F1 2019 - Round 16 Russia

vectra · 29-09-2019 3:03pm

2011 wrote: »

I wouldn’t. Nothing that he did had any impact on Leclerc. Like any F1 driver who gets a whiff of win he drove the nuts out of the car. All Leclerc had to do was keep up, I say this as a fan of Leclerc’s.

Yes, the MGUK failure in Vettel’s car was very much to Hamilton’s advantage but this was not Vettel’s fault.

Well, In light of the result, had Vettel let Leclerc pass when asked. The final outcome could have been much different.

Joeface · 29-09-2019 3:25pm

I don't think Vettel letting Charles pass early would have helped Charles . Vettels pace was far superior he pulled away reasonably easy and even when Charles did try and push he didn't gain and Lewis was actually gaining on him. The way Ferrari chose to swap them was the best way to do . Leaving Vettel out longer . Still think the team orders they way they use them is stupid. First to the turn gets the priority and if pace is an issue then swap them . Clearly Vettel was the faster on race pace today as he was last race.

When the time came to challenge Bottas he just could not get the car to do what he wanted. Never really closed on him and given the speed advantage they had shown on track during the start of the race Charles should have been able to make a proper go at that . His single lap ability is amazing so he will get other poles this season but he is been found a little short in actual race .

Virtual safety car rules do need to change they are having a bit too much influence , the "delta" they have to keep needs to be higher . It does make things interesting but it can be crap on some racing .

29-09-2019 3:30pm

vectra wrote: »

Well, In light of the result, had Vettel let Leclerc pass when asked. The final outcome could have been much different.

That would imply that Vettel slowed Leclerc which was not the case.

This is it · 29-09-2019 3:43pm

The thing is, if Vettel did let him by it's highly likely Vettel would've passed with DRS anyway, he was the quicker driver all day. I want LeClerc to win but I don't want Vettel to let him win.

pjohnson · 29-09-2019 4:24pm

This is it wrote: »

The thing is, if Vettel did let him by it's highly likely Vettel would've passed with DRS anyway, he was the quicker driver all day. I want LeClerc to win but I don't want Vettel to let him win.

Plus he would be just inviting Hamilton to start putting himself amongst them if Vettel was then forced to stay behind Leclerc. Maybe the swap was arranged which I've no issue with but Leclerc simply fell too far behind Vettel for it to work. If Leclerc was within a second then Seb should get out of his way if that was what was arranged. It wouldnt be hard once Charles had DRS. Leclerc just couldnt get within a range that made that strategy swap feasible.

vectra · 29-09-2019 4:49pm

Yes Vettel appeared to be the faster car, BUT, it is much more difficult to follow than to Lead,
IE
Did you notice the gap Hamilton built up once his sidekick played the game?

Cork Trucker · 29-09-2019 4:50pm

vectra wrote: »

Yes Vettel appeared to be the faster car, BUT, it is much more difficult to follow than to Lead,
IE
Did you notice the gap Hamilton built up once his wingman played the game?

Fixed that for you

vectra · 29-09-2019 4:51pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Fixed that for you

That's it. Couldn't think of the word :pac:

chicorytip · 29-09-2019 5:23pm

Panic Stations wrote: »

Ferrari really lost out here today. Went from P1 & P2 to just a P3.

In fairness to Seb he got a 4 second lead early on in the race and didn't think it'd be fair for Ferrari to swap if he managed to get that far ahead.

Good race from Albon, great to see him making a name for himself in Redbull.

Classic Grosjean crashing again.

Albon is not really doing a much better job than Gasly was in terms of time. He has some nice moves but is miles adrift of Max. That is why Gasly was demoted, I thought.
You could hardly blame Grosjean for that. Giovinazzi was trying to drive through a gap which didn't exist.

wally1990 · 29-09-2019 5:25pm

Uhhh, the awkward body language

Ha Long Bay · 29-09-2019 5:53pm

I really think they need to look at how it can save 15 seconds pitting under the VSC. If its suppose to neutralise the race its not working.

Cool_CM · 29-09-2019 6:14pm

wally1990 wrote: »

Uhhh, the awkward body language

"Both boys are now aware that smoking on school grounds is against the rules and they have assured me that they will not do it again".

29-09-2019 6:57pm

john4321 wrote: »

I really think they need to look at how it can save 15 seconds pitting under the VSC. If its suppose to neutralise the race its not working.

They brought in a rule back in the day that the pitlane closed when there was a SC before opening once the queue formed. They got rid of it when people had to pit for fuel then get a drive-through. Really should have reintroduced it once re-fuelling was banned.

