Puppy Food Issue

BUACHAILL · 10-11-2015 10:00pm #1

Hi all,

So having a few issues with the dry food for our new pup. When I collected her she was on Burns which she seemed to do ok on but not particularly like. Then on her final injection the vet suggested putting her onto the Hills science plan which I tried and she liked but I read some bad reports on it. It was suggested to me to try the new Carnilove puppy which she absolutely loves but its running through her. I always slowly introduce the foods to her. I have her on the Turkey and Salmon mix which has a protein content of 38% which seems very high and i am thinking it maybe too much..

It has been recommended to put her on Acana or Orijen but I am a little hesitant to keep swapping and changing....Should I see if she adjusts to the current food or just change right away ?

Thanks in advance

sibleykins · 10-11-2015 11:27pm

I dont like either puppy foods. We raised our on Clinivet - we used to get the feed whilst it was on sale - these days the sales are just not worth it - its quite pricey and you can only order it in. (delivery is always free for large bags)

We have tried Royal Canin, but the skin condition and just general hair didn't feel as great compared to Clinivet. We also were on Purina for 6 weeks - the worst 6 weeks for our puppy. We thought it was taking extra time for her to get used to it - however what we realised was that food was just not good enough for a large breed and god only knows what was in it. So we moved back to Clinivet and stayed on it untill she was 12 months. From 12 months we put ours on James Well beloved - that was amazing - the junior feed However adult does suit us as her hair thinned out after 2 months on it and she started losing weight. We have decided to step away from more wallet friendly feeds and moved to REAL NATURE Wilderness - as an adult food this is great - we give her dry food in the mornings and in the evenings she has half a kilo of raw meat (beef liver, pork tongue, chicken hearts and some lean meat to top it up)

My advice, try what works and what makes your puppy look good, feel good, give them that spring in their step. To ween them onto new feed you should also try to do it over 4-6 weeks, small bit at a time, and if that fails try something different. Also some pups are not great with grains and the fillers you get in these feeds so i would recommend doing some research and list of ingredients and see which might be causing discomfort.

BUACHAILL · 10-11-2015 11:35pm

Thank you for the advice. I had started to give her little bits of meat (leftovers) and she reacted really well to it. Its only in the last week or so she has gone backwards. I will watch it closely over the next few days and if it hasn't improved by Friday I will look to introduce her to something else. I had been introducing it over a week so I will draw that out longer like you suggested.

Reading up on it a lot of people suggest not changing them off what the breeders had them on until they are at least 6 months, maybe this would have been the best bet.

aonb · 10-11-2015 11:48pm

What breed is your puppy, and what age?
Vets will recommend Royal Canin and Hills which they are paid to stock - neither of which is a particularly good food.
Burns is quite good.
I havent used Carnilove, but it looks like a decent quality food - Im sure some of the more knowlegable dog owners on here will come along to give some comments.
Depending on what age your puppy is, changing foods unless done very gradually and slowly can have bad effects on its digestion and bowel. As you have discovered.
Some foods just dont suit some dogs.
You want your puppy to have some quality (i.e. not supermarket) food - its health and wellbeing are governed to a massive extent by the quality of its food.
Some dogs have intolerances to certain foods regardless if its quality.
Its all very difficult to sort out, but if you buy the best you can afford - there are dozens of threads on here about quality foods - orijen, arcana, taste of the wild, marcus muhle etc etc etc - introduce it very gradually, and if the dog likes the food (which I consider a major factor - not just eating it because there is nothing else! - I want my dogs to enjoy their food!) stick to that food. Changing flavours maybe, but keep to one brand for a long time.

DOnt forget to keep it interesting by adding a bit of tinned fish, a scrambled egg, a little big of yogurt, some healthy/tasty treats etc! Shes a puppy, food is a huge part of her world right now!

BUACHAILL · 10-11-2015 11:52pm

Sorry I should have said in first post. She is an English Bulldog and is 4.5 months old.

Thanks for the advice

aonb · 10-11-2015 11:56pm

Is this the lovely Lucy that you posted a photo of very recently

Bulldogs may have skin issues/allergies I believe, so you want to be very confident that you are feeding her food that suits her breed. So well worth your while doing some serious research now.

