in from the land.

lawred2 · 15-04-2019 2:17pm

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

<Deleted post>

I recycle because it's cheaper than putting that stuff in my black bin

Strange thing to be getting upset about

Charles Ingles · 15-04-2019 2:20pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Why should Diageo get praise for that?

Surely there is still unnecessary cardboard around 4 cans?
Why not just offer 4 cans for a certain price, and the customer can put 4 separate cans in their basket?

Its not like carrying 4 cans is rocket science.

We need to cut out all unnecessary packaging surely?

Maybe they could make one large can that holds the volume of four separate cans save a lot on packaging easy to carry as well

NIMAN · 15-04-2019 2:24pm

Look, bottom line is that there are loads of ways we could make significant savings in the amount of waste we produce, if the political will is there.

Also needs buy-in from the public too.

I take a lot of these protests and campaigns with a pinch of salt, cos the same people out marching now won't walk the length of themselves, love foreign travel, need to change their phone every year or 18 months, have 3 or 4 TVs at home, buy disposable nappies etc etc. It does at times feel like its a hot topic because they saw it on Facebook or Twitter.

Many moons ago I remember saying to friends that if climate change was so dangerous, then why don't Governments simply outlaw any standard car (for public use) with an engine above 1600cc or whatever. Of course there will always be exceptions to rules, but do we need 4, 5 and 6 litre cars that get 15mpg?

Look at the clothes industry. Must be a massive polluter. Yet we are conditioned to change our clothes with 'fashion' trends, just cos someone tells us our jeans or top is 'so last year'. Do all these campaigners wear their clothes until they fall apart? Not a chance.

What about mobile phones? We now have billions of these in the world, many people want a new one annually? Even though there is no great upgrade in its ability. Again, many of the campaigners will be like this.

We can either want proper change or just the bits that suit us cos we are finding whales with plastic in their stomachs. Its not a time to be selective. There are things that could be addressed now that will be the new movement in 5, 10, 15 years time. Why not do it all now?? Because there really isn't the will to do it, thats why. We have become too cosy in our pampered lives to want to give up luxuries.

There was a guy on the Frankie Boyle show last night, and he said basically that the capitalist model isn't sustainable in todays world. We talk and demand GDP growth. He was saying that 3% growth annually is something like a doubling of output every 20 or 25years. And the earth can't sustain that. IF anything we don't need growth at all, we just need to maintain ourselves as a species, and GDP isn't compatible with these campaigns.

The Satanist · 15-04-2019 2:30pm

I always wondered why glass bottles can't just be washed and reused. It seems like it is an enormous waste of energy taking the bottles from a bottle bank, breaking them down, melting then remaking then into exactly the same thing they were (or whatever the processes are).

Good jib! · 15-04-2019 2:37pm

@The Satanist

It is a waste. It's obviously better to just wash a bottle than break it and have to remake it. The disadvantage is setting up or maintaining the logistics network.

It's doable (works very well in Germany, for example), put for it to work in Ireland all the infrastructure would need to be put in place from scratch (a collection point wherever you bought the bottles, refunding the deposit, sending the different bottles back to the different bottling plants for washing and reuse...). And it all needs to be set up more or less at the same time, so it would take a huge push to put that in place.

Tell me how · 15-04-2019 2:58pm

NIMAN wrote: »

We can either want proper change or just the bits that suit us cos we are finding whales with plastic in their stomachs. Its not a time to be selective. There are things that could be addressed now that will be the new movement in 5, 10, 15 years time. Why not do it all now?? Because there really isn't the will to do it, thats why. We have become too cosy in our pampered lives to want to live up luxuries.

There was a guy on the Frankie Boyle show last night, and he said basically that the capitalist model isn't sustainable in todays world. We talk and demand GDP growth. He was saying that 3% growth annually is something like a doubling of output every 20 or 25years. And the earth can't sustain that. IF anything we don't need growth at all, we just need to maintain ourselves as a species, and GDP isn't compatible with these campaigns.

That is the reality of it. We cannot keep talking about growth and also suggesting we need to do something to slow down damage to the environment.

Something is going to have to give and it seems that it will take a radical fundamental shift in societal focus, and motivation if it the shift is going to move to protecting the environment.

15-04-2019 3:00pm

Good jib! wrote: »

@The Satanist

It is a waste. It's obviously better to just wash a bottle than break it and have to remake it. The disadvantage is setting up or maintaining the logistics network.

It's doable (works very well in Germany, for example), put for it to work in Ireland all the infrastructure would need to be put in place from scratch (a collection point wherever you bought the bottles, refunding the deposit, sending the different bottles back to the different bottling plants for washing and reuse...). And it all needs to be set up more or less at the same time, so it would take a huge push to put that in place.

Pubs do it for their own stock too

tricky D · 15-04-2019 3:02pm

The stuff is now getting inside us from our food, all the while causing cancer from within.

Thing is though that plastic is wonderful material partly for the reasons it is so damaging, and removing it from supply chains for perishables is often not viable, so we need to come up with a much better alternative. It needs to be replaced as reduction, reuse and recycling rates are awful.

NIMAN · 15-04-2019 3:07pm

The Satanist wrote: »

I always wondered why glass bottles can't just be washed and reused. It seems like it is an enormous waste of energy taking the bottles from a bottle bank, breaking them down, melting then remaking then into exactly the same thing they were (or whatever the processes are).

Did we not do it in the 70s/early 80s?

I remember taking glass bottles back to the local shop for a refund.

Tell me how · 15-04-2019 3:21pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Did we not do it in the 70s/early 80s?

I remember taking glass bottles back to the local shop for a refund.

