Mens Rights Thread

29-09-2019 1:17am

iptba wrote: »

I wonder what those who have complained about men-only spaces such as Portmarnock golf club (the Irish Equality Authority spent a lot of taxpayers' money on court cases) would say about something like this:

They will justify it on safety grounds.

iptba · 29-09-2019 1:26am

Deleted User wrote: »

They will justify it on safety grounds.

Okay, though some of the staff are male.

A brave person could argue that a men-only space could protect men from false allegations and the like.

Calhoun · 29-09-2019 1:30am

iptba wrote: »

Okay, though some of the staff are male.

A brave person could argue that a men-only space could protect men from false allegations and the like.

It only opened this year and if they feel they can keep open being woman only then all power to them.

Cutting off a big part of your demographic possibly could work if its the only one of its kind.

In time we more than likely will have men only spaces again, or unofficially men only. Once you let the cat out of the bag with segregation it will just naturally happen.

iptba · 04-10-2019 7:24pm

https://www.facebook.com/rushandluskcrime/posts/704938623316793
Nothing earth-shattering, but it occurred to me that people would be less inclined to answer the door to help a male. People talk about privileges males have but one could say this is a disadvantage males have or a privilege females have.

Similarly, it had also occurred to me previously that if someone's car broke down, they might be more likely to get people stopping to help if they were female.

Veritas Libertas · 05-10-2019 12:54am

iptba wrote: »

Nothing earth-shattering, but it occurred to me that people would be less inclined to answer the door to help a male. People talk about privileges males have but one could say this is a disadvantage males have or a privilege females have.

Similarly, it had also occurred to me previously that if someone's car broke down, they might be more likely to get people stopping to help if they were female.

I remember reading a study a few years ago(might be a bit more than that) about male vs female hitchhikers.

I'm guessing you can tell where this is going... average wait time was far less for ladies.
I guess this partly could be 'sexist' and partly that women are naturally less intimidating(smaller).

I'm sure it's the same answering the door or stopping for someone to help with their car.

iptba · 05-10-2019 4:27pm

From 2016:

I'm a man and I have an eating disorder. That's not a contradiction
John Paul Brammer
Wentworth Miller’s brave Facebook post reminded me how difficult it is for men to talk about mental health and their bodies. But it’s an issue for millions of us

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/01/eating-disorder-men-wentworth-miller

I decided the post this despite the fact that I'm not convinced feminism is required to discuss such issues. (He brings it up at one point)

iptba · 05-10-2019 5:00pm

148 seconds

Former England rugby player Paul Doran-Jones on Fathers4Justice and his experiences of the family courts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0AUH8cbMmA

iptba · 13-10-2019 2:47pm

An agony aunt column in the independent.ie.

Response is quite long, but I thought it was interesting to see men's groups being recommended.

https://www.independent.ie/life/family/ask-an-expert-my-overly-critical-mother-keeps-asking-me-about-my-sex-life-38581926.html

Belinda Kelly

October 11 2019 8:16 AM

Q: I am a 20-year-old male studying in college. I live alone with my parents and have discovered that my older sister has ended her relationship with our mother.

My mother hates my sister’s boyfriend and has said awful things to her about him. My mother is the life and soul of the party, spends all her time volunteering and helping others.

Everybody tells me she is a wonderful person. She tells everyone how proud she is of me, but privately, she can be critical. When I was younger, if I didn’t get full marks in my school exams, she would give me the silent treatment for days.

Whenever I get upset, she tells me I’m too sensitive, that I need to “man up”. She’s always says, “I’m your mother, I know everything that’s going on inside your head.” I couldn’t tell her which course I wanted to study because it wasn’t worth the hassle going against her choice for me.

She often asks about my sex life and mocks my father’s sexual abilities. He has always turned a blind eye to how she treats us. He is only interested in a quiet life and spends all his time working abroad or being in the pub. I don’t know how I feel about her anymore. I am so anxious and confused, it’s like I can’t breathe.

