HH - What do you do???

Ste05 · 03-10-2005 1:30am #1

JudgeAndJury is at seat 1 with $31.25.
storytller is at seat 3 with $8.
STopher is at seat 4 with $27.95.
Noneck is at seat 5 with $8.60.
rize the bet is at seat 6 with $28.15.
Ste05 is at seat 7 with $33.15.
Daderad is at seat 8 with $18.55.
AcesWild55 is at seat 9 with $29.20.
The button is at seat 8.

AcesWild55 posts the small blind of $.10.
JudgeAndJury posts the big blind of $.25.

Ste05: Jd Ad

Pre-flop:

storytller raises to $.65.
STopher folds.
Noneck calls.
rize the bet calls.
Ste05 calls.
Daderad calls.
AcesWild55 folds.
JudgeAndJury calls.

Flop (board: 6d Qd 5s): $4 Pot

JudgeAndJury checks.
storytller bets $4.
Noneck calls.
rize the bet folds.
Ste05 calls.
Daderad goes all-in for $17.90.
JudgeAndJury folds.
storytller goes all-in for $7.35.
Noneck goes all-in for $7.95.
Ste05?????? ($13.90 to call, pot currently $29.10)

Should I have played anything differently here, and any suggestions as to what I should do?????

Hectorjelly · 03-10-2005 1:52am

Call!

jtsuited · 03-10-2005 1:56am

it's an easy call. Why wouldn't you?

Ste05 · 03-10-2005 1:59am

Oh good, I did without even thinking, but I wasn't sure whether or not it was the right play to make or not,

jtsuited · 03-10-2005 2:19am

I'm presuming you understand why you had to call? Pot odds etc..

If not, not to worry, there's a million bajillion sites out there that will explain how to calculate your odds of hitting and pot odds and all that mumbo-jumbo that incidentally i'm starting to notice more and more players i come across in the fitz don't seem to know. but now's not the time to start my bad beat ranting!!!! Feckin gamblers!!!!!

Hectorjelly · 03-10-2005 2:38am

jtsuited wrote:

I'm presuming you understand why you had to call? Pot odds etc..

If not, not to worry, there's a million bajillion sites out there that will explain how to calculate your odds of hitting and pot odds and all that mumbo-jumbo that incidentally i'm starting to notice more and more players i come across in the fitz don't seem to know. but now's not the time to start my bad beat ranting!!!! Feckin gamblers!!!!!

I have lost 3 big pots today in MTTS against JTs and I hold you personally responsible. Please transfer me some money

Ste05 · 03-10-2005 10:08am

To be honest pot odds is the exact reason I asked this question, I was only getting between 2 and 3:1 on the call, so pot odds actually say to fold, so I don't really see your point here.....
Had I worked it out better at the time (I did as you did here, estimated it in my head quickly and thought there was enough to call) I still think I would have called (added bonus of busting 3 players

), but I thought it was a good example of when you have marginal pot odds, do you make the call????

ntlbell · 03-10-2005 10:21am

So what happened?

charlesanto · 03-10-2005 10:30am

mmm

Waylander · 03-10-2005 10:31am

Pot odds say call. You have a nut flush draw which gives you 9 outs, a 36% chance of hitting, which means you will hit one in three times. If you are getting better then 2-1 you are proced in. You have to pay €13 into a pot of €29, with no risk of further cost so it should be a call.

jimbling · 03-10-2005 10:40am

Ste05 wrote:

To be honest pot odds is the exact reason I asked this question, I was only getting between 2 and 3:1 on the call, so pot odds actually say to fold, so I don't really see your point here.....
Had I worked it out better at the time (I did as you did here, estimated it in my head quickly and thought there was enough to call) I still think I would have called (added bonus of busting 3 players ), but I thought it was a good example of when you have marginal pot odds, do you make the call????

the mistake your making here Ste05 is that you are working on the assumption that the odds on you making the flush are 4-1 on. And this would be the right odds when dealing with each card been dealt. But the thing is there is two cards to come, and you will not have to put any more money in the pot. Therefore you are getting 2-1 on odds instead.... making it a must call.

Ste05 · 03-10-2005 10:42am

that's why I made the call, but I'd be fairly sure all my 9 outs aren't all live.... exactly what cards do you think my 3 opponents have???

Waylander · 03-10-2005 10:45am

That does not matter. You only discount cards that you know are out of the deck. That is the only certain knowledge you have.

jtsuited · 03-10-2005 12:07pm

Hectorjelly wrote:

I have lost 3 big pots today in MTTS against JTs and I hold you personally responsible. Please transfer me some money

yup it'll do that. Cardplayer magazine had a full article dedicated to JTsuited a while ago, and apparently it's actually ahead of AKo. And it's my initials. Interesting.

but Ste, you easily had the odds to call, and has been said here, you made the right decision. If you lose fair enough, but it's a +Ev move and as long as you keep making them you'll be a profitable player.

Lafortezza · 03-10-2005 1:41pm

Ste05, your Ace outs might be good as well.

kincsem · 03-10-2005 1:52pm

29.10 in the pot; 13.90 to call; odds 2.09:1
Odds of filling a flush 1.86:1
You are getting more than 1.86 (marginally) so call.

You might get lucky - hit a straight, or Ace and win against a pair of queens.

ArmaniJeanss · 03-10-2005 2:12pm

My first post, so apologies if I'm speaking rubbish.
But I think this might be a fold.
With 3 players all-in, I think we have to take into account the possible hands we are up against, and see if it is still a +EV call.
I would say its about 75% likely that we are up against a non-nut flush draw, probably one of the shorter stacks. This reduces our flush outs from 9 to about 7.5 (2x75% = 1.5).
Also unless all the other players are muppets, then someone must have a decent hand already, a set or 2 pair. This means our flush outs are compromised further as some of our diamonds will almost certainly create a FullHouse. Effectively we probably have on average less than 7 outs at this stage.
Its negligible that an A will be any good to us.
Generally I'd agree with the earlier advice to ignore cards we cant see when calculating odds/outs : I just think this case is different with 3 all-ins,
Regards,
AJs.

P.S. Great board.

Ste05 · 03-10-2005 2:27pm

There's no way hitting an A will win me this hand, most players are bad at this level but not that bad

Here's what happened:

Turn (board: 6d Qd 5s 6c):

(no action in this round)

River (board: 6d Qd 5s 6c 8c):

(no action in this round)

Showdown:

Daderad shows 5h 5c.
Daderad has 5h 5c 6d 5s 6c: full house, fives full of sixes.
storytller shows Ks Qs.
storytller has Ks Qs 6d Qd 6c: two pair, queens and sixes.
Noneck shows 9h 9s.
Noneck has 9h 9s 6d Qd 6c: two pair, nines and sixes.
Ste05 mucks cards.
(Ste05 has Jd Ad.)

If you're on a nut flush draw against trips in such a situation you are only going to hit (at best) 27% of the time.... just another little odds calculation I've added into my onboard odds calculator :rolleyes: ....
I know you should ignore that possibility but I think when it's so obvious someone has trips like here, it has to be considered, I'll still always call in a similar situation even if the odds aren't really there though (he might not have trips)....

Ste05 · 03-10-2005 2:31pm

Finally a read on the actual hand and not just looking at the Nut Flush draw....
This is what I was thinking too. Looking back I don't think that it was as clear cut as I thought at the time and has been said above. Worked better than I could have hoped (None of my d's gone) but just didn't hit..... :mad: :mad:

EDIT: Reply to Armanijeanss

Re-EDIT: P.S. Armanijeanss isn't me - just thought it looked a bit dodgy, his first post and all.......

HH - What do you do???

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