vrt

johndbee66 · 03-03-2015 11:31am #1

will vrt centre take into consideration of work that must be done on car in accessing amount of vrt to be paid. Car is 27 years old and needs work.

Seweryn · 03-03-2015 9:06pm

johndbee66 wrote: »

will vrt centre take into consideration of work that must be done on car in accessing amount of vrt to be paid...

No.

johndbee66 · 04-03-2015 8:49am

Seweryn · 04-03-2015 9:30am

johndbee66 wrote: »

t

NP.

Dades · 04-03-2015 11:34am

Seweryn wrote: »

No.

Really?

I had my quote cut to the minimum because the car needed some work (had a dent, and I pointed out stuff like the windows not working and the wiper motor needing replacement).

That was 5 years ago maybe things have changed.

johndbee66 - did you get a quote before bringing the car in?

Seweryn · 04-03-2015 11:58am

Dades wrote: »

That was 5 years ago maybe things have changed.

Things have changed for worse. They do not entertain any variances in the condition of a car and their figures are out of the sky. But you can still appeal the decision after you pay.

kop77 · 04-03-2015 6:18pm

Seweryn wrote: »

Things have changed for worse. They do not entertain any variances in the condition of a car and their figures are out of the sky. But you can still appeal the decision after you pay.

+1

I know a fella who got his classic car Vrt'd about 4-5 years ago for around €600 when it should have been 4 times that, the car did need work and the VRO office used a 3 grade system to value it.... but that day is gone I believe.

Seweryn · 04-03-2015 8:05pm

kop77 wrote: »

+1

I know a fella who got his classic car Vrt'd about 4-5 years ago for around €600 when it should have been 4 times that, the car did need work and the VRO office used a 3 grade system to value it.... but that day is gone I believe.

Gone and forgotten, unfortunately. These days the VRT inspection is carried out by NCT centres and they only check the chassis numbers, mileage, etc. for the paperwork. Then pull out a fee, usually higher than quoted before (if you were lucky to get a quote in the first place!).

macplaxton · 04-03-2015 8:40pm

Not forgetting that the Revenue's bottom book price is 2000 E.

36% of which is 720 E and the Vaseline is extra.

Dades · 05-03-2015 12:34pm

That was it - the 3 grade system. Got a quote in the middle grade, and the nice lady downgraded me on inspection (probably helped I had a baby girl with me).

Sorry to hear that system is gone. We are indeed doomed to figures pulled out of someone's ass.

ht9zni1gs28crp · 06-03-2015 4:36pm

macplaxton wrote: »

Not forgetting that the Revenue's bottom book price is 2000 E.

36% of which is 720 E

What are you referring to? That minimum VRT is €720? If so this is incorrect.

Back to OP you pay full whack at the VRT centre, then its up to you to appeal the cost versus the condition. Evidence is necessary but from experience if the difference is big its worthwhile...

Dades · 06-03-2015 5:21pm

Danica Plain Refrigeration wrote: »

What are you referring to? That minimum VRT is €720? If so this is incorrect.

Then that has changed too - because I paid that minimum 5 years ago.

corktina · 06-03-2015 8:10pm

€720 is the minimum as far as I knew too for a less than 30 yrs old car

macplaxton · 06-03-2015 8:36pm

Danica Plain Refrigeration wrote: »

What are you referring to? That minimum VRT is €720? If so this is incorrect.

I'm referring to the bottom book value aka Revenue OMSP. Regardless of what was paid for it or if it is worth less, the Revenue's minimum value is €2000.

The OP is discussing a 27 year old car (VRT category A). Despite some folk managing to rustle up something convincing in terms of emissions figures for some old cars, there aren't really any official CO2g/km figures for vehicles before around 1997/8. Cars without acceptable evidence showing their CO2g/km are VRT'd at 999 CO2g/km which puts them in the 36% band.

Revenue VRT page (Feb 2015): http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vrt-guide.html#section13 - "36% or €720 whichever is the greater". They arrive at this figure as the "bottom book price" is €2000.

Now if someone has Revenue acceptable evidence to show that the CO2g/km is less that 225g/km, then it will fall in a lower band and pay a lower base rate, but that still doesn't change the Revenue's 2k value figure, just the percentage band it falls in, which could be anywhere between 14% and 34%.

So I stand by my figures for:
Revenue minimum OMSP = €2000
Most likely emissions band for a 1987/8 car = >225g/km = "Band G"
Most likely VRT minimum charge = 36% of €2000 = €720.

If the car is over 30 years old, then it will fall into VRT category C which is a flat-rate €200.

