Canvassing against FF.

ilovesleep · 03-02-2011 11:22pm #1

I want to get out in my area and canvass against FF. Would this be ok I wonder. I dont have any connections to any political parties or independants.

If ok, FF has done so much damage. What kind of info could I provide on an a5 sized page. Seems as if I would need a library on my back to do so.

eoinoleary · 03-02-2011 11:31pm

woudnt know about the legal side of things but id imagine they couldnt do much to stop you isnt this ment to be a democracy after all???i think ''witholding their democratic right of a by election from the people of donegal'' would be a nice start on your leaflet...really pissed me off...and im from munster like

Chucky the tree · 03-02-2011 11:35pm

I think it's a waste of time really. People who are still willing to vote FF after everything they have done won't be convinced otherwise by some anti-FFer knocking on there door.

loldog · 03-02-2011 11:36pm

I'm sure you have every right to do that, nobody could stop you.

.

PeterIanStaker · 04-02-2011 12:16am

It's a democracy we live in, and people can put there opinion out there should they feel the need. It would be different alright from a householder's point of view to see just one person standing at the door without all the party paraphernelia.

yoshytoshy · 04-02-2011 12:24am

It's a bit pointless doing it ,if thats all labour and the leftovers alliance are doing.

Baralis1 · 04-02-2011 12:25am

There's no law against it and you are perfectly entitled to do it but you run the risk of looking like a crank by doing so.

Liam Byrne · 04-02-2011 12:41am

ilovesleep wrote: »

I want to get out in my area and canvass against FF. Would this be ok I wonder. I dont have any connections to any political parties or independants.

If ok, FF has done so much damage. What kind of info could I provide on an a5 sized page. Seems as if I would need a library on my back to do so.

Do what I'm going to do and wait until the FF canvassers arrive, and then follow them to every house so that you're arriving right behind them and their lies and spin don't get a chance to sink in.

That said, I do think it's a waste, as the only people who would entertain FF at this stage are the die-hards; you could well be preaching to the 86% converted.

Baralis1 · 04-02-2011 12:46am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Do what I'm going to do and wait until the FF canvassers arrive, and then follow them to every house so that you're arriving right behind them and their lies and spin don't get a chance to sink in.

That said, I do think it's a waste, as the only people who would entertain FF at this stage are the die-hards; you could well be preaching to the 86% converted.

So they don't have a democratic right to canvass without being harassed?

Jim236 · 04-02-2011 12:49am

Baralis1 wrote: »

So they don't have a democratic right to canvass without being harassed?

Rights? They should be locked up for economic treason. Nevermind rights.

Liam Byrne · 04-02-2011 12:54am

Baralis1 wrote: »

So they don't have a democratic right to canvass without being harassed?

Who's harassing them ? I'm simply approaching the householder 2 mins later to state my case.

If they're allowed to do that, then so am I.

Baralis1 · 04-02-2011 12:56am

Jim236 wrote: »

Rights? They should be locked up for economic treason. Nevermind rights.

I'm of the opinion that the economic crisis should be looked on logically while weighing up the facts. Its true the government made mistakes and deserve a term in opposition. Fourteen years is too long in power anyway. But economic treason, please, that sounds like a tabloid headline. I didn't hear Enda Kenny standing up in between 2002 and 2007 demanding the banks be more closely regulated or warning of a property boom.

Baralis1 · 04-02-2011 12:59am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Who's harassing them ? I'm simply approaching the householder 2 mins later to state my case.

If they're allowed to do that, then so am I.

They're not following you, you're following them. Therefore you are not comparing like with like. And it is harassment if you are following them around. Plus you must doubt the validity of your arguments if you feel people may vote FF without you arriving 2 mins later to persuade them otherwise.

mikemac · 04-02-2011 1:03am

You can do it OP, nobody stopping you from knocking on doors

But get that list together and be coherent, no point ranting on different topics on somebody's doorstep. I'm not saying you ever meant to do this.

Have your lists and examples ready.

You are going to be asked who you represent so and when you say nobody but I'm against some local candidates, you'll be getting a followup question

Just think of your answers to the questions. Most people will ask the same few questions, fairly predictable

zoeczk · 04-02-2011 1:04am

ilovesleep wrote: »

I want to get out in my area and canvass against FF. Would this be ok I wonder. I dont have any connections to any political parties or independants.

