Career related issues

LegacyUser · 20-10-2019 7:12am #1

I suppose that this could be more suited to the accountancy forum but I wanted to post it here first just to get more of a general response.

I finished my degree a few years ago and since then have had several professional jobs for about one year each excluding my current job and a period of around 6 months when I studied full time for my professional exams.

I worked very hard when doing my degree and was very focused. Since I started working my work would probably below average quality and it would take me too long to get things done. To compensate I would work very long hours. Quiet periods 50 - 60, busier 60+ hours. I would usually be the first one in and the last to leave. A 12 - 13 hour day would be normal for me.

This has led to the situation that I have not yet passed all my professional exams which has in effect stalled my career.

I have been getting very down recently as I am constantly seeing my peers from college get qualified, big raises, promotions and yet here I am working exceptionally hard and staying the same.

One option for me would be to leave my current place even thought I do really like where I am and then study exams full time. With the exam pressure off me I could then focus fully on the work and I think I could build it up to a more acceptable standard.

I suppose just looking for advise. Friends and family are telling me to give up and do something else. I know I will not ever reach the levels of people from college but if I could get qualified I think I could make some kind of life out of accountancy.

ncmc · 20-10-2019 10:33am

It’s tricky to answer this without knowing more. Why would you say your work is below average quality? Is it that you find it hard to focus on the work and procrastinate or is it that you find the work too difficult? If it’s the former, you could maybe try and learn some skills for working more efficiently. If it’s the latter, then you may want to consider your career path. If the level of work is too difficult, maybe you could look at an alternative field of accountancy. I should think you should try and prioritise finishing your exams. Don’t worry about what your friends and fellow students are doing, everyone does things in their own time and their own way. It doesn’t make you inferior to them.

Princess Calla · 20-10-2019 10:53am

What are your excel skills like?

I've seen people slave over spreadsheets when abit of Excel knowledge cut hours off their work.

Does your job run "masterclasses " where you can do an intermediate /advanced course...usually inhouse training. You'd be surprised at what shortcuts you can learn.

I don't know what type of accountancy your doing, but the majority it very repetitive, month end, quarter end, half year and year end. Generally speaking it's the same transactions and reports over and over again. After a few months I would expect at least 85% ticked off fairly rapidly at each period.

Have you talked to your team leader at all or even colleagues?

The professional exams are difficult I think especially coming in from a degree. You still need to get your experience signed off too, so I'd be working on that along with the exams.

You'll get there it takes alot of work though.

coffee_cake · 20-10-2019 11:25am

I'm in a similar field. there is a massive danger that if you take time off to study, you think you'll spend all your time studying, but you won't. there'll be tomorrow, and tomorrow, and without a routine and structure it could end up a complete waste.

I agree with the poster above - i have seen people slaving over spreadsheets for hours and helped them with a few excel formulae that turned the job into an hour max. i would say concentrate on 'there has to be a better way of doing this' and thinking about the work before you start it.

i would also wonder why you think your work is poor quality. has anyone said it to you? have you been told you're performing poorly? if not, i would take a more selfish approach and cut down your hours to focus on exams. if your peer from college are qualifying, i would bet they are not working 60 hours.

cocker5 · 20-10-2019 12:18pm

Careerdifficulty wrote: »

I suppose that this could be more suited to the accountancy forum but I wanted to post it here first just to get more of a general response.

I finished my degree a few years ago and since then have had several professional jobs for about one year each excluding my current job and a period of around 6 months when I studied full time for my professional exams.

I worked very hard when doing my degree and was very focused. Since I started working my work would probably below average quality and it would take me too long to get things done. To compensate I would work very long hours. Quiet periods 50 - 60, busier 60+ hours. I would usually be the first one in and the last to leave. A 12 - 13 hour day would be normal for me.

This has led to the situation that I have not yet passed all my professional exams which has in effect stalled my career.

I have been getting very down recently as I am constantly seeing my peers from college get qualified, big raises, promotions and yet here I am working exceptionally hard and staying the same.

One option for me would be to leave my current place even thought I do really like where I am and then study exams full time. With the exam pressure off me I could then focus fully on the work and I think I could build it up to a more acceptable standard.

I suppose just looking for advise. Friends and family are telling me to give up and do something else. I know I will not ever reach the levels of people from college but if I could get qualified I think I could make some kind of life out of accountancy.

