Best Trees or Mix of Trees for Roadside/Driveway

Accidentally · 04-12-2020 8:50pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And just to be contrary, I am very fond of the oul brambles. We have over 100 species in Ireland, some quite rare. They are superb for wildlife, provide structure and security for birds nests - most garden birds don't nest high up in trees like in cartoons, but in low thick scrubby out of the way corners. Fantastic for pollinators and of course for autumn food, and can deter unwelcome visitors too.

I've about two acres of them that would like to become four. How much do you have?

DonalB1 · 04-12-2020 10:34pm

I’m confused now hahaha do I take out the briars or not!?

Any other suggestions for what would look good closer to the house in a row that may not grow to incredibly high and would look neat? I was thinking silver birch

04-12-2020 11:05pm

Accidentally wrote: »

I've about two acres of them that would like to become four. How much do you have?

Two acres might be a bit much! Mine hide a corner of a suburban back garden; if there are any nests, at least the cats can't get them.

Re what to do, if they are in the way of where you are planting, or growing over saplings, whack them, but I would say don't get rid of any just for the sake of it.

looksee · 04-12-2020 11:50pm

Even with all the slashing and removing we still have loads of brambly corners! Give them an inch and they take over the entire garden. We also have wood heaps, stone walls, dead trees and nettle patches, loads of space for the wild creatures including bunnies that keep digging up the daffodils as fast as you plant them... We did have the satisfaction of finding a hawthorn tree, one of the very few left in one stretch of 'hedgerow', that we freed from the brambles growing through its branches - in fact now that most of the brambles have gone there are literally two scrawny hawthorns and a couple of wild roses in the entire length, so we have started replanting it, only rowan and wild cherry for the moment, but more will follow.

DonalB1 · 04-12-2020 11:51pm

Hi guys, sorry now for another silly post.

It’s promised very cold for the next 4-5 days. Some bare root trees arrived last night and I planned to plant them this weekend. Is it a terrible idea to plant when there’s potential frost? If so what should I do to preserve the bare roots until it’s safe to plant?

looksee · 04-12-2020 11:57pm

If the ground is not frozen (its not) and the conditions are not arctic, plant away, they will be fine. Keep the roots covered and damp and frost free till they go in.

DonalB1 · 05-12-2020 12:11am

looksee wrote: »

If the ground is not frozen (its not) and the conditions are not arctic, plant away, they will be fine. Keep the roots covered and damp and frost free till they go in.

Ok, they’re wrapped up and I haven’t watered them or anything. I left them in the shed as the house is too warm.

baaba maal · 05-12-2020 9:56am

DonalB1 wrote: »

I’m confused now hahaha do I take out the briars or not!?

Any other suggestions for what would look good closer to the house in a row that may not grow to incredibly high and would look neat? I was thinking silver birch

Spindle. An absolutely gorgeous native big shrub/little tree.

DonalB1 · 05-12-2020 11:10am

baaba maal wrote: »

Spindle. An absolutely gorgeous native big shrub/little tree.

Spindle is a good one. Thank you. I’m just conscious as there’s an over head wire about 12 feet just outside the wall. So I’d like something that looks good in a uniformed row.

How hard is the below to achieve? It looks like the hornbeam which is usually used as a hedge? Would that take a lot to achieve?

CelticRambler · 05-12-2020 11:23am

DonalB1 wrote: »

How hard is the below to achieve? It looks like the hornbeam which is usually used as a hedge? Would that take a lot to achieve?

Not hard-hard, as in difficult-hard, but it's a lot (a lot) of work, every year. Very popular in most French towns and villages, even those of less than a 1000 people, and you'd see a team of four or five lads working on the line of trees over two or three days (complete with a cherry picker to get to the tops and a high-sided flat-bed truck to take away the clippings.

That kind of appearance is serious landscaping and needs actual pruning (with lops/secateurs) not just a quick pass with a hedge trimmer. Also, the trees look desperately stark for about two weeks after they've been pruned, before the new leaves sprout.

DonalB1 · 05-12-2020 12:22pm

Ok...so that's a no go hahaha this group is so informative it's incredible.

Back to the drawing board so. I'd love to place a row of Arbutus unedo but the only bare root ones I can find are 70 each.

Would either of these be hard to achieve and what type of tree are they?

looksee · 05-12-2020 12:48pm

I seriously doubt you are going to get (or really, should want) that formal, organised, plumptious effect in the west of ireland. You need trees that will take happily to the environment, as I said before, look around at what is growing near you, that is the kind of look you will get.

Fuchsia is indeed not native (though naturalised) and can go rampant in more clement areas, but there is a good reason why you see so much of it growing easily in the west.

