General Election - Feb 26th Megathread

JustTheOne · 21-02-2016 3:37pm

Satriale wrote: »

That FF guy is the link. Do you think he is lying?

I do yes.

FF have never given me a reason to think otherwise.

FalconGirl · 21-02-2016 3:45pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

What parties are advocating the retention of the USC? They'll get a preference from me.

Social Democrats are saying they will retain the USC. They're opting for an alternative method of putting money back in peoples pockets by establishing initiatives to reduce the cost of living which makes absolute sense.

My name is URL · 21-02-2016 3:49pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Kenny was dead right, some people want everything handed to them on a silver plate while contributing absolutely nothing themselves to society.

Like all the failed politicians he's set up for life in the Seanad

Galwayguy35 · 21-02-2016 3:50pm

FalconGirl wrote: »

Social Democrats are saying they will retain the USC. They're opting for an alternative method of putting money back in peoples pockets by establishing initiatives to reduce the cost of living which makes absolute sense.

So what is it?

Galwayguy35 · 21-02-2016 3:51pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Like all the failed politicians he's set up for life in the Seanad

Who?

Slydice · 21-02-2016 3:51pm

I can't believe he said this in the last week of the election:eek:

https://twitter.com/paraicgallagher/status/701346076046053376

Is the Bertie thing gone from peoples memories that he's safe to use a line like that?

It was the first thing I associated in my head. Was he not advised to avoid language like that?

My name is URL · 21-02-2016 3:53pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Who?

Well Lorraine Higgins is one of such appointments he's made

A woman despised by the electorate and rejected by them on numerous occasions

But hey, she totally deserves a place in politics regardless of that /s

Galwayguy35 · 21-02-2016 4:03pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Well Lorraine Higgins is one of such appointments he's made

A woman despised by the electorate and rejected by them on numerous occasions

But hey, she totally deserves a place in politics regardless of that /s

The people had a chance to abolish the Seanad and for some unknown reason which I can't get my head around they voted to keep it.

So yeah it will be a nice cushy number for those who are nominated to it.

Jack Killian · 21-02-2016 4:15pm

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Enda has told his TDs to scare the bejaysus out of the electorate this week so they will stick with his inept status quo.

We desperately need to get away from civil war parties and politics.

Please don't vote FF, FG, Labour or SF. So much baggage, corruption, cute hoorism etc. Anybody else will do!

Link ? That quote was previously attributed to FF, and while it's 50/50 as to whether it was their own opinion (which has come to pass) or was something he overheard from FG themselves, we need to know which.

Jack Killian · 21-02-2016 4:16pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The people had a chance to abolish the Seanad and for some unknown reason which I can't get my head around they voted to keep it.

So yeah it will be a nice cushy number for those who are nominated to it.

We wanted it reformed so that it could act as an oversight tool and prevent Kenny ramming through any more "satisfy our cronies" crap.

Kenny & Co, as usual, missed the whole point.

Galwayguy35 · 21-02-2016 4:21pm

Jack Killian wrote: »

We wanted it reformed so that it could act as an oversight tool and prevent Kenny ramming through any more "satisfy our cronies" crap.

Kenny & Co, as usual, missed the whole point.

So is it a top priority for whoever you will be voting for to reform it, have yp asked them?

Because I've heard nothing from any party about reforming it and IMO it will just continue to be a total waste of money.

dasdog · 21-02-2016 4:23pm

Slydice wrote: »

I can't believe he said this in the last week of the election:eek:

He'll be defending/deflecting that utterance for the next few days. PR face palm.

My name is URL wrote: »

Well Lorraine Higgins is one of such appointments he's made

Wiffy

Satriale · 21-02-2016 4:26pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

I do yes.

FF have never given me a reason to think otherwise.

That's fair enough.
If i felt as strongly as you about it , I'd email Kelleher a link to your post and call him out on it, noone likes being called a liar.
But i suspect when nobody from Official FG said it was a lie, there may some truth to it (and possible proof! ). Also, would the Irish Times just give him a platform to spread something that could be damaging to FG during election week without some due dilligence? i dont know, but i doubt it.

suicide_circus · 21-02-2016 4:34pm

realies wrote: »

What you mean ?

The article dosn't read very well imo

suicide_circus · 21-02-2016 4:38pm

FalconGirl wrote: »

Social Democrats are saying they will retain the USC. They're opting for an alternative method of putting money back in peoples pockets by establishing initiatives to reduce the cost of living which makes absolute sense.

