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Applying Week in Hand after 10 Years

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  • 29-06-2020 6:58pm
    #1
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭


    So the owner of the company I work at has suddenly decided all employees will be subjected to working a week in hand which some companies do when you first start there. He has told us no one will be paid in 5 weeks time to make up for this, I believe no one here worked a week in hand when first starting. Wages are paid on a Friday so if you worked, you got paid.

    Someone moaned at him about wages being late and as revenge he's doing this.

    Some people are there 20 odd years while the majority of staff have been there less than 5 years due to expansion.

    Is this allowed? Can't find anything online about it. There's nothing in my contract about this.


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    #2
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,028 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    If he did pay you a week in hand from day 1, usually that only comes into play when an employee is leaving. Ie they don't get paid for the last week.
    Bizarre.

    To thine own self be true



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    #3
    thefa
    Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭thefa


    Would have thought a change to your pay terms would be a change to your contract and have to be agreed by employer and employees. Employer should have sorted contracts. If not, then that’s something to point out but the precedent is there that he’s changing it. Referencing how other companies pay new employees is not a justification to change it up.

    Just something to bear in mind, are you sure he is changing this as revenge? Would seem like poor form and if he has been late paying prior to trying to get an additional week of cashflow, it would make me think the business might be having cash difficulties.


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    #4
    scwazrh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭scwazrh


    I’m surprised there is any business that don’t pay staff on a back week.Its the normal be it fortnightly or monthly .You work Monday to Sunday and get paid The following Thursday / Friday if its weekly.


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    #5
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    thefa wrote: »
    Would have thought a change to your pay terms would be a change to your contract and have to be agreed by employer and employees. Employer should have sorted contracts. If not, then that’s something to point out but the precedent is there that he’s changing it. Referencing how other companies pay new employees is not a justification to change it up.

    Just something to bear in mind, are you sure he is changing this as revenge? Would seem like poor form and if he has been late paying prior to trying to get an additional week of cashflow, it would make me think the business might be having cash difficulties.
    Yeah, he's an asshole. He's using the excuse that payroll are having cashflow and recording problems due to a new clock-in system that was recently installed so this is needed but we all know this is bull.

    Company is doing fine, wasn't affected by Covid19 at all, in fact, more staff were employed during the last 4 months.

    I will have to shoot an email off the WRC and see what they say because I can't find a definitive answer.


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    #6
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    So, this actually came to fruition yesterday. No wages this week. I was not informed about this. Lots of rumours and hearsay among staff but nothing official from management or the owner.

    I emailed payroll to ask why I wasnt paid.

    Response: From Monday 3rd August the new system is in operation where we are all
    paid one week in lieu.

    The week Monday 3rd August - Sunday 9th August will be paid on Friday
    14th August

    I was confused so asked was I getting a double week next Friday.

    Response: I will deal with this next week.

    So left with no wages for the weekend. Lovely.

    Surely this isn't allowed?


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    #7
    Wesser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    I dont know if you can just email the WRC and they tell you the answer.... not sure thats how it works.....


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    #8
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    Wesser wrote: »
    I dont know if you can just email the WRC and they tell you the answer.... not sure thats how it works.....
    Correct. They basically said they this is an internal matter until I actually make a complaint.

    That's the nuclear option. I don't want to push that button yet until I know the full story.

    I just wish they had said something, if they are having cashflow problems, arrangements could've been made but nothing, silence. That's what annoyed me most.


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    #9
    scwazrh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭scwazrh


    Lundstram wrote: »
    So, this actually came to fruition yesterday. No wages this week. I was not informed about this. Lots of rumours and hearsay among staff but nothing official from management or the owner.

    I emailed payroll to as why I wasnt paid.

    Response: From Monday 3rd August the new system is in operation where we are all
    paid one week in lieu.

    The week Monday 3rd August - Sunday 9th August will be paid on Friday
    14th August

    I was confused so asked was I getting a double week next Friday.

    Response: I will deal with this next week.

    So left with no wages for the weekend. Lovely.

    Surely this isn't allowed?

