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Surface finish for car park/drive

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  • 05-07-2020 10:33pm
    #1
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,050 ✭✭✭✭


    I have a large space (200+ sq. m) that I need to get resurfaced. I don't want to use tarmac as it is working out too expensive, also since it is impermeable I would have to provide drainage.

    I gather there is some sort of stone chip/dust that can be applied, wetted and whacked down that will give a good hardwearing surface. I can't establish what it is called, I believe it is a bunch of numbers 803 or 805 or something of that.

    Can anyone clarify what it is I should be looking for, or are there any better solutions?

    Thanks.


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    #2
    garv123
    Registered Users Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭garv123


    looksee wrote: »
    I have a large space (200+ sq. m) that I need to get resurfaced. I don't want to use tarmac as it is working out too expensive, also since it is impermeable I would have to provide drainage.

    I gather there is some sort of stone chip/dust that can be applied, wetted and whacked down that will give a good hardwearing surface. I can't establish what it is called, I believe it is a bunch of numbers 803 or 805 or something of that.

    Can anyone clarify what it is I should be looking for, or are there any better solutions?

    Thanks.

    804 stone, just did out the back myself. Make sure its the good blue colour, or even grey, stay away from the brown stuff, absolute crap. mostly clay and you draw muck indoors easily with it.


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    #3
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,616 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Just finished mine there two weeks back 400 sq meters.

    It was an old driveway probably surfaced in the early 80s last so poor condition.

    804 put down rented a walk behind roller . You can use weed control underneath the 804 they're are various opinions on the use or not off it. Unused it on the two entrances and was very successful they're the best solid part of the drive tbh.

    Then put your finish stone on top colour of your choosing. Best use 14 or 20mm stone works best for driving on.

    Make sure phone around local quarries for pricing on the stone , bigger brands and main Street suppliers will be eye watering prices.


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    #4
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,050 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Thank you! That's great.

    The surface is solid and level, but it had largish pebbles on it which were a nightmare, so most of them are gone, but still a thin layer, then the job was very badly finished with a very thin layer of some loose gravelly stuff which does not bed down at all and is walking everywhere.

    What depth of 804 would you suggest? And should I remove the loose stuff that is there already?

    I was not aware of using a finishing stone - would it bed down, do you roller before or after or both?


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    #5
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    looksee wrote: »
    I was not aware of using a finishing stone
    Wacked 804 will look like a building site. The finishing stone is to make it look nice.

    Does compacted 804 permeate well, i.e. without additional drainage installed? I'm not convinced. When I've used it under a slab it looked very solid.


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    #6
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,050 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Lumen wrote: »
    Wacked 804 will look like a building site. The finishing stone is to make it look nice.

    Does compacted 804 permeate well, i.e. without additional drainage installed? I'm not convinced. When I've used it under a slab it looked very solid.

    The existing surface is very solid under the messy top layer but the land is extremely free draining and even in the heaviest rain I have not seen any evidence of puddles. The whole site is on a slope, the carpark is part of the area that was levelled for the house, maybe there is enough slope on it, though you can't see it - I will put a level on it and check.


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    #7
    Shaunoc
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭Shaunoc


    I have 2 local quarries. One does greyish 804 which we used abundantly during house build to tidy up site and on driveway. Compacted quite well, drainage an issue in just one spot. Recently got 804 from the other quarry on recommdation from people in paving game. Dark blue colouring. Looks damn well after a shower. Have that now around house. Compacts well, looks good. Will suffice till we dress it over in a year or two. Not all 804 is the same


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    #8
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    804 would be rough enough, there is also binding grit also known as decomposed granite which is much finer and you would place a lair of it over the 804 for a nicer finish.
    No experience myself just something I'm looking into.


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    #9
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,616 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    as above not all 804 drains the same, it should have a decent mix of small grain with medium stones in it.

    Mine drains absolutely excellent, especially with the heavy downpours we have had last few weeks.


    What i would say is roll everything, roll the original driveway, then roll the 804 then roll the decorative finish stone. The decorative should ideally be a very thin layer Inch is probably best depending on stone size. Anymore and it will shift.


    The roller i rented was probably the most important tool. Next to the digger for easy filling of the barrows.

    You area probably 2-3days for a good job to be done with 2 bodies. More bodies get it done quicker.