If ok, FF has done so much damage. What kind of info could I provide on an a5 sized page. Seems as if I would need a library on my back to do so.

how about a slice of cheese!! that was their solution http://www.mrlukeabbott.com/page/3/

charlemont · 04-02-2011 1:08am

ilovesleep wrote: »

I want to get out in my area and canvass against FF. Would this be ok I wonder. I dont have any connections to any political parties or independants.

If ok, FF has done so much damage. What kind of info could I provide on an a5 sized page. Seems as if I would need a library on my back to do so.

Your a good man, I love this idea, Still no FF canvassers on the terrace, Im sure they remember what happened here during the Local Elections..

Monty Burnz · 04-02-2011 1:14am

Baralis1 wrote: »

I didn't hear Enda Kenny standing up in between 2002 and 2007 demanding the banks be more closely regulated or warning of a property boom.

I don't think anyone other than the Fianna Failure inner circle was aware that the banks were essentially unregulated and creating a huge debt time-bomb. It was FF's job to appoint and monitor the regulator. They appointed a clown and let him do nothing. I don't think anyone outside FFailure can be blamed for that colossal failure.

Baralis1 · 04-02-2011 1:16am

feelingstressed wrote: »

You can do it OP, nobody stopping you from knocking on doors

But get that list together and be coherent, no point ranting on different topics on somebody's doorstep. I'm not saying you ever meant to do this.

Have your lists and examples ready.

You are going to be asked who you represent so and when you say nobody but I'm against some local candidates, you'll be getting a followup question

Just think of your answers to the questions. Most people will ask the same few questions, fairly predictable

Its a very negative attitude to go out door to door to say I represent nobody but I'm against some local candidates. Why don't you pick the candidate that you want to see get a seat and go out and canvass for them. Turn your energy into something positive. If you go out and ask people not to vote Fianna Fail but offer no alternative, people may well believe there is no alternative.

mikemac · 04-02-2011 1:20am

Baralis1 wrote: »

Its a very negative attitude to go out door to door to say I represent nobody but I'm against some local candidates. Why don't you pick the candidate that you want to see get a seat and go out and canvass for them. Turn your energy into something positive. If you go out and ask people not to vote Fianna Fail but offer no alternative, people may well believe there is no alternative.

I'd agree, negative tactics just turn me off. And others too I suppose

I would be more impressed OP if you showed up on my doorstep and were enthusiastic about a candidate you believed in. If you don't believe in your candidate then you're not going to represent them well
Or it's too late now but if you ran yourself

Tell me what you believe in, not what you oppose

Baralis1 · 04-02-2011 1:22am

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't think anyone other than the Fianna Failure inner circle was aware that the banks were essentially unregulated and creating a huge debt time-bomb. It was FF's job to appoint and monitor the regulator. They appointed a clown and let him do nothing. I don't think anyone outside FFailure can be blamed for that colossal failure.

I don't think that any members of the government knew much more than anyone else. The majority of the facts were there for us all to see and the vast majority of us failed to see or recognise them, or ignored them because we were in the middle of our much adored Celtic Tiger boom. The 100% loans and rapidly expanding property developments etc were not exactly a secret.

Liam Byrne · 04-02-2011 1:27am

Baralis1 wrote: »

They're not following you, you're following them. Therefore you are not comparing like with like. And it is harassment if you are following them around.

No, I'm just canvassing for integrity and honesty and competence. I was planning on doing it anyway, but FF arriving on my doorstep reminded me to get my ass in gear.

Baralis1 wrote: »

Plus you must doubt the validity of your arguments if you feel people may vote FF without you arriving 2 mins later to persuade them otherwise.

As I said, it was something I considered but anyone who can't see the truth about FF at this stage isn't going to be swayed.

Baralis1 · 04-02-2011 1:39am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No, I'm just canvassing for integrity and honesty and competence. I was planning on doing it anyway, but FF arriving on my doorstep reminded me to get my ass in gear.

As I said, it was something I considered but anyone who can't see the truth about FF at this stage isn't going to be swayed.

This is different from what you said in your earlier post. Canvassing is fine, a little pointless if you are not recomending a candidate but perfectly fine. Following canvassers around a housing estate to doorstop people they've spoken to 2 mins after they have left is harassment, and infringes their democratic right to canvass.

