Keane V Berbatov [One big happy merged thread]

Boggles · 05-08-2008 4:01pm #1

Stemming from a debate in one of the Threads. With Keane already Departed and Berbatov looking on his way. Who would you prefer to have in your team and Why?

Edit: If people don't vote for Keane, please do not turn into you have insulted us all, high horse thread. Thank You.

gustavo · 05-08-2008 4:06pm

Berbatov

Voted Keane but then thinking about it my team needs a target man type player more really so I'd have to pick Berbatov for that

yahoo_moe · 05-08-2008 4:07pm

Berbatov - his passing is more intelligent, his technique and touch are better and he's better in the air, giving you more options. Maybe not quite as clinical a finisher but even on that front, I'm not quite sure I'd put Keane out ahead (and certainly not by much). For me, Keane's only clear "lead" is in workrate but with Berbatov's skill up front, I wouldn't necessarily want him working back beyond the halfway line.

SantryRed · 05-08-2008 4:10pm

I'd take Berbatov over Keane any day. He offers a lot more.

jaykay74 · 05-08-2008 4:11pm

Boggles wrote: »

Stemming from a debate in one of the Threads. With Keane already Departed and Berbatov looking on his way. Who would you prefer to have in your team and Why?

Edit: If people don't vote for Keane, please do not turn into you have insulted us all, high horse thread. Thank You.

Personally I'd go with Roy but since he's retired, crocked and has a new job I don't see any way back for him.

Robbie suits Liverpools squad and Berb suits Man Utd squad (if he ends up going there). Robbie at Utd wouldn't work with Rooney/Tevez already dropping deep.

Boggles · 05-08-2008 4:15pm

jaykay74 wrote: »

Robbie suits Liverpools squad and Berb suits Man Utd squad (if he ends up going there). Robbie at Utd wouldn't work with Rooney/Tevez already dropping deep.

Berbatov can drop deep aswell in fairness, he has a fantastic assist record in the league.

22 Assists just in the league in 2 seasons.

Tusky · 05-08-2008 4:18pm

Its a tough one. Berbatov is definitely more talented and more skilful but his attitude would really really annoy me. Keanes football may not be as easy on the eye but his record is just as good as Berbatovs.

Hmm - I'd have to think about it a bit more.

Karmafaerie · 05-08-2008 4:18pm

Berbatov

Berbatov is the laziest striker in the Premiership.
With the obvious exception of Mark "what does run off the ball mean" Viduka.

Look at all of the best strikers.

Rooney
Torres
Drogba
Teves
etc...

All run like horses.
And look like they want the ball.

Berba came to Spurs and benifited imensly from Keanes form.
Keane does all the work for him.
Berba never tracks back, never fights for the ball, and never looks interested in helping the team.

While they've been at Spurs, Keanes record has been better, even though he has to do half of Berba's job for him!

Berbatov
Season_______________Games____________Goals
2006-07________________33_______________23
2007-08________________36_______________23

Total __________________69_______________46

Keane
Season_______________Games____________Goals
2006–07________________27_______________22
2007–08________________36_______________23

Total __________________63_______________45

Without Keane to babysit him, Berba will have a bad season if he stays with Spurs.

Simple question really.

meditraitor · 05-08-2008 4:21pm

Younger
Taller
Stronger
Better Touch
More Goals for clubs and country
[spits]ferguson[/spits] like him so which says a lot.

Obviously better than keane but for Liverpool keane is a better signing with the setup Benitez is trying. (Still not worth 20m--- here come the limerick mob to deny my right to an opinion ;-))))))

FunkZ · 05-08-2008 4:21pm

I'd rather Keane and Torres, over Torres and Barbatov. So Keane

astrofool · 05-08-2008 4:26pm

Should wait and see if Berbatov moves to Manu first before the Manu/Pool bitch fest begins.

Boggles · 05-08-2008 4:27pm

Karmafaerie wrote: »

While they've been at Spurs, Keanes record has been better, even though he has to do half of Berba's job for him!

Just the league in the past 2 seasons.

Berbatov 27 goals, 22 Assists.

Keane 26 Goals, 10 Assists.

To suggest Keane is doing Berbatovs job for him is ridiculous, Berbatov has laid on more goals for Keane than vice versa.

Berbatov plays the majority of the time up top, you don't expect your lone striker to be clearing balls off the line.

~Rebel~ · 05-08-2008 4:31pm

Berbatov

Its a horses for courses debate imo.

For liverpool, in a 4-4-2 id probably go with berbatov, but in any other system, such as the most likely 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, i'd go keane.

Kold · 05-08-2008 4:41pm

Berbatov for me.

zAbbo · 05-08-2008 4:44pm

Berbatov

Keane because he's Irish

Jazzy · 05-08-2008 5:05pm

Berbatov, obviously

jesus_thats_gre · 05-08-2008 5:54pm

meditraitor wrote: »

Younger

He is barely 5 months younger....

