Defund RTE

VinLieger · 22-07-2020 7:41pm

ronivek wrote: »

I've seen a few comments on the broadcasting of 'foreign' programming and complaining that there should be much more spent on Irish shows.

In 2018 RTE spent:
€202.7 million on indigenous Irish programming across its channels.

€22.8 million on overseas programming across its channels.

So even if you removed all overseas programming entirely from RTE as a whole they would only be able to boost spending on indigenous Irish programming by approximately 11%.

And even then that boost would be contingent upon many assumptions such as commercial revenue remaining the same even if the number of programs broadcast was significantly reduced and the number of repeats or low-cost Irish programs increased proportionally.

The problem is how RTE misspends its money, an example is the well known studio practices that basically amount to requiring 3 people to screw in a light bulb.

listermint · 22-07-2020 7:48pm

Can we defund the OP and the likes of the OP.

Too much spare time on their hands watching YouTube loopers and Facebook likes to grifters. Probably on the tax payers dime.

satguy · 22-07-2020 7:52pm

ronivek wrote: »

€202.7 million on indigenous Irish programming across its channels.

€202.7 million on what, doing their houses up while the cameras are there, and Paying their big stars to book into nice hotels, and have them film how nice the breakfast was.

It's a joke,, a big joke on us ..

Invidious · 22-07-2020 7:55pm

end of the road wrote: »

it's not an rte tax but a tax for having a television which happens to go to rte.

Don't be obtuse. The licence is the main funding mechanism for RTE, who are the main beneficiaries of its revenue.

there isn't anything regressive about it as such

According to the Cambridge English Dictionary, a tax is regressive when poor people pay a higher percentage of their income than wealthier people.

Someone earning €15,000 a year pays the same TV licence fee as someone earning €250,000 a year, even though €160 is a much smaller percentage of the latter person's income. Therefore the tax is regressive.

satguy · 22-07-2020 8:06pm

The whole Day on RTE 2 is all repeats.

https://entertainment.ie/tv/all-channels/?time=all-day&date=23-07-2020

We should not have to put up with this, we need our politicians to have our backs here, not RTE's ..

BonnieSituation · 22-07-2020 8:07pm

satguy wrote: »

The whole Day on RTE 2 is all repeats.

https://entertainment.ie/tv/all-channels/?time=all-day&date=23-07-2020

We should not have to put up with this, we need our politicians to have our backs here, not RTE's ..

Bring it up with your politicians.

Superfoods · 22-07-2020 8:09pm

VinLieger wrote: »

This entire post is just a ****show of wrong information. The setup costs nothing like that when done DIY of which theres plenty of guides available for.

A standard aerial in Ireland will absolutely support freeview it just cannot support saorview and freeview at the same time.

Right back at ya bud

https://www.freetv.ie/how-to-combine-saorview-and-freeview-on-the-same-digital-receiver/

This is what I posted

A standard aerial in Ireland will not support Freeview according to the website I have checked. Do you have information to contradict that .

You found the information to contradict it, thank you bud

Superfoods · 22-07-2020 8:11pm

Invidious wrote: »

You're objecting to people having to pay a one-time installation fee of circa €200 to get Saorview & Freeview, while simultaneously arguing that they should pay €160 each and every year to support RTE?

I didn't object to anyone installing Saorview & Freeview.

I only made the point that 160 euro is good value for money for the TV license.

elperello · 22-07-2020 8:25pm

Invidious wrote: »

Don't be obtuse. The licence is the main funding mechanism for RTE, who are the main beneficiaries of its revenue.

According to the Cambridge English Dictionary, a tax is regressive when poor people pay a higher percentage of their income than wealthier people.

Someone earning €15,000 a year pays the same TV licence fee as someone earning €250,000 a year, even though €160 is a much smaller percentage of the latter person's income. Therefore the tax is regressive.

It's not a tax it's a licence.

You can avoid it by not participating in the activity requiring the licence.

