Fake Sales (RyanAir)

Boggles · 17-07-2008 11:21am #1

This is not an exlusive pop at Ryanair so I don't want the "what do you expect for 40 quid" brigade marching in with their O'Leary autobiographys in paw.

Was asked the other night to check on a couple of flights for a friend who is not on the net. Flights were for a couple of months time and were working out at €65 euro approx all in, except for the cc charge.

Checked the same flights today and it seems that Ryanair have a special at the moment giving €20 euro off each leg of the flight, the only thing is they have quadroupled the price of each leg of the flight. So ineffect the flights are turning out dearer than they did a couple of nights ago. I'm aware the price of the flights could have went up through natural causes, e.g. availabilty, etc. But the increase perfectly coincided with the sale.

It would be like Dunnes selling a jumper for for 30 quid one day, the next having a 50% discount on the jumper but now the original price is €90, I know the likes of bricks and mortar stores have to have the item on sale at the original price for 30 days.

It is a very sneaky practice which I thought was illegal, maybe I'm wrong, but is there a body that monitors online "sales" for this dishonest profiteering?

Discuss.

rgfuller · 17-07-2008 11:50am

Not wanting to defend ryanair but...
How do you know that the pricing you got a couple of days ago was also discounted in a different sale.

dahamsta · 17-07-2008 12:18pm

Boggles wrote: »

I don't want the "what do you expect for 40 quid" brigade marching in with their O'Leary autobiographys in paw.

Christ they'd drive you demented, wouldn't they?

adam

axer · 17-07-2008 12:50pm

Boggles wrote: »

Checked the same flights today and it seems that Ryanair have a special at the moment giving €20 euro off each leg of the flight, the only thing is they have quadroupled the price of each leg of the flight. So ineffect the flights are turning out dearer than they did a couple of nights ago. I'm aware the price of the flights could have went up through natural causes, e.g. availabilty, etc. But the increase perfectly coincided with the sale.

would the fact that there was a €20 euro off sale not be a reason why the prices went up quicker? i.e. more people booking to get the €20 euro off? It would make perfect sense that the increase would coincide with the sale then.

Boggles wrote: »

It would be like Dunnes selling a jumper for for 30 quid one day, the next having a 50% discount on the jumper but now the original price is €90, I know the likes of bricks and mortar stores have to have the item on sale at the original price for 30 days.

That is a *completely* different industry. Do dunnes sell jumpers for 1c and increase the price according to the number of jumpers sold to come to a total price for that batch of jumpers? I think not. Completely different.

Boggles wrote: »

It is a very sneaky practice which I thought was illegal, maybe I'm wrong, but is there a body that monitors online "sales" for this dishonest profiteering?

I don't think it is illegal since their prices go up like that anyway and they are giving the €20 euro off.

Boggles · 17-07-2008 12:59pm

axer wrote: »

would the fact that there was a €20 euro off sale not be a reason why the prices went up quicker? i.e. more people booking to get the €20 euro off? It would make perfect sense that the increase would coincide with the sale then.

The price was cheaper without the 20 euro discount.

axer wrote: »

That is a *completely* different industry. Do dunnes sell jumpers for 1c and increase the price according to the number of jumpers sold to come to a total price for that batch of jumpers? I think not. Completely different.

It was an example of dishonest practice.

axer wrote: »

I don't think it is illegal since their prices go up like that anyway and they are giving the €20 euro off.

Duping consumers is not illegal? It may be impossible to prove, but I'm sure it would be considered unfair practice.

dahamsta wrote: »

Christ they'd drive you demented, wouldn't they?

adam

Yes, Yes they would.

axer · 17-07-2008 1:07pm

Boggles wrote: »

The price was cheaper without the 20 euro discount.

I think you totally missed my point.

Boggles wrote: »

It was an example of dishonest practice.

How do you know it is dishonest? Flight prices go up all the time and are linked to demand. A sale would increase demand thus one would expect the sale to increase prices quickly since the tickets will be selling quicker. It sounds like you are bitter the price went up and you had the opportunity to purchase earlier for cheaper but didn't. That's not Ryanair's fault.

Boggles wrote: »

Duping consumers is not illegal? It may be impossible to prove, but I'm sure it would be considered unfair practice.

You are assuming they are duping consumers here completely without proof.

seamus · 17-07-2008 1:07pm

Boggles wrote: »

Duping consumers is not illegal? It may be impossible to prove, but I'm sure it would be considered unfair practice.

If and only if their prices didn't maintain fluidity during the sale.

That is, the sale offer may be "€20 off", but the actual cost of the flight still changes in line with demand and availability.

I would imagine the rules are different. A supermarket, when putting an item on sale, has to ensure that the item has been on sale at the original price for at least thirty days, and has to have been at that price in the last thirty days (numbers may be wrong). An airline couldn't possibly satisfy the first requirement.

