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LL wants to move back.

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    #32
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,099 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Fol20 wrote: »
    This guy is talking about overstaying which is illegal and can’t be discussed on boards. You may also struggle to get a reference if you do this. Your name might be linked to RTB if a dispute is lodged so just be careful about thinking this way

    I was more pointing out the pitfalls to a LL giving the minimum notice in the midst of a housing shortage.

    It's also not illegal to dispute a termination notice is it?


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    #33
    Renting2018
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Renting2018


    Many thanks to all that have given useful information.
    Here’s hoping things work out for us.


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    #34
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Browney7 wrote: »
    I was more pointing out the pitfalls to a LL giving the minimum notice in the midst of a housing shortage.

    It's also not illegal to dispute a termination notice is it?

    I edited my original response to include some ramifications if done.

    It is not illegal to dispute a termination notice if the dispute is valid. Based on the way you expressed it, it sounds like you want to lodge a dispute knowing full well that it is valid to buy more time for them so in effect overstaying. This auto correct on a phone is killing me with the way it phrased my words :)


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    #35
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    OP- you defacto have 7 months notice- you've been told the landlord is going to require the property from July 2019.
    You do not have a formal notice from the landlord (yet)- though if you push the point he/she may give you formal notice- to ensure they have vacant possession by that time.

    If you are unable to find alternate accommodation before the elapse of the notice period- the general advice (from Threshold) is to overhold- which is a breach of the Residential Tenancies Act- and if/when the landlord brings a case to the RTB- you will have a case lodged against you (the details of which will be on the RTB website).

    If the landlord requires the property for his own use- unfortunately for you- he/she is entitled to his/her property- providing they give you proper notice- and there is no 'get-out' clause to allow you stay in the property.

    Mrs Bumble has advised you apply to the local authority housing list- you should do this regardless of any factor (and totally ignoring whether or not there are in fact local authority/council properties available). Aside from any other reason- it unlocks eligibility for local authority housing schemes such as HAP.

    I know its not a nice situation to be in- however, look at it as a 7 month notice- rather than antagonising the situation and precipitating an early serving of notice from the landlord. If you do manage to find somewhere else early- the fact that the landlord can't do a short term rental- is not your concern- as you don't have a lease- you're there on Part IV provisions- all you have to do is uphold your obligations under the Act.

    I fully understand the position you're in- and appreciate that its highly stressful- however, you do have time on your side- 7 months- you *need* to use this time to the best advantage- and do your utmost to try and locate alternate accommodation- where-ever that may be.

    I know this isn't what you want to hear- and I also know its a shock to the system- particularly in the run-up to Christmas- all I can say is I'm sorry I don't have better news for you.


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    #36
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,099 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Fol20 wrote: »
    I edited my original response to include some ramifications if done.

    It is not illegal to dispute a termination notice if the dispute is valid. Based on the way you expressed it, it sounds like you want to lodge a knowing full well that it is valid to buy more time for them so in affect overstaying

    And the arbiter on the validity is the RTB - who knows, the op's LL might get it wrong ;-)


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    #37
    10pennymixup
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭10pennymixup


    Renting2018 wrote: »
    Can you expand on those rights Browney? As we could be in the same situation. We can’t vacate our home if we have nowhere to go. What are our rights in that case??
    Browney7 wrote: »
    You just refuse to leave and dispute the validity of the notice and get a few months until an RTB adjudication hearing. Not that Ive ever done this nor am I advocating it but if a tenant refuses to leave after a valid termination notice it can be a pain to remove them - plenty LLs on here wax lyrical about similar situations.

    Tenant of course ruins references and has an RTB hearing against them but it sure beats the street

    Browney is not expanding on your rights here. He is explaining possible courses of action you could take after receiving a valid notice. Which are basically to frustrate the RTB adjudication and appeals process, and/ or illegally overhold.

    Using the RTB process improperly to you own ends may get a bit more time.

    Overhold and the LL has to go through the legal process to remove you. And as Browney says it can be a "real pain", and expensive for the LL.

    In the case of a tenant that has little or no means, there is no point in the LL chasing the tenant for costs. In your case however..... property owner, employed, one or two cars......

    Just one thing to consider.

    And as a BTW, paying your rent on time is what you are supposed to do as a tenant, and does not make you a "perfect" tenant. It just doesn't make you a bad one.

    And why are you editing/ deleting your posts????


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    #38
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Browney7 wrote: »
    And the arbiter on the validity is the RTB - who knows, the op's LL might get it wrong ;-)

    This goes back to a flaw in the system and is why ll complain so much about it. Yes it can be abused but your opening yourself up to being potentially blacklisted when your name is on the RTB website. If you know it’s a legit eviction, why fight it especially if it’s a legit eviction.