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    #10
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,050 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Thank you for all your replies, that was very helpful. Are there any thoughts on any alternative finish? Would I get any sort of stable surface with any other sort of gravel for example? The original surface was pebbles - quite large, around an inch largest measurement, and they were totally hopeless, shifting around and travelling down the concrete drive slope to the road.


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    #11
    dok_golf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭dok_golf


    I used my van to compact my 804. I have to spray it for weeds twice a year but its still in reasonable condition 8 years on


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    #12
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,616 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    looksee wrote: »
    Thank you for all your replies, that was very helpful. Are there any thoughts on any alternative finish? Would I get any sort of stable surface with any other sort of gravel for example? The original surface was pebbles - quite large, around an inch largest measurement, and they were totally hopeless, shifting around and travelling down the concrete drive slope to the road.

    Something non pebbles. If it was rounded it will shift.

    Has to be compacted though.

    But it will shift eventually it's the nature of the beast.


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    #13
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    looksee wrote: »
    Thank you for all your replies, that was very helpful. Are there any thoughts on any alternative finish? Would I get any sort of stable surface with any other sort of gravel for example? The original surface was pebbles - quite large, around an inch largest measurement, and they were totally hopeless, shifting around and travelling down the concrete drive slope to the road.

    14-16 mm limestone chips bed in the best i find, the 20mm shifts too easily imo


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    #14
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,826 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    804 doesn't need any finish on top, spread it out evenly with a fall the way you want the water to run off and either whack it, roll it or drive a track machine or heavy vehicle over it.

    The colour of it will depend on the quarry it came from. Once you compress it well at the start then after constant driving over it and a few showers it will harden.

    It gets more solid over time and will eventually be like concrete. Buy direct from a quarry if at all possible, I live about 10 miles from a quarry and can get it delivered for about 10 euro a ton. You'd nearly want another mortgage buying it from the likes of garden centers.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #15
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,050 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I had just about figured out that the smaller limestone chips might be good - I know I don't want pebbles, I have had them on garden beds and they look good, provided you don't walk on them, so driving is definitely not an option.

    I think still 804 might be the way to go if I can get some decent looking stuff.

    I think I will have to have a look round the local quarries and see what they offer.


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    #16
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,616 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    804 doesn't need any finish on top, spread it out evenly with a fall the way you want the water to run off and either whack it, roll it or drive a track machine or heavy vehicle over it.

    The colour of it will depend on the quarry it came from. Once you compress it well at the start then after constant driving over it and a few showers it will harden.

    It gets more solid over time and will eventually be like concrete. Buy direct from a quarry if at all possible, I live about 10 miles from a quarry and can get it delivered for about 10 euro a ton. You'd nearly want another mortgage buying it from the likes of garden centers.


    It looks **** though.



    Don't use 804 as a finish. It looks unfinished and cheapens your house.


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    #17
    Shaunoc
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭Shaunoc


    dok_golf wrote: »
    I used my van to compact my 804. I have to spray it for weeds twice a year but its still in reasonable condition 8 years on
    :D did likewise with a car once
    great practice with mirrors reversing up and down, up and down, up and...


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    #18
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    listermint wrote: »
    It looks **** though.



    Don't use 804 as a finish. It looks unfinished and cheapens your house.

    What might look shìt to you might be fine for someone else


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    #19
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    IMO 804 is not stuff that you want on show. I have seen driveways that have no finishing stone or paving on top and they all look a bit half done.

    It's pretty dirty too when it gets really wet in my experience, but maybe that's just if it's not laid right.


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    #20
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    It may be worth considering a reduced fines aggregate rather than 804, for better drainage and a cleaner job.

    In the UK this seems to be called clause 805 or type 3.

    https://www.mainlandaggregates.co.uk/gravel-driveway-construction-guide
    https://www.mainlandaggregates.co.uk/mot-type-3-sub-base.html

    But is also referred to in this Irish document concerned with road construction.

    https://www.tiipublications.ie/library/CC-SPW-00800-04.pdf

    I'm sure a call to any of the large suppliers (e.g. Roadstone) would clarify.

    Leave 30mm so that if you don't like the finish you can add a layer of posh gravel.


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    #21
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,826 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Still waters wrote: »
    What might look shìt to you might be fine for someone else

    The op specifically asked about 804 as it was such a huge area to be covered that tarmacadam was working out too expensive.

    Some of the google experts on here would make you laugh the way they go so out of their way to point out that what someone wants is wrong because it's not up to their standards.

