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Rent increase megathread

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    #362
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    2/3rds of rented home which were inspected. Big big difference there as you would expect a high number of inspections weren't random and actually targeting properties which weee reported etc. Even at that I find it hard to believe to be honest.


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    #363
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    syndrome777 wrote: »
    Two-thirds of rented homes now failing to meet basic standards
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/twothirds-of-rented-homes-now-failing-to-meet-basic-standards-35481229.html

    This would be pointed out and should be good enough reason to fight any rent increase, even 4%. It should be better regulated and it should affect how the rent are increased or decreased, Not just supply and demand.
    It's always just LL's statements that rent's are below market as an excuses to increase the rent, but what about standards??


    "The Government has promised to increase funding for local authorities to increase the number of inspections, but not until 2018."
    maybe there's a hope.

    But I think it should be close connected andinspected with rent increase.

    How does a general statistic become relevant in a rent review? the individuakl tenant whose accommodation is below standard can complain. If he gets notice of a rent increase he can complain if it is above market rent or the old rent plus 4% if applicable.


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    #364
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Some of those failures are for silly things like not having a freezer. Even things like not having an internal bathroom are ridiculous when there are people sleeping on floors in shelters. They would be better off spending the money actually building houses instead of going around hounding people.


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    #365
    Gentleman Off The Pitch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭Gentleman Off The Pitch


    Sorry if this has been covered already....Say a landlord has been renting an apartment in a now rent controlled area for much below market rental levels and now the current tenants are leaving, for the next tenants, can a landlord charge previous rent + 4% + the annual maintenance fee? i.e. use the maintenance fee to make up some of the difference?


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    #366
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »
    Sorry if this has been covered already....Say a landlord has been renting an apartment in a now rent controlled area for much below market rental levels and now the current tenants are leaving, for the next tenants, can a landlord charge previous rent + 4% + the annual maintenance fee? i.e. use the maintenance fee to make up some of the difference?

    Some people think so. It has yet to be tested. One argument against it that it is an increased rent by another name and the RTB can undo the lease and force down the rent. Another is that a lot of the maintenance fee goes on the building insurance which the tenant gets no benefit from so it is not the genuine passing on of a charge. There may be scope for LLs to persuade management companies to issue separate bills for refuse, collection and cleaning services which the Landlord could reasonably pass on to the tenants.


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    #367
    Fkall
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭Fkall


    Alternatively the LL could renovate the kitchen and bathrooms. He would be able to recoup the cost over the two to three years.

    While he does not get any initial benefit he does have a higher spec property.


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    #368
    GGTrek
    Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭GGTrek


    Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »
    Sorry if this has been covered already....Say a landlord has been renting an apartment in a now rent controlled area for much below market rental levels and now the current tenants are leaving, for the next tenants, can a landlord charge previous rent + 4% + the annual maintenance fee? i.e. use the maintenance fee to make up some of the difference?
    My suggestion, you have little to loose and only if challenged at RTB in what would be a difficult test case: add to nominal rent the management company service fees, add LPT (the tenant is benefiting from local services, not the landlord), add your agent management services fees to deal with the tenant, add a redecoration non-reimbursable fee if the tenant stays more than 12 months to cover the cost of painting back the place to the original status after providing painting invoices. In addition the nominal rent is not previous rent + 4%, you have to follow the formula established by the law which is more complicated, I suggest you to use the following RPZ calculator provided by the RTB: http://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/rpz-calculator


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    #369
    LFC Murphy
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭LFC Murphy


    Hi, and sorry if done to death, but just looking for some thoughts.

    I live in a "Rent Pressure Zone"

    Moved into rental property in Sept 2015, then the landlord asked if we intended to sign a new lease and attempted to raise the rent in 2016, but I had to educate him in the (at the time) new legislation regarding the 24 month rent review cycle. At the time he was a little taken aback, but it came to nothing. Lease was signed with original rent and on we went.

    Then roll on this week, we get an email asking us did we intend to continue the sign a new lease in Aug 2017!!!!