Authentic feelings threaten her, so she will humiliate and overpower you to deny them. This is tragic for you as there is no room for you to develop your own identity. When you tried to be authentic, by being vulnerable, your masculinity was shamed. When you show your feelings, she abandons and rejects you.

Trust and nurture your separate self

Find ways to support your emerging adult voice. You could start therapy to support your true self. This would help heal the wounded child and infant who wasn’t allow to express himself. Most colleges provide free counselling on campus. You could join a men’s group to find positive male role models. Check out mensgroups.ie. Draw a huge jar and write in it all the things that make you feel good about yourself, such as exercise, yoga or meeting friends.

iptba · 13-10-2019 7:30pm

I saw this on Twitter. Minister Doherty retweeted it without commenting on non-gender neutral language so I'm guessing she had no problem with it.

---

Christina Finn‏
Verified account @christinafinn8

Minister Regina Doherty announces measures in her brief: • ‘returnships’ for women who have taken time out of their careers to raise their families who the minister says have ‘bucketloads of experience’ and perhaps just lack the confidence and belief in themselves to return

---

In this case, the vast majority would be women, but still some men can take time out to care for their children or for another loved one, e.g. sick spouse or parent. It would be interesting to know whether they might be excluded in principle or in practice.

Calhoun · 13-10-2019 8:44pm

iptba wrote: »

I saw this on Twitter. Minister Doherty retweeted it without commenting on non-gender neutral language so I'm guessing she had no problem with it.

---

---

In this case, the vast majority would be women, but still some men can take time out to care for their children or for another loved one, e.g. sick spouse or parent. It would be interesting to know whether they might be excluded in principle or in practice.

Hopefully we won't have to worry about the good minister for too much longer. As the writting maybe on the wall for FG, particularly if its a soft brexit.

Also the next tweet in the chain mentions the below, so i think here she is trying to dial up the "vulnerable" community angle but it more than likely will be open to all.
"similar scheme for ex-offenders, Travellers and those from the Roma community to be announced also."

The other angle to look at is considering how bad the private company is for people on the dole this might not be a good thing.

tritium · 17-10-2019 8:12am

This one is interesting given it a) seems to be a recurring issue and b) seems to have gotten so little coverage when compared to for example the chibok kidnappings of a few years ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-50053725

It’s hard to believe that the fact it’s men and boys involved isn’t connected to the media silence here

Reviews and Books Galore · 17-10-2019 10:36am

The above reminds me of the focus on the Magdalene Laundries vs the factory schools.

Also, the Cyprus case is actually quite interesting as there is video evidence that it was consensual and the woman's statement was proven to be false based on digital data.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/14/rights-groups-urge-cyprus-to-drop-false-case-against-briton

What's very troubling is the amount of support that somebody who commited quite a horrific crime is getting for a very minor punishment. Especially as some of the participants might have been underage.

iptba · 17-10-2019 2:54pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

The above reminds me of the focus on the Magdalene Laundries vs the factory schools.

Also, the Cyprus case is actually quite interesting as there is video evidence that it was consensual and the woman's statement was proven to be false based on digital data.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/14/rights-groups-urge-cyprus-to-drop-false-case-against-briton

What's very troubling is the amount of support that somebody who commited quite a horrific crime is getting for a very minor punishment. Especially as some of the participants might have been underage.

Reminds me of this case, which was also in Cyprus, where an Irish woman falsely accused Irish men of raping her. She was convicted and got a four-month sentence but people lobbied for her release, and she was released early as I recall.

Rape claim woman in bid for jail pardon

Eire officials are trying to win a pardon for an Irish woman jailed in Cyprus after falsely claiming she had been raped.

Stephanos Stephanou, Eire's honorary counsul on the Mediterranean holiday island, is to make representations to the Cypriot attorney general on behalf of Dublin computer factory worker Annette Mangan, 22

She was jailed for four months on Friday after accusing three Irishmen, two of them soldiers on leave from United Nations peacekeeping duties in Lebanon, of raping her in an apartment in the resort of Ayia Napa.

She changed her story after being interviewed by detectives and said she had implicated the men because they allegedly took pictures of her in the nude.