If it's a motorcycle (or tricycle) then CC and age allowances apply until 30 years old. If it's a motorcycle (or tricycle) over 30 years old, then it's zero. And a car-type tricycle (like a Reliant) should be assessed this way. I've got a Revenue letter here admitting their error on a appeal I got involved with.

arthur daly · 07-03-2015 3:37pm

Vrt has been a % of the market value for at least the 10years I have been importing,the condition of a car damage, electrics not working,needs paint has never had a effect on Vrt.
It has always been make model fuel mileage etc.that has detdetermined the cost..
I think some friends of friends tell porkies,saying that I recently heard a chap was told Vrt changed and it's all done by engine size
Ie all 1l are the same price to register regardless of make model emissions they bought a car and never checked and got a whopper of a Vrt bill

johndbee66 · 07-03-2015 4:12pm

All she checked was mileage and chas number. Would not accept the car had 190,000 miles as it read only 90000. Told her car was 27 years old. Didn`t want to know. Pay up and shut up was more or less said to me. They are completely anal . Asked me why was car registered as a saloon, did look like a hatchback, but i could only go by what it was registered as before.Got caught for 720 yo-yos. Is there any point appealing?

macplaxton · 07-03-2015 6:17pm

No.

See what I said before about minimum OMSP. You got the minimum VRT, so the condition/mileage is irrelevant even if it was taken into account.

As you've learnt, if a car is (with minor exceptions) 10 - 29 years old, there's not much point in buying/importing it to be humped by the VRT bill.

Put it down to experience.

Defender77 · 09-03-2015 2:10pm

What if the car is older than 29 years?

Seweryn · 09-03-2015 2:13pm

Defender77 wrote: »

What if the car is older than 29 years?

For cars older than 30, the VRT is fixed at €200.

Dades · 09-03-2015 3:16pm

arthur daly wrote: »

Vrt has been a % of the market value for at least the 10years I have been importing,the condition of a car damage, electrics not working,needs paint has never had a effect on Vrt.

The Revenue may claim their quotes are based on market value, but clearly they are not.

Market value in any actual meaning of the term is determined by all the factors that the Revenue ignore.

homingbird · 09-03-2015 9:48pm

If you can sign the car over to your cousins in the north for 3 years while you are putting it back on the road it would save you alot of hassle.

ht9zni1gs28crp · 10-03-2015 5:09pm

johndbee66 wrote: »

Is there any point appealing?

Yes.

Write a letter outlining your market value opinions, plus condition and mileage. Include photos/evidence where possible.

You WILL get some money back.

I recently paid €510 VRT bill, wrote a letter and received €210 back.

So yes its worth appealing.

unkel · 10-03-2015 9:41pm

Danica Plain Refrigeration wrote: »

Yes.

Write a letter outlining your market value opinions, plus condition and mileage. Include photos/evidence where possible.

You WILL get some money back.

I recently paid €510 VRT bill, wrote a letter and received €210 back.

So yes its worth appealing.

What car was that? Did you have some sort of proof of emissions? Or did they suggest €510? What reasons did they give for the reduction?

macplaxton · 10-03-2015 11:19pm

As we say in Glasgow, "He'll get hee-haw back"

ht9zni1gs28crp · 11-03-2015 10:16am

unkel wrote: »

What car was that? Did you have some sort of proof of emissions? Or did they suggest €510? What reasons did they give for the reduction?

This wasn't a 10 year old car. But appeal process is the same....

Reduction was my reasoning and that I didn't agree with their market value. Evidence is key here...

unkel · 11-03-2015 10:22am

miller_63 wrote: »

This wasn't a 10 year old car. But appeal process is the same....

What was it then? As others have said, minimum VRT is €720 (if your car is under 30 years old, no matter what state the car is in) unless you can prove / show / convince them that your CO2 emissions are lower than 225g/km

How come your quote was lower than that and how come you got a reduction?

ht9zni1gs28crp · 11-03-2015 10:25am

unkel wrote: »

What was it then? As others have said, minimum VRT is €720 (if your car is under 30 years old, no matter what state the car is in) unless you can prove / show / convince them that your CO2 emissions are lower than 225g/km

How come your quote was lower than that and how come you got a reduction?

Sorry meant to be clearer, it was under 10 years old hence VRT on CO2. More my point is the appeal process does work.

I have a 29 year old car in storage in UK waiting until October. Id never be able to appeal that €720 based on condition hence im waiting for its 30th birthday.

unkel · 11-03-2015 10:53am

Danica Plain Refrigeration wrote: »

Sorry meant to be clearer, it was under 10 years old hence VRT on CO2. More my point is the appeal process does work.

You're still not very clear. What were the details of your original quote and what were the details behind the reduction?

ht9zni1gs28crp · 11-03-2015 11:19am

unkel wrote: »

You're still not very clear. What were the details of your original quote and what were the details behind the reduction?