    A back week or week in hand , whichever you want to call it is the norm. Getting paid at the end of the week for the current week used to be done for people getting cash in hand but not from above board employers . Even the revenue paye returns systems are set up on a back week basis.i don’t see how this is your employer getting “revenge “ as you put it .Some jobs pay on a monthly basis

    You’ve had 5 weeks notice that this was going to happen so It’s not exactly a surprise to you.


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    #10
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    scwazrh wrote: »
    A back week or week in hand , whichever you want to call it is the norm. Getting paid at the end of the week for the current week used to be done for people getting cash in hand but not from above board employers . Even the revenue paye returns systems are set up on a back week basis.i don’t see how this is your employer getting “revenge “ as you put it .Some jobs pay on a monthly basis

    You’ve had 5 weeks notice that this was going to happen so It’s not exactly a surprise to you.
    There was rumours of this 5 weeks ago from employees but not a peep from a manager or the owner.

    A back week is usually applied when starting a job, not 10 years and 2 months later. In some cases, 25 years.

    Are they not obliged to inform you in writing if altering your wages?


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    #11
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    Lundstram wrote: »
    There was rumours of this 5 weeks ago from employees but not a peep from a manager or the owner.

    Your opening line in your OP says the owner informed you it was happening?


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    #12
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    Midnight_EG wrote: »
    Your opening line in your OP says the owner informed you it was happening?
    He told a few office staff and it trickled down via rumours. 90% of staff were not told directly.


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    #13
    scwazrh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭scwazrh


    Lundstram wrote: »
    There was rumours of this 5 weeks ago from employees but not a peep from a manager or the owner.

    A back week is usually applied when starting a job, not 10 years and 2 months later. In some cases, 25 years.

    Are they not obliged to inform you in writing if altering your wages?

    If your employer didn’t pre advise you of the change then they are in the wrong .They can’t just change your payment terms as they please but you did say in your Op that “he “ had told you.

    Any change to work or pay can happen at any stage provided it is pre advised , discussed , correctly and legally implemented .

    And yes my understanding is that employers are legally bound to advise you of a change to payment


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    #14
    FluffPiece
    Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭FluffPiece


    So the owner of the company I work at has suddenly decided all employees will be subjected to working a week in hand which some companies do when you first start there. He has told us no one will be paid in 5 weeks time to make up for this.


    You can't claim to not have been told when this is your opening post.


    It sucks, but back then I'd have been tightening the belt a bit to ensure I could cover for a week. I'd not be happy in your shoes either and would have thought a new contract would have to be issued as it's a change in terms of payment


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    #15
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    FluffPiece wrote: »
    So the owner of the company I work at has suddenly decided all employees will be subjected to working a week in hand which some companies do when you first start there. He has told us no one will be paid in 5 weeks time to make up for this.


    You can't claim to not have been told when this is your opening post.


    It sucks, but back then I'd have been tightening the belt a bit to ensure I could cover for a week. I'd not be happy in your shoes either and would have thought a new contract would have to be issued as it's a change in terms of payment
    It took them 9 years to furnish me with my orignal contract so I'm not holding my breath for the updated version.

    I can cover for a week no problem but still this is not right. And yes, I am annoyed.


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    #16
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,717 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    scwazrh wrote: »
    A back week or week in hand , whichever you want to call it is the norm.

    That's not been my experience. The only time I experienced it was when I was temping with weekly timesheets, so they couldn't know how many hours to pay until the week was over.


    OP, I'd be concerned about the business's financial viability if he had to do that. I'd be job-hunting.


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    #17
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    That's not been my experience. The only time I experienced it was when I was temping with weekly timesheets, so they couldn't know how many hours to pay until the week was over.


    OP, I'd be concerned about the business's financial viability if he had to do that. I'd be job-hunting.
    They're not making much now from what I can gather but are still in a healthy position. The more I think about it, I think this is a genuine attempt to reset their payroll/tax affairs but they just went about it all wrong. A simple email or letter to all employees would have covered their arses but nothing. Silence, apart from a few rumours.

    I'll not be letting it go.


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