Ms Mangan was on holiday in Cyprus with her sister Avril and two friends. They were all due to have flown home yesterday.

The Honorary Consul said he was confident a clemency appeal to Cyprus President Glafcos Clerides, via the attorney general, would be granted.

The move could be delayed until later this week, though, as both the President and the attorney are away in Geneva

Mr Stephanou said: ''There is no reason why the pardon should not be granted as I consider the sentence to be a little harsh.''

The consul added he had made arrangements to ensure Ms Mangan was as comfortable as possible and for her to be visited by her sister and their friends.

Sharp division of opinion on sentence in Cyprus rape case
Quote:

Sat, Aug 16, 1997

Annette Mangan sat in her prison cell in Nicosia Central Prison in Cyprus this week "confused and terrified", according to her sister. Back home, hours of air time were being devoted to the divisive question of whether or not the 22-year-old Dublin woman should be there at all.

Her accusation of rape against three young Irish soldiers and her subsequent retraction have been debated with a passion normally reserved for the build-up to abortion or divorce referendums. The four-month sentence she received when medical evidence contradicted her claim of rape has been criticised and justified in equal measures.

For the most part, female commentators are remaining cautious and adopting the "two sides to every story" approach. Anne O'Neill, a solicitor specialising in family law, has a firm view that the four-month sentence was "innappropriate".

"How has society been bettered by putting her in prison?" she asks.
Some might be inclined to believe there is more to the story than claims about lurid photographs taken in the aftermath of a drunken binge. But speaking on RTE radio this week, the father of one of the soldiers said police found nothing in film seized from the camera of the falsely accused men. Then there are others who just shake their heads at Mangan, who in their eyes has dragged the Defence Forces and the country "through the mud".

These two separate factions are split right down the middle. Olive Braiden, director of the Rape Crisis Centre, was "amazed" by the number of people who vilified Mangan while commenting on the case. "I found it incredible that ordinary people were calling radio stations criticising her [Mangan's] behaviour on the night in question. As far as I can see a lot of it is to do with their set views on how a woman should behave," she says.

As the controversy unfolded, Braiden was presented as taking Mangan's side in the incident, but she claims her comments were taken out of context. "I always stressed that a false accusation was a very serious matter, that the whole episode was very damaging for the men involved, and damaging in that it may discourage others from reporting genuine cases of rape.

"But I thought the publicity about it was disproportionate to the actual incident. There are men in this country who have pleaded guilty to rape and have not served one day in prison," she says. "Where is the media furore over that?

"If what has been reported is true," she adds, "I think four months in prison was very harsh."

Tommy Spooner of the Men's Network and Resource Centre in Dublin, a co-ordinating body of 40 men's support groups around the country, does not agree. His view is typical of many who say Mangan does not deserve the presidential pardon it is understood she will receive.

"Four months is too lenient for what that young girl did," he says. "If a man had made such an accusation the retribution would have been much harsher." Spooner claims the law is weighted more in favour of women when a complaint of this nature is made. He has come across "several" examples of false accusations during the course of his work, he says.
If the Cyprus case had gone ahead, the lives of the three Irish soldiers would have been "destroyed", according to John Lucey, general secretary of PDFORRA, the representative body for enlisted men in the Defence Forces.

The fact that Mangan "had a few drinks, met this guy and went home with him" is "her own business", says Lucey. "In a way I feel sorry for her . . .but then again if she had stuck to her story she would have destroyed the lives of three young men. The Defence Forces enjoy great respect internationally. It would have been terrible for the country . . . but even with what's happened the mud will stick."

Those who display a sympathetic approach to the situation are interpreted as wholeheartedly condoning what Mangan did, says Noreen Byrne, chairwoman of the National Women's Council. "If you don't completely leap on the condemnation bandwagon then you are accused of being soft on her.

"To falsely accuse anyone of such a serious crime is unnacceptable. But the media coverage, all this talk about her state of undress, is part of her punishment. We shouldn't forget that she has to come home to all that."
False rape claims are "extremely rare", she says, citing an American study where only 2 per cent of claims were found to be false. "We should put this in perspective," she says.

