Limerick-Foynes Rail Line

Treepole · 07-12-2018 4:23pm

marno21 wrote: »

The Robertstown viaduct near Foynes?

I wouldn't call that three-arch, but then again I wouldn't be that au-fait with bridge construction lingo.

flyingsnail · 07-12-2018 4:25pm

pigtown wrote: »

I don't know, I just saw a notice in the Limerick Post.

What page is that on ?

pigtown · 07-12-2018 4:46pm

flyingsnail wrote: »

What page is that on ?

Near the back

Mango Joe · 07-12-2018 4:48pm

Hi All,

Just curious to get an overview of this as it stands right now. I've read through the thread but given the length of time its run for there's been a lot of speculation as people tried to guess how things might pan out etc. So just wondering what the likely situation is now after the passage of time?

As of now is IEs application to carry out this work on the bridge a good indicator something may happen?

Is this service likely to carry commuters, freight or both?

At a guess when might trains actually run? Would it be in 5-10 years time etc?

I may have missed it but could someone post a link to the likely route with stations marked on it?

Thanks!

L1011 · 07-12-2018 5:37pm

Freight, it's an existing but unmaintained route and there won't be any intermediate stations.

Treepole · 07-12-2018 5:53pm

Mango Joe wrote: »

Hi All,

Just curious to get an overview of this as it stands right now. I've read through the thread but given the length of time its run for there's been a lot of speculation as people tried to guess how things might pan out etc. So just wondering what the likely situation is now after the passage of time?

As of now is IEs application to carry out this work on the bridge a good indicator something may happen?

Is this service likely to carry commuters, freight or both?

At a guess when might trains actually run? Would it be in 5-10 years time etc?

I may have missed it but could someone post a link to the likely route with stations marked on it?

Thanks!

If you look at Foynes on Google Maps you can follow the route from there. It's a bit circuitous but it's actually close enough to the route that the new M20 Spur to Foynes will eventually take.

Fsxlover2 · 08-01-2019 10:27pm

Mango Joe wrote: »

Hi All,

Just curious to get an overview of this as it stands right now. I've read through the thread but given the length of time its run for there's been a lot of speculation as people tried to guess how things might pan out etc. So just wondering what the likely situation is now after the passage of time?

As of now is IEs application to carry out this work on the bridge a good indicator something may happen?

Is this service likely to carry commuters, freight or both?

At a guess when might trains actually run? Would it be in 5-10 years time etc?

I may have missed it but could someone post a link to the likely route with stations marked on it?

Thanks!

1. Well no trains can run if the old bridge remains, so i assume its one step further to reopening the line.

2.Its going to be freight.

3.Depends, you could have inspection cars and weed sprayers on the line soon enough but normal freight trains might be in a while (if ever).

4. Google: Foynes railway map

Oscar1978 · 15-05-2019 7:29pm

Any work done on Robertstown viaduct or any work in general?

Pete2k · 02-10-2020 6:00am

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/reopening-limerick-foynes-rail-freight-line-makes-sense-says-minister-1.4369536

I would imagine this involves relaying the entire line and bringing it up to suitable level for passenger traffic at least as far as Adare given the recent comments from the minister. Relaying the castlemungret adjacent line as far as the turnoff and using it as a double track as far as here would also help.

Cookiemunster · 02-10-2020 9:44am

Quote from the article.

The move would cut truck journeys between the city and port by 800 a year

That's 2.2 trucks a day, or 3 trucks a day if you only count Monday to Friday. That's not even a dent in the truck numbers. Would it even lead to one full train a week?

Surely you need a much stronger business case than that to spend €45m to open a line for 1-2 trains a week.

Pete2k wrote: »

I would imagine this involves relaying the entire line and bringing it up to suitable level for passenger traffic at least as far as Adare given the recent comments from the minister. Relaying the castlemungret adjacent line as far as the turnoff and using it as a double track as far as here would also help.

A passenger line would need the reinstatement of the bridge across Careys Road (which was removed 50 years ago with the alignment built on) to allow access to Colbert Station. That would be very very expensive and would most definitely not be covered by the mooted €45m.

1huge1 · 02-10-2020 10:04am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

A passenger line would need the reinstatement of the bridge across Careys Road (which was removed 50 years ago with the alignment built on) to allow access to Colbert Station. That would be very very expensive and would most definitely not be covered by the mooted €45m.

Wouldnt that only be the case if the destination for these cargo trains would be Colbert St. Does it make sense that cargo trains would terminate in the middle of the city or continue on to another destination which it can do at present?

Cookiemunster · 02-10-2020 11:24am

1huge1 wrote: »

Wouldnt that only be the case if the destination for these cargo trains would be Colbert St. Does it make sense that cargo trains would terminate in the middle of the city or continue on to another destination which is can do at present?