    They'd want to get a grip, not everyone has the budget to do what they would prefer and even if they had not everyone does jobs around the house to specifically increase its value.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #22
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    It's not an either-or thing. The base needs to be prepared with 804 or whatever regardless of what surface course is used.

    I'd guess you could probably finish 200sqm with 1 loose load of something like Ballylusk for about €500.

    Get the base right or else it'll break your heart. My gravel driveway is nothing but trouble.


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    #23
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,050 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    You are correct Rows Grower.

    I have had my fingers burned by 'outdoor' artists who can do any damn thing they want and take your money, so I am reluctant to get tarmac done by anyone other than a big firm. Roadstone, (who completely did a drive for me years ago, and it was excellent,) now want 10k + vat to just put down base and tarmac. I have to have the area prepared, levelled and drainage ready for them. This is the part of the job I don't want to have to organise because - who do you get? So they are out, and 10k is really beyond the absolute, total limit of what I could pay for the entire job. (I strongly suspect its a 'go away and don't annoy us with your piddling jobs' quote). And I am not prepared to gamble that kind of money on what could be a rubbish job. I already have one rubbish job to clean up.

    Anyway, tarmac is (simply in my opinion) not really appropriate to the kind of house I have. Gravel would look better and be more in keeping. It doesn't have to look 'shiny new', just decent and presentable. I am coming round to the idea of a finish coat of gravel. I have now been put in touch with a locally recommended guy to do the digger etc work, but I need to take ownership of exactly what I ask him to do, hence all the questions.


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    #24
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    For comparison I got a quote of 14k (inclusive I think) to re-do 330sqm of gravel driveway, from a local guy who was recommended.

    I wasn't entirely sure how deep he was going to go though.

    My current plan (when I get around to it) is to employ a man with a digger. I've seen what a skilled digger driver can do during landscaping of my garden, it was amazing.


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    #25
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,050 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Lumen, that is what I am coming round to.

    There is a top layer of something that looks like 804 but is not deep enough (just a skim) and walks everywhere, on top of the remains of the (round) pebbles. I think this will have to be disposed of and the level brought back to the sound sub level. Then 804 then a coat of angular gravel that will at least to some extent bed down. I don't mind having to do some maintenance and weedkilling, but I want it to be sound, which it is not at the moment.

    This thread has been extremely useful and helpful and has pointed me in directions of where to do research, thanks all.


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    #26
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    looksee wrote: »
    Lumen, that is what I am coming round to.

    There is a top layer of something that looks like 804 but is not deep enough (just a skim) and walks everywhere, on top of the remains of the (round) pebbles. I think this will have to be disposed of and the level brought back to the sound sub level. Then 804 then a coat of angular gravel that will at least to some extent bed down. I don't mind having to do some maintenance and weedkilling, but I want it to be sound, which it is not at the moment.

    This thread has been extremely useful and helpful and has pointed me in directions of where to do research, thanks all.

    I did 70 meters of a driveway last year in 804, i pass the house regularly and its settled in perfectly, we didnt even put the roller on it, i got a sheet of heavy reinforced mesh and pulled it after the digger, it levels it off as it pulls out over the gravel and after a week or 2 it all sets into place, and it looks good as well


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    #27
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,826 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Still waters wrote: »
    I did 70 meters of a driveway last year in 804, i pass the house regularly and its settled in perfectly, we didnt even put the roller on it, i got a sheet of heavy reinforced mesh and pulled it after the digger, it levels it off as it pulls out over the gravel and after a week or 2 it all sets into place, and it looks good as well

    Myself and the youngfella did the 70 meters of our lane over the lockdown.

    It had been done originally 12 years ago and apart from having to fill in the odd pothole lasted very well considering the weight of the some of the trucks delivering oil and coal plus the farmer who uses it occasionally to access his fields behind us so he can move his sheep to his other land across the road.

    There is a drain either side of it so subsidence over time is inevitable, it was only when the wife started driving a low to the ground Honda Civic that it became noticeable that it needed filling in.

    We got 20 ton dropped and did it with a wheelbarrow a shovel and a rake, drove over it then at the end of each day with the jeep, up and down about 10 times.

    It took ages because the heat was intense and he would take any opportunity to have a rest and a chat.

    It turned the youngfella from a wannabe Olympic Gamer into a "I can do that shur, not a bother" young man.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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