Anne O'Neill acknowledges that the three Irish soldiers did not deserve to be accused of rape. "But my sympathy for them is tempered somewhat by the reports. They are being hailed as these brave lads, when really they deserve a major kick in the arse."

Meanwhile, says Olive Braiden, Annette Mangan will need to be handled delicately when she returns home. "She will need a lot of help and care from her friends and family when she comes back. Prison is a very high price to pay for what appears to have been a thoughtless and stupid mistake."

Reviews and Books Galore · 17-10-2019 3:00pm

"I found it incredible that ordinary people were calling radio stations criticising her [Mangan's] behaviour on the night in question. As far as I can see a lot of it is to do with their set views on how a woman should behave," she says.

I really wish men would stop backing down at accusations of sexism. It really is absurd how often that is used in an argument.

Wow, those qoutes really are sickening.

Edit: Honestly, things have to change and women have to regulate toxic female behaviour. It's quite simple as regulating false accuastions (at a micro level) and abusing men in public.

Pawwed Rig · 20-10-2019 3:57pm

Morons like this do Fathers no favours

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/features/learner-dad-as-long-as-other-people-gave-their-kids-sugar-we-assumed-we-didnt-have-a-problem-957801.html?fbclid=IwAR0o0nNUHdo9C0anj1SGxJ0qDJ01MwNP5uc0yrNdTinq9-2oL7SMJ75lGxU

Dope

Calhoun · 20-10-2019 7:14pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Morons like this do Fathers no favours

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/features/learner-dad-as-long-as-other-people-gave-their-kids-sugar-we-assumed-we-didnt-have-a-problem-957801.html?fbclid=IwAR0o0nNUHdo9C0anj1SGxJ0qDJ01MwNP5uc0yrNdTinq9-2oL7SMJ75lGxU

Dope

It's not just men it's women only people are legit stupid. Cannot remember which program it was but remember seeing kids having all their teeth pulled they had rotted so bad.

tritium · 21-10-2019 8:02am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Morons like this do Fathers no favours

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/features/learner-dad-as-long-as-other-people-gave-their-kids-sugar-we-assumed-we-didnt-have-a-problem-957801.html?fbclid=IwAR0o0nNUHdo9C0anj1SGxJ0qDJ01MwNP5uc0yrNdTinq9-2oL7SMJ75lGxU

Dope

It sounds like both parents are doing this tbh so I don’t see why the focus on the dad. It kind of comes across as another “dads are hopeless” article, rather unfairly imho

Pawwed Rig · 21-10-2019 8:05am

tritium wrote: »

It sounds like both parents are doing this tbh so I don’t see why the focus on the dad. It kind of comes across as another “dads are hopeless” article, rather unfairly imho

Yeah that was my point. Another hapless useless Dad story. Dad causes the problems and Mam solves them

iptba · 22-10-2019 2:05pm

Chef who asked for kiss after All-Ireland win awarded €17,500 for unfair dismissal
Avid GAA supporter had been sacked and accused of sexual harassment

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/chef-who-asked-for-kiss-after-all-ireland-win-awarded-17-500-for-unfair-dismissal-1.4059046

py2006 · 22-10-2019 3:30pm

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/chef-who-asked-for-kiss-after-all-ireland-win-awarded-17-500-for-unfair-dismissal-1.4059046

At least he didn't make a violent threat against....unlike her!

Calhoun · 22-10-2019 4:19pm

py2006 wrote: »

At least he didn't make a violent threat against....unlike her!

He was also quite stupid given that he had asked her out previously and she refused he should have taken the hint.

The company fundamentally acted badly regardless of the behavior from either participant.

One eyed Jack · 22-10-2019 4:48pm

py2006 wrote: »

At least he didn't make a violent threat against....unlike her!

Scraping the bottom of the barrel for that one py!

I’m the same as Calhoun above, guy was an idiot who should have taken the hint the first time. He was lucky to have gotten €17k out of it given his explanation was that -

He told the WRC that he had said “the wrong thing to the wrong person”.

