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Keane V Berbatov [One big happy merged thread]

  • 05-08-2008 4:01pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,568 ✭✭✭✭


    Stemming from a debate in one of the Threads. With Keane already Departed and Berbatov looking on his way. Who would you prefer to have in your team and Why?

    Edit: If people don't vote for Keane, please do not turn into you have insulted us all, high horse thread. Thank You.

    Keane or Berbatov 43 votes

    Keane
    0%
    Berbatov
    100%
    IllkillyaKulganThanx 4 The FishSamuraisuper_furryDaveHzAbboLizardKingmachiavellianmePigman IIAbdielChardee MacDennismicksxabichopperbyrneKarmafaerieLister1emc2~Rebel~sweetie 43 votes


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭gustavo


    Berbatov
    Voted Keane but then thinking about it my team needs a target man type player more really so I'd have to pick Berbatov for that


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭yahoo_moe


    Berbatov - his passing is more intelligent, his technique and touch are better and he's better in the air, giving you more options. Maybe not quite as clinical a finisher but even on that front, I'm not quite sure I'd put Keane out ahead (and certainly not by much). For me, Keane's only clear "lead" is in workrate but with Berbatov's skill up front, I wouldn't necessarily want him working back beyond the halfway line.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭SantryRed


    I'd take Berbatov over Keane any day. He offers a lot more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,586 ✭✭✭jaykay74


    Boggles wrote: »
    Stemming from a debate in one of the Threads. With Keane already Departed and Berbatov looking on his way. Who would you prefer to have in your team and Why?

    Edit: If people don't vote for Keane, please do not turn into you have insulted us all, high horse thread. Thank You.

    Personally I'd go with Roy but since he's retired, crocked and has a new job I don't see any way back for him.

    Robbie suits Liverpools squad and Berb suits Man Utd squad (if he ends up going there). Robbie at Utd wouldn't work with Rooney/Tevez already dropping deep.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,568 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    jaykay74 wrote: »
    Robbie suits Liverpools squad and Berb suits Man Utd squad (if he ends up going there). Robbie at Utd wouldn't work with Rooney/Tevez already dropping deep.

    Berbatov can drop deep aswell in fairness, he has a fantastic assist record in the league.

    22 Assists just in the league in 2 seasons.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,065 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    Its a tough one. Berbatov is definitely more talented and more skilful but his attitude would really really annoy me. Keanes football may not be as easy on the eye but his record is just as good as Berbatovs.

    Hmm - I'd have to think about it a bit more.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,871 ✭✭✭Karmafaerie


    Berbatov
    Berbatov is the laziest striker in the Premiership.
    With the obvious exception of Mark "what does run off the ball mean" Viduka.

    Look at all of the best strikers.

    Rooney
    Torres
    Drogba
    Teves
    etc...

    All run like horses.
    And look like they want the ball.

    Berba came to Spurs and benifited imensly from Keanes form.
    Keane does all the work for him.
    Berba never tracks back, never fights for the ball, and never looks interested in helping the team.

    While they've been at Spurs, Keanes record has been better, even though he has to do half of Berba's job for him!


    Berbatov
    Season_______________Games____________Goals
    2006-07________________33_______________23
    2007-08________________36_______________23

    Total __________________69_______________46

    Keane
    Season_______________Games____________Goals
    2006–07________________27_______________22
    2007–08________________36_______________23

    Total __________________63_______________45


    Without Keane to babysit him, Berba will have a bad season if he stays with Spurs.

    Simple question really.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    Younger
    Taller
    Stronger
    Better Touch
    More Goals for clubs and country
    [spits]ferguson[/spits] like him so which says a lot.

    Obviously better than keane but for Liverpool keane is a better signing with the setup Benitez is trying. (Still not worth 20m--- here come the limerick mob to deny my right to an opinion ;-))))))


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,179 ✭✭✭FunkZ


    I'd rather Keane and Torres, over Torres and Barbatov. So Keane :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Should wait and see if Berbatov moves to Manu first before the Manu/Pool bitch fest begins.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,568 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    While they've been at Spurs, Keanes record has been better, even though he has to do half of Berba's job for him!

    Just the league in the past 2 seasons.

    Berbatov 27 goals, 22 Assists.

    Keane 26 Goals, 10 Assists.

    To suggest Keane is doing Berbatovs job for him is ridiculous, Berbatov has laid on more goals for Keane than vice versa.

    Berbatov plays the majority of the time up top, you don't expect your lone striker to be clearing balls off the line.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,981 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Berbatov
    Its a horses for courses debate imo.

