VHI worth it?

hurler32 · 13-02-2020 10:48am #1

With kids facing college etc , funds are tighter than they were. Makes me wonder is 200 PM for our family for VHI essential .
As it happens ive had a acid reflux issue recently so went to doc start of January to get referral for camera in stomach just to make sure all ok, purely precautionary. Got a call yesterday to meet consultant to see my story ( and get 150 euro) before i am given hospital appointment for camera . So i waited about 2 months to get referral, i wonder if id no VHI would i have been a whole lot longer?? Hence is it worth having my 2400 a year vhi policy.??

JustAThought · 13-02-2020 11:20am

I have to say I let mine lapse when times were tight but I had a bad run of health and then a car crash and really regretted it.Ironically when money abounded but I worked a 6/70 hour week I could never have taken the time off for hospital & doctor visits nor would I have spent the e100 a visit two or three times a week for physio, nor been able to justify all the scans/MRI’s etc at 4/600 a go. But -it lapsed and now I have a pre-existing condituon & the price of new coverage or being sble to get new coverage will be an issue.

But, having watched a loved one be terribly sick and die and the massive difference between public and private care (6 in a 1980’s ward in Beaumount versus Beacon private) I would really say to make the sacrifice and keep it. If you or your kids are brought in as an emergency you can always say you dont have vhi - like half the city does -and then all treatment is free -but you may have long waits ( or not). If you or your eife, God forbid, get cancer or a degenarative condition that needs medicsl help quickly -then you really want your vhi & not to be waiting months for a list to free up all the time while you get worse & worse.

Having been treated for the aftermath of s car crash for the past year on the public system ( I dont have vhi snymore) it is a huge relief to be able to get treatment snd not worry about the cost or bills but the waiting times are long enough and you have to be on your game to protest and ask for things ( scans, consultants etc) as they are watching their costs snd department budgets. I would have had s full and proper diagnoses 8 months before if I had had private cover - my recovery and treatment is far behind what it should be and it will be much harder for the damage to bd fixed as it went complained about but undiagnosed for 8 months as there was no budget for cat scans unless if was ‘really needed’ ( wait list for consultant 4 months no consultant referral, no cat scan -then further lengthy wait for cat scan).

For so many loved ones you are really taking s gamble.

Good few years back I had problems with my eyesight & ended up in the eye & ear hospital - had I vhi -I said I wasnt sure as I might be on the family policy. whats the problem -waiting list for neurologist was 6 months. Turns out they thought I had a brain tumor (I didn’t). If I had vhi the appointment choice was Tuesday or Thursday.

you dont want to be making those choices for your children.

sbsquarepants · 13-02-2020 11:37am

I don't have it, never did. Like all insurance it's money wasted until you need to claim!

I'd like to have it for peace of mind i suppose, but there's just always something more pressing to spend the money on. I've been lucky in that i'm generally healthy. I've been to the doctors twice or 3 times i think in the past 25 odd years since i started working, and haven't had any major accidents.

I hurt my neck a few years back (disc problem) and needed an MRI - couldn't wait for a year or whatever the wait was and so paid privately to get it done that day - cost me €750. 2 more minor work accidents but the job footed the bill for all that - would have only been at best a grand anyway combined.

Family VHI for that period would have come to what, €50K ish?

It actually transpired that the beacon messed up the billing and credited me the cost of the MRI 2 or 3 days later, so quids in all round so far!:D

seamus · 13-02-2020 11:56am

You should pay your VHI before you pay your mortgage. One is more important than the other.

Squiggle · 13-02-2020 11:57am

€750 for an MRI is about three times the price of what you can get it done for elsewhere.

In the terms of the OP's question Private health insurance gets you seen quicker for elective procedures .

If you are brought in an ambulance to a public hospital after an accident, stroke, heart attack etc. you will get the same treatment, public or private. The most expensive private plan will not get you a private room in this scenario if there isn't one available.

stratowide · 13-02-2020 12:07pm

Stop eating processed rubbish,don't smoke,cut down on the drink.
Lift heavy weights,do some high intensity exercise at near 80% your MHR.