I would say anything that removes a safe and steady tax revenue stream is rank stupidity, we barely have our heads above water and a million and one things could plunge us straight back into free fall recession... But the voters don't like that kind of talk I guess.

KomradeBishop · 21-02-2016 4:42pm

Jaylah Important Trailblazer wrote: »

Translation: A majority of voters in Ireland won't vote the way I want them to so on the off chance that those living abroad vote the way I am they should all be allowed influence the outcome from the other otherside of the world.

Can you not see the ridiculous out come you are proposing. A majority of people living in the county want to vote one way and you want a load of people (who you assume of course you don't know who they would vote for) to skew the results.

Let's just say the election was won on the votes of those aboard, you are in a situation where the majority of people living in a county are not represented by the people they voted for, their day to day lives are affected by policy's etc they don't agree with while the people who voted from afar don't really give a damn as they are not living here but are just happy because they "voted out that shower"

To vote in a general election one of the main criteria should be resident and paying your tax in Ireland (those working abroad for the state should of course have a vote also as pointed out by some posters).

Don't put words in my mouth, or reinterpret what I said and attribute that to me.

Ireland will be giving overseas citizens a vote - that is not even in question, it is the current political consensus, and it will happen - the only question is when.

It's something the current government (and the one before it) have been delaying for almost a decade now - most likely because it will remove the ability, for a lot of anti-FG citizens, to cast a vote.

Your criteria, don't meet the criteria of most of the rest of the democratic world - who afford overseas citizens the right to vote, as a basic democratic principle.

KomradeBishop · 21-02-2016 4:50pm

Slydice wrote: »

I can't believe he said this in the last week of the election:eek:

https://twitter.com/paraicgallagher/status/701346076046053376

Is the Bertie thing gone from peoples memories that he's safe to use a line like that?

It was the first thing I associated in my head. Was he not advised to avoid language like that?

It's the same kind of mentality you hear voiced from many FG supporters: An air of pompous/superior condescension - that anyone who disagrees with them is 'unserious', and whose opinions can be summarily dismissed (or shouted down in a haughty manner).

That's their attitude to power, that's the level their lack of respect for the public goes ('whingers'...) - and it's become so ingrained among them and their supporters, that they forget that such an attitude will do them no favours when running for an election - their own attitude/supporters become their own worst enemy.

The platform Fine Gael are running on, is one where they are appealing to the sections of society who are largely unaffected by or who benefit from the crisis we've been and are going through - that's why there is the air of sneering condescension towards anyone who complains about the status quo - they are banking on the number of disaffected people being low (or having emigrated/removed-from-voting...).

Galwayguy35 · 21-02-2016 6:35pm

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth, or reinterpret what I said and attribute that to me.

Ireland will be giving overseas citizens a vote - that is not even in question, it is the current political consensus, and it will happen - the only question is when.

It's something the current government (and the one before it) have been delaying for almost a decade now - most likely because it will remove the ability, for a lot of anti-FG citizens, to cast a vote.

Your criteria, don't meet the criteria of most of the rest of the democratic world - who afford overseas citizens the right to vote, as a basic democratic principle.

I don't agree they should have a vote but seeing as you are saying it will be brought in here at some point I think a 5 year cut off point should be the maximum time limit on this.

ThunbergsAreGo · 21-02-2016 6:39pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Like all the failed politicians he's set up for life in the Seanad

You mean we the people retained in a referendum?

KomradeBishop · 21-02-2016 6:42pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I don't agree they should have a vote but seeing as you are saying it will be brought in here at some point I think a 5 year cut off point should be the maximum time limit on this.

Ya I could agree with that - seems a reasonable time limit.

spiralism · 21-02-2016 6:47pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Like all the failed politicians he's set up for life in the Seanad

Which he tried to abolish.

Sunnyisland · 21-02-2016 7:03pm

Enda is shouting on the news

My name is URL · 21-02-2016 7:07pm

spiralism wrote: »

Which he tried to abolish.

Which he failed to abolish after the people rejected it

So what, is he just going to continue to fill it with lame-duck dip****s as a big 'fcuk you' to the people that voted to keep it? That's Enda Kenny all over really, isn't it?

That Higgins bint is hated by people in her constituency and has no place in politics. He appointed her because she's a Labour faithful, not on merit or anything else.

It's rich for him to speak about entitlement and whingers after appointing one of the most self-entitled whiny little bitches in Irish public life.

PressRun · 21-02-2016 7:07pm

The arrogance of Enda Kenny is astounding.

spakman · 21-02-2016 7:08pm

PressRun wrote: »

The arrogance of Enda Kenny is astounding.

