FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

KMPT · 08-10-2020 12:14pm

The current format is a waste of time for law grads. If the Law Society is really serious about "integrity" it should be multiple choice. Law grads leave out most of the topics and non law grads also follow suit. This is why many of us fail. It's not because we are not smart, but mainly because we didn't cover the syllabus. So where does that leave "integrity of the exams" that the Law Society speaks of? A money making scheme that has students forking out a lot of money for prep classes and for some essentially "resitting" their college law exams.

I think many people would prefer multiple choice, as most people feel comfortable with the idea of it. Although it's not easier in terms of preparation at least what you remember will be somewhere on the paper. "My topic didn't come up" would no longer be an issue. According to the Law Society the FE1s exist because they won't be teaching you law. You're expected to know it before you get there. Yet they are fully aware we skip topics a lot. Where is the "integrity of the exams" they speak of when most candidates didn't cover the law they are supposed to know?

TCPIP · 08-10-2020 12:27pm

KMPT wrote: »

The current format is a waste of time for law grads. If the Law Society is really serious about "integrity" it should be multiple choice. Law grads leave out most of the topics and non law grads also follow suit. This is why many of us fail. It's not because we are not smart, but mainly because we didn't cover the syllabus. So where does that leave "integrity of the exams" that the Law Society speaks of? A money making scheme that has students forking out a lot of money for prep classes and for some essentially "resitting" their college law exams.

I think many people would prefer multiple choice, as most people feel comfortable with the idea of it. Although it's not easier in terms of preparation at least what you remember will be somewhere on the paper. "My topic didn't come up" would no longer be an issue. According to the Law Society the FE1s exist because they won't be teaching you law. You're expected to know it before you get there. Yet they are fully aware we skip topics a lot. Where is the "integrity of the exams" they speak of when most candidates didn't cover the law they are supposed to know?

Write a multiple choice question for succession law. Just to illustrate to us how it would work.

KMPT · 08-10-2020 12:44pm

No need to be snarky. MCQs are not necessarily A, B, or C. It can be to choose two answers. Neither do they all have one correct answer. Many MCQs at third level requires the best possible answer. So for let's say the constitution of a will. The choices could be quite similar with one incorrect element or it could list a series of correct answers with the best possible answer focusing on the most important tenets.

Don't get frustrated by my original post. It would appear dissenting opinions are not welcomed in this forum without others getting touchy. I've seen that a few pages back. But don't worry. The Law Society might read our posts but they never act on them, otherwise we wouldn't be in this position now and they would have been prepared for online exams when we suggested it months ago.

Aoibhin511 · 08-10-2020 12:45pm

TCPIP wrote: »

Write a multiple choice question for succession law. Just to illustrate to us how it would work.

When must a fully secret trust be communicated?

a) Anytime before the will is created.

b) At the same time as the will.

c) Anytime before the testator's death.

d) Anytime before the will is read.

Wonderstruck · 08-10-2020 12:47pm

LawExams 2020 wrote: »

Thank you. I genuinely wasn’t trying to be condescending.

Having a rant, a good cry, being royally pis*ed off and more, all totally natural. For me though, it’s equally as important to be able to pick myself up, dust myself off, and crack on with things.

It’s very easy to slide into a negative, overly stressed place, but to go too far into that kind of upset - I don’t think that benefits anyone.

I’ve wasted a few days this week worrying about the future. Trying now to focus as much as I can and put everything else out of my mind. I’ll be kicking myself if I lose out on too much study time.

I don't blame you at all and it's totally bs as most people have work and can't just book leave at very short notice!

I am just fortunate with timing that I'm done really I missed a sitting myself because of problems with a former manager (who basically was trying to run me out of the job) and I was believably stressed & upset. It's all cool when you cant control your next move it is the most stressful place to me

dobby896 · 08-10-2020 1:33pm

Aoibhin511 wrote: »

When must a fully secret trust be communicated?

a) Anytime before the will is created.

b) At the same time as the will.

c) Anytime before the testator's death.

d) Anytime before the will is read.