Same arguments apply to dog licence, driving licence etc.

How about we fund Public Service Broadcasting directly from the exchequer?

That would mean no licence and everyone pays a little. No collection costs, no evasion and no enforcement expense.

Invidious · 22-07-2020 8:28pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Like what? I don't particularly like classical music, but I see its merits, so I would be aghast if we got rid of orchestras.

How do you decide what's culturally appropriate? Thankfully we have organisations and experts in cultural fields that get to do that on our behalf and reactionary sorts like yourself are far away from the decision-making process.

I agree that there's cultural value in classical music. But do you think "experts in cultural fields" would see similar cultural value in Winning Streak, Room to Improve, and Dancing with the Stars? Somehow I doubt it.

You seem to oddly equate a lack of popularity with cultural significance.

Sometimes, cultural significance and popularity don't go hand-in-hand. For instance, some of our best poets earn only a tiny amount of money from the books they publish. Even at the best of times, people are hardly camping outside the National Concert Hall for tickets to the symphony. In such a case, if we want to keep certain art forms alive, there's a case to be made for state support. However, if something is both popular and culturally significant, it should be able to stand on its own two feet without needing state subsidies.

Would you get rid of TG4?

As it exists at present, TG4 spends a substantial amount of time broadcasting American westerns and repeats of shows like Gilmore Girls and Murder She Wrote. There isn't enough demand for Irish-language programming to justify an entirely separate station. So Irish-language programming can be rolled into RTE.

Arthur Daley · 22-07-2020 8:30pm

We used to need public broadcasters. They did a good job once. The majority where very happy to support them.

They have become cess pools of cultural marxism over the last decade and only brought this ire on themselves. RTE website is a particular joke shop.

cyllyn28 · 22-07-2020 8:32pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There has never been a greater need for a national public service broadcaster. Reform RTE, don't remove it.

It used to be the broadcasting wing of the Catholic Church...Archbishop McQuaid had a "bat phone" in RTE, very literally a direct line, when McQuaid didn't like something, the phone would ring.

Defund Conservatism
Defund RTE
Defund AIB
Defund ESB

Defund Waterford Crystal
Defund the Farmers

Defund Irish Conservatism

Invidious · 22-07-2020 8:32pm

Superfoods wrote: »

I only made the point that 160 euro is good value for money for the TV license.

Some people rarely or never watch RTE. For such people, the licence is hardly "good value for money."

Former Former · 22-07-2020 8:37pm

It's mad. Depending on who you ask, RTE is either a hotbed of Marxist malcontents or a mouthpiece for the conservative status quo. How these coexist I'm not sure but here we are.

The ironic reality is that the loudest critics of RTE are the people who need RTE the most.

Invidious · 22-07-2020 8:38pm

As I type this, the taxpayer-funded LyricFM is playing "The National Anthem" by Radiohead. Aren't they supposed to be a classical music station?

Arthur Daley · 22-07-2020 8:39pm

Anyone who thinks RTE's editorial stance is conservative these days, would really need to get out a hell of a lot more.

landofthetree · 22-07-2020 8:45pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There has never been a greater need for a national public service broadcaster. Reform RTE, don't remove it.

Its losing viewers all the time.

Its a dinosaur.

Its player is beyond a joke. If their is a match on the player illegal streams are more reliable.

elperello · 22-07-2020 8:47pm

Invidious wrote: »

As I type this, the taxpayer-funded LyricFM is playing "The National Anthem" by Radiohead. Aren't they supposed to be a classical music station?

"RTÉ lyric fm is a music station with a classical bias whilst also offering the listener a vast and eclectic array of music from all periods, continents, genres, styles ..."

That's The Mystery Train with John Kelly you are listening to.

If you don't get it that's ok too but it is generally well regarded.

super_furry · 22-07-2020 8:47pm

Invidious wrote: »

As I type this, the taxpayer-funded LyricFM is playing "The National Anthem" by Radiohead. Aren't they supposed to be a classical music station?