BUACHAILL · 10-11-2015 11:59pm

Yes that be she

It is something I have spoken closely to the breeder with, not my first dog but first bulldog. I watch her closely and I don't mind putting the time or money into her, Thats what ye take on when you buy a pet

sibleykins · 11-11-2015 12:00am

I agree with aonb, keeping on the feed the breeder had them on is the best idea. Raw eggs didn't agree with ours so we gave her cooked instead. A bit of egg and cottage cheese is quite good. But see how your puppy reacts to different things. Try small bits at a time when introducing vegetables and raw meats.

BUACHAILL · 11-11-2015 12:02am

Looking back thats exactly what I should of done. I took the guidance of the vet to be honest something I don't generally fall for.

BUACHAILL · 11-11-2015 12:22pm

OK so things are looking better today so far. I read up a little more on the carnilove food and I think I may have been giving her a little much. Going to cut it back but feed her 3 times a day and see how she gets on but much better today.

sibleykins · 11-11-2015 12:29pm

Are you by any chance counting her treats as part of the daily feed amount? Thats one thing we also overlooked and our pup had a barrel for a stomach for few weeks

BUACHAILL · 11-11-2015 12:33pm

No I dont take into account the treats to be honest

sibleykins · 11-11-2015 12:41pm

Try taking them into account - it might help with her tummy. If you plan to give treats or do some training - get the approximate amout removed from her daily meal or her dinner time. It helps.

Its good to hear shes doing better.

aonb · 11-11-2015 5:19pm

Buachaill, where do you buy the CARNILOVE food?

sibleykins · 11-11-2015 5:52pm

I've seen in on the Petstop website. There is also a warehouse in Clonsilla - not sure but i think i've seen it there

BUACHAILL · 11-11-2015 10:48pm

aonb wrote: »

Buachaill, where do you buy the CARNILOVE food?

I got mine in Petstop Carrickmines, I am pretty sure all their franchises have them. There is a list of who sells it on the Carnilove website

muddypaws · 12-11-2015 1:07am

Just had a look at the Carnilove website, if your pup develops skin issues, it may be due to the different protein sources in the food. It is usually two protein sources interacting that cause dietary issues, rather than the actual source of protein, and their food seems to generally have quite a few different sources in the same food. Just something to keep an eye on.

I would definitely be feeding a 4.5 month old pup 3 times a day, to enable their smaller stomach to digest their food properly.

Best of luck, I hope the food works out well for you.

BUACHAILL · 12-11-2015 1:17am

Thanks for that

She is on the food now a couple of weeks and no sign of any issues with her skin so long may it last. I was giving her the same amount as the hills being a richer food it may have just been too much.

Her stools today were much better, she is always in great form and full of energy and she absolutely devours the food. Agree fully with feeding her 3 times a day I had been watering it a little up until few weeks ago also so may have been a little harder for her to breakdown also.

Heard great reports on the carnilove and she loves it so fingers crossed it agrees with her. How long should it take before you know for sure ??

thegreatgonzo · 13-11-2015 7:44pm

aonb wrote: »

Vets will recommend Royal Canin and Hills which they are paid to stock -

This isn't the first time I've read this comment and it is not true.

aonb · 13-11-2015 10:38pm

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

This isn't the first time I've read this comment and it is not true.

So vets stock something that takes up huge space in their premises for free?!? Im not condemning them, vets are a business afterall - if a premises stocks an item and sells it for a supplier, I would be amazed if the supplier were not paying that premises a percentage of sales

thegreatgonzo · 13-11-2015 10:55pm

aonb wrote: »

So vets stock something that takes up huge space in their premises for free?!? Im not condemning them, vets are a business afterall - if a premises stocks an item and sells it for a supplier, I would be amazed if the supplier were not paying that premises a percentage of sales

Well, prepare to be amazed:-) Like any retail product, a vet buys food in at cost price, there is a mark up, VAT is added and it's sold. The mark up isn't enormous either, in my place staff can buy food at cost price + VAT and it's only a saving of €3 euro or so for say a bag of Burns.
We don't have a food rep visit, we order from a wholesaler but I've worked in several clinics where the food company rep visits regularly but again apart from occasional special offers which are extended to the client there is no such thing as a commission on every bag sold or whatever.
Now I do remember occasional incentives to promote certain products, but these took the form of getting a client to sign up to a diet food for instance and the nurse could then enter a draw for a car. This is a long long way off from a commission and in that particular clinic the nurses more or less ignored it because they favoured another brand of diet that did the same job.