C

Does this mean I pass my FE1s? haha

TCPIP · 08-10-2020 1:34pm

KMPT wrote: »

No need to be snarky. MCQs are not necessarily A, B, or C. It can be to choose two answers. Neither do they all have one correct answer. Many MCQs at third level requires the best possible answer. So for let's say the constitution of a will. The choices could be quite similar with one incorrect element or it could list a series of correct answers with the best possible answer focusing on the most important tenets.

Don't get frustrated by my original post. It would appear dissenting opinions are not welcomed in this forum without others getting touchy. I've seen that a few pages back. But don't worry. The Law Society might read our posts but they never act on them, otherwise we wouldn't be in this position now and they would have been prepared for online exams when we suggested it months ago.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be snarky. It's more our form of legal system does not lend itself to binary answers. So short of a question being "Pick which three elements comprise a valid will" or "The Indoor management rule is... A, B, or C" it's not really functional when we have to consider a number of possible outcomes. Just imagine a criminal exam with MCQs...

Hazel774 · 08-10-2020 2:22pm

Guys I'm sorry I really don't want to drag out what's been said on here this morning as I appreciate that it is annoying when this thread gets off topic with arguments and we're all entitled to have different opinions.
I just really feel the need to say that there is absolutely no shame at all in needing therapy or being emotional over the stress these exams have caused. I myself have actually ended up in the doctors a few times over the last number of months due to the stress that the handling of these exams has caused me, and I don't feel in any way embarrassed about that.

I was very surprised to see comments in 2020 accusing people of losing the run of themselves for needing therapy or crying with stress. Everyone handles things differently and it's important to seek help if you need it.

ScatmanWhack · 08-10-2020 2:30pm

Have just been wondering if anybody has been told what 'early next week' even means? There's been a big discussion on how people have handled this period but my own opinion is that I feel like we've been absolutely jerked around. The stress, irrational or not, has been sending me up the wall. Seriously desperate for any information - even information on when we'll get information.

Hazel774 · 08-10-2020 2:32pm

ScatmanWhack wrote: »

Have just been wondering if anybody has been told what 'early next week' even means? There's been a big discussion on how people have handled this period but my own opinion is that I feel like we've been absolutely jerked around. The stress, irrational or not, has been sending me up the wall. Seriously desperate for any information - even information on when we'll get information.

I don't think the Law Society even know tbh

Edit: someone did post previously after being in contact with LS and they were told that we might not even find out next week if the LS don't know

SKLaw · 08-10-2020 2:53pm

DAC Beachcroft has their trainee solicitor programme applications open until 27 November for anyone on here looking for a TC like me

Vegetarian2017 · 08-10-2020 3:19pm

If the LS can manage to hold exams online you would hope they would at least post in early course to state if the exams are to go ahead (due to the disruption) they will hold them later in November. It at least takes the pressure off candidates and allow us to wait patiently till next week. I note many are working and have jobs to answer to not to mention some of us have children which we need to organise childcare. Ridiculous.

Lawlaw12 · 08-10-2020 3:31pm

Has anyone received a refund yet after paying for Tort/EU in October and then having passed them in the August results?

sh_owens · 08-10-2020 3:32pm

The Law society takes about 3/4 months to process refunds

Lawlaw12 · 08-10-2020 3:35pm

sh_owens wrote: »

The Law society takes about 3/4 months to process refunds

Please tell me you're not serious?

I rang and asked if I could pay after results and was told I couldn't. I genuinely can't think of any reason why it would take so long to process??

Imagine any other business taking that long to give you a refund lol

LawExams 2020 · 08-10-2020 3:37pm

Wonderstruck wrote: »

I don't blame you at all and it's totally bs as most people have work and can't just book leave at very short notice!

I am just fortunate with timing that I'm done really I missed a sitting myself because of problems with a former manager (who basically was trying to run me out of the job) and I was believably stressed & upset. It's all cool when you cant control your next move it is the most stressful place to me

That’s rough about your former manager! Great that you got there in the end though. One of the more enjoyable aspects of this forum is people sharing their joy at getting all 8. Great motivator too! Hope the training contract goes well for you.

LawExams 2020 · 08-10-2020 3:38pm

Hazel774 wrote: »

Guys I'm sorry I really don't want to drag out what's been said on here this morning as I appreciate that it is annoying when this thread gets off topic with arguments and we're all entitled to have different opinions.
I just really feel the need to say that there is absolutely no shame at all in needing therapy or being emotional over the stress these exams have caused. I myself have actually ended up in the doctors a few times over the last number of months due to the stress that the handling of these exams has caused me, and I don't feel in any way embarrassed about that.

