RTB seeing the light!

Cuddlesworth · 28-10-2019 11:13am

The_Conductor wrote: »

Keep in mind- throughout the worsening of the homeless crisis- local authorities in Ireland have sold 4,512 private residences since January 2014 (according to a PQ answered by the Minister in the D recently). Local authorities are continuing to sell properties. That single factor is the height of absolute madness- and the number of properties sold in the last 5 years is more that sufficient to cater for the entirety of the current homeless crisis. Instead- the government have insisted on outsourcing the homeless issue to the private sector.

The sole factor, the sale of pre-existing local authority housing stock- would have been sufficient to cater for the current official homeless numbers. Why are inconvenient truths like this not trumpeted in a similar manner to all the more convenient scapegoats?

As long as you have lifetime social housing, it makes little difference if they sell or not sell. You have 4.5k houses in which the tenants were clearly happy with living there and had no intention of moving on. To me, its simply a small cash boost for assets whose value could never be realized and the overall ongoing reliance on council funds reduced by 4.5k households.

godtabh · 28-10-2019 12:24pm

Moomoomacshoe wrote: »

There you go..my point is im sick of the poor LL mouth. Of course it is a business..noone expects anyone to make zero profit..i assure you most are just getting greedier and the greed has consumed them.

It's a business therefore LL should abide by the rules; you cant just throw people out to illegally hike up rents. Or expect tenants to sit quietly dont rock the boat, the amount of stuff they get away with beggars belief. Why should we feel sorry for LL ...if its a business then follow the rules, simple.

I have zero sympathy sorry I've seen so much as I've said.

Being a landlord is not treated as business in the eye of the government. If it was it maybe more attractive to be a LL. but it isn’t.

Varik · 28-10-2019 12:45pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Why would you need to challenge it, when you can just ignore it. A couple of months ago on the late night Matt Cooper show they said rents had increased 14% in Dublin in one year, after the RPZ came in. A couple of weeks ago there was an article in The Cork Examiner saying there had not been one application for planning since new legislation about short lets was introduced, that is zero applications in the.city of Cork.

If a rent freeze is introduced, it would be ignored too. Bad legislation leads to bad compliance. Unfortunately our housing minister is too inept to understand that making the rental market less appealing for Landlords just makes a bad situation much worse. To increase stock, you have to entice investors, no investors, no housing stock, the Government aren’t going to build them.

There's a difference between the average rent going up above the 4% and what a particular rent can up up by per year.

The average rent it going up above the 4% because new rental properties can set whatever initial rent they like thereby Increasing the average, and large amount of rentals stuck at lower rates are being sold again raising the average.

The_Conductor · 28-10-2019 12:49pm

Varik wrote: »

There's a difference between the average rent going up above the 4% and what a particular rent can up up by per year.

The average rent it going up above the 4% because new rental properties can set whatever initial rent they like thereby Increasing the average, and large amount of rentals stuck at lower rates are being sold again raising the average.

Selling a property- if it is relet- does not extinguish its previous rent level. The rent level is associated with the property- not with ownership of the property. Of course- removing lower rent units from the market altogether- as in- selling units to prospective owner occupiers- will increase the average.

Moomoomacshoe · 28-10-2019 1:21pm

Dav010 wrote: »

If it’s a business, it should work like any other business, if the service is not paid for or abused, the service should be withdrawn. But we all know it is not like any other business.

You are absolutely correct when you say LL are in it for profit, or in the case of those in negative equity, to survive until they loss reduces, why on God’s earth would they be in it to make a loss or just break even? That would be nonsensical, do you work for free or make investments to make a loss? If your bank said that had an investment opportunity that would make you a loss every year, would you invest?

I’m not a poor landlord, but I am a wary one, and even though rents have increased since I bought during the recession, I am selling up as tenants move out. I am literally sitting at my desk reading through a sale contract for a rental property. Who needs the hassle?

The problem is the LL treating it like a business when it suits them but not allowing tenants to treat like a business transaction. As a tenant if you are to be business like..say x y z is wrong, needs to be fixed, documentation etc you are treated as an annoying tenant not worth having. It's a power struggle.

