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HBO temporarily pulls Gone with the Wind from streaming

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    #62
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    pixelburp wrote: »
    "Mammy Two Shoes" has been addressed for years now, often either re-animated or dubbed IIRC. Same with most cartoons of that era that used blackface, slitty eyes or smoking in their gags. Easy enough to revise, and I presume Tom & Jerry purists aren't that vocal or many.
    That's not the point I was making, and well you know it.


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    #63
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    bb12 wrote: »
    and Ford...and Hugo Boss...and Fanta

    oh and the Japanese did some pretty nasty things to their POWs so I guess all Japanese electronics, motors etc too

    and while we're at it, China's horrendous human rights record...so stop all Chinese imports too
    Coca Cola were prominent users of "white only" signs at their factories in the US a few decades ago.


    71abcfa80ee13fc8cfbf3d8ab910b652--sociological-imagination-politics.jpg


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    #64
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,209 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    tastyt wrote: »
    Wake me up when it’s not a sin to be white anymore

    I genuinely cannot comprehend the mindset that compels anybody to post something like this. It’s so patently, unambiguously absurd.


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    #65
    WengerOutIn
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭WengerOutIn


    We seriously need to ban ikea. Vikings have a lot to answer for. And abba. Abba need to go. No more waterloo from them looney vikings.


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    #66
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,951 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    ELM327 wrote: »
    That's not the point I was making, and well you know it.

    Oh I know, you're just doing the usual - oh bless us save us from the PC police - but what's the harm in rejigging some superficial cartoons to be a little less blatantly racist? We live in a multi-cultural age, black kids watch cartoons too and they pick up these things. There's no victims in this case, but *shrug*


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    #67
    WengerOutIn
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭WengerOutIn


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Oh I know, you're just doing the usual - oh bless us save us from the PC police - but what's the harm in rejigging some superficial cartoons to be a little less blatantly racist? We live in a multi-cultural age, black kids watch cartoons too and they pick up these things. There's no victims in this case, but *shrug*

    So where do you draw the line?


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    #68
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Oh I know, you're just doing the usual - oh bless us save us from the PC police - but what's the harm in rejigging some superficial cartoons to be a little less blatantly racist? We live in a multi-cultural age, black kids watch cartoons too and they pick up these things. There's no victims in this case, but *shrug*
    The point is, it doesnt matter, it's a function of its time.


    Even MLK's speech (and any associated newsreel footage and commentary) would be unsuitable for modern audiences, were it not presented as a function of its time, due to the use of the word Negro.


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    #69
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    WengerOutIn wrote: »
    So where do you draw the line?
    IMO you should stop this censorship.
    Instead just allow things to exist and if there's any problems add a caveat piece first stating it is a feature of the time it was produced. Tom and Jerry for example is over 60 years old. When it was released, there was legal segregation.


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    #70
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Outrage junkies out in force on this one - makes perfect sense what they're doing by presenting the film later with some additional context. It is one of favourite films, but it really doesn't show the true cruelty of slavery and it certainly doesn't make Irish people look very good either!


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    #71
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I better go download myself a copy of Blazing Saddles so...before it gets edited to add in "This is sarcasm" captions all over the place.


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    #72
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,951 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    ELM327 wrote: »
    The point is, it doesnt matter, it's a function of its time.


    Even MLK's speech (and any associated newsreel footage and commentary) would be unsuitable for modern audiences, were it not presented as a function of its time, due to the use of the word Negro.

    Those two scenarios don't track; one demonstrates the changing dynamic of the use of negro in language, especially in the African American community, the other is a blatantly racist archetype in a kid's cartoon. One that served no purpose beyond "we need a pair of legs for a token human" when Tom gets whacked with a broom. It doesn't NEED to be racist, doesn't require subtitles or a 30 minute prep video to explain the historic structure of middle to upper class White Suburbia.

    And again, Gone with the Wind isn't gone. The context is in the OP. It'll have some context added, this is not censorship. But we've gone into comparisons with the Khmer Rouge and the usual "what next?" whataboutery.


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    #73
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,209 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Very easy to make the uncensored, original Tom & Jerry cartoons available for archival purposes and the public interest - that should 100% be the case.