    We said "Our intention is to continue our tenancy into 2018" to which the reply was: "I think the rent will be subject to just the 4% increase recently introduced by government. We can discuss closer to august"

    So whats the notice period for Rent Increases in pressure zones,

    Also don't such increases have to be against 3 comparable properties in comparable addresses. So effectively Ringsend and Ringsend, and not Ringsend and Sandymount?

    And if such properies are not available via Daft etc, don't the landlord have to use the PRTB Rent Index


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    #370
    com1
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭com1


    Go to the rtb site and enter the details into the calculator it will let you know what increase to expect...


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    #371
    LFC Murphy
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭LFC Murphy


    com1 wrote: »
    Go to the rtb site and enter the details into the calculator it will let you know what increase to expect...

    This tells me max rent increase, which is no help as surly rent can also decrease... the PRTB rent index for Q3-2016 tells me that rent for my area is actually below my current rent.

    So would we have a case if such a situation exists, can we argue a rent review downwards?

    Also what is the new notice period, as the previous was 90 days?


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    #372
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    LFC Murphy wrote: »
    This tells me max rent increase, which is no help as surly rent can also decrease... the PRTB rent index for Q3-2016 tells me that rent for my area is actually below my current rent.

    So would we have a case if such a situation exists, can we argue a rent review downwards?

    Also what is the new notice period, as the previous was 90 days?

    The notice period is 90 days. Comparitors must be provided. It is not worth challenging the market rent if the increase is 4%.


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    #373
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    The notice period is 90 days. Comparitors must be provided. It is not worth challenging the market rent if the increase is 4%.

    Depending on price already been paid 4% could bring it up considerable.

    If you find 3 or 4 properties in same area and similar in size you could well get it down if you are paying more for pretty much the same thing.

    Wait and see what notice you are given and how much they intend before you do anything. Don't be giving them too much info let them do some homework or do it wrong and it will drag out.


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    #374
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Depending on price already been paid 4% could bring it up considerable.

    If you find 3 or 4 properties in same area and similar in size you could well get it down if you are paying more for pretty much the same thing.

    Wait and see what notice you are given and how much they intend before you do anything. Don't be giving them too much info let them do some homework or do it wrong and it will drag out.

    If the procedures have not been followed it is one thing, establishing that a rent is above market rent is expensive and it is for the tenant to prove. It would likely cost more than any potential saving.


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    #375
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    LFC Murphy wrote: »
    Hi, and sorry if done to death, but just looking for some thoughts.

    I live in a "Rent Pressure Zone"

    Moved into rental property in Sept 2015, then the landlord asked if we intended to sign a new lease and attempted to raise the rent in 2016, but I had to educate him in the (at the time) new legislation regarding the 24 month rent review cycle. At the time he was a little taken aback, but it came to nothing. Lease was signed with original rent and on we went.

    Then roll on this week, we get an email asking us did we intend to continue the sign a new lease in Aug 2017!!!!

    We said "Our intention is to continue our tenancy into 2018" to which the reply was: "I think the rent will be subject to just the 4% increase recently introduced by government. We can discuss closer to august"

    So whats the notice period for Rent Increases in pressure zones,

    Also don't such increases have to be against 3 comparable properties in comparable addresses. So effectively Ringsend and Ringsend, and not Ringsend and Sandymount?

    And if such properies are not available via Daft etc, don't the landlord have to use the PRTB Rent Index

    Unless you decided to go for the most expensive of the available properties in Sept 2015 you can bet your bottom dollar prices have increased at least 20% in the last 18 months. There's been a c.33% rise on my property, rents are completely out of hand. I wouldn't be making the LL's life difficult over a 4% rise, they are still (thankfully) entitled to sell and many of us are just waiting to dump. Play it as you see fit of course.

    In regard to signing a new lease there is absolutely no need to do so unless the fixed term lease prevents the LL from selling. If there is a break clause in it I'd just remain on your Part IV rights which will take you to Sept 2019.


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    #376
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    If the procedures have not been followed it is one thing, establishing that a rent is above market rent is expensive and it is for the tenant to prove. It would likely cost more than any potential saving.