My advice to you would be concentrate on getting your exams .. without them in accountancy your will only earn so much / get so far. Give yourself a time line to have them all finished and try ur best to stick to this..

please keep in mind not everyone is an amazing accountant .. some are good .. some are ok.. doesn’t make either right or wrong .. lots of ok accountants have good careers / good earnings.

It also opens door to other careers .. once you gotten your exams and done 5-10 years PQE you never know what are you might go into.

Get the exams..

qwerty13 · 20-10-2019 1:48pm

I actually think I’d focus on work skills first, then professional ones. I thought the advice re excel skills in a previous post was excellent - while I’m not in accounting, my area would use excel heavily, and really getting to know it can seriously cut the time you spend on things.

In our place, there’s a ‘tips & tricks’ spreadsheet, with loads of relevant stuff for excel. Google is a good resource, but a bit vague sometimes. Or not specific enough.

Would you consider paying for an advanced excel course yourself? I know it would be better if work paid, but if it gave you a time saving edge, it would be worth it. Be careful to research the course first though. I’ve gone on a few work paid courses that were worse than useless.

I believe if you get the work stuff sorted, you’ll need to spend less hours, have a higher profile in work, and more time to spend on exams.

20-10-2019 2:00pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm in a similar field. there is a massive danger that if you take time off to study, you think you'll spend all your time studying, but you won't. there'll be tomorrow, and tomorrow, and without a routine and structure it could end up a complete waste

A project partner of mine had this very mindset. And he knew that he was not able to proceed to degree year from diploma year because of this. And that's what happened with him. And me too. I take ownership of this to this day.

Op

don't go down this route.

Princess Calla · 20-10-2019 2:50pm

Back again

I'm going to assume excel is your issue, accounting exams aren't easy so I definitely think you have the aptitude for your job.

I also think it would be no harm to throw up a post in the accounting forum to see what other people use.

For me: love them or loathe them pivot tables /dynamic pivot tables. There is also a function in them called "show pages" this was a game changer for me. If copying from pivots make sure you paste special values to "kill" off the pivot so you don't inadvertently send extra data especially if confidential.

"vlookup " function but be careful as all your data needs to be in the same format.

"If" formula

Conditional formatting

Replace/replace all.

Macros.... If you work regular imports of raw data that you then break into more user friendly reports etc, you can record your steps in a macro. Then next time you import data you just need to run macros and excel does all the work for you....... It's great but does get bugs so make sure you keep a record of the steps you are hoping to process.

Hyperlinks great for zipping through large reports.

Access databases also have their uses, so too do dashboards.

That is definitely not an exhaustive list but what springs to mind.

tara73 · 20-10-2019 4:21pm

Careerdifficulty wrote: »

I worked very hard when doing my degree and was very focused. Since I started working my work would probably below average quality and it would take me too long to get things done. To compensate I would work very long hours. Quiet periods 50 - 60, busier 60+ hours. I would usually be the first one in and the last to leave. A 12 - 13 hour day would be normal for me.

are you sure the highlighted is really the case ?

there's not one job where I couldn't observe this scenario: there's the employee (unfortunately almost always women) with low self esteem, who's insecure and never sure about their work, never thinks they've done enough, although they're great and very often indeed it's the opposite they're better and more efficient than most of the other colleagues.

So what do bosses/teamleader think and do: GREAT! there she is, the one who will work for two and saves me the money to employ another one. And off they go and dump the work on your desk. To make sure it's not coming to your mind there's something wrong going on, it often also goes hand in hand with verbal manipulative strategies to put you down, i.e telling you being too slow or pointing out mistakes etc.

please check for it, it happens too often!
It happened to me too when I was younger/your age. They, for sure, like to do this sh** with people who just graduated and are in their first job, because you are the vulnerable ones, not yet sure about your real skills.

Another day · 20-10-2019 5:22pm

Working those hours and trying to study is lunacy! Try cutting back to reasonable hours, you may surprise yourself in what you get done. Your brain must be exhausted from the concentration required and the hours you are doing so more rest would probably be very beneficial to you. Keep going like that and you will burn out.

DubCount · 20-10-2019 5:30pm

OP. Its not unusual for trainee accountants to work over normal hours, especially in busy periods. However, extra hours are often allowed for in extra study leave before exams. Professional accountancy exams are difficult, even for someone who is talented and hard working. If you are missing lectures or not getting enough study time from your employer, you might be better off looking for a new job. Larger firms are usually better for giving extra study leave, or maybe look into doing ACCA or CIMA through industry (where the extra hours are normally less of an issue). Continue to focus on your final goal (becoming a qualified accountant), and figure the best way to get there. Its a good career and its worth the heartache to qualify. Good luck.