As for your second point, there are still lots of people who can be swayed yet. For example, there are a certain group of voters who want FF out of government, but don't want Enda Kenny as Taoiseach and disagree with Labour's policies and Sinn Feins past. They could swing either way.

Liam Byrne · 04-02-2011 1:49am

Baralis1 wrote: »

This is different from what you said in your earlier post. Canvassing is fine, a little pointless if you are not recomending a candidate but perfectly fine. Following canvassers around a housing estate to doorstop people they've spoken to 2 mins after they have left is harassment, and infringes their democratic right to canvass.

I said I would canvass the houses immediately after them.

Baralis1 wrote: »

As for your second point, there are still lots of people who can be swayed yet. For example, there are a certain group of voters who want FF out of government, but don't want Enda Kenny as Taoiseach and disagree with Labour's policies and Sinn Feins past. They could swing either way.

If they truly "want FF out of government", then they can't swing that way.

Fitzerb · 04-02-2011 1:53am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Do what I'm going to do and wait until the FF canvassers arrive, and then follow them to every house so that you're arriving right behind them and their lies and spin don't get a chance to sink in.

That said, I do think it's a waste, as the only people who would entertain FF at this stage are the die-hards; you could well be preaching to the 86% converted.

So therefore based on that calculation of 86% dont want FF then the following is true as per the Red C poll ?

FG 65% of voters dont want them

Labour 79% of Voters dont want them

SF 86% of voters dont want them

Greens 96% of voters dont want them

Indo's 88% of the voters dont want them

I have never seen an opinion poll recorded that way but its interesting if not somewhat extremely negative.

Fitzerb · 04-02-2011 1:54am

charlemont wrote: »

Your a good man, I love this idea, Still no FF canvassers on the terrace, Im sure they remember what happened here during the Local Elections..

I strongly recomend you do it. Its not breaking the law and could be highly entertaining.

Fitzerb · 04-02-2011 1:59am

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't think anyone other than the Fianna Failure inner circle was aware that the banks were essentially unregulated and creating a huge debt time-bomb. It was FF's job to appoint and monitor the regulator. They appointed a clown and let him do nothing. I don't think anyone outside FFailure can be blamed for that colossal failure.

Incorrect.

There is no Government interference allowed with the bank regulator. He must be independent of any interference or influence from Government.

Not the best set up but thats the fact. All Government can do is seek advise and information. If the Reg decides to tell lies to the DOF then it is quite difficult to verify that information.

But hey let not the truth destroy a good story

Baralis1 · 04-02-2011 2:04am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Do what I'm going to do and wait until the FF canvassers arrive, and then follow them to every house so that you're arriving right behind them and their lies and spin don't get a chance to sink in.
.

I believe this is your post. Canvassing every house they go to immediately after they leave to doorstop people into not taking on board what they said is harassment to me. Its harassment of the people also. They have a right to be given time to make up their own mind and consider what the canvassers said.

Liam Byrne · 04-02-2011 2:07am

Baralis1 wrote: »

I believe this is your post. Canvassing every house they go to immediately after they leave to doorstop people into not taking on board what they said is harassment to me. Its harassment of the people also. They have a right to be given time to make up their own mind and consider what the canvassers said.

You earlier claimed I was harassing the canvassers, despite me saying I'd arrive after them.

Anyway, as I said, if anyone believes FF's lies or thinks they're remotely competent at this stage they're not going to see sense, so it's a moot point.

scr123 · 04-02-2011 4:25pm

ilovesleep wrote: »

I want to get out in my area and canvass against FF. Would this be ok I wonder. I dont have any connections to any political parties or independants.

If ok, FF has done so much damage. What kind of info could I provide on an a5 sized page. Seems as if I would need a library on my back to do so.

Smiled when I saw this and the replies to it.

In 2007 75% of the electorate did not vote FF

In the actual vote 58% did not vote FF

Polls say these figures will increase come the election

What is particulary stupid about the ABFF today is that they think ABFF disturbed mentality is something new

Difficult task for the ABFF, subtract 1926 from 2011 and that will tell you how long ABFF hatred has been around

I smile as I say the ABFF have lost the last 6 elections in a row and even now they are scared stiff they will blow it again !

selfobsessed · 04-02-2011 4:44pm

You obviously have nothing else better to do hence your username.

leeroybrown · 04-02-2011 4:49pm

Be very careful with 'negative canvassing'. Some people will be receptive to it but you're equally likely to have the opposite effect and start to convince people that there's a witch hunt against them. I've seen it backfire in campaigns before.