    For liverpool, in a 4-4-2 id probably go with berbatov, but in any other system, such as the most likely 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, i'd go keane.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭Kold


    Berbatov for me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,987 ✭✭✭✭zAbbo


    Berbatov
    Keane because he's Irish


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    Berbatov, obviously


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,441 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Younger

    He is barely 5 months younger....

    For Liverpool, I would prefer Keane. It is not that I rate Keane as a better player as such. I just think he will fit in better, is virtually the same age, costs half the amount and over the past 2 or so years, has a superior goals to game ratio.




    I think I am going to go start an argument on the United thread suggesting that United should be trying to buy Messi instead of making the loan deal for Tevez permanent. Then I will start a thread with a poll titled - Messi or Tevez?


    I generally don't mind most of your post Boggles and find the many accusations of trolling to be quite funny. Between your assertions yesterday that Alonso was a backup player for Liverpool last season and the simplistic nature of this thread that lacks any real context, I really do wonder what it is you are trying to achieve.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,568 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    costs half the amount

    I doubt Berbatov will be sold for 40 million.
    I think I am going to go start an argument on the United thread suggesting that United should be trying to buy Messi instead of making the loan deal for Tevez permanent. Then I will start a thread with a poll titled - Messi or Tevez?
    I generally don't mind most of your post Boggles and find the many accusations of trolling to be quite funny. Between your assertions yesterday that Alonso was a backup player for Liverpool last season and the simplistic nature of this thread that lacks any real context, I really do wonder what it is you are trying to achieve.

    I didn't start the debate, it was between 2 Liverpool fans and it wasn't my idea for this thread.

    Stop taking everthing so bloody personally, it is a reasoned debate, there is no need to attack me.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    Berbatov
    I personally wouldn't take either, [fights back hordes] but even going back to his Leverkusen days I haven't rated Berbatov [/fights back hordes], so Keane by a fingernail.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    Great, just the catalyst needed to start my Anderson vs Lucas, Vidic vs Skrtel, Ronaldo vs Torres and Rooney vs Gerrard threads!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,441 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Boggles wrote: »
    Stop taking everthing so bloody personally, it is a reasoned debate, there is no need to attack me.

    I am not taking it personal and I didn't attack you personally either.


    The argument is reasonable. How the question was asked isn't.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,568 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The argument is reasonable. How the question was asked isn't.

    Jesus get over it, it's not like the power of Satan compelled you to click on the thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    At the risk of being accused of being a bitter Spurs fan because Keane left and Berbatov is still there (for the moment...;)), though it's worth pointing out I spent the 2nd half in Rotterdam on Sunday vs Dortmund calling him a lazy Bulgarian *&%$...

    Berbatov every time. He can play as a lone forward, or as either the provider or goalscorer of a forward two. He's a better header of the ball and can hold a ball up better. Crucially, his movement off the ball is far better.

    That said, Berbatov is unlikely to do most if not all of the above if he's not motivated, which he is unlikely to be if he stays at Spurs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,441 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Just as satan didn't compel you to to read my post that criticised how you asked the question.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,568 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Just as satan didn't compel you to to read my post that criticised how you asked the question.

    I'll tell you so, what exactly is the problem you have with the question and I will rephrase it. No Probs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    Boggles, you sure are getting in a lot of arguments lately. I dont understand it though, I could never argue with someone with a name so damn adorable as Boggles.

    I got yo' back homie.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    Archimedes wrote: »
    getting in a lot of arguments lately.


    lately? i dont think ive ever seen him post on this forum when not in an arguement.


    and yes the point of this thread is to say that man utd's prospective new striker is better then the striker liverpool just bought.
    wat else can u expect from the Manchester United Vs. Liverpool Forum featuring the League of Ireland ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,981 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Berbatov
    Archimedes wrote: »
    Vidic vs Skrtel

    Sir, I will pay you good money to see this fight!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,568 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Jazzy wrote: »
    lately? i dont think ive ever seen him post on this forum when not in an arguement.


    and yes the point of this thread is to say that man utd's prospective new striker is better then the striker liverpool just bought.
    wat else can u expect from the Manchester United Vs. Liverpool Forum featuring the League of Ireland ?

    United have pulled interest on Berbatov because Spurs were asking too much. I'd be pretty convinced they have turned their attentions elsewhere, I'd stake money on it being Huntalaer.

    I wish just once we could have a debate on here without certain supporters tightening their panties.