Dont be at yourself · 29-09-2019 6:58pm

Just make drivers putting under the safety car serve a 10s stop-go before they can change the tyres.

Jeff2 · 29-09-2019 8:46pm

A comment on this video.:D

Today we saw Grosjean in a crash he didn't cause and Kyvat nearly getting torpedoed....I sense a disturbance in the force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

AfterDusk · 29-09-2019 8:49pm

john4321 wrote: »

I really think they need to look at how it can save 15 seconds pitting under the VSC. If its suppose to neutralise the race its not working.

Funny, people seemed to think this was a stroke of genius when Ferrari jumped Mercedes in Australia & China last year under VSC/SC. Now when Mercedes gain the advantage, they need to re-think the rules........

29-09-2019 9:28pm

AfterDusk wrote: »

Funny, people seemed to think this was a stroke of genius when Ferrari jumped Mercedes in Australia & China last year under VSC/SC. Now when Mercedes gain the advantage, they need to re-think the rules........

I think any F1 fan prefers action on the track rather than in the pits. However when a safety car results in a more interesting race by giving an “underdog” a chance it is not surprising that it is viewed differently than when it results in a return to the monotony of a Merc 1, 2.

the_pen_turner · 29-09-2019 9:40pm

AfterDusk wrote: »

Funny, people seemed to think this was a stroke of genius when Ferrari jumped Mercedes in Australia & China last year under VSC/SC. Now when Mercedes gain the advantage, they need to re-think the rules........

its a stroke of genius when a third party causes the safety car not when your own driver causes it

vettel could have easily pointed his car into that gated area and let it roll out that way so that the marshals only had to push it out the gap. it would have only been a yellow flag or a short virtual safety car period

wally1990 · 29-09-2019 9:50pm

Albon v Norris (not shown on main feed)

https://streamable.com/9nst7

H3llR4iser · 29-09-2019 11:03pm

Unfortunately, this is Ferrari shooting themselves in the foot once again - first, if there WAS indeed some agreement about "slipstreaming" at the start...well, it's an idiotic idea as it could have helped Hamilton just as well. It was just that Vettel bolted out of the grid like the proverbial bat out of hell, but if that hadn't happened, the "plan" would have gifted Lewis the lead.

Second, you don't just "swap" the positions when the driver in the lead did an outstanding start AND is faster; The fact Vettel got up to 4 seconds ahead puts any discussion to rest. The whole concept made zero sense whatsoever, except in the scenario where Ferrari are for some reason "sorry" about Singapore, which points to an entire different level of issues. Go check if Wolff is ever "sorry" about any of his decisions regarding on track events.

Third, they really messed up when they told Vettel to "stop the car" two corners from the pitlane. There are NO easily accessible escape roads there, and he was literally a few hundreds meters from the pitlane. They're not in the title fight, an engine penalty in Suzuka would have been pretty much inconsequential - especially considering that Red Bull not only are effectively racing with one driver, they seem to have been going backwards in development as well.

All in all, after the Singapore smarts, Ferrari's pitwall cock3d up again massively, someone should be writing a book about it by now.

Woodsie1 · 29-09-2019 11:11pm

chicorytip wrote: »

Albon is not really doing a much better job than Gasly was in terms of time. He has some nice moves but is miles adrift of Max. That is why Gasly was demoted, I thought.

Is it not that Red Bull are getting all the data on the 3 drivers so as to choose for next year?
Im sure I read or heard somewhere(i cant for the life of me remember)that by the end of the season they will have equal amount of data from Kyvat,Gasly and Albon in the Red Bull car and that they can make the choice for 2020 bsed on that

Charlie-Bravo · 29-09-2019 11:21pm

As far as I know, it's a toss up between Albon or Gasly. Don't think Kvyat is in the mix.

I'm thinking Albon might just have the job done provided he doesn't do something stupid between now and the last race. Coming anywhere ahead of the rest of the field needs to done. Albon had a decent race starting from the pit lane, stayed out of trouble, brought it home in 5th.

quokula · 29-09-2019 11:26pm

I wish Red Bull would entertain the idea of going outside their stable and put Hulkenberg in the car. I just want to see how he'd perform in a top car, just once in his career. He's done more than enough to deserve it, while guys like Albon still have years to develop.

H3llR4iser · 29-09-2019 11:38pm

So, addendum to the previous post - it has now emerged Vettel's car issue was electric, in the form of a loss of insulation. In a nushell, he had to stop immediately because the car was an electrical shock hazard. So massive amount of back luck there - or, as some pundit put it, "karma" for the horrible way Ferrari handled their drivers previously in the race.

astrofluff wrote: »

As far as I know, it's a toss up between Albon or Gasly. Don't think Kvyat is in the mix.