BUACHAILL · 14-11-2015 12:59am

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

Well, prepare to be amazed:-) Like any retail product, a vet buys food in at cost price, there is a mark up, VAT is added and it's sold. The mark up isn't enormous either, in my place staff can buy food at cost price + VAT and it's only a saving of €3 euro or so for say a bag of Burns.
We don't have a food rep visit, we order from a wholesaler but I've worked in several clinics where the food company rep visits regularly but again apart from occasional special offers which are extended to the client there is no such thing as a commission on every bag sold or whatever.
Now I do remember occasional incentives to promote certain products, but these took the form of getting a client to sign up to a diet food for instance and the nurse could then enter a draw for a car. This is a long long way off from a commission and in that particular clinic the nurses more or less ignored it because they favoured another brand of diet that did the same job.

I work in sales so know how it works, I would of been of the opinion they buy it for x sell it for y and difference is their profit like you said more so than being paid to sell it.

That said why did they choose hills. It's at best a mediocre brand??? Going off the reviews and reports I have read. Not a bad food no doubt but for the money there are a lot better so what decides their choice....margin and profit its simple. They are a business and it makes them more money. The balance of profit over reputable food is the key, and it obviously gives them a good balance ....so they push it. Not necessarily because it's the best...clearly it isn't

thegreatgonzo · 14-11-2015 7:31pm

BUACHAILL wrote: »

I work in sales so know how it works, I would of been of the opinion they buy it for x sell it for y and difference is their profit like you said more so than being paid to sell it.

That said why did they choose hills. It's at best a mediocre brand??? Going off the reviews and reports I have read. Not a bad food no doubt but for the money there are a lot better so what decides their choice....margin and profit its simple. They are a business and it makes them more money. The balance of profit over reputable food is the key, and it obviously gives them a good balance ....so they push it. Not necessarily because it's the best...clearly it isn't

Well my own opinion is some of the products produced by each company are better than others they produce. My own cat did not do well on Hills science but thrived on Burns. However in 2 clinics I've worked in we've found Hill's metabolic to produce excellent results. There is no push, if we found that one product used was better than another we'd recommend that.
Margin and profit are course important but we also have a code of ethics and we are not going to lie to a client saying a product is great if we really thinks it's crap.
Can I just make the point once and for all we are not being paid to sell food.

BUACHAILL · 14-11-2015 7:57pm

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

Well my own opinion is some of the products produced by each company are better than others they produce. My own cat did not do well on Hills science but thrived on Burns. However in 2 clinics I've worked in we've found Hill's metabolic to produce excellent results. There is no push, if we found that one product used was better than another we'd recommend that.
Margin and profit are course important but we also have a code of ethics and we are not going to lie to a client saying a product is great if we really thinks it's crap.
Can I just make the point once and for all we are not being paid to sell food.

Not trying to pick the bones of what you have said but if you are making profit from it you are being paid for selling it. I do however agree with what you have said overall and thought as much. Thats the balance thing I was talking about.

thegreatgonzo · 14-11-2015 8:45pm

BUACHAILL wrote: »

Not trying to pick the bones of what you have said but if you are making profit from it you are being paid for selling it. I do however agree with what you have said overall and thought as much. Thats the balance thing I was talking about.

Well you ARE picking the bones of what I'm saying though:D
It is misleading to say that a vet practice is being paid to sell a product because that implies there is either
A: some kind of underhand dealing going on between the supplier and the practice
or
B: that there is a commission made by the practice on every product sold. Neither is true.

Puppy Food Issue

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