Get your 8 hours sleep every night.Non negotiable this one.

Work on your mobility.Stay supple and flexible.

These wont guarantee you wont end up in hospital sometime but will go a long way to keep you out of it.

Oh and they are free.

Raconteuse · 13-02-2020 12:10pm

Cancer could strike ANYone, no matter how healthy they are.

Health insurance is absolutely worth it. It perplexes me when people ask whether it is tbh.

One eyed Jack · 13-02-2020 12:12pm

hurler32 wrote: »

Hence is it worth having my 2400 a year vhi policy.??

That’s the whole point of insurance. It’s not a savings scheme, it’s basically buying peace of mind. Whether you’re getting value with the policy you’re paying for is the real question, and there’s no way of knowing that without knowing what else is available to you. Is there some reason you have to stay on that specific policy with that specific provider?

Health insurance nowadays is absolutely essential IMO, especially with the healthcare sector the way it’s gone in Ireland and Government doesn’t appear too bothered to address it, so health insurance is just a way of preparing or proofing yourself and your family in case of a time when you might find yourself really up shìt creek, and you’ll wish you’d remembered to take a paddle.

13-02-2020 12:17pm

Put away half as much per month as you would pay for insurance and you'll be fine and/or check out the Hospital Saturday Fund for more day-to-day stuff.

cj maxx · 13-02-2020 12:28pm

JustAThought wrote: »

But,. whats the problem -waiting list for neurologist was 6 months. Turns out they thought I had a brain tumor (I didn’t).
A neurologist in 6 months ??

A couple of years more like for a neurologist, though once he/she diagnoses you you can go straight into the public system I think .

Stateofyou · 13-02-2020 1:22pm

Some questions I have~
If we pay our PRSI, why should we also have to pay for private health service in order to get the best outcome?
Why are the waiting lists so long for public health services?
Are we not collecting enough tax to pay for excellent and timely public health services?
It seems to me it would be more cost effective to raise health taxes a bit for a better Public Health Service so we didn't have to pay privately on top of PRSI. Surely it would save people money if we all contributed a bit more?
Which other countries have more successful models and what tax rate do they pay?

You always hear Canadians talking about how great their system is, and how they get to focus on getting well instead of dealing with bills and insurance company squabbles + rules.

"Pre-existing conditions" rule is BULLSH*T. Why can't we legislate that the f-k out of our system? Even the Americans sorted that one out.

sbsquarepants · 13-02-2020 2:04pm

Squiggle wrote: »

€750 for an MRI is about three times the price of what you can get it done for elsewhere.

In the terms of the OP's question Private health insurance gets you seen quicker for elective procedures .

If you are brought in an ambulance to a public hospital after an accident, stroke, heart attack etc. you will get the same treatment, public or private. The most expensive private plan will not get you a private room in this scenario if there isn't one available.

I'm reasonably sure it was €750, was about 10 years ago though so i could be wrong? Also, i was in agony and just wanted it to stop, i wasn't shopping around or going anywhere to save a few bob!

VHI is OK when you're getting on and things are likely to go wrong for you, to get any "value" out of it when you're younger you'd really need to be quite unlucky IMO.

In my own personal case it would have proved to be 50 grand down the drain. Most people my age would likely have similar stories, if you have a few spare grand a year then yea, go for it, if your job will provide it, then it's a great perk absolutely.

I just always found something more pressing to eat that money though.

jimmycrackcorm · 13-02-2020 2:12pm

Stateofyou wrote: »

Some questions I have~
If we pay our PRSI, why should we also have to pay for private health service in order to get the best outcome?
Why are the waiting lists so long for public health services?
Are we not collecting enough tax to pay for excellent and timely public health services?
It seems to me it would be more cost effective to raise health taxes a bit for a better Public Health Service so we didn't have to pay privately on top of PRSI. Surely it would save people money if we all contributed a bit more?
Which other countries have more successful models and what tax rate do they pay?

You always hear Canadians talking about how great their system is, and how they get to focus on getting well instead of dealing with bills and insurance company squabbles + rules.

"Pre-existing conditions" rule is BULLSH*T. Why can't we legislate that the f-k out of our system? Even the Americans sorted that one out.