Liam Byrne · 04-02-2011 4:51pm

scr123 wrote: »

Difficult task for the ABFF, subtract 1926 from 2011 and that will tell you how long ABFF hatred has been around

Again, you're just showing yourself up by not basing your posts on the facts or even remotely acknowledging that people have justified complaints against how FF operate and what they do.

I certainly haven't been around since 1926, and any objection I have to FF commenced with Haughey's objectionable modus operandi, were reinforced by Burke & Ahern, and have been cemented in place by O'Donoghue, O'Dea & Callely, with the astronomical incompetence - and blatant disregard for fairness and people's right to live without getting robbed to pay off gamblers - of Cowen & Lenihan proving that FF don't have a redeeming factor of any shape or form.

I don't know you, and I can't say what drives your posts or your blindness towards legitimate objections, but I can say that it is indicative of the contempt which FF show to people who object to their actions.

They just cannot fathom the fact that they have screwed up, and insist that it's a preconditioned hatred.

It's astoundingly deluded.

wee truck big driver · 04-02-2011 11:24pm

i will be voting for fianna fail so without having to go door to door i will give yous a chance see if your wasting your time or not. i will even make it easy for you by telling you why in order of preference
1. i would rather shove a hot poker up my hole than to see pinochio gilmore in goverment
2. the whole world is in recession its a wee bit hard to believe the goverment of one tiny wee country with no strategic or natural wealth could be resposible for this
3. the people who seem the angriest or the suckers who where taken in by the celtic tiger and couldnt spend the money they where getting quick enough (maybe feeling a bit stupid now and lashing out and the easy target)
4.sure there was corruption but make labour or fine gael the bigggest party and see how long before the corruption sets in
5.i refuse to have an english owned allegedly irsh media tell me how to vote.
6. and last of all would you let somebody in to drive the bus thats already going out of control who hasnt driven for years and failed there test the last time out

Liam Byrne · 04-02-2011 11:31pm

wee truck big driver wrote: »

1. i would rather shove a hot poker up my hole than to see pinochio gilmore in goverment

Then vote FG or Independent

wee truck big driver wrote: »

2. the whole world is in recession its a wee bit hard to believe the goverment of one tiny wee country with no strategic or natural wealth could be resposible for this

They're responsible for the size and impact of it

wee truck big driver wrote: »

3. the people who seem the angriest or the suckers who where taken in by the celtic tiger and couldnt spend the money they where getting quick enough (maybe feeling a bit stupid now and lashing out and the easy target)

Untrue. I'm angry and I never subscribed to the bull****. So you're 100% wrong there.

wee truck big driver wrote: »

4.sure there was corruption but make labour or fine gael the bigggest party and see how long before the corruption sets in

Even within that phrasing it would give us some time without corruption; it took FF ten years to be as bad as they are, and that was with the head-start of Haughey's protegé Ahern

wee truck big driver wrote: »

5.i refuse to have an english owned allegedly irsh media tell me how to vote.

Again, that doesn't even make sense. There's no media telling me how to vote and I'm not voting FF.

wee truck big driver wrote: »

6. and last of all would you let somebody in to drive the bus thats already going out of control who hasnt driven for years and failed there test the last time out

Depends on whether some of the testers were paid off via auction politics with money the country didn't have.

yoshytoshy · 04-02-2011 11:34pm

Fianna fail will have a minority of voters , because a minority of voters vote for fianna fail.
Fianna fail that is.

Keith186 · 04-02-2011 11:37pm

Ilovesleep and Liam Byrne, good luck with the canvassing I hope it goes well.

I don't agree with Baralis1, its not harassment in my opinion.

Truck driver, I think you might have your head in the sand a bit. Whilst the worldwide recession is not FF's fault they have a big part to play in why we still have a deep recession.

The people who couldn't spend the money quick enough are the Galway tent attendees which were in bed with FF.

Min · 04-02-2011 11:41pm

ilovesleep wrote: »

I want to get out in my area and canvass against FF. Would this be ok I wonder. I dont have any connections to any political parties or independants.

If ok, FF has done so much damage. What kind of info could I provide on an a5 sized page. Seems as if I would need a library on my back to do so.