Let me guess. Radiohead are part of a far-left cabal and RTE playing their music is a progressive coup just waiting to happen.

I'm guessing you'd much prefer a strict diet of Wagner.

Former Former · 22-07-2020 8:49pm

Invidious wrote: »

As I type this, the taxpayer-funded LyricFM is playing "The National Anthem" by Radiohead. Aren't they supposed to be a classical music station?

No.

cyllyn28 · 22-07-2020 8:54pm

Former Former wrote: »

It's mad. Depending on who you ask, RTE is either a hotbed of Marxist malcontents or a mouthpiece for the conservative status quo. How these coexist I'm not sure but here we are.

The ironic reality is that the loudest critics of RTE are the people who need RTE the most.

Conservatism + Marxism = ?

elperello · 22-07-2020 9:01pm

cyllyn28 wrote: »

Conservatism + Marxism = ?

= Boards?

Invidious · 22-07-2020 9:01pm

elperello wrote: »

"RTÉ lyric fm is a music station with a classical bias whilst also offering the listener a vast and eclectic array of music from all periods, continents, genres, styles ..."

That's The Mystery Train with John Kelly you are listening to.

If you don't get it that's ok too but it is generally well regarded.

Radiohead are a mainstream rock band, routinely played on commercial radio stations around the world. Why are they on the taxpayer-funded LyricFM as well?

Annasopra · 22-07-2020 9:01pm

keano_afc wrote: »

Every time I turn on a panel discussion on RTE I see a representative from People Before Profit, so the "dont give a platform to loons and cranks" is a moot argument really.

They're not conspiracy cranks at all though

Pa ElGrande · 22-07-2020 9:05pm

Invidious wrote: »

Someone earning €15,000 a year pays the same TV licence fee as someone earning €250,000 a year, even though €160 is a much smaller percentage of the latter person's income. Therefore the tax is regressive.

Someone earning €250K per annum is paying a much higher tax rate and in addition is contributing to the overall welfare package that RTE receives (€50 million) outside the direct RTE TV tax from the government subvention. Jobs that pay ~250K p/a are not common and tend to come with longer work hours, meaning less time to watch RTE content so potentially the person earning those figures is getting much less value in terms of hours of content provided from RTE that the person earning €15 K.

RTE is a government sponsored enterprise that acts as media distribution platform (Broadcast) and content provider, some of that content takes the form of advertisements on behalf of commercial and state interests. The viewers and listeners of RTEs broadcasts are its product, it must deliver eyes and ears to its advertisers and the political class to justify continuity of its revenue streams, bailouts and support its debts.

The organisation must do this competing against new competition sources such as social media that did not exist for decades after it was founded when it had a greater domestic market share. To survive RTE need to update their terms of service for the 21st century but they are bound by a model devised in the 1930s.

elperello · 22-07-2020 9:06pm

Invidious wrote: »

Radiohead are a mainstream rock band, routinely played on commercial radio stations around the world. Why are they on the taxpayer-funded LyricFM as well?

I honestly don't know. I was watching Coronation Street on VM 1.

If it's really bothering you send an email to John Kelly.

You do know that Radio is free at point of use?

You don't have to pay a penny in tax or licence to enjoy it in all it's diversity.

Kivaro · 22-07-2020 9:12pm

elperello wrote: »

"RTÉ lyric fm is a music station with a classical bias whilst also offering the listener a vast and eclectic array of music from all periods, continents, genres, styles ..."

That's The Mystery Train with John Kelly you are listening to.

If you don't get it that's ok too but it is generally well regarded.

I'd say that the value I get from RTE is about €30 per year from my TV Tax of €160. John Kelly is part of that value, plus Late Night on RTE Radio 1, and the weekly radio shows before 7 am weekdays and 8 am on the weekends.