LegacyUser · 20-10-2019 7:01pm

Hey guys OP here. Appreciate all the responses so far. I will try to give some more details but I have to be careful to not give too much away.

Work wise it has already been small practices. I have never worked in industry. If I am being honest it would likely suit me better. I find practice difficult at times because I am constantly switching between different clients who have widely different businesses, records, needs etc.

A few responses have suggested maybe my excel skills need to improve. Of course that would be beneficial but it is not the major time drain. I am pretty good at getting to the information I need it is normally how to account for it that I can get stuck on. Having said that if I could get the exams I would put work into my excel skills because it is important.

In relation to if I went down the full time route. I would be doing two subjects that would have between them 10 to 15 hours a week of lectures. One of the lecturers gives a daily study plan that takes between 1 - 2 hours and there is multiple mocks. Also when I don't have work on my mind when I study I study. If I say I am going to do a block of three hours that is what I do no coffee breaks no phone no Facebook. When you factor in how much I want to get these exams and I would be operating in a structured environment I think it would work well. I did do it previously between jobs and in fairness I was pretty successful then.

In relation to my current place they do really care about me. They have tried before to get my to ease up on the hours. But especially at busy times there is so much work to be done I have to put in the hours to keep on top of it.

mr_edge_to_you · 20-10-2019 9:56pm

Hi OP

I'm a qualified accountant. Like you I found studying and working incredibly tough. It took me a long time after college to get my exams - 7 years. In the early stages of my career I too saw many people pass me by as they completed their exams. On more than one occasion I was told we can't pay you more than a qualified accountant (despite doing the same work).

First up, a professional qualification is a huge step up from a bog standard degree. Unless someone has gone that extra distance, they won't understand. If it was easy everyone would have one.

I trained in industry. This meant that I got paid about 30% more than trainees in practice. However, I got very little support - I had a job and responsibilities that came first. Study support was secondary. In terms of study leave, I got one day study leave plus the day of the exam. That was it! I so had to pay for my tuition and fees upfront and was reimbursed upon passing. Industry v practice - there's pros and cons on both sides.

Initially I was trying to study myself through distance learning. I would describe myself as an average student - I did ok in college but unfortunately one poor result in my weakest subject brought my degree down to a mere pass. It was only when I moved to Dublin that I was able to actually attend live-lectures, the webcast thing was only just kicking off at the time. To this day I perform better in the structured environment of an actual taught class. Are you attending lectures or working on it yourself? Some of the texts and manuals are massive reams of paper, while it is great to know it all, it's not necessarily going to help you pass your exams.

To date, how have your results been? The reason I ask is because I had a couple of close calls - in the 45%-49% range. I then had a lecturer that actually taught us how pass a paper. He taught us how to interpret a question, analyse the marks on offer, prepare an answer plan and manage our time.

I have also been in roles where'd I'd be clocking up 50+ hours a week. When you're studying, you've got to be disciplined. I too was in roles where the hours were regularly in excess of 50hrs a week. Its tough but sometimes it's got to be done. As I said, I found the taught lectures best for me. While finding time for study was tough I made damn sure that I got in to my lectures in the evening and at weekends. You've got to make sacrifices - 6 Nations weekends were tough!! I also made sure that any homework assignments were completed as a minimum. An hour's studying were a bonus!

When I finally passed, I can honestly say that the main reason I got them completed was because I became more honest with myself. I put my head down and worked my socks off for 2 years get my finals done.

To summarise:
1) Review your current approach.
2) Identify what learning/study methods work for you.
3) Try and apply some discipline to allow for college/study. Bring your materials to work and pop into a meeting room for an hour before you go home or during lunch hour.
4) Manage your workload. I'm a firm believer in doing 1 exam, focus on it and pass it. It's tough trying to juggle multiple papers. I know on occasion that you need to sit 2/3 but avoid where possible. It's a marathon, not a sprint!
5) Stick at it - it's a great qualification to have and it opens many doors!

mr_edge_to_you · 20-10-2019 10:04pm

DubCount wrote: »

maybe look into doing ACCA or CIMA through industry (where the extra hours are normally less of an issue)

I can assure you that this isn't the case. I'm CIMA qualified and many of my friends are ACCA qualfied. Industry training is completely different than practice. I know lots of Big 4 trained ACAs and they have no idea how industry trained people had time to study and do exams, those who've trained in smaller private practices say the same thing.

