Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

Buer · 19-02-2019 10:45am

I can completely see the arguments for retaining Fardy and I'm sure the case is being made to the IRFU.

But I can also see why they would turn around and say that there's no room at the inn for him. If we take him out of the picture, we still have Ryan. Toner, Kearney and Molony before we dip into the academy resources who are all very highly rated. This is assuming Ian Nagle is not retained.

Those options (minus Toner and Ryan) should be sufficient to manage Leinster through the RWC period, in fairness. It wouldn't be ideal but I can completely understand if the IRFU said that it's time for Molony and Kearney to consistently step up to the next level with one of them (most likely Molony) taking a spot in our European 23. Both already have experience in Europe and have performed really well this season. We'll need to put our full faith in them at some point.

Eod100 · 19-02-2019 11:13am

Good news here:

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1097799185116659712

Clegg · 19-02-2019 11:38am

Bloody delighted. Vital player for Leinster and Ireland.

Hopefully we'll start seeing more contract renewals for Leinster players in the coming weeks.

salmocab · 19-02-2019 11:40am

But what happened to the one person who claimed they heard a rumor he was heading back to Connacht? Was he just fibbing?

KBurke85 · 19-02-2019 11:45am

salmocab wrote: »

But what happened to the one person who claimed they heard a rumor he was heading back to Connacht? Was he just fibbing?

Its that time of the year. Dillane was off to Munster. Buckley was off to Ulster so of course Henshaw was heading to Connacht.

Also the 3 year swap deal with Kelleher was over:D

Jewelers · 19-02-2019 3:16pm

will lowe play against the kings this week ?

arsebiscuits1 · 19-02-2019 3:58pm

Jewelers wrote: »

will lowe play against the kings this week ?

Definitely. At this stage he nearly has to. He hasn't played since Scarlets.

I'd be leaving JGP out of this entirely nearly and include Fardy to get HOS some decent ball

salmocab · 19-02-2019 3:58pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Definitely. At this stage he nearly has to. He hasn't played since Scarlets.

I'd be leaving JGP out of this entirely nearly and include Fardy to get HOS some decent ball

I’d say that’s about the size of it alright

arsebiscuits1 · 19-02-2019 4:18pm

salmocab wrote: »

I’d say that’s about the size of it alright

That and there's a tough run of games up ahead and Luke McGrath isn't fit.

We need 2 wins without a bonus point from the next 2 weeks to mathematically guarantee first place so it's essentially all but done.

I don't think we need to risk JGP in one of these games when a load of academy lads supplemented by Jack McGrath, Porter, Fardy, Lowe and Ross Byrne will steer the ship home comfortably this weekend.

Probable 23 as a result for me:

McGrath, Byrne, Porter
Molony, Fardy
Murphy, Doris, Deegan
O'Sullivan, Byrne
COB, ROL
Lowe, Daly, Byrne
Kelleher, Dooley, Aungier, Dunne, Dowling, Patterson, Frawley, JOB

Buer · 19-02-2019 4:48pm

JGP has played in every game so far in 2019 so no issue with him sitting this one out.

With that said, our back ups at lock are strong so I'd be completely happy to see Fardy take a break too. In the bigger picture, we're going to have Luke McGrath back in a month and available for Europe for JGP is probably going to bench. However, Fardy is going to be starting against Ulster so we don't want him picking up any injuries either.

I don't think Jack McGrath will be start given he's with Ireland this week. A Dooley/Byrne combination will do the job, I imagine.

I've noticed Will Connors running about at training. I wonder if there's any chance of seeing him before the end of the 6N? He has already missed 6 months with the ACL injury. It'd be nice to have an actual openside available again. Plus, with Ulster on the horizon, we need someone to run around training with their ears taped up pretending to Marcel Coetzee.

errlloyd · 19-02-2019 5:00pm

I think JGP has McGrath under pressure tbh. McGrath was in poor form before injury and JGP has really kicked on. His box kicking is better. His passing is crisper. He's got 19 assists so far this season.

arsebiscuits1 · 19-02-2019 5:35pm

Buer wrote: »

I've noticed Will Connors running about at training. I wonder if there's any chance of seeing him before the end of the 6N? He has already missed 6 months with the ACL injury. It'd be nice to have an actual openside available again. Plus, with Ulster on the horizon, we need someone to run around training with their ears taped up pretending to Marcel Coetzee.

I don't think Connors will be back this season.

Usually the lads coming back from a long term there is a "they've started running/ pitch sessions" etc.

Poor old Porridge hasn't had any updates.

arsebiscuits1 · 19-02-2019 5:44pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I think JGP has McGrath under pressure tbh. McGrath was in poor form before injury and JGP has really kicked on. His box kicking is better. His passing is crisper. He's got 19 assists so far this season.