Or next government is going to make the tax base to make it more difficult to pay for services like health.

You could argue that everyone should be paying for PHI including the less well off. Is imagine if they were to put the money spent on beer and gags towards health insurance then they'd be able to afford it.

Even though I have it for my family, when one of my kids needed urgent surgery, they were able to get it done quickly under the pubic system.

When it comes to waiting lists though, that's when it's needed.

13-02-2020 2:23pm

When you need it, you'll be glad you prioritized it. That's life, everything feels like a waste of money until you're in a position to appreciate how different things could have been. Like house insurance, I hope I never need it but it could possibly be a lifesaver if I do.

BeerWolf · 13-02-2020 2:28pm

Insurance is one of those things that is better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

13-02-2020 2:32pm

BeerWolf wrote: »

Insurance is one of those things that is better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

Which is exactly what my Granny says about umbrellas. And my Granny is always right.

Raconteuse · 13-02-2020 2:39pm

BeerWolf wrote: »

Insurance is one of those things that is better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

Very well put.

Another thing I don't get is people asking what the point of a pension is. No consideration of the bigger picture at all.

Charles Babbage · 13-02-2020 2:44pm

Stateofyou wrote: »

Some questions I have~
If we pay our PRSI, why should we also have to pay for private health service in order to get the best outcome?
Why are the waiting lists so long for public health services?
Are we not collecting enough tax to pay for excellent and timely public health services?
It seems to me it would be more cost effective to raise health taxes a bit for a better Public Health Service so we didn't have to pay privately on top of PRSI. Surely it would save people money if we all contributed a bit more?
Which other countries have more successful models and what tax rate do they pay?

You always hear Canadians talking about how great their system is, and how they get to focus on getting well instead of dealing with bills and insurance company squabbles + rules.

"Pre-existing conditions" rule is BULLSH*T. Why can't we legislate that the f-k out of our system? Even the Americans sorted that one out.

If you could just wait until you were sick and then take out insurance then the companies would quickly go bust or premiums would be exorbitant.

Stateofyou · 13-02-2020 2:53pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

If you could just wait until you were sick and then take out insurance the companies would quickly go bust or premiums would be exorbitant.

What?
Why do we even have this system of a public/private + personal insurance at all. Insurance companies are making huge profits. We are also paying PRSI. Why don't we invest more in our public health system to make it as good as other countries who have this for their citizens. It makes no sense to me that we all pay PRSI for a half-baked health care system while also having to fork out extra money for private health care so to be seen to properly. While having to be at the mercy of insurance companies with regards to what they will/won't cover and the pre-existing conditions and wait time rules while they profit off our backs.

VHI Press release:
17th April 2019 - Vhi today announced details of its annual results for the year ending 31 December 2018. This has been another solid year for Vhi Group with the consolidated business reporting a net surplus of €82.4 million.

byhookorbycrook · 13-02-2020 3:04pm

Up to around the age of 35, the only hospital I ever attended was to get my adenoids out as a child . I ran mini-marathons,,cycled , one - day evented with my horse. I was diagnosed with MS then and my world crumbled .
The treatment I’m on isn’t available in some public hospitals and cost 2.5 k per month . I have MRIs every 6 months at least .

I recently developed severe neck/ shoulder pain. Consultants prices as follows : €250, €180, €120 - I get 75% back on VHI with my plan . MRIs totally covered .
I also got admitted on the spot to a private hospital, where I shared a room with one other person. Contrast this to where a relation was in an 8 bed ward where the noise levels and hygiene were both questionable.

I’d give up most things before I’d give up VHI.

Squiggle · 13-02-2020 3:35pm

Candie wrote: »

When you need it, you'll be glad you prioritized it. That's life, everything feels like a waste of money until you're in a position to appreciate how different things could have been. Like house insurance, I hope I never need it but it could possibly be a lifesaver if I do.

It's not really like house insurance though. If you don't have house insurance and your house burns down there's no backup.