I wouldn’t see anything wrong with it if she had given him a smack tbh :pac:

py2006 · 22-10-2019 4:55pm

I guess so.

He was an idiot for saying it. Although her reaction was OTT and his sacking for sexual harassment is a sad reflection on the society today.

If he threatened to slap her in the face after rejecting her advances would he be sacked?

22-10-2019 4:58pm

py2006 wrote: »

If he threatened to slap her in the face after rejecting her advances would he be sacked?

Probably arrested.

One eyed Jack · 22-10-2019 5:23pm

py2006 wrote: »

I guess so.

He was an idiot for saying it. Although her reaction was OTT and his sacking for sexual harassment is a sad reflection on the society today.

If he threatened to slap her in the face after rejecting her advances would he be sacked?

Meh, I dunno if her reaction was OTT, nor do I think his getting fired reflects anything upon society, particularly as he received €17k in compensation.

He probably would have been sacked too if he’d threatened to slap her in the face after rejecting her advances, I know I’d certainly sack him.

You’re describing a set of circumstances which didn’t happen though.

22-10-2019 5:30pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Meh, I dunno if her reaction was OTT, nor do I think his getting fired reflects anything upon society, particularly as he received €17k in compensation.

He probably would have been sacked too if he’d threatened to slap her in the face after rejecting her advances, I know I’d certainly sack him.

You’re describing a set of circumstances which didn’t happen though.

He's describing the same thing that happened, except with the genders reversed. The bloke gets sacked in both scenarios. Seems a little unfair. Thankfully the right decision was made, his ex employer was found guilty of unfair dismissal and this guy got his compensation.

Calhoun · 22-10-2019 5:35pm

Was it a real threat of violence or was it if you kissed me or pressure you to kiss me without permission i will "give you a smack".

We cannot tell what the situation would have been in reverse but what we do know is the company was at fault for not follow the right dismissal procedures.

This ain't the hill to die on for men's rights.

One eyed Jack · 22-10-2019 6:18pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He's describing the same thing that happened, except with the genders reversed. The bloke gets sacked in both scenarios. Seems a little unfair. Thankfully the right decision was made, his ex employer was found guilty of unfair dismissal and this guy got his compensation.

That’s what makes them two completely different scenarios.

I was never one for that whole ‘reverse the genders’ nonsense as though it in any way a reflection of reality. Consider for example the idea of a guy who had previously asked you out and you turned him down, then he came back looking for a kiss off you. I dunno about you but I’d be warning him I’ll knock him out if he tries anything like that again.

I wouldn’t feel the same way if it were a woman because I’m not into hitting women.

I’m guessing this was supposed to be some kind of a story about ‘gender equality’ anyway, not something I’ve ever given any heed to either.

Reviews and Books Galore · 23-10-2019 9:30am

I think the government body might be trying to stop these 'accuse and get ahead' situations. Although, it is strange that they actually picked a case that could be construed as harrasment

Reviews and Books Galore · 23-10-2019 10:48am

Lads, I think we have a hill to die on

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/texas-father-blocked-from-stopping-gender-transition-of-son-james-7-to-girl-called-luna

Padraig Mor · 23-10-2019 1:25pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Lads, I think we have a hill to die on

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/texas-father-blocked-from-stopping-gender-transition-of-son-james-7-to-girl-called-luna

Read about that the other day. Shocking stuff although I guess that makes me a bigot. Wanna know the best bit, which isn't mentioned in that article? The twins were created using IVF and an egg donor - she's not even biologically related to the poor kid! I can't confirm it, but I would presume the father in the case is actually the biological father.

Calhoun · 23-10-2019 2:44pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Lads, I think we have a hill to die on

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/texas-father-blocked-from-stopping-gender-transition-of-son-james-7-to-girl-called-luna

I don't think it's a hill just for men to die on but for society. Luckily in Ireland we still have protection for children under the age of 18 and we should fight to keep those in place .