    Early 20th century racial stereotypes shouldn’t be part of daytime TV kid’s programming.

    These two viewpoints aren’t mutually exclusive :)


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    #74
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,209 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I better go download myself a copy of Blazing Saddles so...before it gets edited to add in "This is sarcasm" captions all over the place.

    Except Gone with the Wind isn’t being edited - watching the film will be exactly the same as ever.

    Every time I’ve seen a note about ‘outdated racial stereotypes’ or whatnot before a film it’s been a simple text disclaimer before the film itself plays out in its original, completely unedited form.


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    #75
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I guess my opposition is we should not be censoring anything.

    One of the most important films ever made in terms of its impact on society at the time (arguably till now) is the silent film "birth of a nation".
    I guess this won't be censored because the super woke PC police don't have the attention span to watch a film that is 3 hours long and silent, but it was responsible for the rebirth of the KKK and racial tensions in the US in the 20's and the race riots in the 60's. You could argue that it even reaches to today in terms of legacy and knock on effects.

    Now I'm not saying we should watch it and aspire to be racists, I'm saying it's an important part of history, just like "The King and I" and "Gone with the Wind", and should always be available.


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    #76
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    Except Gone with the Wind isn’t being edited - watching the film will be exactly the same as ever.

    Every time I’ve seen a note about ‘outdated racial stereotypes’ or whatnot before a film it’s been a simple text disclaimer before the film itself plays out in its original, completely unedited form.
    This I have no problem with at all


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    #77
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Even father ted, with the blackface, the square piece of dirt (and other nazi references), and the chinese, wouldnt be made today, and that went over our heads as kids/teens.

    I think that would be fine, well they'd pull the Ching Chong Chinaman hat moment of boredom even though he is immediately embarrassed by that, as stupid racists might copy it.

    But otherwise the joke is always on Ted not the Chinese. And Ted himself is of course seen as hapless/unfortunate/unlucky esp compared to the actual Nazi's in the house of Father Seamus Fitzpatrick! :D


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    #78
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    I think that would be fine, well they'd pull the Ching Chong Chinaman hat moment of boredom even though he is immediately embarrassed by that, as stupid racists might copy it.

    But otherwise the joke is always on Ted not the Chinese. And Ted himself is of course seen as hapless/unfortunate/unlucky esp compared to the actual Nazi's in the house of Father Seamus Fitzpatrick! :D
    Again, it should not be censored. At all.
    Censorship belongs in dictatorships.


    If I want to publish a cartoon dictating how birds fly, that muhammad and jesus are gay together, or anything in between, I should have that freedom of speech in a free society.


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    #79
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    Except Gone with the Wind isn’t being edited - watching the film will be exactly the same as ever.

    Every time I’ve seen a note about ‘outdated racial stereotypes’ or whatnot before a film it’s been a simple text disclaimer before the film itself plays out in its original, completely unedited form.

    Yep, I saw Dambusters in the IFI last year it had a similar disclaimer, the right way to go about it, didn't affect the film itself at all, I do love seeing the alt right types on boards getting all riled up about a film they have never seen and have no interest in though!


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    #80
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I guess my opposition is we should not be censoring anything.

    One of the most important films ever made in terms of its impact on society at the time (arguably till now) is the silent film "birth of a nation".
    I guess this won't be censored because the super woke PC police don't have the attention span to watch a film that is 3 hours long and silent, but it was responsible for the rebirth of the KKK and racial tensions in the US in the 20's and the race riots in the 60's. You could argue that it even reaches to today in terms of legacy and knock on effects.

    Now I'm not saying we should watch it and aspire to be racists, I'm saying it's an important part of history, just like "The King and I" and "Gone with the Wind", and should always be available.

    Scenes from that movie were shown in the Spike Lee film Black Klannsmann.

    The PC brigade seem to be very aware of the movie and its effect on promoting racism and the KKK.


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    #81
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Technocentral wrote: »
    Yep, I saw Dambusters in the IFI last year it had a similar disclaimer...

    Re the black dog's name presumably.