I think it's a bit of a misnomer to say Luke was in poor form.

Luke's 6 games for Leinster in the run up to his injury were all starts. 5 European Cup games and Munster away. The fewest amount of minutes he played was 61.

Sandwiched between those was the 4 test matches he was involved in also.

You wont hear me say JGP is a poor player, I rate him a lot, but while his passing and tempo is very good, Luke has been backed for all the biggest games and I think will continue to be so upon Lukes return

joseywhales · 19-02-2019 5:55pm

It's a bugbear of mine that poor form is used to describe players who are 100% returning from an injury or actually playing through injury, we should expect it to take a few games for players to regain match sharpness.

I think its a fairly consistent trend with Kearney, Sexton, Murray, SOB, J MCGrath etc

It happened to healy, he came through it and now he has "resurrected" his career, can it not just be as simple as players being fit and unfit due to compounding injuries rather than losing form?

troyzer · 19-02-2019 6:01pm

joseywhales wrote: »

It's a bugbear of mine that poor form is used to describe players who are 100% returning from an injury or actually playing through injury, we should expect it to take a few games for players to regain match sharpness.

I think its a fairly consistent trend with Kearney, Sexton, Murray, SOB, J MCGrath etc

It happened to healy, he came through it and now he has "resurrected" his career, can it not just be as simple as players being fit and unfit due to compounding injuries rather than losing form?

Murray has been back for three months and he's still playing ****.

Squidgy Black · 19-02-2019 8:47pm

joseywhales wrote: »

It's a bugbear of mine that poor form is used to describe players who are 100% returning from an injury or actually playing through injury, we should expect it to take a few games for players to regain match sharpness.

I think its a fairly consistent trend with Kearney, Sexton, Murray, SOB, J MCGrath etc

It happened to healy, he came through it and now he has "resurrected" his career, can it not just be as simple as players being fit and unfit due to compounding injuries rather than losing form?

I'd argue that Murray's well past the remit of saying he's still coming back to fitness, he was back in full training in November, and played against Zebre towards the end of November.

Richie_Rich89 · 20-02-2019 1:47pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Definitely. At this stage he nearly has to. He hasn't played since Scarlets.

I'd be leaving JGP out of this entirely nearly and include Fardy to get HOS some decent ball

Realistically, Leinster could get on just fine with none of their imports this weekend

1. Dooley
2. Tracy/Kelleher
3. Porter
4. Molony
5. Kearney
6. Murphy
7. Deegan
8. Doris
9. O'Sullivan
10. Byrne
11. O'Loughlin
12. O'Brien
13. O'Brien
14. Daly
15. Frawley

16. Byrne
17. Byrne
18. Abdaladze
19. Dunne
20. Aspil
21. Patterson
22. Reid
23. Mullin/McFadden

...should get on just fine

Former Former · 20-02-2019 1:53pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'd argue that Murray's well past the remit of saying he's still coming back to fitness, he was back in full training in November, and played against Zebre towards the end of November.

Just because a guy is fit enough to take the field doesn't mean he's fully fit.

Kearney took about two years to get back to 100%, POM wasn't even making the Irish squad for a long time after coming back, loads more examples.

stephen_n · 21-02-2019 10:05am

Former Former wrote: »

Just because a guy is fit enough to take the field doesn't mean he's fully fit.

Kearney took about two years to get back to 100%, POM wasn't even making the Irish squad for a long time after coming back, loads more examples.

Healy would probably be the best example of all.

Buer · 21-02-2019 10:14am

stephen_n wrote: »

Healy would probably be the best example of all.

It's incredible what you learn about these injury situations in hindsight. Healy had disc surgery in the summer of 2015, went to the RWC and played in every game.

We only learned this year about the nerve damage to his arm/hand which had led to him actually signing his retirement papers in advance of the tournament and then taking a long time to get back to full movement after he recovered slight movement whilst on holiday. But we were all wondering how his form was so far off the bloke who played in green from 2010 to 2014.

And he still hasn't recovered full use of his hand (and never will, seemingly).

stephen_n · 21-02-2019 10:23am

Buer wrote: »

It's incredible what you learn about these injury situations in hindsight. Healy had disc surgery in the summer of 2015, went to the RWC and played in every game.

We only learned this year about the nerve damage to his arm/hand which had led to him actually signing his retirement papers in advance of the tournament and then taking a long time to get back to full movement after he recovered slight movement whilst on holiday. But we were all wondering how his form was so far off the bloke who played in green from 2010 to 2014.

And he still hasn't recovered full use of his hand (and never will, seemingly).