I was very surprised to see comments in 2020 accusing people of losing the run of themselves for needing therapy or crying with stress. Everyone handles things differently and it's important to seek help if you need it.

Well said, Hazel. No shame at all. No one ever said there was.

lawgirl23 · 08-10-2020 3:40pm

Lawlaw12 wrote: »

Has anyone received a refund yet after paying for Tort/EU in October and then having passed them in the August results?

No. Sent three emails and only got a reply to the third one, saying my request was forwarded to the team the week before.

FE1student560 · 08-10-2020 3:43pm

Hey guys. In have accepted two TC offers as one of the firms requires me to have all my exams done by December and I'm a bit nervous I won't have them done. Does anyone know how strictly firms apply that rule? Also what's the latest you should inform a firm you don't intend to take an offer after you've accepted it?

IgoPAP · 08-10-2020 3:45pm

FE1student560 wrote: »

Hey guys. In have accepted two TC offers as one of the firms requires me to have all my exams done by December and I'm a bit nervous I won't have them done. Does anyone know how strictly firms apply that rule? Also what's the latest you should inform a firm you don't intend to take an offer after you've accepted it?

They apply the rule pretty strictly. However, I think most firms would be willing make exceptions this year as the delay to exams is not your fault at all.

And you should inform the firm as soon as possible. I think it reflects pretty badly if you got half a year with the offer already in place and decide rescind it.

shaunadennyham · 08-10-2020 3:51pm

FE1student560 wrote: »

Hey guys. In have accepted two TC offers as one of the firms requires me to have all my exams done by December and I'm a bit nervous I won't have them done. Does anyone know how strictly firms apply that rule? Also what's the latest you should inform a firm you don't intend to take an offer after you've accepted it?

Well look on the bright side - we may not get another sitting by December!!

channing90 · 08-10-2020 3:54pm

FE1student560 wrote: »

Hey guys. In have accepted two TC offers as one of the firms requires me to have all my exams done by December and I'm a bit nervous I won't have them done. Does anyone know how strictly firms apply that rule? Also what's the latest you should inform a firm you don't intend to take an offer after you've accepted it?

Do you mind me asking when you got offered the Tc, interested to know if anyone has been successful on getting one during the last 6 months and where they are based?

Hazel774 · 08-10-2020 3:55pm

LawExams 2020 wrote: »

Well said, Hazel. No shame at all. No one ever said there was.

ehh...

LawExams 2020 wrote: »

Emma, I never said people couldn’t complain? I said people are losing the run of themselves a bit.

I agree entirely that it’s stressful, and sure vent away, but when I read that people are crying in the toilets and needing therapy, well it’s alarming to read that people are coming so undone. People will be making themselves sick from stress, and I don’t think anyone wants to see that happen.

Look I'm not going to say any more on this as it's going off topic, and perhaps you didn't mean any offence by your comments, but they can be interpreted as shaming people telling them that they're 'losing the run of themselves'.

Hazel774 · 08-10-2020 3:59pm

FE1student560 wrote: »

Hey guys. In have accepted two TC offers as one of the firms requires me to have all my exams done by December and I'm a bit nervous I won't have them done. Does anyone know how strictly firms apply that rule? Also what's the latest you should inform a firm you don't intend to take an offer after you've accepted it?

I'm in the same boat, I'm required to have them done by December too... I only have one left, so the only way I won't have them done is if the next sitting isn't organised promptly. I'm not sure whether to contact my firm or not... has anyone contacted their firms about the delays in rescheduling the sitting?

mayolaw · 08-10-2020 4:00pm

channing90 wrote: »

Do you mind me asking when you got offered the Tc, interested to know if anyone has been successful on getting one during the last 6 months and where they are based?

I recently (yesterday) got offered a pre-training contract while i do my fe-1s and its in my contract they'll put me on the December 2021 hybrid ppc. Over the last six months i've applied to any and every legal graduate job (not all necessarily traineeships) had about 5-6 interviews since then and was rejected until now. I've been told in most my interviews that they are getting more CV's than ever before.