For Liverpool, I would prefer Keane. It is not that I rate Keane as a better player as such. I just think he will fit in better, is virtually the same age, costs half the amount and over the past 2 or so years, has a superior goals to game ratio.

I think I am going to go start an argument on the United thread suggesting that United should be trying to buy Messi instead of making the loan deal for Tevez permanent. Then I will start a thread with a poll titled - Messi or Tevez?

I generally don't mind most of your post Boggles and find the many accusations of trolling to be quite funny. Between your assertions yesterday that Alonso was a backup player for Liverpool last season and the simplistic nature of this thread that lacks any real context, I really do wonder what it is you are trying to achieve.

Boggles · 05-08-2008 6:00pm

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

costs half the amount

I doubt Berbatov will be sold for 40 million.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I think I am going to go start an argument on the United thread suggesting that United should be trying to buy Messi instead of making the loan deal for Tevez permanent. Then I will start a thread with a poll titled - Messi or Tevez?
I generally don't mind most of your post Boggles and find the many accusations of trolling to be quite funny. Between your assertions yesterday that Alonso was a backup player for Liverpool last season and the simplistic nature of this thread that lacks any real context, I really do wonder what it is you are trying to achieve.

I didn't start the debate, it was between 2 Liverpool fans and it wasn't my idea for this thread.

Stop taking everthing so bloody personally, it is a reasoned debate, there is no need to attack me.

dfx- · 05-08-2008 6:08pm

Berbatov

I personally wouldn't take either, [fights back hordes] but even going back to his Leverkusen days I haven't rated Berbatov [/fights back hordes], so Keane by a fingernail.

Peyton Manning · 05-08-2008 6:16pm

Great, just the catalyst needed to start my Anderson vs Lucas, Vidic vs Skrtel, Ronaldo vs Torres and Rooney vs Gerrard threads!

jesus_thats_gre · 05-08-2008 6:16pm

Boggles wrote: »

Stop taking everthing so bloody personally, it is a reasoned debate, there is no need to attack me.

I am not taking it personal and I didn't attack you personally either.

The argument is reasonable. How the question was asked isn't.

Boggles · 05-08-2008 6:20pm

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

The argument is reasonable. How the question was asked isn't.

Jesus get over it, it's not like the power of Satan compelled you to click on the thread.

therecklessone · 05-08-2008 6:24pm

At the risk of being accused of being a bitter Spurs fan because Keane left and Berbatov is still there (for the moment...;)), though it's worth pointing out I spent the 2nd half in Rotterdam on Sunday vs Dortmund calling him a lazy Bulgarian *&%$...

Berbatov every time. He can play as a lone forward, or as either the provider or goalscorer of a forward two. He's a better header of the ball and can hold a ball up better. Crucially, his movement off the ball is far better.

That said, Berbatov is unlikely to do most if not all of the above if he's not motivated, which he is unlikely to be if he stays at Spurs.

jesus_thats_gre · 05-08-2008 6:24pm

Just as satan didn't compel you to to read my post that criticised how you asked the question.

Boggles · 05-08-2008 6:27pm

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Just as satan didn't compel you to to read my post that criticised how you asked the question.

I'll tell you so, what exactly is the problem you have with the question and I will rephrase it. No Probs.

Peyton Manning · 05-08-2008 6:35pm

Boggles, you sure are getting in a lot of arguments lately. I dont understand it though, I could never argue with someone with a name so damn adorable as Boggles.

I got yo' back homie.

Jazzy · 05-08-2008 6:51pm

Archimedes wrote: »

getting in a lot of arguments lately.

lately? i dont think ive ever seen him post on this forum when not in an arguement.

and yes the point of this thread is to say that man utd's prospective new striker is better then the striker liverpool just bought.
wat else can u expect from the Manchester United Vs. Liverpool Forum featuring the League of Ireland ?

~Rebel~ · 05-08-2008 7:01pm

Berbatov

Archimedes wrote: »

Vidic vs Skrtel

Sir, I will pay you good money to see this fight!

Boggles · 05-08-2008 7:09pm

Jazzy wrote: »

lately? i dont think ive ever seen him post on this forum when not in an arguement.

and yes the point of this thread is to say that man utd's prospective new striker is better then the striker liverpool just bought.
wat else can u expect from the Manchester United Vs. Liverpool Forum featuring the League of Ireland ?

United have pulled interest on Berbatov because Spurs were asking too much. I'd be pretty convinced they have turned their attentions elsewhere, I'd stake money on it being Huntalaer.

I wish just once we could have a debate on here without certain supporters tightening their panties.

It is not the place to discuss me or anything else not relevant to Keane or Berbatov, start your own thread if you want to do that, probably the ladies lounge would be most appropriate for some of ye.