And in the middle of that was a grade 3 hamstring tear. I think sometimes we forget that it takes time to recover fully from these injuries even when back playing. I’m sure Murray’s shoulder injury has impacted on his passing at the very least.

jonok28 · 21-02-2019 11:20am

stephen_n wrote: »

And in the middle of that was a grade 3 hamstring tear. I think sometimes we forget that it takes time to recover fully from these injuries even when back playing. I’m sure Murray’s shoulder injury has impacted on his passing at the very least.

Healy is an absolute beast, from what I hear he also has played with a bad ankle for a long time and had to have special boots made to provide extra support, he was told that he could have time to heal but during that time Jack McGrath was playing out of his skin and he played through the pain to try and compete, it took him significantly longer to get back to his best but he has been unreal player for Leinster and Ireland and whatever he chooses to do post world cup he has a place as one of Leinster and Ireland's greatest props.

stephen_n · 21-02-2019 11:44am

jonok28 wrote: »

Healy is an absolute beast, from what I hear he also has played with a bad ankle for a long time and had to have special boots made to provide extra support, he was told that he could have time to heal but during that time Jack McGrath was playing out of his skin and he played through the pain to try and compete, it took him significantly longer to get back to his best but he has been unreal player for Leinster and Ireland and whatever he chooses to do post world cup he has a place as one of Leinster and Ireland's greatest props.

Listening to that podcast with Luke, you realize that these guys are literally putting their bodies on the line for our entertainment. Those are life altering injuries he’s sustained and is now playing the best rugby of his life. A very driven man.

Clegg · 21-02-2019 1:00pm

Debut for Ronan Kelleher. Good to see Ferg back too. Lack of experience at 9 to accommodate Lowe and Fardy.

15. Barry Daly (31)
14. Fergus McFadden (173)
13. Conor O’Brien (13)
12. Noel Reid (115)
11. James Lowe (24)
10. Ross Byrne (63)
9. Hugh O’Sullivan (9)
1. Ed Byrne (36)
2. Rónan Kelleher (0)
3. Andrew Porter (46)
4. Ross Molony (79) CAPTAIN
5. Mick Kearney (46)
6. Josh Murphy (16)
7. Max Deegan (36)
8. Caelan Doris (10)

16. James Tracy (85)
17. Peter Dooley (57)
18. Michael Bent (117)
19. Jack Dunne (1)
20. Scott Fardy (36)
21. Paddy Patterson (1)
22. Jimmy O’Brien (4)
23. Rory O’Loughlin (56)

stephen.scrum · 21-02-2019 1:02pm

No Frawley or Vakh for 2nd game in a row is pretty disappointing.

Thought BB could have benched over Tracy too.

errlloyd · 21-02-2019 1:02pm

I feel sorry for Lowe, he's really been screwed by this Kolpak thing.

arsebiscuits1 · 21-02-2019 1:02pm

Clegg wrote: »

Debut for Ronan Kelleher. Good to see Ferg back too. Lack of experience at 9 to accommodate Lowe and Fardy.

15. Barry Daly (31)
14. Fergus McFadden (173)
13. Conor O’Brien (13)
12. Noel Reid (115)
11. James Lowe (24)
10. Ross Byrne (63)
9. Hugh O’Sullivan (9)
1. Ed Byrne (36)
2. Rónan Kelleher (0)
3. Andrew Porter (46)
4. Ross Molony (79) CAPTAIN
5. Mick Kearney (46)
6. Josh Murphy (16)
7. Max Deegan (36)
8. Caelan Doris (10)

16. James Tracy (85)
17. Peter Dooley (57)
18. Michael Bent (117)
19. Jack Dunne (1)
20. Scott Fardy (36)
21. Paddy Patterson (1)
22. Jimmy O’Brien (4)
23. Rory O’Loughlin (56)

I was pretty close with my prediction so ha.

Good decision to leave off JGP. Lowe needs a run out and it will benefit HOS and PP massively.

Looking forward to getting a look a Kelleher

Buer · 21-02-2019 1:03pm

Interesting team but this is the fixture to try it. Glad to see COB retained in the side with Reid getting a run out. He deserves it and has made a good impact whenever used in recent games.

Great opportunity to get lads like HOS, Kelleher, Dunne and Doris more game time.

Heymans · 21-02-2019 1:06pm

Deegan at 7 is sending a message - by hook or by crook the coaching staff will force him to stop avoiding hitting rucks in games. When that's his primary responsibility at 7 he can't avoid it any longer. Should toughen him up also.

arsebiscuits1 · 21-02-2019 1:10pm

Heymans wrote: »

Deegan at 7 is sending a message - by hook or by crook the coaching staff will force him to stop avoiding hitting rucks in games. When that's his primary responsibility at 7 he can't avoid it any longer. Should toughen him up also.

Or..... now this is just a possibility.....

There are literally no fit opensides in the squad and the coaches have deemed Deegan to be the best equipped there.

But your stange assumption based on fictional evidence might also be true in some strange timeline

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread X: [****]

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