Stupid thing to say, but fair bit of truth in it. Easy to whinge, harder to solve the issues.

PressRun · 21-02-2016 7:14pm

spakman wrote: »

Stupid thing to say, but fair bit of truth in it. Easy to whinge, harder to solve the issues.

I don't think theres any truth to it. He's pandering to a certain kind of voter by denigrating others.

spiralism · 21-02-2016 7:24pm

PressRun wrote: »

I don't think theres any truth to it. He's pandering to a certain kind of voter by denigrating others.

Add some scaremongering and you have their campaign strategy in a nutshell pretty much

CFlat · 21-02-2016 7:34pm

spiralism wrote: »

Which he tried to abolish.

Yes exactly. People here tripping over themselves to have a pathetic dig at Enda Kenny/FG forget that because it suits them.

LordSutch · 21-02-2016 8:07pm

Stinicker wrote: »

I really don't see why FG can't get cozy with Gerry Adams, SF would go into Government if called upon I feel.

Where to start ... :rolleyes:

LostinKildare · 21-02-2016 8:13pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

So no actual link to a fg person saying they will "scare the **** out of the electorate"

Who's scaremongering now?

The quote comes originally from "Voters not buying coalition's auction politics," in the SBP, February 14. It's behind a paywall, but here is a quote: ". . . the government parties will now embark on a full scale fear offensive . . . 'We will scare the s**t out of them for the last ten days,' said one key government strategist last week."

a photo of the page is here at Broadsheet: http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/16/fear-we-go/#comments

I don't know why posters have been screaming for proof that anyone inside govt said this --- it's patently obvious to anyone who follows politics and the news that this is what they're at. A heightened version of what they've done on and off for the last five years --- convincing us TINA, trying to frighten us, and now name-calling critics whingers. Ugly schoolyard bully tactics. :mad:
We deserve better.

Jack Killian · 21-02-2016 8:19pm

spiralism wrote: »

Add some scaremongering and you have their campaign strategy in a nutshell pretty much

feeble attempt at scaremongering - it is backfiring spectacularly because they're so wooden and ****e at it.

The u-turn on USC was a sign of desperation and has turned a few, mind, even though the "economically illiterate" SF were derided for proposing it.

Billy86 · 21-02-2016 8:24pm

KomradeBishop wrote: »

What on earth are you going on about? Our population has not increased by 300,000 since 2011, it has increased by 60,000-72,000:
http://i.imgur.com/iTuHDzS.jpg
http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2015/ (Table 1)

Where are you pulling the bullshít 'half a million' figure from above, which you attribute to me? Don't put words in my mouth, thanks.

Your working age population figures appear to be total bullshít - care to provide some citation for them?
http://i.imgur.com/Sz1CH2W.jpg
https://data.oecd.org/pop/working-age-population.htm

http://i.imgur.com/FsQ4uHO.gif

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UkiBA-ZWZDw/VeNWsJYjZmI/AAAAAAAAZbY/lOGvSp434xM/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2015-08-30%2Bat%2B13.36.35.png
http://trueeconomics.blogspot.ie/2015/08/30815-migration-changes-in-irish.html

Your quote of an 180,000 increase in employment since 2011 is also disproved by Skylinehead's link and the CSO, which shows 140,000:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/employed-persons
http://i.imgur.com/GUIE2hK.gif

Your statistics are completely and provably fabricated lies, which you do not cite/source, and which totally/irrecoverably discredit you and all your arguments.

I would say that the sole purpose of all that nonsense, is to distract from the arguments criticising Fine Gael, and their terrible record of taking claim for a 'recovery' largely felt by better-off sections of the economy, on how they have little-to-no claim of success on employment levels (given that our 'recovery' is largely determined by external economic events), and by the utterly dismal emigration figures for Ireland, which make an absolute huge dent in our unemployment figures.

I guess we should congratulate the emigrants - rather than government - for doing so much to help the unemployment figures :rolleyes:

Good spot on the CSO numbers, as I had not been able to find them and had been using separate sources for the most recent numbers which must have been incorrect. Here is the source I had used by the way, now please do try to move away from the petty ad hominem attacks.

So let's completely disavow that source and work off of the CSO numbers. I fully agree that they would be the best to use here.

As of April 2015, the working age population was about bang on 3,000,000. http://www.cso.ie/multiquicktables/quickTables.aspx?id=cna15
In 2011 it was 3,070,000 - so it had dropped by around 70,000, you are correct there: http://www.cso.ie/multiquicktables/quickTables.aspx?id=pea01

But, you're still wrong about job creation.