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    #39
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Browney7 wrote: »
    And the arbiter on the validity is the RTB - who knows, the op's LL might get it wrong ;-)

    In which case- the landlord simply relodges the notice- the only stay will be the duration of the notice (which if he got it wrong the first time- presumably he'll/she'll cop on and get it right on a subsequent attempt). One way or another- you're only buying a couple of weeks- if it is a valid reason under the act to terminate the tenancy (which if the landlord requires the property him/herself- it is).

    Unfortunately the landlord has to live somewhere themselves too. Its rearing its head quite a bit recently- as people who emigrated during the downturn and let out their homes- decide to come back- and sometimes long term tenants are being asked to vacate properties they had hoped would be their long term homes.


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    #40
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Fol20 wrote: »
    This goes back to a flaw in the system and is why ll complain so much about it. Yes it can be abused but your opening yourself up to being potentially blacklisted when your name is on the RTB website. If you know it’s a legit eviction, why fight it especially if it’s a legit eviction.

    Just for reasons of clarity- its a termination of the tenancy- it is *not* an eviction- which is something else entirely.


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    #41
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Just for reasons of clarity- its a termination of the tenancy- it is *not* an eviction- which is something else entirely.

    Apologies. Your right.


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    #42
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,732 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Renting2018 wrote: »
    And where would you suggest we live in the meantime? While waiting for a non existent council house or applying for non existent higher paying jobs and saving to buy a house?!
    If you can find a solution to that in the next 6mths then you’re a miracle worker.

    Are you on the council housing list? How long have you been on it?

    You say that council houses are non-existant but really they are scarce, not non-existent. You will not get one unless you are on the list though.

    If you have to move out before finding somewhere else to go, you present yourself to the council as homeless. They have a legal requirement to accommodate you.

    Get rid of the pets (if you cannot afford housing, you cannot afford to be feeding animals. Prepare the kids for the idea that they might be going to a different school next year. Yes, they'll whine about their friends. But there are new friends to be made, they'll get over it. Start looking for accommodation anywhere within reasonable commuting distance of your job.

    And lose the attitude about no higher paying jobs. In a labour market with almost full employment, that's just BS.


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    #43
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,099 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Fol20 wrote: »
    This goes back to a flaw in the system and is why ll complain so much about it. Yes it can be abused but your opening yourself up to being potentially blacklisted when your name is on the RTB website. If you know it’s a legit eviction, why fight it especially if it’s a legit eviction.

    You are indeed putting a black mark against yourself (and I pointed this out) but if you are in a high demand area with a family you will struggle to compete against professionals but it sure beats the family hub or a b&b or emergency accomodation if you've no where to go.


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    #44
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Browney7 wrote: »
    You are indeed putting a black mark against yourself (and I pointed this out) but if you are in a high demand area with a family you will struggle to compete against professionals but it sure beats the family hub or a b&b or emergency accomodation if you've no where to go.

    Personally I’m open to family’s. It depends on the property and current standard of the property. Family will have greater wear and tear however there is less turnover and they tend to stay longer.


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    #45
    Renting2018
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Renting2018


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Are you on the council housing list? How long have you been on it?

    You say that council houses are non-existant but really they are scarce, not non-existent. You will not get one unless you are on the list though.

    If you have to move out before finding somewhere else to go, you present yourself to the council as homeless. They have a legal requirement to accommodate you.

    Get rid of the pets (if you cannot afford housing, you cannot afford to be feeding animals. Prepare the kids for the idea that they might be going to a different school next year. Yes, they'll whine about their friends. But there are new friends to be made, they'll get over it. Start looking for accommodation anywhere within reasonable commuting distance of your job.

    And lose the attitude about no higher paying jobs. In a labour market with almost full employment, that's just BS.

    Gosh, life is so simple when you type it out like that isn’t it?

    Rural Ireland, limited jobs, we earn just enough to not qualify for a council house, but not enough to pay any more rent than we already are, which has increased by €400 in 4yrs. We can feed our pets just fine, it’s finding a LL willing to rent to us is where they become an issue.

    I’ll just tell the kids that as well as leaving behind the only life they’ve ever known, friends, school, now they have to leave their pets too?
    Have you ever had to sit down and say such a thing to a six year old who is already crying that she has to leave her house again???

    Do you ever think of the human beings behind the posts on this website. The mothers in tears because their lives are falling apart? When a real threat of homelessness is hanging over them, when every last cent they have is already accounted for and they have no idea who to turn to or who can help?


    Lovely to see that Boards members are as compassionate as ever when it comes to the lives of people looking for some advice in a situation not of their own making.
    I hope you feel good about the replies you post here and the effects they can have on the person reading them.


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    #46
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Closing as thread incoherent with deleted posts now.


This discussion has been closed.
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