LawExams 2020 · 08-10-2020 4:05pm

Hazel774 wrote: »

ehh...

Look I'm not going to say any more on this as it's going off topic, and perhaps you didn't mean any offence by your comments, but they can be interpreted as shaming people telling them that they're 'losing the run of themselves'.

I never mentioned the word shame though, other people felt the need to misrepresent what I said.

My comment on people losing the run of themselves was wholly unrelated to my comment about it being alarming that people were crying in work and needing therapy due to the stress.

The first comment - yeah, some people were losing the run of themselves a bit.

The second comment - it was genuine alarm and concern that people are being so stressed by this whole mess. The process should be straightforward enough that it doesn’t result in the current situation.

FE1student560 · 08-10-2020 4:10pm

channing90 wrote: »

Do you mind me asking when you got offered the Tc, interested to know if anyone has been successful on getting one during the last 6 months and where they are based?

I got offered them in October 2018 so quite a while ago! I have four left to do because I spent a year working abroad

shaunadennyham · 08-10-2020 4:14pm

Hazel774 wrote: »

I'm in the same boat, I'm required to have them done by December too... I only have one left, so the only way I won't have them done is if the next sitting isn't organised promptly. I'm not sure whether to contact my firm or not... has anyone contacted their firms about the delays in rescheduling the sitting?

I have kept my firm in the loop and advise you to do the same. Law society haven’t been keeping firms updated and they may not look kindly on you telling them after the fact without warning that exams were delayed or cancelled

Hazel774 · 08-10-2020 4:35pm

shaunadennyham wrote: »

I have kept my firm in the loop and advise you to do the same. Law society haven’t been keeping firms updated and they may not look kindly on you telling them after the fact without warning that exams were delayed or cancelled

Thanks for that

maggie95 · 08-10-2020 5:44pm

Got a reply from my local TD:

"Many thanks for your email. I can totally understand your sense of deep frustration and anger. From my discussions with the Law Society, I understand that their position has changed from a few weeks ago and that they are now considering online assessments where they had ruled this out previously. I do not yet know the detail of what they are planning, but I will write to them and ask that they make their position clear for FE1 students as soon as possible.

All the best in your preparation. I remember this stage of the process very well. It will all be fully worth it in the end."

So it seems they are only considering the online assessment. Will update if I hear more.

IgoPAP · 08-10-2020 5:52pm

maggie95 wrote: »

Got a reply from my local TD:

"Many thanks for your email. I can totally understand your sense of deep frustration and anger. From my discussions with the Law Society, I understand that their position has changed from a few weeks ago and that they are now considering online assessments where they had ruled this out previously. I do not yet know the detail of what they are planning, but I will write to them and ask that they make their position clear for FE1 students as soon as possible.

All the best in your preparation. I remember this stage of the process very well. It will all be fully worth it in the end."

So it seems they are only considering the online assessment. Will update if I hear more.

What it means is they haven't yet found anyone to host remote exams.

3 weeks out from the exam itself. First a tragedy. Then just a farce.

sarahlawless · 08-10-2020 5:58pm

maggie95 wrote: »

Got a reply from my local TD:

"Many thanks for your email. I can totally understand your sense of deep frustration and anger. From my discussions with the Law Society, I understand that their position has changed from a few weeks ago and that they are now considering online assessments where they had ruled this out previously. I do not yet know the detail of what they are planning, but I will write to them and ask that they make their position clear for FE1 students as soon as possible.

All the best in your preparation. I remember this stage of the process very well. It will all be fully worth it in the end."

So it seems they are only considering the online assessment. Will update if I hear more.

That is actually such a sound response.

Aoibhin511 · 08-10-2020 6:30pm

Does anyone have a note on Shatter v Guerin (2019) SC? My manual doesn't actually explain what was held in relation to privilege and justiciability.
TIA

orlaghs · 08-10-2020 6:33pm

maggie95 wrote: »

Got a reply from my local TD:

"Many thanks for your email. I can totally understand your sense of deep frustration and anger. From my discussions with the Law Society, I understand that their position has changed from a few weeks ago and that they are now considering online assessments where they had ruled this out previously. I do not yet know the detail of what they are planning, but I will write to them and ask that they make their position clear for FE1 students as soon as possible.