I was referring to Pete2k saying that the line could be reopened to passengers as far a Adare as part of this. That's why the first words of the bit that you quoted are 'A passenger line'.

1huge1 · 02-10-2020 12:08pm

My mistake, should really take that "attention to detail" line off my CV.

end of the road · 02-10-2020 12:15pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Quote from the article.

That's 2.2 trucks a day, or 3 trucks a day if you only count Monday to Friday. That's not even a dent in the truck numbers. Would it even lead to one full train a week?

Surely you need a much stronger business case than that to spend €45m to open a line for 1-2 trains a week.

A passenger line would need the reinstatement of the bridge across Careys Road (which was removed 50 years ago with the alignment built on) to allow access to Colbert Station. That would be very very expensive and would most definitely not be covered by the mooted €45m.

trucks off the road is trucks off the road.
baby steps, you can't expect a dent to be made from day one.

02-10-2020 12:28pm

end of the road wrote: »

trucks off the road is trucks off the road.
baby steps, you can't expect a dent to be made from day one.

To be honest, you would need to reinstate a large amount of the freight facilities all over the country and move away from JIT logistics for rail freight to return in any major way.

end of the road · 02-10-2020 12:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest, you would need to reinstate a large amount of the freight facilities all over the country and move away from JIT logistics for rail freight to return in any major way.

agreed, but that's something that goes way way beyond reopening the foynes branch.
i'm assuming if the branch was to reopen and i'm not holding my breath, i would imagine it would be on the basis that there would be potential for growth from the base load usage over a long term.
but as i said, i'm not holding my breath for a reopening, i will believe it when i hear of track relaying taking place.

Paddico · 02-10-2020 1:14pm

Theres an old strip line about 2km long leading off the line into Rathkeale.

Could be the starting point for limerick commuter services

IE 222 · 02-10-2020 1:56pm

Paddico wrote: »

Theres an old strip line about 2km long leading off the line into Rathkeale.

Could be the starting point for limerick commuter services

That's the old line to Newcastle West and onto to Kerry.

I think a branch to Newcastle West would justify the cost of reopening for passenger services.

Where SFPC willing to put money towards this as well

IE 222 · 02-10-2020 2:08pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be honest, you would need to reinstate a large amount of the freight facilities all over the country and move away from JIT logistics for rail freight to return in any major way.

Foynes is bulk loads of loose materials. JIT isn't an issue with this and it isn't operated anywhere near the scale it is in the UK. JIT is mainly ro/ro traffic and IE won't be targeting this traffic as they can't transport it. Freight facilities are not overly complicated and rather cheap once you have the yard space. Ballina is literally just a reach stacker and space.

andrewfaulk · 02-10-2020 8:40pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Foynes is bulk loads of loose materials. JIT isn't an issue with this and it isn't operated anywhere near the scale it is in the UK. JIT is mainly ro/ro traffic and IE won't be targeting this traffic as they can't transport it. Freight facilities are not overly complicated and rather cheap once you have the yard space. Ballina is literally just a reach stacker and space.

Agree whole heartedly with this.. JIT is massively over hyped on this forum, and irrelevant to container or bulk traffic which is what rail freight does

02-10-2020 9:04pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Foynes is bulk loads of loose materials. JIT isn't an issue with this and it isn't operated anywhere near the scale it is in the UK. JIT is mainly ro/ro traffic and IE won't be targeting this traffic as they can't transport it. Freight facilities are not overly complicated and rather cheap once you have the yard space. Ballina is literally just a reach stacker and space.

In relation to JIT, I was thinking of freight in general, as opposed to this particular port and bulk material transfer, but I do take your point.

andrewfaulk · 03-10-2020 6:24pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In relation to JIT, I was thinking of freight in general, as opposed to this particular port and bulk material transfer, but I do take your point.

In general freight even, JIT isn’t that common.. cheaper is better is the rule more often than not

Oscar1978 · 05-10-2020 12:19pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Quote from the article.

That's 2.2 trucks a day, or 3 trucks a day if you only count Monday to Friday. That's not even a dent in the truck numbers. Would it even lead to one full train a week?

Surely you need a much stronger business case than that to spend €45m to open a line for 1-2 trains a week.

A passenger line would need the reinstatement of the bridge across Careys Road (which was removed 50 years ago with the alignment built on) to allow access to Colbert Station. That would be very very expensive and would most definitely not be covered by the mooted €45m.