Reviews and Books Galore · 23-10-2019 6:22pm

Calhoun wrote: »

I don't think it's a hill just for men to die on but for society. Luckily in Ireland we still have protection for children under the age of 18 and we should fight to keep those in place .

Sadly, I have noticed that the girls have been very quiet about this kind of like the false accusation trial in Cyprus. I guess if they speak out against it they can face social isolation, being seen as racist/sexist/lower class and perhaps lose their jobs.

Imo, I'm not even sure calling this child abuse is enough. It's probably worse than FGM as it's total chemical castration.

Calhoun · 23-10-2019 6:27pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Sadly, I have noticed that the girls have been very quiet about this kind of like the false accusation trial in Cyprus. I guess if they speak out against it they can face social isolation, being seen as racist/sexist/lower class and perhaps lose their jobs.

Imo, I'm not even sure calling this child abuse is enough. It's probably worse than FGM as it's total chemical castration.

Not really they are the ones more often than not being abused by laws around trans freedoms.

You only have to look at the likes of the Jessica Yanic in Canada or the recent more to remove the venus logo from tampons as things being forced upon them.

Reviews and Books Galore · 23-10-2019 9:01pm

Eh, this is up to men to start complaining and start 'rocking the boat'.

24-10-2019 4:10am

Calhoun wrote: »

He was also quite stupid given that he had asked her out previously and she refused he should have taken the hint.

Admittedly I'm in China, and haven't been in Ireland for two years, but seriously?

He asked her previously to go to the cinema with him. Easily construed as a gesture towards friendship, and later asked for a kiss on the cheek. The cheek. In a joking manner. Hardly what I would consider even remotely grounds for sexual harassment. There's no mention of any body language or verbal language to suggest a sexual angle.

Growing up in Ireland both offers would have been thrown off as friendly joking behavior. Now? Dismissal.

This kind of attitude really needs to squashed, and a return towards the days when Irish people had some degree of common sense.

H3llR4iser · 24-10-2019 3:21pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Lads, I think we have a hill to die on

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/texas-father-blocked-from-stopping-gender-transition-of-son-james-7-to-girl-called-luna

I'm probably going to hell for this, well, I was most likely gonna end up there anyway to be honest, but...without any more information, this reads to me like a "mommy really wanted a girl and now has decided to make one" scenario. Way too early to decide for the child.

Calhoun · 24-10-2019 3:55pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I'm probably going to hell for this, well, I was most likely gonna end up there anyway to be honest, but...without any more information, this reads to me like a "mommy really wanted a girl and now has decided to make one" scenario. Way too early to decide for the child.

In allot of cases from the outside it looks like projection.

Sleepy · 24-10-2019 4:26pm

From the article, it really looks like you're correct H3llR4iser:

Expert witnesses expressed doubt that James was fully convinced that he was inherently female in testimony last week. "There is still some fluidity in his thinking," said Dr. Benjamin Albritton in sworn testimony. "Neither child appears to be depressed, anxious or aggressive ... He [James] gave no indications of other significant psychological difficulties."

Un****ingbelievable carry on from the court.

Calhoun · 24-10-2019 4:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Admittedly I'm in China, and haven't been in Ireland for two years, but seriously?

He asked her previously to go to the cinema with him. Easily construed as a gesture towards friendship, and later asked for a kiss on the cheek. The cheek. In a joking manner. Hardly what I would consider even remotely grounds for sexual harassment. There's no mention of any body language or verbal language to suggest a sexual angle.

Growing up in Ireland both offers would have been thrown off as friendly joking behavior. Now? Dismissal.

This kind of attitude really needs to squashed, and a return towards the days when Irish people had some degree of common sense.

In the age of metoo you are stupid if you mix business and pleasure in the first instance but second the fact that he was let go for sexual harassment means she took it as a sexual angle.

Things have changed since we grew up am I happy about all the changes? No of course not but you got to also remember there was many an arsehole who abused the way it was in the past.

Its been established he shouldn't have been dismissed for it hence the award.

py2006 · 26-10-2019 12:11pm

Apparently Nick Jonas was groped by a female fan while he was performing on stage. Not the same level of furore or coverage if it was a female star of course.