Arbutus grows easily enough from seed, which you can probably get in Ireland, certainly you can get it from Chiltern Seeds in the UK.

As a gardener you have to, to a large extent, go with the conditions you have, rather than try and fight them.

CelticRambler · 05-12-2020 2:45pm

DonalB1 wrote: »

Back to the drawing board so. I'd love to place a row of Arbutus unedo but the only bare root ones I can find are 70 each.

I'm getting a bit confused now with what you're looking for. Are you still talking about a single hedge as a privacy screen along the road? Or are you moving on to another tree-line of interest?

DonalB1 · 05-12-2020 7:22pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

I'm getting a bit confused now with what you're looking for. Are you still talking about a single hedge as a privacy screen along the road? Or are you moving on to another tree-line of interest?

I’m a bit confused myself hahahaha

I suppose I want some nice trees for up along the drive to the house that are pretty but not too tall.

I’ve planted 10 trees along the road side today. They were a mix of birch, mountain ash, alder and hazel. I planted them just behind some thorn bushes and used the slit method which I’m not sure about as 1-2 of them were 150-180cm. I also used stakes which were far too big for them so I’ll need to buy something smaller tomorrow. I tried to make sure they were pointed straight up but they seemed to lean against the steak.

Please let me know if I’d need to do something to readjust.

CelticRambler · 05-12-2020 8:34pm

DonalB1 wrote: »

I’m a bit confused myself hahahaha

I suppose I want some nice trees for up along the drive to the house that are pretty but not too tall.

Hmm. I think you've done a bit too much thinking (or too much googling!

) It feels to me like you're literally looking at this from the wrong side - i.e. trying to "frame" the house in all kinds of different ways when viewed by passers-by, and forgetting that you'll spend a lot more time looking at the boundary from inside.

What I see in your second aerial photo is a continuous L-shaped line from the black to the blue (and the pink if you wanted to carry on). Sitting in the garden, I'd want the whole of that line to be as harmonious as possible, which you can achieve with a decent mix of native woodland species that need next to no maintenance.

What you've asked for in terms of prettiness and all-year interest can be much more easily achieved with a border planted inside the line of the hedge, and starting (for example) with a set of almost-formal arrangements of shrubs and ground cover every (say) five metres. That'll help keep your cost down while you get a better idea of what you really want.

Towards the outside, I'd be planting the trees about 2m back from the road (or about the same depth as the parking space there beside the gate). You could leave this as nothing but a flat, grassy strip; or mow the first metre and plant a mix of low-growing native/naturalised shrubs and bulbs in the second metre. Remember that you only need a screen-height of 2m to stop most people seeing into the garden, so you don't really need the trees to do this.

As for that last bit of road/drive up to the gate, unless you own the land on the far side of you can forget any kind of formal avenue type arrangement, because these are always designed to be balanced (and usually perfectly symmetrical) left and right. But with the trees as a backdrop, there'd be nothing wrong with putting some more exotic/expensive plants in that last section. Use the wall to your advantage, if there's enough space, by planting very low-growing flowers on the outside, and the taller things on the inside so that they grow up and fall over the top without crowding the little guys.

Drewgerger · 05-12-2020 8:38pm

Where's south you need to keep that open
You only need trees at front of house

oak, ash, hazel, birch, Scots pine, rowan and willow. beech, sycamore, horse chestnut, spruce, larch and fir

DonalB1 · 05-12-2020 9:40pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

Hmm. I think you've done a bit too much thinking (or too much googling! ) It feels to me like you're literally looking at this from the wrong side - i.e. trying to "frame" the house in all kinds of different ways when viewed by passers-by, and forgetting that you'll spend a lot more time looking at the boundary from inside.

What I see in your second aerial photo is a continuous L-shaped line from the black to the blue (and the pink if you wanted to carry on). Sitting in the garden, I'd want the whole of that line to be as harmonious as possible, which you can achieve with a decent mix of native woodland species that need next to no maintenance.

What you've asked for in terms of prettiness and all-year interest can be much more easily achieved with a border planted inside the line of the hedge, and starting (for example) with a set of almost-formal arrangements of shrubs and ground cover every (say) five metres. That'll help keep your cost down while you get a better idea of what you really want.

Towards the outside, I'd be planting the trees about 2m back from the road (or about the same depth as the parking space there beside the gate). You could leave this as nothing but a flat, grassy strip; or mow the first metre and plant a mix of low-growing native/naturalised shrubs and bulbs in the second metre. Remember that you only need a screen-height of 2m to stop most people seeing into the garden, so you don't really need the trees to do this.