If you have a heart attack and are brought to hospital in an ambulance you'll be treated irrespective of whether or not you have health insurance.

byhookorbycrook · 13-02-2020 4:21pm

Squiggle wrote: »

It's not really like house insurance though. If you don't have house insurance and your house burns down there's no backup.

If you have a heart attack and are brought to hospital in an ambulance you'll be treated irrespective of whether or not you have health insurance.

Unless you happen to have it “ out of hours,” in Waterford hospital.
Even with VHI, there was an 18 month delay to see a neurologist in Dublin at the time I needed to find one .

sbsquarepants · 13-02-2020 4:34pm

BeerWolf wrote: »

Insurance is one of those things that is better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

I don't disagree.

Dinner is an even more terrible thing to need and not have though!:D

Bigus · 13-02-2020 5:02pm

seamus wrote: »

You should pay your VHI before you pay your mortgage. One is more important than the other.

I give this same advice to people who ask , health insurance is worth more than anything when the need kicks in .
Even if you had the money to pay cash for procedures , protocols mean a lot of private healthcare won’t take non insured cash patients, but will happily let you jump the queue once you have even basic insurance which you can supplement with extra cash payments if necessary to get better rooms etc.

During the downturn I almost let my families VHI lapse along with many other monthly payments , except I met an elderly wise lady at a funeral who convinced me to reinstate it. Luckily I was within a week of the 3 month total lapse of the policy which meant benefits were totally reinstated immediately, instead of a 2 year probation on new policies. Amazingly the old lady’s wise words were proven correct only 6 months later , as my wife got serious cancer and just as she recovered 2 years later I was on deaths door with a problem that started similarly to the the ops reflux. Payout in my wife’s case was north of 65k and me about 27 k , our older kids also benefited to the tune of thousands on minor stuff.
We’re both good now and I’ve no doubt a lot of the reason we’re both alive and well is due to the rapid response, superior specialists, and quicker access to the latest equipment in the better funded and more importantly better managed private care in a brand new up to date hospital.

So in our case we got and get great value and VHI payments will always take precedence in this household over everything else if the things turn bad again.

Also the only healthcare over a lifetime worth having is the government backed VHI , no point in false economy I’m my opinion with the also rans who are in it to profit.

Ms2011 · 13-02-2020 7:25pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Up to around the age of 35, the only hospital I ever attended was to get my adenoids out as a child . I ran mini-marathons,,cycled , one - day evented with my horse. I was diagnosed with MS then and my world crumbled .
The treatment I’m on isn’t available in some public hospitals and cost 2.5 k per month . I have MRIs every 6 months at least .

I recently developed severe neck/ shoulder pain. Consultants prices as follows : €250, €180, €120 - I get 75% back on VHI with my plan . MRIs totally covered .
I also got admitted on the spot to a private hospital, where I shared a room with one other person. Contrast this to where a relation was in an 8 bed ward where the noise levels and hygiene were both questionable.

I’d give up most things before I’d give up VHI.

I was the same, never had anything more than a cold until the age of 37, then boom, IBD landed on my doorstep.
Would have been waiting 8 months for scopes on the public system despite being so ill I ate no more than a mouthful or so of cereal for 10 weeks and lost 2 stone. I finally gave in and went private (paid out of my own pocket), was seen & treated in 2 weeks to the tune of €2,200 but I was on the road to recovery.
All that said what I paid is still equivalent to what I would have paid over the year/years in insurance premiums. I was able to claim 20% back so all in all it cost me €1,760.

Greyfox · 13-02-2020 7:43pm

It's not worth it, it's a waste of money for most people.

Esel · 13-02-2020 7:54pm

Greyfox wrote: »

It's not worth it, it's a waste of money for most people.

Same for house insurance, because most houses don't burn down or get burgled?

joe40 · 13-02-2020 8:11pm

Ms2011 wrote: »

I was the same, never had anything more than a cold until the age of 37, then boom, IBD landed on my doorstep.
Would have been waiting 8 months for scopes on the public system despite being so ill I ate no more than a mouthful or so of cereal for 10 weeks and lost 2 stone. I finally gave in and went private (paid out of my own pocket), was seen & treated in 2 weeks to the tune of €2,200 but I was on the road to recovery.
All that said what I paid is still equivalent to what I would have paid over the year/years in insurance premiums. I was able to claim 20% back so all in all it cost me €1,760.