    It is not the place to discuss me or anything else not relevant to Keane or Berbatov, start your own thread if you want to do that, probably the ladies lounge would be most appropriate for some of ye.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    Boggles wrote: »
    United have pulled interest on Berbatov because Spurs were asking too much. I'd be pretty convinced they have turned their attentions elsewhere, I'd stake money on it being Huntalaer.

    yes cos utd have never ever been connected with berb. not for the past year or anything.

    berbatov is clearly the more skillfull and more in demand player (linked with Barca, AC etc.) whereas when Keane wanted to leave he was linked with only one club. do u think milan or barca would be more interested in keane or berbatov ?

    so there ya go professor. case closed. berbatov is the better player... why? cos these big money clubs with professionally paid scouting networks and so forth know far better wat they are doing then anyone on this forum.
    so why was this thread started? and dont give me gibberish about "loose debate with all the hustle bustle style of the 1990s".
    i couldnt give a toss about who is better between the 2 players as its obvious, but i do give a toss about ppl opening threads just to try and get under the skin of various supporters (in ur case boggles, pool fans) with the undertones of "debate and discussion". as alan partridge and his friend Dan would say - "thats saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad"


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    Jazzy wrote: »
    as alan partridge and his friend Dan would say - "thats saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad"

    back of the net!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    and to drive a point home....


    boggles you posted this at 15:42 today -
    boggles wrote:
    Apologies didn't know you were selecting limited scoring records to prove your point.

    I was more going with

    Berbatov

    333 Played
    173 Scored

    Keane

    444 Played
    169 Scored

    You can argue the toss about the different levels they played at, but don't drag Vorinon into it for Christ sake, it cheapens the debate.

    then went on to start a new thread at 16:00

    and at half 4 you posted -
    boggles wrote:
    Just the league in the past 2 seasons.

    Berbatov 27 goals, 22 Assists.

    Keane 26 Goals, 10 Assists.



    have you not answered your own questions there mate? did you not see from the easy to find evidence that yes - berbatov is the better player? or did you need clarification from the boardsies here just to make sure? quit the pre tense, as mr alan says ur a clever enough bloke and you knew exactly wat you were doing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    I retracted that "clever enough bloke" statement a long time ago ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,921 ✭✭✭✭Pigman II


    Berbatov
    Berbatov has a stupid haircut. Therefore Keane is better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭Ekels


    I'm a United fan, so I guess Berba is the obvious choice.

    However, if I were a fan of anyone other than United, and maybe Chelsea and Liverpool, I'd say Keane, definitely. He just seemed to have an uplifting presence when he lined out for Spurs, with his busy movement and inspirational prescence.

    A few Spurs fans on another board often refer to Keane as some sort of demi-God. I'm assuming he'd have this sort of effect at another club.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,568 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Sweet Jesus the sooner a large faction of the Scouse Supporters get there own private forum the better, I have never come across a more argumentative bunch of uptight forum contributors in all my time on boards.

    I have said repeatedly Keane is an excellent signing and will be a huge success at Liverpool, the debate of who in peoples OPINIONS would be the better signing arose in the Liverpool thread and it wasn't by me, it was subsequently asked to be moved to its own thread by a moderator. Which I dually did. Mainly I'm guessing because if you have any sort of differing opinion in the Liverpool thread you are shot down with accusations of troll and blatant name calling.

    I asked in the original post not to let it descend into another grudge match, but instead of debating 2 players of similar value, it is dragged down by the same crew as usual who can't rise above their insecurities. Your right Zazzy it is sad, not as sad as your predictability thou, well done. You can have the thread.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Keane is a very good player.
    Berbatov is a special player.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    Boggles wrote: »
    OPINIONS

    the common cry of someone on forums when the argument goes beyond their reach

    boggles wrote:
    Your right Jazzy it is sad, not as sad as your predictability thou, well done. You can have the thread.

    yup, i will.
    well well, the one time i actually bother to do some constructive countering i win. ^^

    mkfatalitykg4.png
    mkfatalitykg4.34c511af73.jpg

    PHB wrote: »
    Keane is a very good player.
    Berbatov is a special player.

    this whole thread could have been summed up with that


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,399 ✭✭✭✭Thanx 4 The Fish


    Berbatov
    Keane is a professional.
    Berbatov is bordering on the Anelka.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,585 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    I dont get the fuss about Berbatov. He's lazy, he's selfish and he has no pace. I don't think he'll ever be anything more than a big fish in a small pond.