As for that last bit of road/drive up to the gate, unless you own the land on the far side of you can forget any kind of formal avenue type arrangement, because these are always designed to be balanced (and usually perfectly symmetrical) left and right. But with the trees as a backdrop, there'd be nothing wrong with putting some more exotic/expensive plants in that last section. Use the wall to your advantage, if there's enough space, by planting very low-growing flowers on the outside, and the taller things on the inside so that they grow up and fall over the top without crowding the little guys.

You’re 100% right that I’m over thinking it. I’ve looked at too much online and ended up confusing myself.

I’ve actually know the neighbour quite well, and he’s keen to plant something also and he suggested that if I was planting trees that he would plant the same across the way so it would look like a sort of formal arrangement. I just have to find the ideal one that won’t cost an arm and a leg as there’ll probably be 10-12 needed in total.

baaba maal · 06-12-2020 10:22am

DonalB1 wrote: »

You’re 100% right that I’m over thinking it. I’ve looked at too much online and ended up confusing myself.

I’ve actually know the neighbour quite well, and he’s keen to plant something also and he suggested that if I was planting trees that he would plant the same across the way so it would look like a sort of formal arrangement. I just have to find the ideal one that won’t cost an arm and a leg as there’ll probably be 10-12 needed in total.

CelticRambler's post is really good advice. Just to say on the whips-personally, I don't stake whips. Small fruit trees, yes, they need support because of the extra weight they carry, but standard whips of birch, holly etc., once they are footed in (try to make sure the soil level residue you see on the whip is the same when you have finished footing it). I am talking about plants that are no thicker then your thumb. If bigger than that then I would. The current thinking on staking seems to be the two low posts with a wooden cross piece and the tree properly secured to it.

And I have yet to plant a whip that is pointing straight up! They will soon right themselves.

Species like arbutus and spindle I would put on the house side of the planting- they make lovely specimen small tree or large shrub.

One other thought- I don't think it has been suggested, but if it is, my advice on planting flowering cherry on the drive (something you see commonly enough) would be a resounding no. We have a row on one side of our drive, already well established when we bought the house. Absolutely gorgeous for that period when in flower, but the first strong wind (which you look susceptible to!) and the flowers are gone- and they are a relatively dull tree to look at otherwise.
You previously mentioned about getting straight stems on trees on the drive before I think- it is possible to shape trees as they grow to allow this. So something like birch responds well to "raising the crown"- essentially, as the tree grows, you remove the lower branches and this helps to stop the tree forking or twisting. A decent loppers is the way to do this (in other words while the branches are relatively small you remove them rather than growing a big tree and then taking on big job to reduce them). The attachment is my ongoing and rough go at this. Technically, I don't own those trees so I didn't do it very neatly but you get a sense of it. There was willow growing between them that I cut back completely hence the "neat" spread of branches. Thinning trees out in forestry works the same as this.

Sorry if some of this sounds obvious.

Is the neighbour on the site at the top of the pic?

CelticRambler · 06-12-2020 2:10pm

baaba maal wrote: »

The current thinking on staking seems to be the two low posts with a wooden cross piece and the tree properly secured to it.

Yes. I meant to make a comment to that effect yesterday. I'm not sure the exact form of the "stake" matters very much, but what I read/saw (can't quite remember now) was that it's important to fix the lower part of the sapling (at about 30-50cm from the ground) to stop the root from moving, but equally important to allow the rest to sway in the wind to encourage the stem to develop into a good solid, wind-resistant trunk. I think the guy I saw doing it used a single stake at a 45° angle.

baaba maal wrote: »

my advice on planting flowering cherry on the drive (something you see commonly enough) would be a resounding no. We have a row on one side of our drive, already well established when we bought the house. Absolutely gorgeous for that period when in flower, but the first strong wind (which you look susceptible to!) and the flowers are gone- and they are a relatively dull tree to look at otherwise.

I'm inclined to agree, although the dark foliage can make for a nice contrast when everything else is lush green! On one of my regular-ish long distance routes, I pass an avenue where they've planted purple-leaved cherries alternately with something green (might just be a green-leaved cherry) and it looks good. Mind you, that driveway is probably about 1km long, and the trees are heavily pruned every year.

baaba maal wrote: »

You previously mentioned about getting straight stems on trees on the drive before I think- it is possible to shape trees as they grow to allow this. So something like birch responds well to "raising the crown"- essentially, as the tree grows, you remove the lower branches and this helps to stop the tree forking or twisting. A decent loppers is the way to do this (in other words while the branches are relatively small you remove them rather than growing a big tree and then taking on big job to reduce them).