I'm thinking Albon might just have the job done provided he doesn't do something stupid between now and the last race. Coming anywhere ahead of the rest of the field needs to done. Albon had a decent race starting from the pit lane, stayed out of trouble, brought it home in 5th.

Rather than switching drivers like underpants, Red Bull need to look at why the drivers in that second car struggle. Neither Gasly nor Albon are slow drivers, certainly not a second off Max. My money is on the development of the car being exclusively based off of Verstappen's indications and setups.

AMKC · 30-09-2019 3:32pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

So, addendum to the previous post - it has now emerged Vettel's car issue was electric, in the form of a loss of insulation. In a nushell, he had to stop immediately because the car was an electrical shock hazard. So massive amount of back luck there - or, as some pundit put it, "karma" for the horrible way Ferrari handled their drivers previously in the race.

Rather than switching drivers like underpants, Red Bull need to look at why the drivers in that second car struggle. Neither Gasly nor Albon are slow drivers, certainly not a second off Max. My money is on the development of the car being exclusively based off of Verstappen's indications and setups.

I have to say I really enjoyed this race but then I was only watching highlights of it. I do not get why some people complain about how boring the race was. If you are watching then live and find it boring then the solution is simple. Do not watch it live just watch the highlights like most of the rest of us and you will always get a good race as all the boring parts are cut from it:)

So, addendum to the previous post - it has now emerged Vettel's car issue was electric, in the form of a loss of insulation. In a nushell, he had to stop immediately because the car was an electrical shock hazard. So massive amount of back luck there - or, as some pundit put it, "karma" for the horrible way Ferrari handled their drivers previously in the race.

I would love to know what Vettel said to the marshals after getting out of his car? It makes sense now why he jumped away from his car the way he did.

Spudman_20000 · 01-10-2019 11:58am

Are there any more annoying 4 words in F1 than "GET IN THERE LEWIS!"?

They got the win based on timely VSC, but going by the team radio you'd swear they pulled off a tactical masterstroke.

Anjobe · 01-10-2019 12:08pm

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

Are there any more annoying 4 words in F1 than "GET IN THERE LEWIS!"?

"Lights out and away we go..."? (I know that's 6).

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

They got the win based on timely VSC, but going by the team radio you'd swear they pulled off a tactical masterstroke.

Just as Ferrari got a bit lucky with the unexpectedly large undercut last week? In each case the team had to perform well with regards to both the driver and the strategy in order to be in a position to take advantage of their good fortune.

In this race Mercedes went for a bold strategy to start on the medium tyres and Hamilton drove well to keep pace with the Ferraris in their first stint and then go a bit longer. It was a lucky win, but not completely undeserved.

flazio · 01-10-2019 12:54pm

Anjobe wrote: »

"Lights out and away we go..."? (I know that's 6).

Not sure if you're calling out Ben Edwards, David Croft or both but generally the phrase is either Ben's "Lights out, Away we go" (5 words) or David's "It's lights out and away we go." (7 words).
Jack Nicholls on BBC seems to have coined the phrase "All five lights are on, and we are racing in...." or more famously in Formula E "...and we go green in.....")
Anyway, the most annoying words in the history of Formula 1? "Valterri it's James"

Anjobe · 01-10-2019 1:25pm

flazio wrote: »

Not sure if you're calling out Ben Edwards, David Croft or both but generally the phrase is either Ben's "Lights out, Away we go" (5 words) or David's "It's lights out and away we go." (7 words).
Jack Nicholls on BBC seems to have coined the phrase "All five lights are on, and we are racing in...." or more famously in Formula E "...and we go green in.....")
Anyway, the most annoying words in the history of Formula 1? "Valterri it's James"

Actually for me, the most annoying words were the girl's names that Vettel used to give his cars. Haven't heard any of that nonsense for a while thankfully.

Joeface · 01-10-2019 2:10pm

flazio wrote: »

Anyway, the most annoying words in the history of Formula 1? "Valterri it's James"

Ha ha

that must be just awful for Bottas as well . I mean you know its crap when he comes on . Bottas should just stop on track some day

Spudman_20000 · 01-10-2019 4:31pm

Anjobe wrote: »

"Lights out and away we go..."? (I know that's 6).

Just as Ferrari got a bit lucky with the unexpectedly large undercut last week? In each case the team had to perform well with regards to both the driver and the strategy in order to be in a position to take advantage of their good fortune.

In this race Mercedes went for a bold strategy to start on the medium tyres and Hamilton drove well to keep pace with the Ferraris in their first stint and then go a bit longer. It was a lucky win, but not completely undeserved.

