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Wilson Kipsang, 2:04:57 at Frankfurt Marathon

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  • 31-10-2010 12:48pm
    #1
    TFBubendorfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭


    10th best marathon performance ever. Wow!


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    #2
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,115 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    The rest of the elite results are not too shabby, either:


    1. Wilson Kipsang (Kenia) 2:04:57
    2. Tadese Tola (Äthiopien) 2:06:31
    3. Elias Chelimo (Kenia) 2:07:04
    4. Philip Sanga (Äthiopien) 2:07:11
    5. Daniel Chepyegon (Uganda) 2:08:24
    6. Terefe Maregu (Äthiopien) 2:09:03
    7. Ronald Rutto (Kenia) 2:09:17
    8. Elijah Keitanyi (Kenia) 2:09:19
    9. Evans Kiplagat (Kenia) 2:10:07
    10. Henry Sugut (Kenia) 2:10:43

    Ergebnisse Frauen:

    1. Caroline Kilel (Kenia) 2:23:25
    2. Dire Tune (Äthiopien) 2:23:44
    3. Agnes Kiprop (Kenia) 2:24:07
    4. Isabellah Andersson (Schw.) 2:25:10
    5. Mare Dibaba (Äthiopien) 2:25:27
    6. Hilda Kibet (Niederlande) 2:26:33
    7. Yuliya Ruban (Ukraine) 2:27:44
    8. Yelena Sokolova (Russland) 2:28:01
    9. Hellen Kimutai (Kenia) 2:28:38
    10. Aniko Kalovics (Ungarn) 2:30:56


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    #3
    dermCu
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭dermCu


    This is getting a little bit crazy. How have marathon times dropped so much in the last 10 years? Its mad - you could make the argument that 2:10 isn't really world class any more. That's a scary thought. I'm not being intentionally cynical or suggesting that loads of these guys are up to no good but what's different now?

    Is it just that the money is now in the marathon so the best talent shifts there a lot earlier? 5 under 2:08:30 in Frankfurt; not just the winning time but the depth is frightening as well.


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    #4
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,083 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    More money to be made from winning a marathon than a 10k. There are more marathons to go around, although each person can only go for a handful a year.


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    #5
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    dermCu wrote: »
    Its mad - you could make the argument that 2:10 isn't really world class any more. That's a scary thought.

    Oh god, we aint gonna go down that road again are we! :D;)


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    #6
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    04072511 wrote: »
    Oh god, we aint gonna go down that road again are we! :D;)


    :) .....


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    #7
    dermCu
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭dermCu


    04072511 wrote: »
    Oh god, we aint gonna go down that road again are we! :D;)

    I must have missed that thread...sound epic
    robinph wrote: »
    More money to be made from winning a marathon than a 10k. There are more marathons to go around, although each person can only go for a handful a year.

    That's true and it does account for the current depth in the marathon but 15+ years ago you still had lots of marathon specialists. I just find it hard to get my head around the fact that there wasn't even a handful of the best of the best back then who could run sub 2:06. Now they are running sub 2:06 in Boston!!


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    #8
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    dermCu wrote: »
    I must have missed that thread...sound epic

    It was the DCM Live on TV thread. It was a real cracker. One of the best ones this year.
    dermCu wrote: »
    That's true and it does account for the current depth in the marathon but 15+ years ago you still had lots of marathon specialists. I just find it hard to get my head around the fact that there wasn't even a handful of the best of the best back then who could run sub 2:06. Now they are running sub 2:06 in Boston!!

    Natural progression thats all. Its the same for many events. 15 years ago the 100m WR was 9.85, now its 9.58 with a lot of people going under 9.85 these days. The 200m record was 19.6x 15 years ago, now 19.19.

    The womens Marathon WR was 2:21 back in 1995 (Ingrid Kristianson), now its 2:15. Its the same for many events. Some of the ones not to follow this trend are some of the womens events that have drug fuelled records from the 80's, most notably the GDR.


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    #9
    myflipflops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭myflipflops


    The coaches and agents of the Kenyans will tell you the improvement in marathon running is effectively down to the money available and the knock on effects of that.

    Natural progression it is not.

    Remember, it's not just an improvement at the peak (1 person is responsible for the massive improvement in the 100/200 WR's for men and marathon record for women), it is an ENORMOUS step forward in depth of the event. The number of athletes running sub 2.07 is huge. 24 have ran that quick so far this year according to IAAF top lists compared to 1 in all of 2005 and 9 in all of 2006, the last year with no global championship.

    The Kenyans say that it is simply a numbers game - the money on offer means more more of them are focussing on marathons and doing so at a much younger age. Given the dubious ages of athletes that come out of Kenya all the time, the fact that they are turning to marathons earlier in their careers is also an important factor.

    The nature of the event has changed completely. The marathon has had an Olympic mens champion from Europe as recently as 2004. The step forward in quality and depth in the last 5 years probably means that a European born male will never again win the Olympic marathon (barring some unthinkable change in culture and sporting patterns).