I would complain about the amount social welfare has risen from 1997 to 2011.
I would also complain about the improved infrastrusture in the country, those twisty roads to get anywhere in the country are really missed, why the hell have we all these motorways?
I would also complain that under the FF government that Ireland is ranked as number 5 in the world in the human development index.
I would also complain that 400,000 more people are employed now compared to 1997.
I would complain that our minimum wage is still one of the highest in Europe despite a €1 cut.
I would complain that our export sector is booming.

Look at that terrible damage they have done...

Liam Byrne · 04-02-2011 11:52pm

Min wrote: »

I would complain about the amount social welfare has risen from 1997 to 2011.
I would complain that our minimum wage is still one of the highest in Europe despite a €1 cut.

Two reasons we are too uncompetitive.

Min wrote: »

I would also complain about the improved infrastrusture in the country, those twisty roads to get anywhere in the country are really missed, why the hell have we all these motorways?

The tolled ones that if we don't use because they're too expensive that we still have to pay the companies (headed by FF supporters) ?

Min wrote: »

I would also complain that under the FF government that Ireland is ranked as number 5 in the world in the human development index.

Would love to see the criteria to see how much quality of life, crime levels and health service standard is factored in.

Min wrote: »

I would also complain that 400,000 more people are employed now compared to 1997.

How much did the population rise in that period ?

Min wrote: »

I would complain that our export sector is booming.

Despite the aforementioned uncompetitiveness and the fact that it costs so much to live and operate in Ireland ? I would say that that's despite FF.

Min wrote: »

Look at that terrible damage they have done...

So you seriously believe that all of the above is worth - and mitigates - an unnecessary €85,000,000,000 (plus interest of €5,100,000,000 per annum) bill ?

wee truck big driver · 04-02-2011 11:54pm

i would vote for fine gael but a vote for them is a vote for labour and a vot for an independent is a wasted vote. the reason why we as a country or affected so bad is that we are a small country with no natural resources and we are isolated on the outskirts of europe and we where down for so long that when some money came along we didnt know how to handle it and no party in ireland would have handled the situation differently

Liam Byrne · 05-02-2011 12:00am

wee truck big driver wrote: »

when some money came along we didnt know how to handle it and no party in ireland would have handled the situation differently

Do you have proof of this ?

wee truck big driver · 05-02-2011 12:09am

what where they promising at the time of the last election or the one before that. where did you here them calling for reduced spending and increased taxes

Min · 05-02-2011 12:11am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Two reasons we are too uncompetitive.

The tolled ones that if we don't use because they're too expensive that we still have to pay the companies (headed by FF supporters) ?

Would love to see the criteria to see how much quality of life, crime levels and health service standard is factored in.

How much did the population rise in that period ?

Despite the aforementioned uncompetitiveness and the fact that it costs so much to live and operate in Ireland ? I would say that that's despite FF.
Look at that terrible damage they have done...

[/QUOTE]

The uncompetitive point - yes and that is why it needs to be cut, on a different topic on the politics forum we have people saying it is an injustice havinf cuts.

Have you polled the NRA or whoever runs the tolls to see who they will be voting for?

The UN uses the same criteria for every nation.
http://hdrstats.undp.org/en/countries/profiles/IRL.html
This what FF did to the country:

Each year since 1990 the Human Development Report has published the Human Development Index (HDI) which was introduced as an alternative to conventional measures of national development, such as level of income and the rate of economic growth. The HDI represents a push for a broader definition of well-being and provides a composite measure of three basic dimensions of human development: health, education and income. Between 1980 and 2010 Ireland's HDI rose by 0.7% annually from 0.720 to 0.895 today, which gives the country a rank of 5 out of 169 countries with comparable data. The HDI of OECD as a region increased from 0.723 in 1980 to 0.853 today, placing Ireland above the regional average. The HDI trends tell an important story both at the national and regional level and highlight the very large gaps in well-being and life chances that continue to divide our interconnected world.

If we were to listen to some then we should be well below the average given how incompetent some make FF out to be.

We had a lot of immigration during that period, I am not sure how many of these people have stayed or left since the recession started.
The fact is the unemployment rate would be 400,000 higher if no jobs were created under FF.

Your problem is you don't want to see any good that happened under the FF government, we all know about the wrongs but they did get some things right.