One way around this is to offer a "discount". So a particular item isn't "on sale", but the retailer is offering a discount at the till for all customers who purchase it.

If you pressed Ryanair, they would probably say that customers are being given a discount off their booking, it's not a "sale".

Boggles · 17-07-2008 1:11pm

axer wrote: »

I think you totally missed my point.

How do you know it is dishonest? Flight prices go up all the time and are linked to demand. A sale would increase demand.

You are assuming they are duping consumers here completely without proof.

I didn't miss any point.

The original cost of the flight without any special offers or discounts was €9.99. If they applied the 20 euro discount to this flight, it would have had to have been even for one purchase -€10.01.

So Ryanair would have to pay you €10.01 to book the flight.

Has anyone ever actually booked a flight where Ryanair has given you money?

axer wrote: »

How do you know it is dishonest? Flight prices go up all the time and are linked to demand. A sale would increase demand thus one would expect the sale to increase prices quickly since the tickets will be selling quicker. It sounds like you are bitter the price went up and you had the opportunity to purchase earlier for cheaper but didn't. That's not Ryanair's fault.

No lower prices would increase demand. The prices were cheaper before the "sale". As for me being bitter, reread my first post, it is not my flight, not my money, so I couldn't give 2 hoots about the price. I brought up the practice which appears to be dishonest.

axer · 17-07-2008 1:35pm

Boggles wrote: »

Has anyone ever actually booked a flight where Ryanair has given you money?

Im sure they had terms and conditions where this would not happen i.e. that if the price was under 20 euro then either the discount did not apply or that the price would not fall below zero.

Boggles wrote: »

No lower prices would increase demand. The prices were cheaper before the "sale". As for me being bitter, reread my first post, it is not my flight, not my money, so I couldn't give 2 hoots about the price. I brought up the practice which appears to be dishonest.

I'm sure people some people got the flights at a cheaper price maybe just after the discount started thus the price rose. Just because you didn't doesn't mean that Ryanair are out to scam you it just means you left it too long and people who booked before you got the cheaper price.

I don't see the dishonesty.

Boggles · 17-07-2008 1:40pm

axer wrote: »

Im sure they had terms and conditions where this would not happen i.e. that if the price was under 20 euro then either the discount did not apply or that the price would not fall below zero.

I'm sure people some people got the flights at a cheaper price maybe just after the discount started thus the price rose. Just because you didn't doesn't mean that Ryanair are out to scam you it just means you left it too long and people who booked before you got the cheaper price.

I don't see the dishonesty.

You seem pretty sure :rolleyes:, you have no idea and are assuming. Granted I have no proof, but saying that I have just as much proof as you that the practice doesn't happen.

axer wrote: »

I don't see the dishonesty.

Please read the first line of my original post again. Thank you.

Boggles wrote: »

This is not an exlusive pop at Ryanair so I don't want the "what do you expect for 40 quid" brigade marching in with their O'Leary autobiographys in paw.

If we can steer it back to my original question.

It is a very sneaky practice which I thought was illegal, maybe I'm wrong, but is there a body that monitors online "sales" for this dishonest profiteering?

axer · 17-07-2008 1:56pm

Boggles wrote: »

If we can steer it back to my original question.

It is a very sneaky practice which I thought was illegal, maybe I'm wrong, but is there a body that monitors online "sales" for this dishonest profiteering?

Sorry, Ryanair - those bastards - I hope they rot in hell!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad: Better?

btw I did answer your question and gave you a very logical and reasonable explanation as to why the prices probably increased (as did 2 others in this thread). It you want the exact reasons then you will have to contact Ryanair since they are the only ones that can be 100% sure.

Here is some more for you

http://www.nca.ie/eng/Business_Zone/...ct_Prices.html

'Reduced' prices in the sales

If you have stock in the sales with reduced prices, you have to have had the products on offer at the advertised original price for a reasonable period before the price was reduced.
For example, you are not allowed to have a label or sign on a product saying "reduced by 30 per cent" if this is the first time you are selling this particular product.

From the Consumer Protection Act 2007
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/b...2007/a1907.pdf