I'm not disputing the win, it's just the creaming themselves over the radio that annoys me

AMKC · 01-10-2019 8:21pm

Anjobe wrote: »

Actually for me, the most annoying words were the girl's names that Vettel used to give his cars. Haven't heard any of that nonsense for a while thankfully.

I had no problem with that. Lots of people name there cars.

One phrase I hated was

'' Alonso is faster than you''

Sure if he was faster ten he should have just passed Felipe instead of team orders to let him pass.

Anjobe · 02-10-2019 9:38am

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

I'm not disputing the win, it's just the creaming themselves over the radio that annoys me

Vettel looked pretty pleased with himself after being gifted a win last week too. Why single out Hamilton & Mercedes? There's quite enough of that nonsense on this forum.

Inviere · 03-10-2019 11:41am

AMKC wrote: »

I had no problem with that. Lots of people name there cars.

One phrase I hated was

'' Alonso is faster than you''

Sure if he was faster ten he should have just passed Felipe instead of team orders to let him pass.

Pre-DRS. Alonso was actually faster if I recall correctly, but couldn't close the gap once in dirty air.

rock22 · 05-10-2019 11:10am

vectra wrote: »

I would point the finger squarely at Vettel.

I have watched the (recorded) race over and over again. And I cannot see how anyone thinks Leclerc helped Vettel.

True , slip streaming helped, but that is always there in a start. At the start, LeClerc moved to the right initially, presumably to block Hamilton but Vettel overtook Hamilton and it was Vettel that was partly blocked. Going as far right as possible Vettel had the better line at the second, RH, corner and past LeClerc. I cannot see how LeClerc in any way helped him.

Why then would Vettel be expected to give the place back? I really fail to understand this new F1 rule book.

TCP/IP · 05-10-2019 11:25am

rock22 wrote: »

I have watched the (recorded) race over and over again. And I cannot see how anyone thinks Leclerc helped Vettel.

True , slip streaming helped, but that is always there in a start. At the start, LeClerc moved to the right initially, presumably to block Hamilton but Vettel overtook Hamilton and it was Vettel that was partly blocked. Going as far right as possible Vettel had the better line at the second, RH, corner and past LeClerc. I cannot see how LeClerc in any way helped him.

Why then would Vettel be expected to give the place back? I really fail to understand this new F1 rule book.

Totally agree Seb crushed all the others on the start and got up the road and out of DRS fabulous bit of racing. Ferrari themselves through ruined it.

vectra · 05-10-2019 1:27pm

rock22 wrote: »

I have watched the (recorded) race over and over again. And I cannot see how anyone thinks Leclerc helped Vettel.

True , slip streaming helped, but that is always there in a start. At the start, LeClerc moved to the right initially, presumably to block Hamilton but Vettel overtook Hamilton and it was Vettel that was partly blocked. Going as far right as possible Vettel had the better line at the second, RH, corner and past LeClerc. I cannot see how LeClerc in any way helped him.

Why then would Vettel be expected to give the place back? I really fail to understand this new F1 rule book.

TCP/IP wrote: »

Totally agree Seb crushed all the others on the start and got up the road and out of DRS fabulous bit of racing. Ferrari themselves through ruined it.

Well, If you look at the 3 previous races. Charles held his lead over Vettel, so it appears being in front looks like the beat place to be to make up ground.
Had Charles gave Hamilton the slipstream instead, where do you think Vettel would have wound up?

TCP/IP · 05-10-2019 2:20pm

vectra wrote: »

Well, If you look at the 3 previous races. Charles held his lead over Vettel, so it appears being in front looks like the beat place to be to make up ground.
Had Charles gave Hamilton the slipstream instead, where do you think Vettel would have wound up?

Well as his ERS failed he would have ended up not finishing.

vectra · 05-10-2019 7:59pm

TCP/IP wrote: »

Well as his ERS failed he would have ended up not finishing.

Thanks for enlighting me :pac:

TCP/IP · 05-10-2019 9:12pm

vectra wrote: »

Thanks for enlighting me :pac:

No problem just answering your question.

rock22 · 06-10-2019 8:55am

vectra wrote: »

Well, If you look at the 3 previous races. Charles held his lead over Vettel, so it appears being in front looks like the beat place to be to make up ground.
..

I assume then that Leclerc gave up those places to Vettel, on Ferraris orders, and that this was in some way a pay back?

vectra · 06-10-2019 10:16am

rock22 wrote: »

I assume then that Leclerc gave up those places to Vettel, on Ferraris orders, and that this was in some way a pay back?

Eh??

F1 2019 - Round 16 Russia

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