With 15.1% of 3,070,000 unemployed in 2011 (464,000), 84.9% would be in employment - 2,606,000.
With 9.7% of 3,000,000 unemployed in 2015 (291,000), 91.8% would be in employment - 2,709,000.

- 291,000 is a smaller number than 464,000... by 173,000. So roughly 100,000 less unemployed, even after taking working age populations into account.
- 2,709,000 is a bigger number than 2,606,000... by 103,000. So roughly 100,000 more in employment.

Remember this is as of April, 2015. Since then the unemployment rate has gone down a further 0.9%, which had the population stayed completely static since April, would mean a further 45,000 jobs and bring the number to 2,754,000. That would be an increase of 148,000 in employment from 2011.

Of course the population will not have stayed completely static, but the difference would only be a few thousand in either direction.

So yes, there are now well in excess of over 100,000 in employment than were in 2011, and over 100,000 less unemployed even allowing for working age differences (170,000 if not).

JustTheOne · 21-02-2016 8:28pm

LostinKildare wrote: »

The quote comes originally from "Voters not buying coalition's auction politics," in the SBP, February 14. It's behind a paywall, but here is a quote: ". . . the government parties will now embark on a full scale fear offensive . . . 'We will scare the s**t out of them for the last ten days,' said one key government strategist last week."

a photo of the page is here at Broadsheet: http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/02/16/fear-we-go/#comments

I don't know why posters have been screaming for proof that anyone inside govt said this --- it's patently obvious to anyone who follows politics and the news that this is what they're at. A heightened version of what they've done on and off for the last five years --- convincing us TINA, trying to frighten us, and now name-calling critics whingers. Ugly schoolyard bully tactics. :mad:
We deserve better.

The key government strategist is a fianna fail campaign member.

LostinKildare · 21-02-2016 8:30pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

The senior strategist is a fianna fail campaign member.

Where do you get that from?

The_Kew_Tour · 21-02-2016 8:33pm

Now I hate Joan as much as anyone, but that stupid kid who shouted at her yesterday is the type of thing I'm embarrassed about in this country.

Young fella was probably a Shinner looking for his day in sun.

JustTheOne · 21-02-2016 8:37pm

LostinKildare wrote: »

Where do you get that from?

http://www.irishtimes.com/election-2016/dublin-south-west/election-2016-enda-kenny-claims-economy-at-risk-from-instability-1.2534430

FF director of elections, Billy Kelleher.

LostinKildare · 21-02-2016 8:47pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/election-2016/dublin-south-west/election-2016-enda-kenny-claims-economy-at-risk-from-instability-1.2534430

FF director of elections, Billy Kelleher.

JustTheOne, did you read my post above? The quote originally came from a key government strategist, reported in the SBP. Obviously, Kelleher cannot be that key government strategist, seeing as he is not in government.

In the IT article you link, Kelleher is referencing that key government strategist quoted in the SBP:
"Yesterday Fine Gael said it was going to emphasise personal attacks on Micheál Martin for the final days of the campaign - and today has confirmed this, with one senior strategist stating: ‘We will scare the **** out of them [the Irish people] in the last ten days’.
In another quote Fine Gael said that voters will be told: ‘You have a f***ing choice to make.’”

JustTheOne · 21-02-2016 8:51pm

LostinKildare wrote: »

JustTheOne, did you read my post above? The quote originally came from a key government strategist, reported in the SBP. Obviously, Kelleher cannot be that key government strategist, seeing as he is not in government.

In the IT article you link, Kelleher is referencing that key government strategist quoted in the SBP:
"Yesterday Fine Gael said it was going to emphasise personal attacks on Micheál Martin for the final days of the campaign - and today has confirmed this, with one senior strategist stating: ‘We will scare the **** out of them [the Irish people] in the last ten days’.
In another quote Fine Gael said that voters will be told: ‘You have a f***ing choice to make.’”

Sorry I meant it was Kelleher making the accusation.

FF election director makes accusation against fg without any evidence or quote from a fg person to back it up.

Come on.

LostinKildare · 21-02-2016 9:02pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

Sorry I meant it was Kelleher making the accusation.

FF election director makes accusation against fg without any evidence or quote from a fg person to back it up.

Come on.

Sigh . . . I just provided you with evidence --- the article in the Sunday Business Post which quotes an unnamed key government strategist as saying, "We will scare the s**t out of them for the last ten days." That is no doubt what Kelleher was referring to; he didn't make it up out of thin air.

Seriously, why is it so hard to believe that a FG strategist said this? It is clear as day that this is their strategy.