I've been doing this with a patch of self-sown oaks (on an area previously overrun with brambles :rolleyes: ) and it's very satisfying to see the result after five-to-ten years. Between the trees, apart from removing the few brambles that re-appear, I keep a path mowed through the grass and swish the strimmer over the rest twice a year. Very easy maintenance, and the infrequent mower-strimmer protocol somewhat mimics low-intensity grazing, meaning that the ground level is full of wild-flowers in the spring. Mind you, we're talking about a band about 10m deep to get that effect, so not entirely appropriate for your project.

DonalB1 · 06-12-2020 2:24pm

Thanks again guys. The birch above looks great. I’ll definitely try some of that.

Ok, so on advice I went to local garden centre which is quite large and person there told me with whips you shouldn’t use a stake of any kind as it doesn’t encourage the plant to develop a proper root system. That none of the forestry use them. Also said not to use any mesh as rabbits etc won’t eat the trees.

I’m a little confused now as anything I read online said to do both

CelticRambler · 06-12-2020 2:45pm

DonalB1 wrote: »

with whips you shouldn’t use a stake of any kind as it doesn’t encourage the plant to develop a proper root system. That none of the forestry use them.

If you're planting 1-year old whips of about a metre high, there's probably no need. Older/taller than that ... every week/month/centimetre of growth makes it more important.

DonalB1 wrote: »

Also said not to use any mesh as rabbits etc won’t eat the trees.

Sounds like someone who's never planted a tree in his life!

DonalB1 · 06-12-2020 2:48pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

If you're planting 1-year old whips of about a metre high, there's probably no need. Older/taller than that ... every week/month/centimetre of growth makes it more important.

Sounds like someone who's never planted a tree in his life!

So I should get a protective guard?

Some of the whips are 150-200cm

CelticRambler · 06-12-2020 3:15pm

DonalB1 wrote: »

So I should get a protective guard?

I would. Every day, I see damage to my trees from my resident hare, and my farmer-neighbour has all his oak saplings protected after he had to replace about half an acre's worth due to them being nibbled at by deer.

DonalB1 wrote: »

Some of the whips are 150-200cm

I'd be staking them. The force of a good gust on the top of a 1.5m stick is more than enough to pull a root out of the ground.

macraignil · 06-12-2020 3:26pm

DonalB1 wrote: »

So I should get a protective guard?

Some of the whips are 150-200cm

It can depend on your local area as to weather or not hare damage is a potential problem. Used to get it here up until the girlfriend got a couple of rescue dogs to mark out the garden as their own and there has been no sign of the hares since. If you have a dog patrolling the garden you might get away without but otherwise it's probably worth using something to protect the lower part of the young tree trunks. I had a few trees damaged and one oak tree whip killed by them. I found some unused drainage pipe that I cut into suitable lengths that did the job of protecting the tees here once I noticed the problem.

CelticRambler · 06-12-2020 4:04pm

Pipe-insulation (the foam type, split along the length) is also very handy for protecting vulnerable trunks.

jamesf85 · 06-12-2020 9:33pm

I’m actually in a similar place OP. Recently bought a house and the driveway sorround are pretty bare. I’m thinking of placing a row of trees either side of my drive way to provide a bit of cover to the house from the road. Thinking silver bitch and arbutus unedo with 1m spacing betwen them. Not sure if they’d look good together?

looksee · 07-12-2020 12:07am

I think they would, the airy silvery transparent birches contrasting with the solid dark green of the arbutus would be good. Especially if you trim up the branches of the birches to make sure they are clear stemmed trees, and keep the arbutus mildly under control - not necessarily clipped into harsh shapes.

DonalB1 · 07-12-2020 12:32am

looksee wrote: »

I think they would, the airy silvery transparent birches contrasting with the solid dark green of the arbutus would be good. Especially if you trim up the branches of the birches to make sure they are clear stemmed trees, and keep the arbutus mildly under control - not necessarily clipped into harsh shapes.

I would have thought the same but was going to wait for the more experience gardners to answer.

Honestly, the people on here are so incredibly helpful

baaba maal · 07-12-2020 10:11am

Just to say OP, Future Forests website will be reopened next Sunday, updated with all the winter stock- well worth having a look at it as they deliver and the stock (in my experience) is invariably good.

DonalB1 · 07-12-2020 10:47am

baaba maal wrote: »

Just to say OP, Future Forests website will be reopened next Sunday, updated with all the winter stock- well worth having a look at it as they deliver and the stock (in my experience) is invariably good.

I was on their website yesterday and they were open at 3pm despite saying they weren't opening until 8pm, now it's closed again until next Sunday.

Best Trees or Mix of Trees for Roadside/Driveway

Comments