That's the sort of sums I do the cost of going private compared to health insurance. 10 years of premium s would get a lot of private care.
I do believe for things like cancer once you are in the system care is comparable, but thankfully I not experienced enough in our health system to have definite knowledgs. Wife and kids have health insurance, I don't.

Looptheloop30 · 13-02-2020 10:33pm

In early 30s. How much benefit if any is there to the very basic packages, roughly 440 for the year? Is the main perk being that I would get seen much quicker if something did happen to go wrong?

13-02-2020 10:39pm

PHI is very much worth it.

People should be lobbying for reduced funding to the public system and allow them pay less in tax to help pay for PHI.

All the public sector cheerleaders you find on Boards are the first to run to the private sector when it comes to Health. Ask yourself why that is.

One eyed Jack · 13-02-2020 10:53pm

salonfire wrote: »

PHI is very much worth it.

People should be lobbying for reduced funding to the public system and allow them pay less in tax to help pay for PHI.

All the public sector cheerleaders you find on Boards are the first to run to the private sector when it comes to Health. Ask yourself why that is.

That’s lobbying for two very different, completely separate and unrelated things. It’s like saying my taxes fund social welfare and if Government cut social welfare, I wouldn’t have to pay so much tax. It’s nonsense really as one doesn’t follow from the other.

As it happens, my employer pays for my health insurance premiums so I don’t pay any taxes on those. I don’t know had the OP considered it but it didn’t appear like the OP was interested in changing jobs to one where their employer covered their health insurance premiums.

13-02-2020 11:20pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That’s lobbying for two very different, completely separate and unrelated things. It’s like saying my taxes fund social welfare and if Government cut social welfare, I wouldn’t have to pay so much tax. It’s nonsense really as one doesn’t follow from the other.

As it happens, my employer pays for my health insurance premiums so I don’t pay any taxes on those. I don’t know had the OP considered it but it didn’t appear like the OP was interested in changing jobs to one where their employer covered their health insurance premiums.

The HSE is a 18 billion black hole. Cutting it back to the emergencies, basics and oversight only would allow for substantial tax savings to individuals.

tdf7187 · 13-02-2020 11:23pm

It's worth it in general but some policies are over-priced for what you get. Always worth shopping around or even having a review phone call with your current provider. €2,400 doesn't strike me as all that bad for a family policy, but who knows, you may be able to get a better deal without losing important benefits.

The thing that grinds my gears is the inflation - the first year I got health insurance in my own right, as a working adult, I paid IR£150. A year. That was 1994, so hardly ancient history.

tdf7187 · 13-02-2020 11:24pm

salonfire wrote: »

The HSE is a 18 billion black hole.

No, wrong.

14-02-2020 12:09am

tdf7187 wrote: »

No, wrong.

I stand corrected.

It is a 21 billion black hole. My bad.

uck51js9zml2yt · 14-02-2020 12:12am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'm reasonably sure it was €750, was about 10 years ago though so i could be wrong? Also, i was in agony and just wanted it to stop, i wasn't shopping around or going anywhere to save a few bob!

VHI is OK when you're getting on and things are likely to go wrong for you, to get any "value" out of it when you're younger you'd really need to be quite unlucky IMO.

In my own personal case it would have proved to be 50 grand down the drain. Most people my age would likely have similar stories, if you have a few spare grand a year then yea, go for it, if your job will provide it, then it's a great perk absolutely.

I just always found something more pressing to eat that money though.

We have HI.
I've had heart surgery for an unknown problem in recent years and my wife had surgery last month.
Both my kids have also availed of it.
Worth every penny.

andekwarhola · 14-02-2020 1:31am

It's moderately handy having it to partially pay for normal family stuff llike A and E or minor procedures but that's not why we have it. You could take the hit on that stuff handy enough. It's for the off chance that something serious happens, both in terms of cost and access.

Don't shop around as work pays for me and my family but would do it if they didn't.

andekwarhola · 14-02-2020 1:37am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't have it, never did. Like all insurance it's money wasted until you need to claim!