26-10-2019 9:13pm

Calhoun wrote: »

In the age of metoo you are stupid if you mix business and pleasure in the first instance but second the fact that he was let go for sexual harassment means she took it as a sexual angle.

Of course she took it as a sexual angle. It's the best way for a woman to damage a man in western society. Just as the metoo claims did. Unproven claims without any validation from any legal authority. Any other claim would be properly investigated, whereas with sexual harassment in a workplace, everyone tiptoes around the subject.

Things have changed since we grew up am I happy about all the changes? No of course not but you got to also remember there was many an arsehole who abused the way it was in the past.

Draconian measures will not remove sexual harassment in the workplace, especially since they're not applied even remotely on an equal basis to both genders.

Sexual harassment laws for the workplace were perfectly fine in most industries over a decade ago. Instead, the laws (and company rule guidelines) have been pushed into the area of paranoia, and witch hunts.

I worked in management within Finance, which has a heavily skewed ratio of women as opposed to men. Sexual harassment claims came from the women, but were often noted by management where the woman was the aggressor.. but the culture prevented most men from either claiming harassment, or even seeing it as harassment. It was the same when I moved from Finance into third level Education.

The system needs to revert to when sexual harassment was an issue to be dealt with logically rather than emotionally.. The fear by management and companies to rule in favor of men against stupid claims is an emotional response. Fear. Not rational justice.

Its been established he shouldn't have been dismissed for it hence the award.

And his career is still damaged along with his personal reputation.

But I'm more concerned that cases like this won't be used to re-evaluate how badly the system is completely skewed against men. The fact that the man was even fired shows just how biased society has become.

Calhoun · 26-10-2019 9:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course she took it as a sexual angle. It's the best way for a woman to damage a man in western society. Just as the metoo claims did. Unproven claims without any validation from any legal authority. Any other claim would be properly investigated, whereas with sexual harassment in a workplace, everyone tiptoes around the subject.

Draconian measures will not remove sexual harassment in the workplace, especially since they're not applied even remotely on an equal basis to both genders.

Sexual harassment laws for the workplace were perfectly fine in most industries over a decade ago. Instead, the laws (and company rule guidelines) have been pushed into the area of paranoia, and witch hunts.

I worked in management within Finance, which has a heavily skewed ratio of women as opposed to men. Sexual harassment claims came from the women, but were often noted by management where the woman was the aggressor.. but the culture prevented most men from either claiming harassment, or even seeing it as harassment. It was the same when I moved from Finance into third level Education.

The system needs to revert to when sexual harassment was an issue to be dealt with logically rather than emotionally.. The fear by management and companies to rule in favor of men against stupid claims is an emotional response. Fear. Not rational justice.

And his career is still damaged along with his personal reputation.

But I'm more concerned that cases like this won't be used to re-evaluate how badly the system is completely skewed against men. The fact that the man was even fired shows just how biased society has become.

We don't know the context in how he said it or how she took it. When you work in a professional environment their are standards you must adhere to and he left himself open.

Yes men have been messed around because of metoo which is why i do not like it but as i have said already right now i would advise every man to be careful in their workplace. We are just into this new phase of bull**** and unless we see the victims increasing dramatically nothing will be done.

I cannot comment on the rest, i have not experienced that in my working history.

27-10-2019 5:43am

Calhoun wrote: »

We don't know the context in how he said it or how she took it. When you work in a professional environment their are standards you must adhere to and he left himself open.

Yes men have been messed around because of metoo which is why i do not like it but as i have said already right now i would advise every man to be careful in their workplace. We are just into this new phase of bull**** and unless we see the victims increasing dramatically nothing will be done.

I cannot comment on the rest, i have not experienced that in my working history.

Being careful? So... zero interpersonal contact with a female... because that's essentially what you're suggesting. Which leads to other forms of claims by women about discrimination because male managers will prefer to hire males to avoid being targeted.