Okay, Original quote in NCT office matched that of online VRT ROS site.

€510 was the given VRT fee based on their market rate of a 2005 Mitsubishi Colt. This was duly paid and I left with my Irish reg.

This Colt wasn't worth the current market rate due to a couple of issues.

I documented these issues, included photographs and also estimations of the cost to put these right to bring up to market value.

The rebate arrived six weeks later. The rebate amount is a lottery based upon whoever is dealing with it in Waterford. The more effort you put into the appeal the more you get back.

Dades · 11-03-2015 11:22am

The accepted market value of the car must have been VERY small and/or the CO2 emissions VERY low to get a final VRT bill of €300.

CO2 & VRT Rates:
http://vrt.ie/vrtDetail.php?page=14

I guess it's possible (even if not really relevant to classics under 30 years).

macplaxton · 11-03-2015 6:32pm

Danica Plain Refrigeration wrote: »

The rebate amount is a lottery based upon whoever is dealing with it in Waterford.

Danica Plain Refrigeration wrote: »

The more effort you put into the appeal the more you get back.

Two conflicting points there. Either it's related to effort (which it isn't) or it's a lottery (which it may be within a certain narrow range). It can't be both.

The example of a 2005 car is a moot point. We're talking about a 27 year-old car. You can't push a OMSP through the floor of €2000. It doesn't matter if it's worth or you paid €1 or €1999. €2000 is the lowest OMSP.

The only grounds for appeal is emissions banding and as I've stated before, getting Revenue acceptable evidence for anything prior to late 90s is practically futile.

macplaxton · 11-03-2015 7:34pm

Danica Plain Refrigeration wrote: »

I recently paid €510 VRT bill, wrote a letter and received €210 back.

With the exception of clerical error by the Revenue, the numbers don't stack up.

The bare minimum VRT on a 2005 Colt would be 18% on a 1.5 Diesel falling in band B1. Other Colts could be B2, C & D bands.

Now the only way I can see to get a round €300 bill is for the car is:

a) it was (wrongly) put in band A2 @15%
b) the Revenue have a new minimum VRT amount for band B1 (which they don't)
c) the Revenue paid €60 extra (which I can't see either as they don't pay out costs on top of an appeal.
d) the €210 rebate was on €570, leaving a €360 balance.

Which one was it?

johndbee66 · 11-03-2015 7:54pm

I will appeal and let you know how i get on. AS the saying goes, a dumb priest never got a parish

ht9zni1gs28crp · 12-03-2015 10:56am

I give up..... who on earth said anything about it being a frickin diesel?

Checking my records...here are the starting figures....

On 24.06.10 I paid €510 VRT on a 2005 Mitsubishi Colt 1.1 (05-MH-xxxxx). This was calculated at 18% of €2833 OMSP as deemed by VRT office.

The subsequent appeal letter was down to the condition of the car. You obviously do not believe me regarding the appeal process so I am leaving it here. The old saying of leading the horse to the water is very apt here.

Dades · 12-03-2015 12:12pm

Thanks for the clarification.

Good luck, johndbee66!

macplaxton · 12-03-2015 6:22pm

I'm not doubting you got money back from an appeal miller_63.

I'm wanting an explanation of the how the figures stack up, because what you are saying and what the Revenue state are at odds with each other.

You have finally clarified that this Colt was in Band B1 @18%.

You state that you got €210 back.

The Revenue state the minimum VRT on a Band B1 is €360.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/vrt-appeals.html

They have specified minimums VRT amounts which are percentages of minimum 2,000 OMSP.

Why does the Revenue pay back €60 more than they need to, thus charging you €60 less than the minimum?

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying suggesting it's a pen-pusher FU, as if procedure had been followed by all their own internal guides €360 is what it should have been.

Well done.

arthur daly · 14-03-2015 5:03pm

Dades wrote: »

The Revenue may claim their quotes are based on market value, but clearly they are not.

Market value in any actual meaning of the term is determined by all the factors that the Revenue ignore.

Revenue are like everything else in Ireland,unqualified people carrying out tasks or someone who got a job 30years ago and never bothered keeping up to date

X type jag diesel 2005 Vrt last June 400e
Vrt for the exact same car in October 820e

We need to sack basically everyone in government jobs and give them a chance to Re apply,it would be worth it to have competent people dealing with tasks doing their job 100% not some fool who just makes it up as go along..

We Irish are a awful lazy bunch

ba_barabus · 15-03-2015 11:05pm

Have you considered writing an opinion piece for The Daily Mail Arthur?

arthur daly · 16-03-2015 12:48pm

ba_barabus wrote: »

Have you considered writing an opinion piece for The Daily Mail Arthur?

I'm not getting your logic

vrt

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