So, like any type of insurance in the entire history of insurance.

andekwarhola · 14-02-2020 1:40am

Squiggle wrote: »

IIf you have a heart attack and are brought to hospital in an ambulance you'll be treated irrespective of whether or not you have health insurance.

You keep saying this as if every serious health scenario involves rocking up to hospital in an ambulance.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 14-02-2020 3:03am

stratowide wrote: »

Stop eating processed rubbish,don't smoke,cut down on the drink.
Lift heavy weights,do some high intensity exercise at near 80% your MHR.

Get your 8 hours sleep every night.Non negotiable this one.

Work on your mobility.Stay supple and flexible.

These wont guarantee you wont end up in hospital sometime but will go a long way to keep you out of it.

Oh and they are free.

All the young advanced cancer patients I know who did some or all of those things...

OP, yes, it’s worth it. It’s trite but health truly is wealth.

Deiselurker · 14-02-2020 7:27am

Also the public health system is not fully free as if you are admitted to a public hospital and don't have a medical card or health insurance you are charged 80 a night up to a maximum of 10 nights in year. 800 bill would be a lot for many people. You can take out cheap insurance plans that will cover this.

14-02-2020 8:54am

I keep misreading this as vhs and getting confused

Squiggle · 14-02-2020 9:45am

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Unless you happen to have it “ out of hours,” in Waterford hospital.
Even with VHI, there was an 18 month delay to see a neurologist in Dublin at the time I needed to find one .

How would private health insurance help you in an out of hours situation, where you had a heat attack?

Squiggle · 14-02-2020 9:58am

andekwarhola wrote: »

You keep saying this as if every serious health scenario involves rocking up to hospital in an ambulance.

What I've said is true for serious situations, without the ambulance scenario. Elective procedures are cancelled all the time to facilitate serious cases, both public and private.

JustAThought · 14-02-2020 12:39pm

Squiggle wrote: »

How would private health insurance help you in an out of hours situation, where you had a heat attack?

you go to your private a&e in Blackrock for example - and are saved.

Rodin · 14-02-2020 12:43pm

Waste of money for the young and healthy.
The economics don't add up.

Id have paid a 5figure sum this past 10 years and not used it once.

Need a consultant opinion quickly? Just pay for it. 1-2 monthly payments would have it covered

Squiggle · 14-02-2020 4:21pm

JustAThought wrote: »

you go to your private a&e in Blackrock for example - and are saved.

From Waterford? A public ambulance that you access through 999 will not bring you to a private hospital anywhere.

Blackrock clinic advises you to ring 999 if you need an immediate ambulance response.

Zebra3 · 14-02-2020 4:24pm

Put the money into a separate bank account.

I’d you ever need it, get a loan. If you never need it, you keep the money.

JohnnyFlash · 14-02-2020 4:26pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Put the money into a separate bank account.

I’d you ever need it, get a loan. If you never need it, you keep the money.

Moronic advice.

Esel · 14-02-2020 6:09pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Put the money into a separate bank account.

I’d you ever need it, get a loan. If you never need it, you keep the money.

Realistically, no-one is ever going to do that.

JustAThought · 14-02-2020 9:18pm

Esel wrote: »

Realistically, no-one is ever going to do that.

People often say that about vet insurance - a couple of hundred max a year - nobody guesses how much an animal xray or operation can be - they’re often the ones making tragic decisions based on economics when an accident happens.

IP e200 a month can be a lot but its your family - you’d be a it time regretting it. And as I discovered while you can go to Dublin and now walk into a private clinic and pay cash for an MRI someone has to tell them how far up or down to scan - you are charged per area and area extension, the radiographer will not read it for you in your hospital as it was not comissioned by your consultant, your consultant will not read it even if they can because its a specialists job not theirs and they are not paid to write that report or interpret scans, - it goes on and on - the Irish system and unions and meshed union agreements going back decades make sure it is kept as an highly tight intertwined system where you cannot get them to step outside their protocols and payment system to suit you - even when it looks glaringly simple and easy. Someone should have a look at it - but of course they never will.

VHI worth it?

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