That was probably before the explosion of plastic containers. The cost of such is still going to be cheaper that glass re-use or even more sustainable use, even the logistical impact of returning bottles need to be considered.

Maybe if some produce was offered for sale via some sort of pump outlet so that someone could bring their own containers and refill them in the shop. This is something which I think should be offered more for still water instead of evian/River rock bottles etc. If there was a station near the tea/coffee station where people could fill their refillable container, it would reduce the number of plastic bottles. This would be easier manage than maybe something for milk distribution which would need more intensive and frequent cleaning.

ZiabR · 15-04-2019 3:26pm

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

I’m getting tired of all the fake outrage about plastic.

Sorry, what? Fake outrage about plastic?

You are either one of two things, a troll looking to stir the hornets nest for a laugh or you are so uneducated that you cannot fathom the damage single use plastics do to the earth through its production, release into the environment and its inability to breakdown naturally.

I do recycle, and I do actively make an effort to keep my patch clean. Sadly I have missed the boat, but I am trying to make a change for my children and my childrens children. I shudder to think of the world they will grow up in.

Grow up.

my3cents · 15-04-2019 3:28pm

Tell me how wrote: »

That was probably before the explosion of plastic containers. The cost of such is still going to be cheaper that glass re-use or even more sustainable use, even the logistical impact of returning bottles need to be considered.

Maybe if some produce was offered for sale via some sort of pump outlet so that someone could bring their own containers and refill them in the shop. This is something which I think should be offered more for still water instead of evian/River rock bottles etc. If there was a station near the tea/coffee station where people could fill their refillable container, it would reduce the number of plastic bottles. This would be easier manage than maybe something for milk distribution which would need more intensive and frequent cleaning.

There was a company doing water refills about 10 years ago. You put you bottle under the tap put money in and it filled the bottle. Think it lasted 6 months in the local SV. Unless you have massive tankers refilling tanks in supermarkets then that sort of system is going to rely on filtered tap water which can't possibly be as good as plastic bottled spring water

Stoner · 15-04-2019 3:28pm

I think the toys in happy meals should be looked at too.

Lots little bits of plastic, kids play with them for a few days before moving on.

duffman3833 · 15-04-2019 3:49pm

Its all has to start with the manufacturers. If they can produce more eco friendly packaging, or even more eco friendly products than that will make a huge difference.
Half the stuff in supermarkets as an example don't need plastic packaging.
Fruit, pack of sponges, beer in packs etc
Start at the source and it will trickle down

Tell me how · 15-04-2019 3:57pm

duffman3833 wrote: »

Its all has to start with the manufacturers. If they can produce more eco friendly packaging, or even more eco friendly products than that will make a huge difference.
Half the stuff in supermarkets as an example don't need plastic packaging.
Fruit, pack of sponges, beer in packs etc
Start at the source and it will trickle down

Packaging serves at least 4 functions.

To keep food in set quantities
To make it easier to ship without getting damaged
To preserve it for as long as possible
To catch the eye and stand out on the shelf.

In theory all packaging could be the same colour and made of the same material but there would be uproar amongst manufacturers if they were forced to lose something which they see as part of their brand.

Rubberchikken · 15-04-2019 4:05pm

for years we bought easter eggs encased in plastic inner to protect egg.
it seems it was completely unnecessary.
it shows that things can be repackaged in an environmentally friendly way if thought was put into it.

8mv · 15-04-2019 4:19pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Did we not do it in the 70s/early 80s?

I remember taking glass bottles back to the local shop for a refund.

Yes - that was my first part-time job in Superquinns, separating all the returned soft drink bottles into boxes for C&C, Coca Cola, etc. Filthy job but necessary at the time and maybe more so now. I'd say the OP is trolling, but it is gratifying to see the positive responses here.

SozBbz · 15-04-2019 4:23pm

The whole plastics industry is so complex - its a byproduct of the oil/gas industry so its going to be a difficult to erradicate as there are so many lobby groups with vested interests.

I am making moves to be more sustainable - stopping buying fast fashion, choosing loose fruit and veg etc, avoiding packaging where I can. I used to drink a lot of sparking water in plastic bottles but since the start of this year I bought myself a sodastream so have been making my own sparkling water at home and the carbon dioxide canisters are refillable much like gas canisters for a BBQ/heater etc.

I do sometimes post on social media about my efforts (I am not a major social media user by the way) but primarily its because (a) humans are influenced by other humans and even if I get one of my friends to think about their choices, thats an improvement but also (b) brands need to realise that there is a market out there for sustainable products and that consumers want change. Once brands see that using sustainable materials and recyclable packaging makes good business sense, they will move to be in line with the consumer.

I do think that government needs to do more in terms of policy to charge supermarkets for the waste they create rather than put all the focus on the end consumer. Do bananas really need to be sold in a plastic bag? Those who create the waste should also pay towards the costs of dealing with it.

two wheels good · 15-04-2019 5:17pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'm part of a nationwide beach clean up group. PM me if you want to join up with one of the clean ups and I can school you in person. You'll see for your self what's being washed up and how old some of the plastics are.

I'll join a beach clean-up but can I be taught instead of schooled. I think I've mastered the basics of picking things up so I've a head start.
Point me at a website please. Cork/West Cork area

two wheels good · 15-04-2019 5:22pm

A point of information:
Repak is not a govt body. It's a business or trade body; which explains why they're always claiming that they already do enough and try to thwart any new initiative that might inflict cost on their members e.g a deposit return scheme for drinks containers (which is implemented very successfully in many other countries incl. approx a dozen US states)

No Plastic campaign

Comments