However when the GroupThink crew comes on the radio at 7 am, then the liberal indoctrination begins. Nothing but Direct Provision, (only) Black Lives Matters, Traveller issues, Homelessness, and their number 1 stick to beat us with is how racist we all are to the every increasing numbers of Africans in this country. (If we are so racist, why are they still flying into Dublin in their droves seeking asylum from far flung places of ............... western Europe?)

Then there is the argument for direct taxation to solve RTE woes. This is exactly what RTE wants, and it would be an unmitigated disaster for the tax payer. Giving RTE an open chequebook through direct taxation is an appalling concept. Let them reform, or let them fail. They are not too big to fail ............. even though they think they are.

If a comet hit RTE in Donnybrook, I doubt that there would be many in the country that would shed a tear. They deserve all the ire that they receive.

Invidious · 22-07-2020 9:12pm

elperello wrote: »

I honestly don't know. I was watching Coronation Street on VM 1.

If it's really bothering you send an email to John Kelly.

Let me get this straight.

People argue that we need to fund RTE because otherwise we wouldn't have public-sector broadcasting and classical music on the radio.

But when RTE 1 is showing Neighbours, RTE 2 is showing Top Gear, and LyricFM is playing Radiohead, nobody is all that bothered because these things are popular and we like them.

Is that pretty much it?

Wanderer78 · 22-07-2020 9:14pm

Neoliberalism rocks!

super_furry · 22-07-2020 9:18pm

Invidious wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

People argue that we need to fund RTE because otherwise we wouldn't have public-sector broadcasting and classical music on the radio.

But when RTE 1 is showing Neighbours, RTE 2 is showing Top Gear, and LyricFM is playing Radiohead, nobody is all that bothered because these things are popular and we like them.

Is that pretty much it?

No.

People are whinging that RTE isn't a far-right propaganda outlet.

SEPT 23 1989 · 22-07-2020 9:18pm

They should be closed permanently because of the agendas they constantly push by whoever is pulling their strings now

it used to be the church holding the reigns

Today it is more subtle but far more dangerous

elperello · 22-07-2020 9:19pm

Invidious wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

People argue that we need to fund RTE because otherwise we wouldn't have public-sector broadcasting and classical music on the radio.

But when RTE 1 is showing Neighbours, RTE 2 is showing Top Gear, and LyricFM is playing Radiohead, nobody is all that bothered because these things are popular and we like them.

Is that pretty much it?

No it's not pretty much it.

Public Service Broadcasting can deliver a wide spectrum of entertainment, news and current affairs.

You are the one who made a big deal out of John Kelly playing Radiohead.

Superfoods · 22-07-2020 9:21pm

Invidious wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

People argue that we need to fund RTE because otherwise we wouldn't have public-sector broadcasting and classical music on the radio.

But when RTE 1 is showing Neighbours, RTE 2 is showing Top Gear, and LyricFM is playing Radiohead, nobody is all that bothered because these things are popular and we like them.

Is that pretty much it?

No

BonnieSituation · 22-07-2020 9:21pm

Kivaro wrote: »

I'd say that the value I get from RTE is about €30 per year from my TV Tax of €160. John Kelly is part of that value, plus Late Night on RTE Radio 1, and the weekly radio shows before 7 am weekdays and 8 am on the weekends.

However when the GroupThink crew comes on the radio at 7 am, then the liberal indoctrination begins. Nothing but Direct Provision, (only) Black Lives Matters, Traveller issues, Homelessness, and their number 1 stick to beat us with is how racist we all are to the every increasing numbers of Africans in this country. (If we are so racist, why are they still flying into Dublin in their droves seeking asylum from far flung places of ............... western Europe?)

Then there is the argument for direct taxation to solve RTE woes. This is exactly what RTE wants, and it would be an unmitigated disaster for the tax payer. Giving RTE an open chequebook through direct taxation is an appalling concept. Let them reform, or let them fail. They are not too big to fail ............. even though they think they are.