Richard Hillman · 21-02-2016 9:05pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Now I hate Joan as much as anyone, but that stupid kid who shouted at her yesterday is the type of thing I'm embarrassed about in this country.

Young fella was probably a Shinner looking for his day in sun.

There is a new and horrible fad that has started in this election of filming yourself confronting politicians.

Brought to you from the makers of "Garda Brutality at a Water Meter Protest" and "Necknomination"

Fleawuss · 21-02-2016 9:10pm

Interesting demographics: on Boards FG gets the majority 2:1 approx. on the next nearest. On Reddit it's the Indies & SF almost 8:1. *

* Figurs are approximate and based on personal observation!

LostinKildare · 21-02-2016 9:19pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Now I hate Joan as much as anyone, but that stupid kid who shouted at her yesterday is the type of thing I'm embarrassed about in this country.

Wow, that's harsh. Okay, he lost control of his emotions and was rude, but geez, he's a teenager. And at least he cares about politics and what's going on in the country, if he expressed himself poorly. Most kids his age --- hell, an awful lot of adults --- don't give a flying **** about what's going on in the country.
There's a zillion things more embarrassing than an earnest, politically aware kid getting upset and losing his cool.

JustTheOne · 21-02-2016 9:19pm

LostinKildare wrote: »

Sigh . . . I just provided you with evidence --- the article in the Sunday Business Post which quotes an unnamed key government strategist as saying, "We will scare the s**t out of them for the last ten days." That is no doubt what Kelleher was referring to; he didn't make it up out of thin air.

Seriously, why is it so hard to believe that a FG strategist said this? It is clear as day that this is their strategy.

There is no direct link to a fg person saying it.

Oh someone heard someone say it. I'm sorry but that doesn't stand up.

Sure we could all go around saying people said stuff without any evidence.

Doesn't work like that.

Sunnyisland · 21-02-2016 9:22pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Now I hate Joan as much as anyone, but that stupid kid who shouted at her yesterday is the type of thing I'm embarrassed about in this country.

Young fella was probably a Shinner looking for his day in sun.

Yes defiantly a shinner as there is no way it happened before, and all them thousands in the links below are them pesky shinners at it again ok.

http://www.thejournal.ie/phil-hogan-homecoming-jeer-618739-Oct2012/

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/general-secretary-of-asti-condemns-treatment-of-education-minister/

Everybody just loves this goverment x

21-02-2016 9:26pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

There is no direct link to a fg person saying it.

Oh someone heard someone say it. I'm sorry but that doesn't stand up.

Sure we could all go around saying people said stuff without any evidence.

Doesn't work like that.

But you were clearly wrong in suggesting that Billy Kelliher made it up.

He got it from the media. Now whether the media got it from someone within the Govt as they say, or just plucked it out of thin air, as you suggest, is another matter.

Sunnyisland · 21-02-2016 9:27pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

There is no direct link to a fg person saying it.

Oh someone heard someone say it. I'm sorry but that doesn't stand up.

Sure we could all go around saying people said stuff without any evidence.

Doesn't work like that.

Cheeses op will you let it go, if it's so important why haven't FG come out and disowned the statement as it's been reprinted and posted in the main media lots of times, people will believe what they want to believe anyway and imo your just digging a bigger whole for your beloved FG .

Jack Killian · 21-02-2016 9:33pm

Billy86 wrote: »

So yes, there are now well in excess of over 100,000 in employment than were in 2011, and over 100,000 less unemployed even allowing for working age differences (170,000 if not).

So 100,000 got jobs? Or are you trying to claim 200,000 ?

RobertKK · 21-02-2016 9:34pm

I never voted for Labour and that won't change.

But there is something about Joan Burton that makes me smile. We had the incident in Thomastown when she and Ann Phelan capsized.
The end of this video makes me smile too.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/701447004845551616

JustTheOne · 21-02-2016 9:36pm

realies wrote: »

Cheeses op will you let it go, if it's so important why haven't FG come out and disowned the statement as it's been reprinted and posted in the main media lots of times, people will believe what they want to believe anyway and imo your just digging a bigger whole for your beloved FG .

Bit rich coming from a Sinn Fein person.

Considering they defend Adams to the hilt about his IRA membership claiming everyone is wrong from the gards to the media to the government.

And there reason is sure there is no evidence, its all just accusations.

Jack Killian · 21-02-2016 9:36pm

JustTheOne wrote: »

The key government strategist is a fianna fail campaign member.

Who what now ? We know FG & FF are pretty much one and the same but that's just ridiculous.

General Election - Feb 26th Megathread

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