Doctor Who - 30x13 - Journey's End [SPOILERS][MERGED]

I just rewatched the credits what did i miss for the second time?? hope its not the crappy looking christmas special you mean:(

That ad reminded me of the ad for "South Park : Bigger, longer and uncut".

Maybe the Daleks are a metaphor for Lisbon.

yeah this was brought up in the prior episode discussion what with there being 27 planets etc

still RTD for the christmas i believe

Arabel wrote: »

On a side note, does anybody know who wrote the specials coming up for next year, is RTD not finished yet or is Moffat starting safe with the Cybermen?

RTD is in control of the specials, afaik. He's writing them.

Moffat takes over at the start of the next full season.

Gosh, three threads to merge

I deliberately waited until I had watched it all again on BBC3 before I posted, as the popebenny16 living room was a bit mad last night, three children were literally hopping up and down, crying in delight at some parts, worried as hell at other parts. In that way you have to hold your hand up and take your hat off to RTD : he delivered a very exciting one hour show at peak Saturday evening time which pulled in 9.4 million viewers.

As someone who hasn't always agreed with RTD or what he has done, and, more to the point, his limitations as a writer, I have to admit that if I was in his position this is broadly the two parter I would have done. It's a "B" movie thunderbolt. Biggest Villians, three herioines, two hero's, and all the new people he'd created all playing a major part (apart from Jackie, but I always liked her - then again I'm 37) all ending with a big bang and a happy result for all the characters, maybe even the Doctor. After what he has done for the series (even if i dont subscribe to the RTD brought back the Doctor theory) the man is entitled to his indulgence, so long as it gets lots of views and makes us all excited.

You could say he is entitled to re-hash previous moments of glory (which we noted started last week) by going back to Bad Wolf Bay, to making a good point about the 9th Doctor, by referencing a DNA solution being broadcast through all the Daleks, by noting that Gwen is a decedent of the chamber maid in the Charles Dickens episode, by having a companion dying who doesn't die (Rose in series 28) and, as has been noted, resetting a plot in the same breath, not to mention saving a companion who looked into the time vortex (albeit in a roundabout way with Donna).

RTD is fantastic in setting up a climax, he did it so well last week, he always does it so well. He also latched onto a fantastic aspect of the Doctor - his loneliness - and also another aspect - that others die for him and he goes on. His development of this, coupled with his 9th/Rose relationship was excellent. 9th was a shell shocked Doctor, traumatised by the time war. Its fairly well said he killed all the Daleks and the Timelords by using some ultimate device - which shows us why he has a very introspective moment when Martha tells him of the ousterhausen key.

As noted above, he also has a great way of dealing with villains but I have to say that I loved this Davros. He was understated, and it made him even more menacing. His reality bomb also referenced nicely back to Skaro in Genesis, when he tells the Doctor that he would release that virus and kill everything. In Journey's End he finally gets his chance. No doubt the sealed off vault survived the big bang and Caan and Davros will return.

Yes, there were plot holes to drive a bus through. Yes, Doctor Donna, not to mention Doctor lite were a cop out (but handy for the real doctor not to do the dirty work) and yes, if you took Rose out of this story it wouldn't have affected it one jolt (hope she gets that fecking lip fixed) [as an aside, mrspopebenny is of the belief that Rose is a utterly pathetic lovesick saddo with a daddy complex] and also resetting Donna was a horrible thing to do, we could almost have had a Romana for next year :P

Oh, six people to drive the TARDIS properly???? Feck off!!! Then again, forgivable bit of Writerwank.

So far, so generous of me. Yes, the kids loved it, many many people would have loved it, I think long term Whovians (like some on this board) wouldn't. That's life. I was carried along by the frantic excitement but when the Crucible blew I felt shallow and empty, the big moment had happened, all that remained was to get the rest over with. It reminded me of a one night stand, all the excitement followed by all the desire to mutter as few words as possible, try to be nice to each other, but really, you want to get out of there.

So, I glanced at the clock, it was 7.20. Another 20 mins. When Mickey/Rickey said "I know what happens next" before running off to Torchwood in January I said the same. A parting of the ways in which the shallow greed and neediness of Rose was contrasted with the pathos of Donna's fate. In yet another nod to his own storyline's, both had looked into the Vortex, both needed the Doctor to wipe it from their minds, but Donna went a lot further than Rose and suffered more. Well, at least Rose got Doctor lite, who mush have been well pleased that she ran after the TARDIS.

By the way, how come there isn't a Doctor in her universe?

The ending, though, was very good. Bernard Cribbens did it again, and Donnamum's "I think Mr Smith was just leaving" was truly excellent after what we saw of her in Turn Left.

As for that ending. Not at "What!!??" in sight. Good.

As for Cybermen. I like them. But, how did alternative universe Cybermen end up in Victorian England?

Oh, God no. Not again!!!!!

great episode some lame bits such as the regeneration but generally good.

Davros was better than how i remembered.

It was nice to see the Dr offer to save him. I assume he survives.

What was up with Donnas ring? Its seemed to pull her hand towards the Dr' spare hand and then at the end it was shown several times when she was on the phone? Are we sure she is not a time lord in disguise or maybe something else ? I think she will be back

Can't wait for the Cybermen. They are one of best Dr Who villians!

I liked it, for the most part. I just felt that there were too many characters.
I knew that the regeneration wouldn't produce a new Doctor, it would have been leaked if a new actor were taking over.
I liked Donna a lot more than I expected to. I'm not a fan of The Catherine Tate Show. She seemed a lot more Bolshi than any other companions, less reverent of the Doctor.
Romana, wasn't she lost in E-Space? She could certainly make a return, as she wouldn't have been involved in the time war. Didn't she have K9 with her? How did he escape?
Bernard Cribbins gave a great performance, but I loved him in Turn Left, when he knew what Labour Camps were.
Great seeing Jackie Tyler too. Mickey definitely going to join Torchwood.

Am I right in thinking that there won't be a series next year, just a handful of specials? The track record for Chrimbo specials is very dodgy.
I'd love to see a special featuring Paul McGann. Perhaps a death scene with a guest appearance by Christopher.
I think the Timelords will be brought back eventually, after all, the Daleks keep returning.