    06/07
    The much maligned Dirk Kuyt 34 games, 12 goals
    Dimitar Berbatov 33 games, 12 goals
    Yakubu 37 games, 12 goals
    Robbie Keane 27 games, 11 goals

    07/08
    Berbatov 36 games, 15 goals
    Keane 36 games, 15 goals
    Benjani 36 games, 15 goals
    Yakubu 29 games, 15 goals
    Carew 32 games, 13 goals
    Santa Cruz 36 games, 19 goals

    Statistics only tell so much, but nothing there suggests that he is a 'special' player. His goals and his ratios have been matched and beaten by players playing in lesser teams, and by players who offer more to their teams than Berbatov does.

    That's not to say he's a bad player. He's certainly in and around the level of Robbie Keane. However, he is not worth any where near some the the valuations being thrown around. Nor, for my money, is he one of Europe's top strikers, on a par with Etoo, Villa, Torres, Rooney or other players who one may deem 'special'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,570 ✭✭✭mormank


    Berbatov
    as a pool fan torres is the man and i think keane will compliment him far better than berbatov would. berbatov wouldnt like being second fiddle to torres i reckon. And he would be second fiddle!! no question


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,213 ✭✭✭✭therecklessone


    Keane is a professional.
    Berbatov is bordering on the Anelka.

    Keane has shown petulance on the pitch after being substituted (including one occasion when he was wearing the captain's armband), and when he lost his place to Jermaine Defoe a number of years ago there were rumblings of him demanding his place back or a move away from the club.

    Berbatov is a sulky so-and-so but lets not beatify Keane just yet.
    I dont get the fuss about Berbatov. He's lazy, he's selfish and he has no pace.

    I'm sorry, but that is utter tosh.

    In 81 starts and 10 sub appearances for Spurs, he has contributed:

    46 goals
    27 assists

    In all competitions.

    In the preceding 3 seasons at Leverkusen he averaged better than a goal every 2 games in the Bundesliega.

    He also shared the task of scoring goals with Keane last season, and with Keane and Defoe (22 and 18 goals respectively) the year before.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    No comparison between the two.
    Like comparing a pigs ear to silk
    Berbatov is a far superior player in every aspect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,046 ✭✭✭eZe^


    Barca have too many strikers similar to Keane, Bojan is 17 and is the same mould, will be a better version of him in a couple of years. We need a good target man, therefore I'd pick Berbatov. (note- I do think Keane is a good player though)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    Ngog is better than them both.

    end thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,951 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    I wonder do people really think before posting opinions on players, I mean Berbatov is a very different style player than Keane in many ways, he likes to take the ball into him with his back to Goal then link up with other team mates but he can also take on a player and use his great ball control to create goals.

    I mean all the stats I have seen talk about Goals which fair enough is the main aim of a striker but most strikers don't create their goals on their own they need be assisted i.e. why players get awarded assists.

    So instead of just looking at goals which if you take the last two seasons in the Premier League only Berba has scored 27 and Keane has scored 26 so not much in it there.

    But if you look at assists for the Premier League over the last 2 seasons:
    Berba has 22
    Keane has 10
    Now thats a big difference and shows the other aspect of Berbatov's game, it would be interesting if anyone had facts on how many of those Assists for Berba resulted in Goals for Keane, I think Keane is excellent but I think he needs a certain type of striking partner to be at his best and I think Torres might just be a bit too simalar to Keane.

    Whereas I think Berba and Rooney would be a lethal combination.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,568 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I dont get the fuss about Berbatov. He's lazy, he's selfish and he has no pace.

    Well he is a smoker. :D

    Honestly how can he be selfish with 27 assists in 2 years?

    As for having no pace, he is hardly the slowest and is impossible at times to knock off the ball I don't think I have seen a player of his intelligence since Bergkamp in his prime. Some of his finishes are special.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    Berbatov is quality but over-rated.

    Keane is quality but under-rated.

    I'd probably rate Berba a little higher over all, but Keane is more a Liverpool type of player and more the type of player that we need.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    bump


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,277 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Berbatov is quality but over-rated.

    Keane is quality but under-rated.

    I'd probably rate Berba a little higher over all, but Keane is more a Liverpool type of player and more the type of player that we need.

    Berbatov is over-rated, yeah - but Keane being under-rated? Nah, not for me he isn't. People's general opinion of Keane is fair - he is a good player who can be great on occasion. He's not world class or anything though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    so wat makes Berba world class, but not Keane? I rate Berba higher, dont get me wrong....but 10m higher? at 31m?

    Would take Keane at 20m everyday of the week. and i dont like Keane. never have.


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