    The winning time in Dublin ranked him 65th or so for the year so far. For this he won 20k. The 65th ranked 5k runner this year was running maybe 13.18. You might get a few hundred euros for winning a race like that. The Kenyans (and the Ethiopians I'm sure) see the marathon as the most accessible way to make a living in athletics right now. That's why there has been such an improvement.

    I would say the only events with comparable improvements in standards over the previous 5/10 years are the womens pole vault and womens steeple chase and that is simply becuase they are 'new' events.


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    #10
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    myflipflops wrote: »
    The coaches and agents of the Kenyans will tell you the improvement in marathon running is effectively down to the money available and the knock on effects of that.

    Natural progression it is not.

    Remember, it's not just an improvement at the peak (1 person is responsible for the massive improvement in the 100/200 WR's for men and marathon record for women), it is an ENORMOUS step forward in depth of the event. The number of athletes running sub 2.07 is huge. 24 have ran that quick so far this year according to IAAF top lists compared to 1 in all of 2005 and 9 in all of 2006, the last year with no global championship.

    The Kenyans say that it is simply a numbers game - the money on offer means more more of them are focussing on marathons and doing so at a much younger age. Given the dubious ages of athletes that come out of Kenya all the time, the fact that they are turning to marathons earlier in their careers is also an important factor.

    The nature of the event has changed completely. The marathon has had an Olympic mens champion from Europe as recently as 2004. The step forward in quality and depth in the last 5 years probably means that a European born male will never again win the Olympic marathon (barring some unthinkable change in culture and sporting patterns).

    The winning time in Dublin ranked him 65th or so for the year so far. For this he won 20k. The 65th ranked 5k runner this year was running maybe 13.18. You might get a few hundred euros for winning a race like that. The Kenyans (and the Ethiopians I'm sure) see the marathon as the most accessible way to make a living in athletics right now. That's why there has been such an improvement.

    I would say the only events with comparable improvements in standards over the previous 5/10 years are the womens pole vault and womens steeple chase and that is simply becuase they are 'new' events.

    Very good post, I'd love to see the numbers on Kenyan running and how many are making a living from it. I was looking at a Marathon next year where the winning time will be well over the 2:20 mark but it will be Kenyan runners that win this again. There must be a huge amount of Kanyans running for a living these days.


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    #11
    dermCu
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭dermCu


    04072511 wrote: »
    It was the DCM Live on TV thread. It was a real cracker. One of the best ones this year.

    Natural progression thats all. Its the same for many events. 15 years ago the 100m WR was 9.85, now its 9.58 with a lot of people going under 9.85 these days. The 200m record was 19.6x 15 years ago, now 19.19.

    The womens Marathon WR was 2:21 back in 1995 (Ingrid Kristianson), now its 2:15. Its the same for many events. Some of the ones not to follow this trend are some of the womens events that have drug fuelled records from the 80's, most notably the GDR.

    I think you picked two bad examples. Both Bolt and Radcliff are complete outliers in their events. Whereas in the mens marathon you have 5 or 6 guys who are all taking about having a crack at the WR
    I have to agree with myflipflops. Personally I believe its a change in mindset that the Kenyan/Ethiopian coaches and agents have been hammering home over the last few years. Its not just that the money is in the marathon - the money is in fast marathons. The days of championship style strategic races at the big city marathons are over. Now its a time trial.


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    #12
    stmochtas
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭stmochtas


    On that subject

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/29/sports/29marathon.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss


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    #13
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,083 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    What is stopping other people from going to race him in Berlin if they are so desperate to have a pop at him?


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    #14
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    robinph wrote: »
    What is stopping other people from going to race him in Berlin if they are so desperate to have a pop at him?
    $$$$$


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    #15
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,083 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Race entry looks to be about €60 on their website, I'm sure someone could lend them the cash if they are that desperate.


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    #16
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    robinph wrote: »
    Race entry looks to be about €60 on their website, I'm sure someone could lend them the cash if they are that desperate.

    Ah now you couldnt have all the top guys running one event, unless you agree that they are all winners and share the fund ;).


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    #17
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,083 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    We were all winners in DCM last week, well I got a medal anyway. :D

    Anyone complaining about Geb not racing them is being daft, unless they have something to suggest that the likes of Berlin are not accepting approaches from their agents to give anyone but him and a few pacemakers a number.

    They are racing less speedy courses because they can win them and get some money.


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    #18
    fiddy3
    Registered Users Posts: 138 ✭✭fiddy3


    Wanjiru wanted to run Berlin 2009 versus Haile, it was his first choice last autumn, but he was blocked and had to switch to Chicago. The reason reported was "unknown politics", maybe because Berlin couldn't afford Haile and Sammy in the same race, maybe because Haile's team didn't want Wanjiru getting in the way of his WR attempt, we don't know really.


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