Chapter 2
Misleading Commercial Practices
42.—(1) A trader shall not engage in a misleading commercial
practice.
(2) Without prejudice to the amendments of the Hallmarking Act
1981 made by section 99, sections 43 to 46 specify the various circumstances
in which a commercial practice is misleading.
43.—(1) A commercial practice is misleading if it includes the provision
of false information in relation to any matter set out in subsection
(3) and that information would be likely to cause the average
consumer to make a transactional decision that the average consumer
would not otherwise make.
(2) A commercial practice is misleading if it would be likely to
cause the average consumer to be deceived or misled in relation to
any matter set out in subsection (3) and to make a transactional
decision that the average consumer would not otherwise make.
(3) The following matters are set out for the purposes of subsections
(1) and (2):
(a) the existence or nature of a product;
(b) the main characteristics of a product, including, without
limitation, any of the following:
(i) its geographical origin or commercial origin;
(ii) its availability, including, without limitation, its availability
at a particular time or place or at a particular
price;
.....
.....
(6) Without limiting subsection (5)—
(a) if the commercial practice involves a representation or
creates an impression (whether in advertising, marketing
or otherwise) that a product was previously offered at a
different price or at a particular price, consideration shall
be given to whether the product was previously offered
openly and in good faith at that price and at the same
place for a reasonable period of time before the representation
was made, and
(b) if the commercial practice involves a representation or
creates an impression (whether in advertising, marketing
or otherwise) that a product is being offered by a trader
at or below a price recommended by the manufacturer,
producer or supplier of the product (other than the
trader), consideration shall be given to whether that
recommended price was one recommended in good faith
by that manufacturer, producer or supplier.

You can complain to the NCA if you want but since no law was broken they cannot do anything.

Boggles · 17-07-2008 2:03pm

axer wrote: »

btw I did answer your question

Okay thanks, no need for you to reply on the thread any more than, bye.

MOH · 18-07-2008 10:21am

Boggles wrote: »

Was asked the other night to check on a couple of flights for a friend who is not on the net. Flights were for a couple of months time and were working out at €65 euro approx all in, except for the cc charge.

Checked the same flights today and it seems that Ryanair have a special at the moment giving €20 euro off each leg of the flight, the only thing is they have quadroupled the price of each leg of the flight. So ineffect the flights are turning out dearer than they did a couple of nights ago. I'm aware the price of the flights could have went up through natural causes, e.g. availabilty, etc. But the increase perfectly coincided with the sale.

Boggles wrote: »

I didn't miss any point.

The original cost of the flight without any special offers or discounts was €9.99.

So the original cost was 9.99 + taxes etc. of about 55?

And the "sale" cost was about 40 euro - 20 euro sale + same taxes etc for a total of 75?

Could still just be bad luck, maybe the 9.99 ones you were looking at were the last in that tranche and someone else got them, next set were 40 euro.

If they applied the 20 euro discount to this flight, it would have had to have been even for one purchase -€10.01.

So Ryanair would have to pay you €10.01 to book the flight.

Has anyone ever actually booked a flight where Ryanair has given you money?

You don't honestly expect to be paid €10 to fly? I'm sure that would be covered in the T+Cs.
How exactly would that work? They'd put through a charge of -€10 to your credit card? Do c/card suppliers even accept negative payments?

Cabaal · 18-07-2008 10:35am

Boggles wrote: »

Okay thanks, no need for you to reply on the thread any more than, bye.

no need to be smart with other users in fairness, the suer can reply all they want

Boggles · 18-07-2008 10:47am

Cabaal wrote: »

no need to be smart with other users in fairness, the suer can reply all they want

I stated in the original post that I did not want this thread turning into a for and against Ryanair debate, it is what usually happens and the user that post was aimed at was steering the thread in that direction. The question I put forward was quite clear, I was protecting my thread from becoming farcial.

I apologise for the backseat modding, something we are both guilty of now it seems, eh?

Cabaal · 18-07-2008 10:54am

Boggles wrote: »

I stated in the original post that I did not want this thread turning into a for and against Ryanair debate, it is what usually happens and the user that post was aimed at was steering the thread in that direction. The question I put forward was quite clear, I was protecting my thread from becoming farcial.

I apologise for the backseat modding, something we are both guilty of now it seems, eh?

If you have an issue with how a user is posting them report them and let a mod decided, while I am not a mod of this forum I felt I certainly had something more positive to add then your remarks

Boggles · 18-07-2008 10:56am

Cabaal wrote: »

If you have an issue with how a user is posting them report them and let a mod decided,

Good advice, why don't you take it.

Boggles · 18-07-2008 11:01am

MOH wrote: »

So the original cost was 9.99 + taxes etc. of about 55?

And the "sale" cost was about 40 euro - 20 euro sale + same taxes etc for a total of 75?

Could still just be bad luck, maybe the 9.99 ones you were looking at were the last in that tranche and someone else got them, next set were 40 euro.

You don't honestly expect to be paid €10 to fly? I'm sure that would be covered in the T+Cs.
How exactly would that work? They'd put through a charge of -€10 to your credit card? Do c/card suppliers even accept negative payments?

Could have just went up due to normal behaviour as I have said. Of course Ryanair will never pay you to take a flight, that was jest.

Can you firmly discount the practice of "Fake Sales" especially when it comes to airlines and fluctuating prices, there is no concrete proof that it happens but reversely there is no proof that it doesnt, I was speaking from my experience this week, and unless someone can inform me that this practice is monitored, than I will remain suspicious and not naive.

Fake Sales (RyanAir)

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