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    #82
    Nicky88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 30 ✭Nicky88


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I guess my opposition is we should not be censoring anything.

    One of the most important films ever made in terms of its impact on society at the time (arguably till now) is the silent film "birth of a nation".
    I guess this won't be censored because the super woke PC police don't have the attention span to watch a film that is 3 hours long and silent, but it was responsible for the rebirth of the KKK and racial tensions in the US in the 20's and the race riots in the 60's. You could argue that it even reaches to today in terms of legacy and knock on effects.

    Now I'm not saying we should watch it and aspire to be racists, I'm saying it's an important part of history, just like "The King and I" and "Gone with the Wind", and should always be available.
    Wrong gone with arse wind was the most important especially


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    #83
    The Raging Bile Duct
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭The Raging Bile Duct


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Re the black dog's name presumably.

    I thought it was because it was damist...


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    #84
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    Thoughts? They have gone too far this time.


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    #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tchaikovsky wrote: »
    Looking back to my childhood, there was a whole heap of racist cartoons. I mean, blatantly racist, like Song of the South, with Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby.

    Song of The South was controversial at the time too... There were nationwide protests at the time, certain posters would no doubt classify them as the woke brigade.

    http://picturethis.museumca.org/pictures/song-south-protest

    Also I'd totally be fine with Disney releasing it alongside a disclaimer at the beginning. The reason they don't is because it was a terrible look for them.


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    #86
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Re the black dog's name presumably.

    Great film, will give it a watch tonight.


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    #87
    The Raging Bile Duct
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭The Raging Bile Duct


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I guess my opposition is we should not be censoring anything.

    One of the most important films ever made in terms of its impact on society at the time (arguably till now) is the silent film "birth of a nation".
    I guess this won't be censored because the super woke PC police don't have the attention span to watch a film that is 3 hours long and silent, but it was responsible for the rebirth of the KKK and racial tensions in the US in the 20's and the race riots in the 60's. You could argue that it even reaches to today in terms of legacy and knock on effects.

    Now I'm not saying we should watch it and aspire to be racists, I'm saying it's an important part of history, just like "The King and I" and "Gone with the Wind", and should always be available.

    Birth of a Nation hasn't been censored as far as I can tell... you can pick up a copy of it if you want. Masters of Cinema have a version of it for sale. It's an important part of the history of movies.

    I wouldn't be the super woke PC police but I don't think I have it in me to sit through 3 hours of silent cinema. Have you watched it yourself?


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    #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »
    I thought it was because it was damist...

    Is it still okay to portray Nazi's as baddies... just checking. :pac:


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    #89
    The Raging Bile Duct
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭The Raging Bile Duct


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Song of The South was controversial at the time too... There were nationwide protests at the time, certain posters would no doubt classify them as the woke brigade.

    http://picturethis.museumca.org/pictures/song-south-protest

    Also I'd totally be fine with Disney releasing it alongside a disclaimer at the beginning. The reason they don't is because it was a terrible look for them.

    We've got Disney Plus and they've redubbed all the curse words and out of the eighties movies. There's no way they're going to touch Song of the South at all.


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    #90
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Read the whole article!

    "When the movie returns to the platform it will be “with a discussion of its historical context and a denouncement of those very depictions,

    but will be presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed.

    If we are to create a more just, equitable and inclusive future, we must first acknowledge and understand our history.”

    Nothing is being removed. Something is being added.

    I don't know about you but when I want to discuss a film after seeing it, I'll seek that out. And not discussing it doesn't mean I didn't understand it or consider the historical aspects and how things have changed. How will HBO present this "discussion"? Sounds mighty patronising to me.


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    #91
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »
    Birth of a Nation hasn't been censored as far as I can tell... you can pick up a copy of it if you want. Masters of Cinema have a version of it for sale. It's an important part of the history of movies.

    I wouldn't be the super woke PC police but I don't think I have it in me to sit through 3 hours of silent cinema. Have you watched it yourself?
    I have sat through it twice but now if I do, it's in batches. As a piece of film making it is remarkable and needs to be seen but extremely hard work given the repulsive nature of the story. As has been said about it is too good a film to be just ignored.


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