In fairness in relation to the passenger line you wouldn't need the bridge at Carey's road as the set up would be something similar to Limerick Galway at Athenry. It'd be a case of rolling on towards Limerick check and reversing the short distance back into Colbert. The passenger trains would probably be two unit diesels similar to Limerick Ballybrophy.

trellheim · 05-10-2020 2:43pm

In fairness as well the alignment is clear to build if you wanted to go left or
right of the old CIE club see https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6561534,-8.6212154,3a,51.2y,170.2h,79.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snnB63_TL_udmI5E5s2MpJA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Cookiemunster · 05-10-2020 3:20pm

trellheim wrote: »

In fairness as well the alignment is clear to build if you wanted to go left or
right of the old CIE club see https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6561534,-8.6212154,3a,51.2y,170.2h,79.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snnB63_TL_udmI5E5s2MpJA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The alignment was a bridge crossing Careys Road of which the stone wall was was one embankment. On top of the embankment there are houses either side of the old track bed. You would need to reinstate the embankment on where the CIE club is and build a new bridge.

There's a photo of it during its removal in 1975 here.

IE 222 · 05-10-2020 5:16pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The alignment was a bridge crossing Careys Road of which the stone wall was was one embankment. On top of the embankment there are houses either side of the old track bed. You would need to reinstate the embankment on where the CIE club is and build a new bridge.

There's a photo of it during its removal in 1975 here.

The housing shouldn't cause any problems. They were there when the line was last in service. The club would need to be demolished and reinstate the embankment. The embankment is still in place at the rare of the club.

Cookiemunster · 05-10-2020 5:25pm

IE 222 wrote: »

The housing shouldn't cause any problems. They were there when the line was last in service. The club would need to be demolished and reinstate the embankment. The embankment is still in place at the rare of the club.

I mentioned the housing because the poster prosposed moving the route of the line around the CIE club which would impact the housing. I don't think they took the height differentials into account either.

I'm well aware that it could be reinstated. I never said it couldn't be

trellheim · 05-10-2020 8:52pm

I was there when the embankment was demolished.

marno21 · 01-11-2020 8:35pm

Apparently likely to be included in the new National Development Plan to be published in early next year

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/climate-change-projects-make-waves-in-new-national-development-plan-wnzw67mh9

trellheim · 09-11-2020 9:37pm

This keeps cropping up - is it because of TEN-T funding or something ? I saw a note in Modern Railways.

spacetweek · 09-01-2021 9:54pm

trellheim wrote: »

This keeps cropping up - is it because of TEN-T funding or something ? I saw a note in Modern Railways.

It's eligible for it, but also cause Eamon Ryan is pushing it hard.

ncounties · 10-01-2021 12:43pm

marno21 wrote: »

Apparently likely to be included in the new National Development Plan to be published in early next year

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/climate-change-projects-make-waves-in-new-national-development-plan-wnzw67mh9

Just read the article. A bit late to the party I know. But what do they mean that the line could be used for "Renewable Energy Exports"? Also, veering momentarily off thread, does anyone with a subscription know if the article refers to the Navan line too?

marno21 · 10-01-2021 6:36pm

ncounties wrote: »

Just read the article. A bit late to the party I know. But what do they mean that the line could be used for "Renewable Energy Exports"? Also, veering momentarily off thread, does anyone with a subscription know if the article refers to the Navan line too?

I think Eamon has a notion of creating a cluster of industry in Mayo either relating to emerging renewable technologies or else heavy industry powered by offshore wind. Either renewable energy related goods or goods produced by renewable energy in Mayo could be transported to Foynes via the railway.

Pie in the sky stuff.

Nothing about Navan in that article.

spacetweek · 10-01-2021 7:41pm

Only two projects mentioned specifically in the article were Galway - Athenry and Limerick to Foynes.

Pete_Cavan · 10-01-2021 9:33pm

If it is mentioned in the revised NDP, I'd say it will be along the lines of how further sections of the WRC were mentioned in the previous one; assess its feasibility and fund if viable or something like that. The recently published reports on WRC should see it omitted in the revision, Limerick - Foynes could slot in in its place.

Paddico · 13-01-2022 3:23pm

Was the study to re-open this ever published

munchkin_utd · 15-11-2022 11:26am

what on earth will the railway actually carry ?

From what I see Foynes specialises in bulk cargo, which on paper lends itsself perfectly to a rail link, except that any recipient of bulk cargo would need to be connected to the rail network, if they are even anywhere near a rail line in the first place.

Their new strategy for growth is importing windmills, so great, but not something for the irish railways with its low bridges and whatnot

Theres mentioning of Hydrogen production there but thats far in the future still.