    How would it be expensive unless found to be untrue.

    When there is a dispute money stays the same but of course if found wrong one would owe the difference from start of dispute.


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    #377
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Unless you decided to go for the most expensive of the available properties in Sept 2015 you can bet your bottom dollar prices have increased at least 20% in the last 18 months. There's been a c.33% rise on my property, rents are completely out of hand. I wouldn't be making the LL's life difficult over a 4% rise, they are still (thankfully) entitled to sell and many of us are just waiting to dump. Play it as you see fit of course.

    In regard to signing a new lease there is absolutely no need to do so unless the fixed term lease prevents the LL from selling. If there is a break clause in it I'd just remain on your Part IV rights which will take you to Sept 2019.


    Its all well and good saying one doesn't have to but I honestly had to sign a new lease as it wasn't worth the stress or hassle dealing with the guy that came along with the other guy that's not even the LL but acting on behalf.

    It can be so messy and annoying at times.


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    #378
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Its all well and good saying one doesn't have to but I honestly had to sign a new lease as it wasn't worth the stress or hassle dealing with the guy that came along with the other guy that's not even the LL but acting on behalf.

    It can be so messy and annoying at times.

    What stress it hassle, say no I'm not singing end off. They can't do a thing about it.

    I've no idea why some LLs are obsessed with leases, it shows they are clueless as they shouldn't even offer a lease for the first year if they were smart.


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    #379
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Noelle Most Tang wrote: »
    What stress it hassle, say no I'm not singing end off. They can't do a thing about it.

    I've no idea why some LLs are obsessed with leases, it shows they are clueless as they shouldn't even offer a lease for the first year if they were smart.



    They were throwing around oh sure house could be up for sale soon blaj blah and so on.

    Look I know and I made it clear with them and to be honest there are a few issues which I let slide in the house which could be an easy option to leave early but the way things are we have already been pushed further out of Dublin and I can only see us having to commute at least an hour on motorway before rush hour.


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    #380
    Midlife crisis man
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭Midlife crisis man


    According to the CSO, the average rent for a 3 bedroom house in my town in 2014 was €614 and 2015 was €654. In the last 12 months most houses up for rent have shot up to €1000+. The houses certainly aren't worth that much as you don't get much house for your buck. All of a sudden this seems to be the "market rate" but it was just a couple of landlords chancing their arm putting the prices up so much and now all of them are so now it seems to be the norm. In my opinion it is causing a lot of families hardship and it's just going to add to the homelessness crisis as I know a lot of families that are struggling to pay these prices. Salaries here are not as high as in Dublin and I can see the sector spiralling out of control.
    Fortunately my rent for now is ok and it won't be increasing but at the same time we're stuck where we are because we're priced out of moving


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    #381
    syndrome777
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭syndrome777


    Midlife crisis man wrote: »
    According to the CSO, the average rent for a 3 bedroom house in my town in 2014 was €614 and 2015 was €654. In the last 12 months most houses up for rent have shot up to €1000+. The houses certainly aren't worth that much as you don't get much house for your buck. All of a sudden this seems to be the "market rate" but it was just a couple of landlords chancing their arm putting the prices up so much and now all of them are so now it seems to be the norm. In my opinion it is causing a lot of families hardship and it's just going to add to the homelessness crisis as I know a lot of families that are struggling to pay these prices. Salaries here are not as high as in Dublin and I can see the sector spiralling out of control.
    Fortunately my rent for now is ok and it won't be increasing but at the same time we're stuck where we are because we're priced out of moving

    one bed apt in Dublin is now 1200 easy, and not everyone is on high salaries ether.
    Everyone's just repeating "market rent" , while in fact it's the government fault for not predicting this and building more, it's a shortage situation, nothing more. Very disheartening.