All the best in your preparation. I remember this stage of the process very well. It will all be fully worth it in the end."

So it seems they are only considering the online assessment. Will update if I hear more.

The reason they can only 'consider' online is mostly because of the exam companies. I actually work for one of the main online exam providers and they need at least 2 months' notice to prepare for online exams. Difficult to see how LS will navigate around this if I'm honest but who knows!

Sound reply from your TD - nice to have someone actually give a useful response. We can only continue to prepare as though the exams will go ahead in November but it's proving to be v difficult to find the motivation!!

carldelaney95 · 08-10-2020 7:30pm

Hi Everyone,

I was wondering if anyone had a copy of the Criminal Law Exam Paper for March 2020?

Thanks,

Carl Delaney

dobby896 · 08-10-2020 8:34pm

orlaghs wrote: »

but it's proving to be v difficult to find the motivation!!

I honestly might get this tattooed on me I say it that much these days lol

Debarramike137 · 08-10-2020 8:59pm

hi guys,

can anybody tell me please, the min to cover in criminal!? thanks a lot

shaunadennyham · 08-10-2020 9:20pm

Debarramike137 wrote: »

hi guys,

can anybody tell me please, the min to cover in criminal!? thanks a lot

Cover as much as you can - he tends to mix topics. Omissions came up in March so probably won’t come up again. Sexual offences always appears in some form, public order offences, property offences, murder and manslaughter very frequent too.

Debarramike137 · 08-10-2020 9:28pm

shaunadennyham wrote: »

Cover as much as you can - he tends to mix topics. Omissions came up in March so probably won’t come up again. Sexual offences always appears in some form, public order offences, property offences, murder and manslaughter very frequent too.

Thank you so much!!

shaunadennyham · 08-10-2020 9:33pm

Debarramike137 wrote: »

Thank you so much!!

Indica of a crime also possible as a q given the pandemic and confusion about regulatory and criminal offences !

IgoPAP · 08-10-2020 9:41pm

What are the chances that if they can't find a suitable company to facilitate remote sittings (and they still haven't yet) , and that Dublin doesn't go down to Level 2 anytime soon (which is most likely), that they end up cancelling the exams altogether until the Spring sittings?

08-10-2020 9:45pm

IgoPAP wrote: »

What are the chances that if they can't find a suitable company to facilitate remote sittings (and they still haven't yet) , and that Dublin doesn't go down to Level 2 anytime soon (which is most likely), that they end up cancelling the exams altogether until the Spring sittings?

Oh god..nightmare scenario
Who even knows what will be going on in March - not much has improved since last March!

I would hope they did staggered online sittings before they cancel altogether.. but who knows with the LS!

dobby896 · 08-10-2020 10:01pm

IgoPAP wrote: »

What are the chances that if they can't find a suitable company to facilitate remote sittings (and they still haven't yet) , and that Dublin doesn't go down to Level 2 anytime soon (which is most likely), that they end up cancelling the exams altogether until the Spring sittings?

There would be complete uproar if they cancelled especially when people have 2021 contracts and are aiming to get them done in 2 sittings.

The only way they could offset it is by running 3 sittings in 2021. However, I can't see them cancelling this sitting altogether because, as Abba once said "money, money, money".

shaunadennyham · 08-10-2020 10:03pm

IgoPAP wrote: »

What are the chances that if they can't find a suitable company to facilitate remote sittings (and they still haven't yet) , and that Dublin doesn't go down to Level 2 anytime soon (which is most likely), that they end up cancelling the exams altogether until the Spring sittings?

The way I see it they’ll probably do a sitting online in early December or cancel it completely and possibly run 3 sittings in 2021.

Bear in mind the Law society control the whole training process. They could well push out the commencement of blackhall 2021 to facilitate extra sittings of the fe1s. Makes no difference to the firms really as long as they have concrete dates they can plan rotations etc accordingly

dobby896 · 08-10-2020 10:11pm

shaunadennyham wrote: »

Bear in mind the Law society control the whole training process. They could well push out the commencement of blackhall 2021 to facilitate extra sittings of the fe1s. Makes no difference to the firms really as long as they have concrete dates they can plan rotations etc accordingly

The joys of a monopoly!