And no to other poster..I would not expect any business to be illegally making profits. Is tax evasion ok.. k mean im entitled to my salary increase?? Comparing to a salary increase is a joke..illegally evicting tenants in order to hike up the rent almost double is not acceptable business practice and is indeed breaking all legislation. Let me tell you this is happening all over Ireland right now.

Varik · 28-10-2019 2:25pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Selling a property- if it is relet- does not extinguish its previous rent level. The rent level is associated with the property- not with ownership of the property. Of course- removing lower rent units from the market altogether- as in- selling units to prospective owner occupiers- will increase the average.

Never suggested it did. Majority of properties arnt re-let, thereby increasing average.

28-10-2019 2:55pm

Moomoomacshoe wrote: »

The problem is the LL treating it like a business when it suits them but not allowing tenants to treat like a business transaction. As a tenant if you are to be business like..say x y z is wrong, needs to be fixed, documentation etc you are treated as an annoying tenant not worth having. It's a power struggle.

Sorry, but this is nonsense.

So many posters have come on here saying renting should be treated like a business and if LLs not not prepared to, or able to take the loses as well as the gains, then they should not be in it.

As another poster said, small landlords do not consider it a business, simply because you cannot operate it like a typical business. A property owner in a RPZ is not free to provide a service in an open market, nor can they exercise their right to withdraw a service when it is not being paid for or abused, like they would be allowed to do in most other businesses.

A tenant stops being worth having when they not abide by their rental agreement, the main gripe LLs is not being able to remove an errant tenant. I do agree that the LL should provide a property which satisfies the regulations, and I have no issue with those that don’t being penalised. But when a tenant can stop paying rent, confident in the knowledge that it could take a year or more to remove them and the owner has virtually no chance of recovering lost money, I will not concede that fault lies with greedy landlords.

Again, even a rudimentary understanding of how markets work should be enough for anyone to see that LLs leaving a market where rents are at record highs is symptomatic of something being very wrong.

Fol20 · 28-10-2019 3:58pm

Moomoomacshoe wrote: »

The problem is the LL treating it like a business when it suits them but not allowing tenants to treat like a business transaction. As a tenant if you are to be business like..say x y z is wrong, needs to be fixed, documentation etc you are treated as an annoying tenant not worth having. It's a power struggle.

And no to other poster..I would not expect any business to be illegally making profits. Is tax evasion ok.. k mean im entitled to my salary increase?? Comparing to a salary increase is a joke..illegally evicting tenants in order to hike up the rent almost double is not acceptable business practice and is indeed breaking all legislation. Let me tell you this is happening all over Ireland right now.

Like any service industry, you have good and bad buyers(tenants in this case). If you buy food in a restaurant but you have a load of complaints and unique requests, I think the chef is meant to oblige to a degree but is also not happy. Housing is similar. Some tenants expect you to go above and beyond in certain items when it isn’t required.

Where did anyone say tax evasion? Yes there are some that do it but the vast majority do not. In this day and age, you would be a fool to try tax evasion. Your generalising this without backing this up with hard facts.

Please elaborate as to why comparing a rental to your paye salary a joke. Both have the same objective - to make as much money as possible.

There are also ways to increase above the 4pc rule but you view this as greed or should not be possible even though you agree it’s a business. It seems like it’s a loose loose for ll from your point of view as everything they do is wrong.

Samuel T. Cogley · 29-10-2019 6:08pm

I notice Berlin being mentioned. Note anything built in the last five years is exempt and new builds are exempt. REITs got their claws in there too I see.

beauf · 29-10-2019 6:15pm

Sweet for them.

The_Conductor · 29-10-2019 7:41pm

The core tenet of a tax system is that is has to be seen to be fair and equitable.
It is not fair or equitable- where one category of landlord, in this case, receives preferential treatment to other landlords.
I don't know why Irish taxpayers put up with this gross inequity- or why Germans do- by rights both sets of respective taxpayers, should make their displeasure felt and communicate loudly to their elected representatives, that this is no acceptable.

RTB seeing the light!

Comments