Calhoun · 27-10-2019 3:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Being careful? So... zero interpersonal contact with a female... because that's essentially what you're suggesting. Which leads to other forms of claims by women about discrimination because male managers will prefer to hire males to avoid being targeted.

What i suggest is taking a chill pill and calm down. You seem to be letting that experience in finance really impact your ability for rational thinking.

What i also suggest is a bit of cop on and professionalism from men who are working, don't mix business and pleasure and unless the place is really out for men you will be ok.

If we are going to read so much into this particular issue, i would also throw out that the place had issue with the chef and was looking for an excuse to get rid of them which they thought they had and why they got rid of him so fast.

I havent brought it up yet but its as logical as a grand feminist conspiracy in his workplace to take out all men.

27-10-2019 5:22pm

Calhoun wrote: »

What i suggest is taking a chill pill and calm down. You seem to be letting that experience in finance really impact your ability for rational thinking.

Nope. Nothing I posted was emotional rather than rational. The fact that you're suggesting that it was...

What i also suggest is a bit of cop on and professionalism from men who are working, don't mix business and pleasure and unless the place is really out for men you will be ok.

Professionalism from men? Not from women? They are working in an environment with both genders. Some patience and understanding would be more appropriate.

As for me, I'll be ok, because I no longer work in the west. The changes in laws and social perception regarding male vs female behavior was a definite reason why I left. Not because I ever considered harassing a female, but because of the sheer number of false claims made even twenty years ago.

If we are going to read so much into this particular issue, i would also throw out that the place had issue with the chef and was looking for an excuse to get rid of them which they thought they had and why they got rid of him so fast.

I havent brought it up yet but its as logical as a grand feminist conspiracy in his workplace to take out all men.

Read into it? I'm going by the article. He asked her to the cinema, once. No further invitations. No nasty sexual comments or anything. He kissed her on the cheek a few days later while celebrating. Again, no sexual comments or suggestions of initiating anything more personal. There's no need to extrapolate extra supposed information because the article is quite clear as to what happened.

There is a movement to place men in the dog house in every situation where a female cries foul. To suggest otherwise is to ignore the changes that have occured within the last twenty years in Western workplaces. There are plenty of examples where males are being marginalised in society and females being pushed to the forefront. This thread and others clearly show this, but you would try to downplay it.

Calhoun · 27-10-2019 5:47pm

Listen if you want to come across as a stereotypical enraged MRA head then off with you. Getting irrationally angry over things will only damage the cause like it already is.

I am not really interested in arguing further with you because we are on the same side of the fence but our reactions differ to it.

27-10-2019 6:36pm

Calhoun wrote: »

Listen if you want to come across as a stereotypical enraged MRA head then off with you. Getting irrationally angry over things will only damage the cause like it already is.

Hilarious. If i don't agree with you, then I'm becoming irrationally angry and should be associated with the MRA. Awesome. :rolleyes:

I am not really interested in arguing further with you because we are on the same side of the fence but our reactions differ to it.

Perhaps, although I doubt it. You're the way I was twenty years ago. Weather the storm, keep your head down and common sense will prevail. Alas, common sense has been dying along with equality.

Thankfully, a reaction by men to all this BS is coming... but it does need support in the form of highlighting the double standards, and inequalities that males face.

Calhoun · 27-10-2019 7:18pm

Nothing to do with not agreeing with me I don't care if your opinion differs it's drawing conclusions on my motives and implying that I am downplaying things ECT because I am not fire and pitchforks.

Probably not depending on how far down the rabbit hole you have gone. I believe in equal rights for all and that we do have a problem with a strong anti male agenda in society.

However I also know that things are nuanced and acting like a hardline feminist would just become the thing I hate.

Also when is the council of men getting together to go on the attack ?

iptba · 27-10-2019 8:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

He asked her to the cinema, once. No further invitations. No nasty sexual comments or anything. He kissed her on the cheek a few days later while celebrating. Again, no sexual comments or suggestions of initiating anything more personal.

Did he kiss her? This is the heading:

Chef who asked for kiss after All-Ireland win awarded €17,500 for unfair dismissal

Mens Rights Thread

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