Vegetarian2017 · 09-10-2020 9:11am

I would say they might wait till the country is level 2, hopefully the end of November or perhaps January and still hold the March sitting.

This is of course if they dont go ahead with online sitting. I highly doubt that would be in place by November.

For those applying to hybrid I really wouldnt worry they will accomodate candidates in this circumstance and as a poster mentioned above they have the ability to push out blackhall 2021 if needs be.

I am sure it will all work out, yes it is stressful not knowing but I am confident whatever option they choose it will not hold those back for hybrid etc.

Candidates waiting to start training contracts just need to contact their firm to let them know, this is circumstances outside of your control I am sure (I would hope) the firm will understand and also be accomodating.

I am putting the books down till there is a confirmed date but that is my own choice to destress and what suits me. There is little chance it will go ahead the first week with all of the disruption this has caused. So all try not stress too much we will all get there in the end.

fe1student2803 · 09-10-2020 9:51am

Does anyone who has a training contract lined up have any tips for applications? Finding them so daunting

WesternC123 · 09-10-2020 10:29am

Do people think we will hear any kind of update from them by this evening? It's so difficult heading into another weekend of study not knowing if the exams will be in 3 weeks or 3 months...

Aoibhin511 · 09-10-2020 10:32am

fe1student2803 wrote: »

Does anyone who has a training contract lined up have any tips for applications? Finding them so daunting

There are generally 2 types of applications - the CV and cover letter ones and the fill in the online form ones. I got an interview in every place that I applied with a CV and none of the online form ones, maybe a complete fluke or maybe I was completely missing the buzzwords the forms wanted. But I'll stick to advice on the CV type.
CV: Try to fit it all on one page, Include your linkedin and you can fill out more detail about your work experience there. Include your expected graduating grade if you haven't graduated already and any society or club roles you took on in college. If you have no work experience think about hobbies/sports/societies and the skills they have given you, list the skills you learned with the activities. If you've ever had a bizarre hobby or played a less well known sport, but it on your CV, it was a great conversation starter.
Cover Letter: the two questions that must be answered are 1. why you want them and 2. why they want you. So do your research on them and be willing to talk yourself up. Have everyone you know proofread it, mistakes will not look good.
Then just cross your fingers and hope for some interviews.
Honestly the interview that went best for me was the one I was most relaxed and most myself in because I never imagined I would get that firm so I was "just doing the interview for practice".
Group interviews are daunting, but keep smiling, interject occasionally with "mary makes a really good point be I think..." or "I completely agree with Sam because..." keep it positive but don't talk too much, let everyone have their turn.
Do your research again before your individual interview, make sure you have a question to ask them at the end when they give you the opportunity.

Best of luck!

fe1student2803 · 09-10-2020 10:44am

Aoibhin511 wrote: »

There are generally 2 types of applications - the CV and cover letter ones and the fill in the online form ones. I got an interview in every place that I applied with a CV and none of the online form ones, maybe a complete fluke or maybe I was completely missing the buzzwords the forms wanted. But I'll stick to advice on the CV type.
CV: Try to fit it all on one page, Include your linkedin and you can fill out more detail about your work experience there. Include your expected graduating grade if you haven't graduated already and any society or club roles you took on in college. If you have no work experience think about hobbies/sports/societies and the skills they have given you, list the skills you learned with the activities. If you've ever had a bizarre hobby or played a less well known sport, but it on your CV, it was a great conversation starter.
Cover Letter: the two questions that must be answered are 1. why you want them and 2. why they want you. So do your research on them and be willing to talk yourself up. Have everyone you know proofread it, mistakes will not look good.
Then just cross your fingers and hope for some interviews.
Honestly the interview that went best for me was the one I was most relaxed and most myself in because I never imagined I would get that firm so I was "just doing the interview for practice".
Group interviews are daunting, but keep smiling, interject occasionally with "mary makes a really good point be I think..." or "I completely agree with Sam because..." keep it positive but don't talk too much, let everyone have their turn.
Do your research again before your individual interview, make sure you have a question to ask them at the end when they give you the opportunity.

Best of luck!

Thank you so much Aoibhin! I really appreciate it

FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

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