If a comet hit RTE in Donnybrook, I doubt that there would be many in the country that would shed a tear. They deserve all the ire that they receive.

There's very little you can do with this sort of post. I'm oot.

Wanderer78 · 22-07-2020 9:22pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote:

Today it is more subtle but far more dangerous

If you think governments are bad, you should see what the plutocratic elements of society are up to

Invidious · 22-07-2020 9:24pm

elperello wrote: »

No it's not pretty much it.

Public Service Broadcasting can deliver a wide spectrum of entertainment, news and current affairs.

You are the one who made a big deal out of John Kelly playing Radiohead.

I can listen to Radiohead on any number of commercial radio stations. So what's the point of playing Radiohead as part of so-called "public service broadcasting"? Is it just a case of same content, different funding model?

Superfoods · 22-07-2020 9:30pm

Invidious wrote: »

I can listen to Radiohead on any number of commercial radio stations. So what's the point of playing Radiohead as part of so-called "public service broadcasting"? Is it just a case of same content, different funding model?

Im not sure your point, are you saying the lyric should not be allowed play music that other radio stations might choose to play?

elperello · 22-07-2020 9:33pm

Invidious wrote: »

I can listen to Radiohead on any number of commercial radio stations. So what's the point of playing Radiohead as part of so-called "public service broadcasting"? Is it just a case of same content, different funding model?

We are to a certain extent going around in circles here.

Of course you can listen to Radiohead on multiple platforms.

You were listening to Mystery Train so it's fair to assume that you like the vibe.

A presenter like John Kelly puts a lot of thought into a playlist so why not just take a leap in the dark and trust that he knows what he's doing?

cyllyn28 · 22-07-2020 9:35pm

super_furry wrote: »

No.

People are whinging that RTE isn't a far-right propaganda outlet.

It's a soft-far-right propaganda machine...

The priests and nuns may be gone......but now their kind work in state agencies, same old conservative tricks, same old conservative people.

Wanderer78 · 22-07-2020 9:36pm

cyllyn28 wrote:

It's a soft-far-right propaganda machine...

Irish media is more left than anything

cyllyn28 · 22-07-2020 9:37pm

elperello wrote: »

A presenter like John Kelly puts a lot of thought into a playlist so why not just take a leap in the dark and trust that he knows what he's doing?

His wife made him take the job at RTE....To qualify for a mortgage, and for the pension. John Kelly went down to the crossroads, and sold his soul to the Civil Service.

elperello · 22-07-2020 9:40pm

cyllyn28 wrote: »

His wife made him take the job at RTE....To qualify for a mortgage, and for the pension. John Kelly went down to the crossroads, and sold his soul to the Civil Service.

Well I never a broadcaster who has bills to pay.

I guess we all have feet of clay.

cyllyn28 · 22-07-2020 9:53pm

elperello wrote: »

Well I never a broadcaster who has bills to pay.

I guess we all have feet of clay.

Yeah....but he ended up with conservative middle-class "people"..."managing" him...The kind of people whose only "skills", being conservatism, middle-classness, the clan connections that got them a job in RTE, the conservatism that propelled them through the managerial ranks...Basically, the kind of people you'd find "running" Waterford Crystal, in its' state subsidized heyday............ He sold his soul to the conservative store...

runawaybishop · 22-07-2020 10:13pm

Invidious wrote: »

I'd say that something has cultural value if it enriches us as a nation.

Just because a show has a large indigenous audience doesn't mean it has cultural value. What exactly is the cultural value of Winning Streak, Dancing with the Stars, or Room to Improve?

I don't buy the rationale that every household must pay a regressive tax of €160 a year to keep Irish-based production companies in business. If these people are as highly skilled as you indicate, surely they can manage to make a living under their own steam?