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    #382
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,982 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Midlife crisis man wrote: »
    According to the CSO, the average rent for a 3 bedroom house in my town in 2014 was €614 and 2015 was €654. In the last 12 months most houses up for rent have shot up to €1000+. The houses certainly aren't worth that much as you don't get much house for your buck. All of a sudden this seems to be the "market rate" but it was just a couple of landlords chancing their arm putting the prices up so much and now all of them are so now it seems to be the norm. In my opinion it is causing a lot of families hardship and it's just going to add to the homelessness crisis as I know a lot of families that are struggling to pay these prices. Salaries here are not as high as in Dublin and I can see the sector spiralling out of control.
    Fortunately my rent for now is ok and it won't be increasing but at the same time we're stuck where we are because we're priced out of moving

    Market rate is what people will pay. If a couple of landlords set the price to 1k and people rent at that price, then the market rate is 1k. If they set the rent that high and nobody rents, then its not the market rate.


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    #383
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    How would it be expensive unless found to be untrue.

    When there is a dispute money stays the same but of course if found wrong one would owe the difference from start of dispute.

    The RTB will only accept the evidence of a qualified valuer with regard to market rent. The person bringing the qualified valuer to a hearing has to pay for it. Will likely costs several hundred euro. The other side may also bring a qualified valuer so there is no guarantee of success.


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    #384
    fjon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭fjon


    Sorry, I know variations of this get asked a lot on this thread! I read back through the last 5 pages of the thread and found some useful information.
    I am meeting with my LL in a few weeks to renew lease and discuss rent. I want to make sure I have my facts right before I talk to him.
    We moved into our house in a RPZ in May 2015, and had no rent increase in May 2016.
    Am I right in thinking that the increase in 2017 can't be more than 4% (24/24*4)? Also, that if this increase is sought that it can't take effect until August 2017? (90 days)


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    #385
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    1) you don't have to sign a new lease - you're part 4 protected. re rent increase - that depends if you're in a rent pressure zone or not.


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    #386
    fjon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭fjon


    Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »
    1) you don't have to sign a new lease - you're part 4 protected. re rent increase - that depends if you're in a rent pressure zone or not.
    Thanks, I guess I meant a new contract, not lease. Yes, I am in an RPZ


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    #387
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    fjon wrote: »
    Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »
    1) you don't have to sign a new lease - you're part 4 protected. re rent increase - that depends if you're in a rent pressure zone or not.
    Thanks, I guess I meant a new contract, not lease. Yes, I am in an RPZ
    same thing different name.You don't have to sign anything. I would think the presumption you are setting up re 4% are correct.He can't go any higher.


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    #388
    fjon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭fjon


    Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »
    same thing different name.You don't have to sign anything. I would think the presumption you are setting up re 4% are correct.He can't go any higher.

    Didn't realise I didn't need to sign a piece of paper every year. That's more of less what has happened every year since I started renting 15 years ago


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    #389
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    fjon wrote: »
    Didn't realise I didn't need to sign a piece of paper every year. That's more of less what has happened every year since I started renting 15 years ago

    If you get a one year lease though are you not protected in case the landlord wants to sell the property - or can a landlord give 6 month's notice which is effective on the final day of the lease?


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    #390
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Browney7 wrote: »
    If you get a one year lease though are you not protected in case the landlord wants to sell the property - or can a landlord give 6 month's notice which is effective on the final day of the lease?

    Some in the RTB think notice can't be given during a fixed term.


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    #391
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Some in the RTB think notice can't be given during a fixed term.

    A Fixed Term lease can only clarify the terms of a tenancy and any provisions of it can impart conditions at least as favourable to a tenant as those specified in the Residential Tenancies Act (as amended). It is however a civil agreement between a landlord and a tenant- and if either side breach their obligations in the fixed term lease- it would be a civil matter between the parties. With respect of notice- if it is provided for in the fixed term lease, notice would be made as prescribed under the act- and as specified under the Act.

    Also- I would seriously suggest people stop relying on Threshold for legal interpretations of the Act- or legal advice- they are on the record providing illegal advice and guidance to tenants, frankly how or why they continue to receive substantial state funding, is beyond me.

    Read what the articles and terms in your fixed term lease say. If it isn't clear- your fall-back is the Residential Tenancies Act.


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