JeffKenna · 20-10-2019 10:04pm

Hi OP,

I'm a bit worried that you're working in practice yet have been through several different jobs during your training period. This wouldn't be the norm. Is there a particular pattern as to why you're leaving? Its always very difficult starting a new job so you're investing a lot of time settling into a new place, getting to know people and procedures when this would be better spent focusing on studies.

I've never worked in a small practice but from what anyone told me it's all about organisational skills. Working on several different clients each day can be challenging so if you could get some help on how to structure your work and organise the files I think it would help a lot.

Best of luck!

tara73 · 21-10-2019 8:32am

Careerdifficulty wrote: »

In relation to my current place they do really care about me. They have tried before to get my to ease up on the hours. But especially at busy times there is so much work to be done I have to put in the hours to keep on top of it.

so they care about you but they let you work up to 13 hours a day and put you in danger to finish your exams. they tell you to work less but give you work for two people. doesn't add up to me.
it sounds exactly like what I'm assuming. They need to employ another person for the workload they have but they don't have to because you work for two for free.

Are you the only employee there? If not, what about the others? Do they do this overtime too?

And did you talk to your employer about it? Instead of changing jobs all the time you need to talk to your employer first. Tell them you can't do this anymore, work this long hours, you need time to finish your exams. My guess is all of a sudden it will be possible because they don't want to loose you.

Could be all wrong and you're a really bad and slow worker but you don't appear as such from your posts.

Princess Calla · 21-10-2019 11:55am

Don't let your company's problem become your problem!

From what you describe it sounds like they could do with another member of staff.

If you genuinely think you are a slow worker, some people are, I'm not the fastest myself, I would stay back an hour or an hour and a half tops.

Concentrate on the exams, they are ultimately your priority.

beauf · 22-10-2019 12:10am

I have no knowledge of accountancy.

But in my experience people who get promoted are good at marketing themselves.

Being a good worker or working long hours just gets you more work. As does being more efficient. Most places don't even measure productivity.

I've done a lot of process automation often using Excel and similar. It's not unusual to slash hours off people's working day and make things more accurate and reduce errors massively. But I've mainly stopped doing it as most people prefer doing things their own way. It's too hard to get people to change out of of bad habits. Most people aren't willing to listen to anyone elses suggestions.

LegacyUser · 22-10-2019 6:12am

Unfortunately the multiple jobs have been due to work or exam related issues. There are no stupid easy fix things like not getting on with people or attendance issues. However I have stayed in each role longer then the last. Also my current place seem happy enough with me except for not getting the exams and I would not be leaving straight away so that would give me 1 job on the cv of 2 - 3 years.

Another option I was thinking of was if I did get the exams I could work under the market rate maybe 20-25k for a year or two. Use this time to improve skills as I would have alot more time.
I already have all the other elements to apply for membership just need to get the exams.

22-10-2019 11:08pm

tara73 wrote: »

are you sure the highlighted is really the case ?

there's not one job where I couldn't observe this scenario: there's the employee (unfortunately almost always women) with low self esteem, who's insecure and never sure about their work, never thinks they've done enough, although they're great and very often indeed it's the opposite they're better and more efficient than most of the other colleagues.

So what do bosses/teamleader think and do: GREAT! there she is, the one who will work for two and saves me the money to employ another one. And off they go and dump the work on your desk. To make sure it's not coming to your mind there's something wrong going on, it often also goes hand in hand with verbal manipulative strategies to put you down, i.e telling you being too slow or pointing out mistakes etc.

please check for it, it happens too often!
It happened to me too when I was younger/your age. They, for sure, like to do this sh** with people who just graduated and are in their first job, because you are the vulnerable ones, not yet sure about your real skills.

Agree with all this, except it happens to both men and women, in my experience. Starting out in a professional career is a brutal experience.

OP, you are working hard, but are you working smart? It is incredibly hard to be productive for 12 hours a day, day after day. Chances are you are spending hours at work getting little done but being present in the office. You might be better off focusing on 6 very good hours of work, than 12 mediocre ones.

I used to be extremely unstructured at work, checking emails, the internet, my phone etc. I was at my desk but maybe only working for 40 mins of the hour, some days even less. So, to get 6 hours work done, I would have to be in the office 9 hours etc.

Study after study has shown people can't multi-task, and people have a finite attention span in a day. If you check your phone (for example) you are robbing yourself of the cognitive power you need to do your job.

I would recommend reading The Organised Mind by Daniel Levitkin (I think), absolutely transformative book on how to structure your day at work.

Career related issues

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