They dont do containers in Foynes so the trains wouldnt carry those, so what will they carry ? Its a very large investment for a very hidden if not non-existant use case . It seems to be a case of "build it and they will come", but is there literally nothing more in the reopening than that ?

loyatemu · 15-11-2022 12:48pm

it's mentioned on the first page of this thread (11 years ago!) that there's a Zinc mine opening in Pallas East near the Limerick Junction line - is that still a potential customer?

munchkin_utd · 15-11-2022 1:58pm

reading a bit more, the locals are not dreaming of any job creation in logistics or industry, its about having a train to bring people to the Ryder cup.

In the Dail, Eamonn Ryan even says the same. So, its a 104million euro railway to a "strategic" port as a front to get cash for a rail link for the Ryder cup.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debate/?id=2022-03-03a.65

In fairness, Eamonn Ryan does mention "Ore" so maybe thats the initial business case, but jesus, can someone not say this explicitly or are they in typical dept of transport mode that they are petrified of getting sued over anti competitive behaviour.

MyLove4Satan · 20-11-2022 6:09pm

The line is actually being reopened - the plant and equiptment has already arrived on site.

brianc89 · 20-11-2022 6:35pm

Is there a longer term plan to open the Waterford to Rosslare section?

There would then be a line to bring freight from Rosslare to Foynes, which would help building up windpower, transporting LNG and moving freight off the motorways. It would also take huge pressure off Dublin Port which is definitely needed in the longterm

L1011 · 20-11-2022 10:17pm

No. Also, Rosslare didn't do railfreight anyway, it isn't that type of port.

Geuze · 20-11-2022 10:38pm

As part of the re-opening, are all LC to be eliminated?

What will the max speed be? 160kph? 120 kph?

munchkin_utd · 21-11-2022 9:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119899271#Comment_119899271

aside from the fact that offloading freight in one port, and shipping it by land a few 100km to another port to send it back out to sea, doesnt seem to be a sensible thing to do even if it were possible.

I did a bit of searching and there seems to be the possibility of Zinc and lead mining in a stretch of land from Kildare to Tipp with test drilling and decisions being made at the moment, so if that works out there might be one or more potential customers from those mines.

You'd wonder too would Tara then send their shipments through Foynes if it becomes a major Ore handing port.

A fair few "ifs" in there though, and who is to know whether the mines simply send their ORE to Dublin and ignore Foynes. Sure, Foynes had a rail line until relatively recently and it didnt seem to get much use so why should that change now ?

cgcsb · 24-11-2022 3:56pm

It would be great to see passenger services and a Limerick commuter rail service. 4 lines starting at Cobert and serving Foynes(with doradoyle spur), Limerick Junction, Ennis and Neenagh with a proper usable schedule and more stations in Limerick City. Do more to remove cars from the city centre as much as possible.

Cookiemunster · 24-11-2022 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916328#Comment_119916328

Limerick needs proper bus service that goes to the places that people need to go to, not a rail service that doesn't. Most people live and work on the outskirts of the city. Very few live or work in the city center, so a service on 1800s single track rail alignments that don't serve places like UL, Castletroy or Plassey or the majority of the North side of the river and terminates at Colbert isn't going to be used. Having to change at Colbert and then walk 2-3 km is not going to take people out of their cars.

Build proper bus lanes, put park and rides along the major entry points into the city at the N18, N24, M7 and M20 and increase bus services and it will go a lot further to reduce traffic in the city center.

Glaceon · 24-11-2022 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119877052#Comment_119877052

I said as much in the thread in the Train and Rail Systems forum. The N7 Naas Road was built to a high standard specifically because of the Ryder Cup in 2006. So this wouldn't surprise me at all; if you want to get something done in this country, just get a major sporting event involved somehow. But there are rumours about that zinc mine going around too.

cgcsb · 24-11-2022 4:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916469#Comment_119916469

Can do both. It doesn't have to be single track either. Limerick Junction line is being doubled in any case

Beta Ray Bill · 24-11-2022 4:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916469#Comment_119916469

It's to small to get any kind of good scalable public transport like light rail or diverse bus service. There's less than 100,000 people living there.

That being said, a direct rail link to Shannon Airport would be very beneficial to the city.

It would however mean CPO'ing a heap of stuff above on the North East of Mallow St all the way river and then the same again out to the R445

Elevated Rail could potentially reduce the CPO'ing burden OR just cut west and hug the coast to the Airport

The only REAL way to make money on Rail is to move freight.

A rail freight hub at the airport would certainly make the process a bit more appealing.

Cookiemunster · 24-11-2022 4:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119916527#Comment_119916527

Have a look at google maps. It's not possible to double track the line from Moyross to the city. It has housing backing onto the line on both sides from Corbally in. There isn't room to double track the Foynes line between the M20 and Dooradoyle/Raheen either.

Limerick-Foynes Rail Line

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