Min · 05-02-2011 12:14am

wee truck big driver wrote: »

i would vote for fine gael but a vote for them is a vote for labour and a vot for an independent is a wasted vote. the reason why we as a country or affected so bad is that we are a small country with no natural resources and we are isolated on the outskirts of europe and we where down for so long that when some money came along we didnt know how to handle it and no party in ireland would have handled the situation differently

I don't like the Labour party, I feel the same as yourself, I don't mind FG being in government but the thought of Eamon Gilmore and co as partners stops me.

Min · 05-02-2011 12:16am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Do you have proof of this ?

Last election all parties had growth rates above 4%, no tax increases, plenty of spending.

Liam Byrne · 05-02-2011 12:19am

wee truck big driver wrote: »

what where they promising at the time of the last election or the one before that. where did you here them calling for reduced spending and increased taxes

As has been explained, FF wouldn't let them see the true figures.

Ahern was lying about everything being just fine, and while anyone with sense would have been sceptical of that weasel, no-one who hadn't seen the full picture could have realised just how badly FF were screwing up.

Also, it's not - contrary to FF philosophy - about how much you spend, but how you spend it.

FF were the drunkard in the pub, throwing money at everything and assuming that would fix it without any management skills or intervention; James Reilly gave an example of Micheál Martin doing precisely this in relation to a hospital in the midlands.

05-02-2011 12:22am

Min wrote: »

I don't like the Labour party, I feel the same as yourself, I don't mind FG being in government but the thought of Eamon Gilmore and co as partners stops me.

How did you feel about the ff-labour coalition? Was it terrible bad too?

Liam Byrne · 05-02-2011 12:22am

Min wrote: »

Your problem is you don't want to see any good that happened under the FF government, we all know about the wrongs but they did get some things right.

No, but I don't see how anyone could even remotely think that the good outweighed the astronomical fvck-ups.

Plus I detest corruption.

As I said elsewhere, Hitler created the Volkswagen Beetle in order to make motoring affordable; I still wouldn't vote for him.....would you ?

Min · 05-02-2011 12:25am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

As has been explained, FF wouldn't let them see the true figures.

Ahern was lying about everything being just fine, and while anyone with sense would have been sceptical of that weasel, no-one who hadn't seen the full picture could have realised just how badly FF were screwing up.

Also, it's not - contrary to FF philosophy - about how much you spend, but how you spend it.

FF were the drunkard in the pub, throwing money at everything and assuming that would fix it without any management skills or intervention; James Reilly gave an example of Micheál Martin doing precisely this in relation to a hospital in the midlands.

Are you saying the opposition during the previous election made everything up regarding their economic policies as they had no figures to go on?
I don't remember them looking for figures, they had a lot figures - monthly tax take, expenditure figures, the amount of unemployment, growth rates, inflation rate and much more no doubt.
No figures were hidden from them.

Liam Byrne · 05-02-2011 12:29am

Min wrote: »

Are you saying the opposition during the previous election made everything up regarding their economic policies as they had no figures to go on?
I don't remember them looking for figures, they had a lot figures - monthly tax take, expenditure figures, the amount of unemployment, growth rates, inflation rate and much more no doubt.
No figures were hidden from them.

Garret Fitz explained recently that the figures that he'd gotten from FF when he was a TD were completely wrong, and he got a shock when he saw the real ones.

That was under Haughey.

I have no reason to believe that Haughey's protegé and fellow traveller would act any differently.

Min · 05-02-2011 12:33am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No, but I don't see how anyone could even remotely think that the good outweighed the astronomical fvck-ups.

Plus I detest corruption.

As I said elsewhere, Hitler created the Volkswagen Beetle in order to make motoring affordable; I still wouldn't vote for him.....would you ?

You godwinned the topic...thankfully FF have not started any war, at least under FF we got the peace process which has saved lives, I don't think anyone would associate Adolf with peace.

Things are bad, we could have done what some on the left suggest we still should do and then we would know what an astronomical f#ck up is.

There is corruption in other parties, it doesn't make it right that it happens in any but most politicians and this includes FF are not involved in corruption.

Min · 05-02-2011 12:42am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Garret Fitz explained recently that the figures that he'd gotten from FF when he was a TD were completely wrong, and he got a shock when he saw the real ones.

That was under Haughey.

I have no reason to believe that Haughey's protegé and fellow traveller would act any differently.

That is going back a long time now, Garret Fitzgerald had a government collapse because of a tax on children's shoes, I bet he got a shock then too.

It doesn't say much for the opposition if they can be fooled continously.

Canvassing against FF.

Comments