Rte are supposed to get funding from advertising also, these programs have a lot of viewers and so command better advertising revenue.

cyllyn28 · 22-07-2020 10:25pm

♫....I sold my soul....to the....conservative store....♫

The once chatty....fall mysteriously silent....

♫....I sold my soul....to the....conservative store....♫

Brothers and Sisters....Living and dying, under the Neo-Christian-Brothers...or Neo-Mercy-Convent-Nuns regime....Is not something, a prison, impossible to escape from, that the conservatives, through their capture of state organizations, has brain washed you into believing...that has broken you.... That has yoked a plow to your neck like a farm animal.

Do you know why conservative "managers" love farmers so much...Because they see themselves as the conservative farmers of men....

Invidious · 22-07-2020 10:32pm

elperello wrote: »

You were listening to Mystery Train so it's fair to assume that you like the vibe.

I turned on LyricFM hoping to listen to some classical music, or at least something I wouldn't hear on TodayFM. Instead they were playing ... Radiohead.

A presenter like John Kelly puts a lot of thought into a playlist so why not just take a leap in the dark and trust that he knows what he's doing?

How much thought does it require? Playing one of the biggest bands in the world on the radio is something any garden-variety DJ can do.

Sean.3516 · 22-07-2020 10:40pm

Agreed. RTÉ should be sold off on the private market or dissolved.

It’s absurd that we’re using tax revenue to maintain a television station. Fair enough, it made sense back in the sixties when there were no Irish stations and no prospect of stations being formed with private capital. Irish broadcasting may have needed a government sponsored kickstart. But in 2020 there are so many television stations available to Irish viewers (including Irish run stations) that don’t require taxpayer funding that RTÉ has lost it’s reason for existing. Before RTÉ the only stations were British ones available to people on the east coast.

Also the TV licence is an immoral tax since less and less people are watching RTÉ. People are essentially being charged for a service even if they don’t use it.

elperello · 22-07-2020 10:41pm

Invidious wrote: »

I turned on LyricFM hoping to listen to some classical music, or at least something I wouldn't hear on TodayFM. Instead they were playing ... Radiohead.

How much thought does it require? Playing one of the biggest bands in the world on the radio is something any garden-variety DJ can do.

Playing random songs is one thing a master like Kelly compiling a play list for a two hour programme is a different beast.

Fair play, like I said earlier if you don't get it that's ok too.

I guess I'll have to let it go, you are just a disappointed listener.

cyllyn28 · 22-07-2020 10:41pm

Invidious wrote: »

How much thought does it require? Playing one of the biggest bands in the world on the radio is something any garden-variety DJ can do.

I won't get into the full story...but when he first started with RTE...A "manager" was sitting him down...And "teaching" the young whipper-snapper....by forcing him to insert things on the play list.....And John would have to introduce these tracks....I knew what was going on behind the "scenes"....And John would sound like he was about to break down in tears...His "teacher"...Forcing him to recite script he'd written....

Ye have to teach a young lad...doncha....They have fancy ideas..but the old ways are the best..the conservative ways are the best....Ye have to teach the young lads...That's what good "management" is all about.

Sand · 22-07-2020 10:42pm

GT89 wrote: »

I see in the UK there is a campaign to defund the BBC why not do the same for RTE. The constant left wing bias annoys the hell out of me and the over paid talentless presenters there has been clear bias on display when it comes to things like Brexit, Trump and Coronavirus no voice from the other side. Turn it into a subscription based service like Sky or Virgin and if it dosen't make money close it down

https://www.defundbbc.uk/tv-press-radio/

If a left wing bias irritates you, removing public funding isnt the right approach. 'The left' as you call it has huge financial support from the richest individuals and corporations in the world. Should RTE or the BBC be defunded by ending public subsidy, the shortfall will simply be made up by the private sector instead.

The left wing bias will get worse not better, as once they are privately owned and funded, there is no reason for them to even loosely entertain notions of balance or objectivity. The better option is to retain public ownership and then to demand reform in the public interest.

Defund RTE

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