Jazzy · 05-08-2008 7:21pm

Boggles wrote: »

United have pulled interest on Berbatov because Spurs were asking too much. I'd be pretty convinced they have turned their attentions elsewhere, I'd stake money on it being Huntalaer.

yes cos utd have never ever been connected with berb. not for the past year or anything.

berbatov is clearly the more skillfull and more in demand player (linked with Barca, AC etc.) whereas when Keane wanted to leave he was linked with only one club. do u think milan or barca would be more interested in keane or berbatov ?

so there ya go professor. case closed. berbatov is the better player... why? cos these big money clubs with professionally paid scouting networks and so forth know far better wat they are doing then anyone on this forum.
so why was this thread started? and dont give me gibberish about "loose debate with all the hustle bustle style of the 1990s".
i couldnt give a toss about who is better between the 2 players as its obvious, but i do give a toss about ppl opening threads just to try and get under the skin of various supporters (in ur case boggles, pool fans) with the undertones of "debate and discussion". as alan partridge and his friend Dan would say - "thats saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad"

Peyton Manning · 05-08-2008 7:24pm

Jazzy wrote: »

as alan partridge and his friend Dan would say - "thats saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad"

back of the net!

Jazzy · 05-08-2008 7:33pm

and to drive a point home....

boggles you posted this at 15:42 today -

boggles wrote:

Apologies didn't know you were selecting limited scoring records to prove your point.

I was more going with

Berbatov

333 Played
173 Scored

Keane

444 Played
169 Scored

You can argue the toss about the different levels they played at, but don't drag Vorinon into it for Christ sake, it cheapens the debate.

then went on to start a new thread at 16:00

and at half 4 you posted -

boggles wrote:

Just the league in the past 2 seasons.

Berbatov 27 goals, 22 Assists.

Keane 26 Goals, 10 Assists.

have you not answered your own questions there mate? did you not see from the easy to find evidence that yes - berbatov is the better player? or did you need clarification from the boardsies here just to make sure? quit the pre tense, as mr alan says ur a clever enough bloke and you knew exactly wat you were doing

Mr Alan · 05-08-2008 8:16pm

I retracted that "clever enough bloke" statement a long time ago

Pigman II · 05-08-2008 8:30pm

Berbatov

Berbatov has a stupid haircut. Therefore Keane is better.

Ekels · 05-08-2008 9:13pm

I'm a United fan, so I guess Berba is the obvious choice.

However, if I were a fan of anyone other than United, and maybe Chelsea and Liverpool, I'd say Keane, definitely. He just seemed to have an uplifting presence when he lined out for Spurs, with his busy movement and inspirational prescence.

A few Spurs fans on another board often refer to Keane as some sort of demi-God. I'm assuming he'd have this sort of effect at another club.

Boggles · 05-08-2008 9:14pm

Sweet Jesus the sooner a large faction of the Scouse Supporters get there own private forum the better, I have never come across a more argumentative bunch of uptight forum contributors in all my time on boards.

I have said repeatedly Keane is an excellent signing and will be a huge success at Liverpool, the debate of who in peoples OPINIONS would be the better signing arose in the Liverpool thread and it wasn't by me, it was subsequently asked to be moved to its own thread by a moderator. Which I dually did. Mainly I'm guessing because if you have any sort of differing opinion in the Liverpool thread you are shot down with accusations of troll and blatant name calling.

I asked in the original post not to let it descend into another grudge match, but instead of debating 2 players of similar value, it is dragged down by the same crew as usual who can't rise above their insecurities. Your right Zazzy it is sad, not as sad as your predictability thou, well done. You can have the thread.

PHB · 05-08-2008 9:20pm

Keane is a very good player.
Berbatov is a special player.

Jazzy · 05-08-2008 9:42pm

Boggles wrote: »

OPINIONS

the common cry of someone on forums when the argument goes beyond their reach

boggles wrote:

Your right Jazzy it is sad, not as sad as your predictability thou, well done. You can have the thread.

yup, i will.
well well, the one time i actually bother to do some constructive countering i win. ^^

PHB wrote: »

Keane is a very good player.
Berbatov is a special player.

this whole thread could have been summed up with that

Thanx 4 The Fish · 05-08-2008 9:57pm

Berbatov

Keane is a professional.
Berbatov is bordering on the Anelka.

Dont be at yourself · 05-08-2008 9:59pm

I dont get the fuss about Berbatov. He's lazy, he's selfish and he has no pace. I don't think he'll ever be anything more than a big fish in a small pond.

06/07
The much maligned Dirk Kuyt 34 games, 12 goals
Dimitar Berbatov 33 games, 12 goals
Yakubu 37 games, 12 goals
Robbie Keane 27 games, 11 goals

07/08
Berbatov 36 games, 15 goals
Keane 36 games, 15 goals
Benjani 36 games, 15 goals
Yakubu 29 games, 15 goals
Carew 32 games, 13 goals
Santa Cruz 36 games, 19 goals

Statistics only tell so much, but nothing there suggests that he is a 'special' player. His goals and his ratios have been matched and beaten by players playing in lesser teams, and by players who offer more to their teams than Berbatov does.

That's not to say he's a bad player. He's certainly in and around the level of Robbie Keane. However, he is not worth any where near some the the valuations being thrown around. Nor, for my money, is he one of Europe's top strikers, on a par with Etoo, Villa, Torres, Rooney or other players who one may deem 'special'.

mormank · 05-08-2008 10:08pm

Berbatov

as a pool fan torres is the man and i think keane will compliment him far better than berbatov would. berbatov wouldnt like being second fiddle to torres i reckon. And he would be second fiddle!! no question

therecklessone · 05-08-2008 10:37pm

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Keane is a professional.
Berbatov is bordering on the Anelka.

Keane has shown petulance on the pitch after being substituted (including one occasion when he was wearing the captain's armband), and when he lost his place to Jermaine Defoe a number of years ago there were rumblings of him demanding his place back or a move away from the club.

Berbatov is a sulky so-and-so but lets not beatify Keane just yet.

NekkidBibleMan wrote:

I dont get the fuss about Berbatov. He's lazy, he's selfish and he has no pace.

I'm sorry, but that is utter tosh.

In 81 starts and 10 sub appearances for Spurs, he has contributed:

46 goals
27 assists

In all competitions.

In the preceding 3 seasons at Leverkusen he averaged better than a goal every 2 games in the Bundesliega.

He also shared the task of scoring goals with Keane last season, and with Keane and Defoe (22 and 18 goals respectively) the year before.

MisterAnarchy · 05-08-2008 11:03pm

No comparison between the two.
Like comparing a pigs ear to silk
Berbatov is a far superior player in every aspect.

eZe^ · 05-08-2008 11:27pm

Barca have too many strikers similar to Keane, Bojan is 17 and is the same mould, will be a better version of him in a couple of years. We need a good target man, therefore I'd pick Berbatov. (note- I do think Keane is a good player though)

Mr Alan · 05-08-2008 11:34pm

Ngog is better than them both.

end thread.

Villain · 05-08-2008 11:51pm

I wonder do people really think before posting opinions on players, I mean Berbatov is a very different style player than Keane in many ways, he likes to take the ball into him with his back to Goal then link up with other team mates but he can also take on a player and use his great ball control to create goals.

I mean all the stats I have seen talk about Goals which fair enough is the main aim of a striker but most strikers don't create their goals on their own they need be assisted i.e. why players get awarded assists.

So instead of just looking at goals which if you take the last two seasons in the Premier League only Berba has scored 27 and Keane has scored 26 so not much in it there.

But if you look at assists for the Premier League over the last 2 seasons:
Berba has 22
Keane has 10
Now thats a big difference and shows the other aspect of Berbatov's game, it would be interesting if anyone had facts on how many of those Assists for Berba resulted in Goals for Keane, I think Keane is excellent but I think he needs a certain type of striking partner to be at his best and I think Torres might just be a bit too simalar to Keane.

Whereas I think Berba and Rooney would be a lethal combination.

Boggles · 05-08-2008 11:52pm

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I dont get the fuss about Berbatov. He's lazy, he's selfish and he has no pace.

Well he is a smoker.

Honestly how can he be selfish with 27 assists in 2 years?

As for having no pace, he is hardly the slowest and is impossible at times to knock off the ball I don't think I have seen a player of his intelligence since Bergkamp in his prime. Some of his finishes are special.

Mr Alan · 05-08-2008 11:54pm

Berbatov is quality but over-rated.

Keane is quality but under-rated.

I'd probably rate Berba a little higher over all, but Keane is more a Liverpool type of player and more the type of player that we need.

Mr Alan · 11-09-2008 1:33pm

bump

Mitch Connor · 11-09-2008 1:42pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Berbatov is quality but over-rated.

Keane is quality but under-rated.

I'd probably rate Berba a little higher over all, but Keane is more a Liverpool type of player and more the type of player that we need.

Berbatov is over-rated, yeah - but Keane being under-rated? Nah, not for me he isn't. People's general opinion of Keane is fair - he is a good player who can be great on occasion. He's not world class or anything though.

Mr Alan · 11-09-2008 1:44pm

so wat makes Berba world class, but not Keane? I rate Berba higher, dont get me wrong....but 10m higher? at 31m?

Would take Keane at 20m everyday of the week. and i dont like Keane. never have.

Keane V Berbatov [One big happy merged thread]

Keane or Berbatov 43 votes

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